Bail request for Koh Tao suspects

[jdinasia]

Really. My records seem show otherwise.

Well ill offer you another go.

Do you believe the small 6 or 7 wounds to david's face and neck were caused by a hoe or a blunt object? Or will your lack of a forensic experience give you a reason not to commit to a simple opinion?

Mooner, on 13 Nov 2014 - 07:14, said:

jdinasia, on 09 Nov 2014 - 10:11, said:

Mooner, on 09 Nov 2014 - 10:03, said:

So are we all agreeing that another weapon was used on David?

May have been, apparently.

My lack of forensic experience will do what it always has. Have me refrain from speculation.

You scrolled back, and saw the questions I assume?

[Gweiloman]

My lack of forensic experience will do what it always has. Have me refrain from speculation.

You scrolled back, and saw the questions I assume?

Come to think of it, you, JTJ, AleG and a few others are actually perfectly correct in that you are all refraining from speculation as none of you have any expertise in any of the relevant areas nor are any of you privy to any of the RTP's evidence other than what has been reported. Like good citizens, you are following the official line from the RTP.

So kudos to that (refraining from any speculation). Shame the same can't be said about your critical thinking abilities though.

[ExPratt]

Not too far fetched a request, Some millionaires son got Bail a month or so ago to await his sentencing after being convicted of Murder, can't recall the name

[Mooner]

Really. My records seem show otherwise.

Well ill offer you another go.

Do you believe the small 6 or 7 wounds to david's face and neck were caused by a hoe or a blunt object? Or will your lack of a forensic experience give you a reason not to commit to a simple opinion?

Mooner, on 13 Nov 2014 - 07:14, said:

jdinasia, on 09 Nov 2014 - 10:11, said:

Mooner, on 09 Nov 2014 - 10:03, said:

So are we all agreeing that another weapon was used on David?

May have been, apparently.

My lack of forensic experience will do what it always has. Have me refrain from speculation.

You scrolled back, and saw the questions I assume?

Thought so. Usual sidestep answer.

[AleG]

AlecG post # 90

Ramblings about a gay conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real (gay) killer.

Nope, nothing homophobic about that.

Ramblings about a couple of lads from Myanmar in your conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real killers.

Nope, nothing to cover up the inept police farce force investigation or xenophobic biased posts.

You do understand that accusing me of being complicit in a murder is a serious accusation, don't you?

[englishoak]

AlecG post # 90

Ramblings about a gay conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real (gay) killer.

Nope, nothing homophobic about that.

Ramblings about a couple of lads from Myanmar in your conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real killers.

Nope, nothing to cover up the inept police farce force investigation or xenophobic biased posts.

You do understand that accusing me of being complicit in a murder is a serious accusation, don't you?

Thats got to be the post of the day

Get onto JD to represent you and give us all another laugh

[xylophone]

Posted again as my original post was removed. Quite how anyone can claim that this investigation was "bona fide" is beyond my comprehension......it is a complete and utter mess, full of holes, and screams out "set up".

There were nine wounds to David's head and upper torso, none of them wider than 1.5 inches or thereabouts (and very "clean") and it would be extremely hard, no impossible, to inflict wounds like this with a hoe such as the one used, and which was photographed.

Trying to wield a hoe in such a way to cause these injuries and most of them in close clusters would again be damn near impossible. It also has to be remembered that according to the statement by the Police, whilst one Burmese was in an altercation with David, the other was dragging Hannah away, and according to a police report, she was being beaten with the hoe whilst this was happening????

Stories do not match? Not surprising, and if you look at the following which I have itemised, and please take the time to do so, because they are mostly all from police statements, you will begin to see that this has been a debacle from the very start (backed up by Thailand’s own Dr Porntip) and I fear that the two Burmese guys are being set up and will have no chance against a corrupt society as exists here.

-Initially the police said they suspected Burmese migrants, before announcing they were hunting for Thai suspects, and then saying that two Burmese migrants had confessed.

