So martial law cannot be lifted because "it is a tool for the PM to maintain order" like he couldn't lift it with a proviso that it could be re-instated if necessary? Would that have shown goodwill to the people?

So the PM doesn't trust the people he is supposed to be representing?

We rich people know what we are doing you poor people do what you are told! (Or else)

How very sad.

And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand because they happened to make disparaging remarks about the way things are going?

Elections delayed.

We wonder what is next.

And so it begins............

" We rich people know what we are doing you poor people do what you are told! (Or else)"

This underlying message was repeated over and over again in Suthep’s numerous speeches if anyone had bothered to listen to them at the time. But it somehow seemed to have escaped those on here who were solely preoccupied with unseating the wicked witch of the North

I described the present, and you didn't recognize it. I also suggested one of many sources where you could educate yourself on the difference between the 2006 and 2014 coup. As I noted before, you don't read much, do you?

From everything I know about 2006, it was no different to now.

How do you think it was different?

Still not reading, are you? Or are you in denial of reality? As I noted before, now we have:

Martial law with no end in sight, much more censorship and restrictions on free speech and assembly, detentions without charge or any rights, no sense of urgency in writing the new constitution or scheduling elections, etc.

This wasn't the case after the 2006 coup.

I think you're the one that needs to read more. In 2006 there were detentions, censorship, and the same issues with writing a new constitution.

In 2006 there were only a handful of detentions of high-ranking people and censorship was not close to the scale of this coup. Peaceful protests were not welcome but generally tolerated. Martial law was lifted for most of Thailand four months after the coup, and I don't recall any kind of curfew. Because of the less aggressive suppression of activities the economy did not suffer nearly as much. There were issues with writing the constitution, but the military was trying to get it written and deliver on promised elections in order to keep the peace The new constitution was "approved" in a stacked referendum in August 2007, less than a year after the coup, and a general election was held in December 2007, about 15 months after the election.

Currently martial law is in place nation-wide six months after the coup with no end in sight. No public opposition to the coup is tolerated. They're still fiddling around with the process for writing a new constitution, there is no promised election date and the speculated date about the next election keeps slipping into the future. Most important of all, the situation with the topic that must not be discussed was very different in 2006.

Do you really need to have this spelled out for you? If so, try to inform yourself on the subject before your next post.

So martial law cannot be lifted because "it is a tool for the PM to maintain order" like he couldn't lift it with a proviso that it could be re-instated if necessary? Would that have shown goodwill to the people?

So the PM doesn't trust the people he is supposed to be representing?

We rich people know what we are doing you poor people do what you are told! (Or else)

How very sad.

And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand because they happened to make disparaging remarks about the way things are going?

Elections delayed.

We wonder what is next.

And so it begins............

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

Sad, my mother in law was counting on that PTP 500 baht vote buy to help her buy her new motorsai...

She's lucky it was only 300