The police also initially claimed that Witheridge was not raped before she died but now say she was raped by two men.

Despite saying the two men had confessed to the crime, a Thai police chief was also reported as saying that the two men had not made a "full confession".

(http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/03/thailand-beach-murders-suspects-killers-reconstruction_n_5926092.html)

-Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims. Both were said to have been found at the home of one of Burmese workers being questioned.( https://uk.news.yahoo.com/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-092939131.html#yQLKwGo)

-Colonel Prachum Ruangthong said their bodies were found naked on a rocky beach, with the woman reportedly wearing just a bikini top (the first pics posted on Facebook showed poor Hannah topless). Their clothes and a blood-stained hoe were located nearby. (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-david-miller-jersey-hannah-witheridge-named-back-pack-murder-victims-first-1465533)

-The newspaper reports state that a pair of Christopher Ware’s blood-stained pants were found in the possession (in the luggage) of David Miller, who, along with Hannah Witheridge, were killed Monday on Koh Tao.( www.dailymail.co.uk/.../British-man-questioned-two-British-tourists-death)

-Maj Gen Pornchai Suteerakune, Thailand’s chief police forensics officer, told reporters that in addition to the severe wounds found on Mr Miller’s head, the examination had found an injury on his hand, indicating that a struggle may have taken place, according to the Associated Press. (http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/thailand-beach-murders-both-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-suffered-severe-head-wounds-9738170.html)

-Tests were also being carried out on a blonde hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand, and on traces of semen that were also discovered, said the senior officer. He said believed the results of the tests would be announced within 24 hours. http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/thailand-beach-murders-both-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-suffered-severe-head-wounds-9738170.html)

-A British student found dead in Thailand was raped by two men while another watched before she was murdered, police have said. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-was-raped-by-two-men-before-being-killed-9765137.html)

-David Miller bravely fought for his life shortly before he was battered to death, it is now being reported. The 24-year-old is thought to have been involved in an intense struggle in the moments before he was killed. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-backpackers-thailand-murders-recap-4272933)

-Police are said to be looking for a British man, who apparently knew Mr Miller, and may have fled to Bangkok. (http://news.sky.com/story/1336526/backpacker-hunted-over-thailand-double-murder)

-DNA tests have failed to provide a match and police are still working to identify the brutal beach killer of two British tourists on Koh Tao, southern Thailand, early Monday. Police had initially detained and questioned three male migrant workers from Burma, but DNA tests and other evidence have ruled them out of the investigation. (https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-muder-burmese-migrants-cleared-after-dna-tests-burma-myanmar/44236)

-Investigators confirmed on Wednesday they are now questioning the roommate of the male victim for possible involvement in the savage murders which left the victims mutilated. (https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-muder-burmese-migrants-cleared-after-dna-tests-burma-myanmar/44236)

-Royal Thai Police adviser Jarumporn Suramanee said on Wednesday that the DNA of 12 people had been tested, including nine samples from Burmese migrant workers and one from Ware. The tests found none of the DNA matched that collected from semen found in the female victim’s body, he said. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/thailand-conducts-autopsies-slain-britons)

-The victim was also believed to have engaged in a struggle with his assailant. Witheridge, meanwhile, was dragged away from the first attack spot, said the same police officer (think about this; one small Burmese man was involved in incapacitating David whilst another small Burmese man was dragging Hannah away, according to another police report, supposedly hitting her with the same hoe which David was being beaten with?). (https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-muder-burmese-migrants-cleared-after-dna-tests-burma-myanmar/44236)

-Pol.Maj.Gen. Ponchai said the police have not yet identified the traces of DNA left on the victims’ bodies, such as a “hair” found in Ms. Witheridge’s left hand. (http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/thailand-beach-murders-both-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-suffered-severe-head-wounds-9738170.html)

-After saying they’d found Witheridge’s phone in one of the suspect’s rooms, a claim apparently discounted by photographic evidence, police then changed their story. They said it was Miller’s phone. (http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/08/universal-doubts-cloud-perfect-koh-tao-murder-investigation)

-Ultimately the motive ascribed by police and reportedly confessed by Win Zaw Htun appears oversimplistic and more consistent with myths about rape than decades of research. According to police, he saw the British couple having sex on the beach and convinced his friend to savagely murder them because he was “horny.”

The police statement fits a classic misunderstanding of rape as an act of sexual passion, not an act of premeditated violence, as experts say is most often the case.

“Rape is a premeditated act of violence, not a spontaneous act of passion,” according to the University of Minnesota. (http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/08/universal-doubts-cloud-perfect-koh-tao-murder-investigation) and (http://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html)

-Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, told reporters he believes the killer was a British travel companion who is currently in police custody, while DNA tests are underway to establish a link. (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761157-british-backpacker-arrested-for-suspected-murder-of-fellow-britons-at-koh-tao/page-7)

-Police said this afternoon autopsy results detailing the brutal manner of death of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, suggest it was a crime of passion and possibly revenge. Prachum speculated that the suspect, whom he identified as homosexual, murdered the pair in a fit of jealousy. (http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/09/17/police-blame-jealous-friend-david-and-hannah-murders-koh-tao)

-The Burmese Government today made an official request to Thailand to open a new investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on the holiday island of Koh Tao – after police point blank refused to answer allegations of torture. Lawyer Aung Myo Thant told the Democratic Voice of Burma that the Burmese Government had requested the Thai Ministry of Justice begin the controversial investigation again – particularly now that there were credible complaints that the two 21-year Burmese suspects had been forced to confess under torture. (http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2014/11/koh-tao-murders-burma-wants-new.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AndrewDrummond+%28Andrew+Drummond%29) and (http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14873-koh-tao-murder-suspects-allege-torture/14873-koh-tao-murder-suspects-allege-torture)

-Dr.Porntip has already been critical of the police investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, and the double rape of Hannah saying the investigation was destroyed on the first day.

She said the crime scene was interfered with. Potential suspects were allowed to trample over the site, and police failed to bring in an independent forensic pathologist.

It was vital and in the interests of justice that this work was done independently of police. But in this case police had retained control over all aspects of the case. (http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2014/10/help-us-send-killers-to-firing-squad.html) and (http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html)

-Thai police this morning DNA tested WOMEN to see if they were involved in the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/thailand-beach-murders-desperate-police-4288032)

-Migrant workers from nearby Burma have been used as scapegoats for crimes in Thailand. The rape and murder of Welsh backpacker Kirsty Jones in 2000 was blamed on a guide from Burma, who had been beaten by police in an attempt to coerce a confession. No charges have ever been brought over the 23-year-old's death. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/03/thailand-beach-murders-suspects-killers-reconstruction_n_5926092.html)

-A guitarist and two singers described as suspects were later traced by officers, interviewed and allowed to go. (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/thailand-beach-murders-desperate-police-4288032)

-So far allegations of torture have included beatings by the police and interpreter of the suspects, and allegations by a taxi driver who said he was beaten then offered the equivalent 700,000 Thai baht (US$21,657) to implicate members of a football team. (http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2014/10/help-us-send-killers-to-firing-squad.html

[AleG]

Ramblings about a couple of lads from Myanmar in your conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real killers.

Nope, nothing to cover up the inept police farce force investigation or xenophobic biased posts.

You do understand that accusing me of being complicit in a murder is a serious accusation, don't you?

Thats got to be the post of the day

Get onto JD to represent you and give us all another laugh

Please, do explain what do you find so funny about baseless accusations?

[boomerangutang]

May I just point out that a hoe is not a blunt object because it has an edge? I mean, you know what a hoe is, right?

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

Edited December 16, 2014 by boomerangutang

[AleG]

May I just point out that a hoe is not a blunt object because it has an edge? I mean, you know what a hoe is, right?

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

[xylophone]

May I just point out that a hoe is not a blunt object because it has an edge? I mean, you know what a hoe is, right?

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The stories are mixed depending upon whose report you read, however from all of the info gained so far, it would appear that a bottle and a hoe were used????

[AleG]

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The stories are mixed depending upon whose report you read, however from all of the info gained so far, it would appear that a bottle and a hoe were used????

Yes, stories are mixed up, that's why, in my opinion, people should refrain from speculation until the facts and evidence pertinent to the case are presented in an orderly, concise manner at the trial.

[boomerangutang]

May I just point out that a hoe is not a blunt object because it has an edge? I mean, you know what a hoe is, right?

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The only person in the investigation who mentioned a broken bottle was the deputized pancake seller. No bottle or broken glass was found at or near the site. It's been pointed out, in posts from weeks ago, that a bottle might inflict a wound once, but it would probably continue breaking. The consensus, among social media (some of whom may be forensic experts) is a sharp blade or blade-like weapon was used on David, very likely held in the fist or on a weapon-like ring. Such rings are sold everywhere backpackers go. I was in Kao San road recently, and there were several tables selling hundreds of weapon rings. Have you seen the photo of the sharks tooth ring worn by the 'Stingray Man' - who is a big strong fellow who works as a bouncer for AC bar and is buddies with Mon and Nomsod? He's also seen in a photo, partying inches from Hannah - close enough that, if he turned his face, he could kiss her on the cheek. That's the sort of people Thai cops should be looking closely at for prime suspects. They're not, and the reasons are obvious.

[xylophone]

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The stories are mixed depending upon whose report you read, however from all of the info gained so far, it would appear that a bottle and a hoe were used????

Yes, stories are mixed up, that's why, in my opinion, people should refrain from speculation until the facts and evidence pertinent to the case are presented in an orderly, concise manner at the trial.

The problem being that the conflicting evidence/statements have all been made at one time or another by the RTP, which really does point to total incompetence IMO.

[siampolee]

AlecG post # 98.

Please, do explain what do you find so funny about baseless accusations?

Come along AlecG you are the expert at baseless accusations.

Nowhere did I accuse you of being complicit in or with the deed of murder.

However your posting style does give rise to negative thoughts concerning that which you publish in defense of the police farce force flawed investigation.

[AleG]

May I just point out that a hoe is not a blunt object because it has an edge? I mean, you know what a hoe is, right?

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The only person in the investigation who mentioned a broken bottle was the deputized pancake seller. No bottle or broken glass was found at or near the site. It's been pointed out, in posts from weeks ago, that a bottle might inflict a wound once, but it would probably continue breaking. The consensus, among social media (some of whom may be forensic experts) is a sharp blade or blade-like weapon was used on David, very likely held in the fist or on a weapon-like ring. Such rings are sold everywhere backpackers go. I was in Kao San road recently, and there were several tables selling hundreds of weapon rings. Have you seen the photo of the sharks tooth ring worn by the 'Stingray Man' - who is a big strong fellow who works as a bouncer for AC bar and is buddies with Mon and Nomsod? He's also seen in a photo, partying inches from Hannah - close enough that, if he turned his face, he could kiss her on the cheek. That's the sort of people Thai cops should be looking closely at for prime suspects. They're not, and the reasons are obvious.

"The consensus, among social media..." that would be the consensus among people that have no access to the evidence, witnesses or the accused and only rely on, at best, third hand accounts, conflicting press releases and inbred speculation woven together in a fabric of faulty logic.

[AleG]

AlecG post # 98.

Please, do explain what do you find so funny about baseless accusations?

Come along AlecG you are the expert at baseless accusations.

Nowhere did I accuse you of being complicit in or with the deed of murder.

However your posting style does give rise to negative thoughts concerning that which you publish in defense of the police farce force flawed investigation.

"Nowhere did I accuse you of being complicit in or with the deed of murder."

Of course you did:

"in your conspiracy to hide the truth and protect the real killers."

But you are too much of a coward to admit it.

[siampolee]

AlecG you really are a sad person who cannot or will not see the truth of the matter and the flaws in the whole case.

The comments you receive are the results of your posts nothing more nothing less.

Remember the song ''Coward of the County?

Be careful just how you label people.

[greenchair]

There the defense go again (guardian )find the link yourself. Wah wah wah. The prosecution won't give up the evidence. How hard can it be.

1.Get dna from b2 parents.

2.send to British coroner.

3.ask if any match.

4.if match.make the best story you can and fight accordingly.

5. Oh no match,easy case they are innocent.

It doesn't sound that complicated to me.

Find your own defence evidence.

3 saboteurs. Do not throw away my interesting comment.

[AleG]

AlecG you really are a sad person who cannot or will not see the truth of the matter and the flaws in the whole case.

The comments you receive are the results of your posts nothing more nothing less.

Remember the song ''Coward of the County?

Be careful just how you label people.

The truth of the matter is that you, and people like you are making ridiculous statements; like your idiotic scenario of a gay conspiracy to hide the truth or that I am complicit in a cover up of the murders.

I am not defending the investigation, I'm pointing out that people are making wild, baseless accusations left, right and center.

[jdinasia]

Not too far fetched a request, Some millionaires son got Bail a month or so ago to await his sentencing after being convicted of Murder, can't recall the name

Oh? Not that I am aware of.

[jdinasia]

AlecG you really are a sad person who cannot or will not see the truth of the matter and the flaws in the whole case.

The comments you receive are the results of your posts nothing more nothing less.

Remember the song ''Coward of the County?

Be careful just how you label people.

You got caught out accusing him of complicity after the fact. Own it, apologize, move on.

[fritzzz25]

AlecG you really are a sad person who cannot or will not see the truth of the matter and the flaws in the whole case.

The comments you receive are the results of your posts nothing more nothing less.

Remember the song ''Coward of the County?

Be careful just how you label people.

The truth of the matter is that you, and people like you are making ridiculous statements; like your idiotic scenario of a gay conspiracy to hide the truth or that I am complicit in a cover up of the murders.

I am not defending the investigation, I'm pointing out that people are making wild, baseless accusations left, right and center.

You just defended the "confession" a few posts above. To prove a confession in courts, the police must show that there were no inducements, threats, torture. If this was indeed a voluntary confession, and the fact that they were using "Mr Pancake" as a translator, there damn well better be a video of this entire interrogation. Without one, there is easily a doubt cast that they were tortured or forced to confess. The "perfect case" the RTP has more holes in it than all the cheese in Switzerland.

[xylophone]

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The only person in the investigation who mentioned a broken bottle was the deputized pancake seller. No bottle or broken glass was found at or near the site. It's been pointed out, in posts from weeks ago, that a bottle might inflict a wound once, but it would probably continue breaking. The consensus, among social media (some of whom may be forensic experts) is a sharp blade or blade-like weapon was used on David, very likely held in the fist or on a weapon-like ring. Such rings are sold everywhere backpackers go. I was in Kao San road recently, and there were several tables selling hundreds of weapon rings. Have you seen the photo of the sharks tooth ring worn by the 'Stingray Man' - who is a big strong fellow who works as a bouncer for AC bar and is buddies with Mon and Nomsod? He's also seen in a photo, partying inches from Hannah - close enough that, if he turned his face, he could kiss her on the cheek. That's the sort of people Thai cops should be looking closely at for prime suspects. They're not, and the reasons are obvious.

"The consensus, among social media..." that would be the consensus among people that have no access to the evidence, witnesses or the accused and only rely on, at best, third hand accounts, conflicting press releases and inbred speculation woven together in a fabric of faulty logic.

As I posted earlier.........

"The problem being that the conflicting evidence/statements have all been made at one time or another by the RTP, which really does point to total incompetence IMO".

[xylophone]

There the defense go again (guardian )find the link yourself. Wah wah wah. The prosecution won't give up the evidence. How hard can it be.

1.Get dna from b2 parents.

2.send to British coroner.

3.ask if any match.

4.if match.make the best story you can and fight accordingly.

5. Oh no match,easy case they are innocent.

It doesn't sound that complicated to me.

Find your own defence evidence.

3 saboteurs. Do not throw away my interesting comment.

I read somewhere on Thaivisa that (according to the poster anyway) the defence have a right to view the prosecution's case/evidence against them?

Anyone comment on that please?

[jdinasia]

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims.

The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The only person in the investigation who mentioned a broken bottle was the deputized pancake seller. No bottle or broken glass was found at or near the site. It's been pointed out, in posts from weeks ago, that a bottle might inflict a wound once, but it would probably continue breaking. The consensus, among social media (some of whom may be forensic experts) is a sharp blade or blade-like weapon was used on David, very likely held in the fist or on a weapon-like ring. Such rings are sold everywhere backpackers go. I was in Kao San road recently, and there were several tables selling hundreds of weapon rings. Have you seen the photo of the sharks tooth ring worn by the 'Stingray Man' - who is a big strong fellow who works as a bouncer for AC bar and is buddies with Mon and Nomsod? He's also seen in a photo, partying inches from Hannah - close enough that, if he turned his face, he could kiss her on the cheek. That's the sort of people Thai cops should be looking closely at for prime suspects. They're not, and the reasons are obvious.

"The consensus, among social media..." that would be the consensus among people that have no access to the evidence, witnesses or the accused and only rely on, at best, third hand accounts, conflicting press releases and inbred speculation woven together in a fabric of faulty logic.

As I posted earlier.........

"The problem being that the conflicting evidence/statements have all been made at one time or another by the RTP, which really does point to total incompetence IMO".

You are entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make the opinion valid.

The evidence submitted to the court and not botched public statements will be weighed by the judges.

A well run defense could potentially sandbag the prosecution in a case like this one. We will know more when the trial takes place. The initial evidentiary hearing on the 26th will give some clues as to how this will play out.

I have no idea how much will be revealed to the public after that hearing, but if they list both the evidence and witnesses for both sides publicly, those that speculate will have something real to work with.

[AleG]

"The consensus, among social media..." that would be the consensus among people that have no access to the evidence, witnesses or the accused and only rely on, at best, third hand accounts, conflicting press releases and inbred speculation woven together in a fabric of faulty logic.

As I posted earlier.........

"The problem being that the conflicting evidence/statements have all been made at one time or another by the RTP, which really does point to total incompetence IMO".

That is one thing, but the deluge of conspiracies and accusations have consequences, it's not just harmless speculation.

Ppeople are being defamed, for one; there have also been calls for vigilante justice for another and also calls to boycott Koh Tao. Last but not least the families of the victims have unequivocally stated that such speculation has been harmful to them.

Now, in view of the conflicting information, the misinformation, the lack of information and the outright lies surrounding the case what is one to do? I, for one, think the ethical stance is to see what evidence is presented at the trial and how it holds up to scrutiny.

[greenchair]

There the defense go again (guardian )find the link yourself. Wah wah wah. The prosecution won't give up the evidence. How hard can it be.

1.Get dna from b2 parents.

2.send to British coroner.

3.ask if any match.

4.if match.make the best story you can and fight accordingly.

5. Oh no match,easy case they are innocent.

It doesn't sound that complicated to me.

Find your own defence evidence.

3 saboteurs. Do not throw away my interesting comment.

I read somewhere on Thaivisa that (according to the poster anyway) the defence have a right to view the prosecution's case/evidence against them?

Anyone comment on that please?

I'm sorry to go on about the same topic. But at this stage they should be out hunting down positive evidence to show innocence. Such as video showing going back to the room. A witness who saw them come out of room in morning. The witness can be called against their will. It is illegal to lie in court. The defense must focus on themselves.and defend prosecution later. There is no reason why they cannot write to the coroner. In the gardian(link csi)the cops more or less said get in touch with the coroner.

[xylophone]

You are entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make the opinion valid.

The evidence submitted to the court and not botched public statements will be weighed by the judges.

A well run defense could potentially sandbag the prosecution in a case like this one. We will know more when the trial takes place. The initial evidentiary hearing on the 26th will give some clues as to how this will play out.

I have no idea how much will be revealed to the public after that hearing, but if they list both the evidence and witnesses for both sides publicly, those that speculate will have something real to work with.

"The problem being that the conflicting evidence/statements have all been made at one time or another by the RTP, which really does point to total incompetence IMO".

Quote jdinasia. "You are entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make the opinion valid".

The thing you seem to conveniently miss, and I think everyone knows why, is that in your avatar you state, "Try being informed instead of just opinionated", YET my post was informed because these very statements have been made by the RTP, and if you think that these statements, many and varied, U-turns and backflips are indicative of competence, then you have formed an opinion which is not informed in any way whatsoever.

You have been, "Hoist by your own petard" as they say.

Edited December 16, 2014 by xylophone

[boomerangutang]

(responding to AleG claiming a hoe is a sharp object because it has an edge)

Looking at the photo of the hoe, with its rounded edges and pieces of old cement still stuck to it, ...it looks just like dozens of old used/uncleaned hoes I've seen all over Thailand. Any objective person could plainly tell the hoe didn't cause the shallow blade-like injuries to David. Plus, the RTP claimed, early on, that no traces of David's blood were found on any part of the hoe. It will be interesting to see what the Brit inquest claims. The back of a machete is an edge also, but it's blunt, ....as blunt as an old hoe. A sidewalk has an edge also, ...that doesn't mean it's sharp.

A truly objective person would point out that, according to the confession of the accused, they used a bottle to attack David.

The only person in the investigation who mentioned a broken bottle was the deputized pancake seller. No bottle or broken glass was found at or near the site. It's been pointed out, in posts from weeks ago, that a bottle might inflict a wound once, but it would probably continue breaking. The consensus, among social media (some of whom may be forensic experts) is a sharp blade or blade-like weapon was used on David, very likely held in the fist or on a weapon-like ring. Such rings are sold everywhere backpackers go. I was in Kao San road recently, and there were several tables selling hundreds of weapon rings. Have you seen the photo of the sharks tooth ring worn by the 'Stingray Man' - who is a big strong fellow who works as a bouncer for AC bar and is buddies with Mon and Nomsod? He's also seen in a photo, partying inches from Hannah - close enough that, if he turned his face, he could kiss her on the cheek. That's the sort of people Thai cops should be looking closely at for prime suspects. They're not, and the reasons are obvious.

"The consensus, among social media..." that would be the consensus among people that have no access to the evidence, witnesses or the accused and only rely on, at best, third hand accounts, conflicting press releases and inbred speculation woven together in a fabric of faulty logic.

'Social media' is synonymous with 'the general public' which includes all posters herein, including JTJ, AleG and jdinasia and Balo. With internet blogs, tens of thousands of people can read and comment. Many of those people can think for themselves, and some are experts in their fields, which may include detectives, forensic experts, lawyers, nuclear physicists, and lab techs. AleG and jdinasia, in particular are saying the general public are stupid, and if any put forth any ideas about the crime, they are automatically 'conspiracy theorists.' AleG claims the general public have heard no evidence and no claims by witnesses - as if nothing has been aired about this case in the past 12 weeks. Go ahead, AleG and jdinasia - keep thinking the general public are a bunch of dummies, as that's about the only way you can keep grasping on to your fantasy that the Headman's people had nothing to do with the crime.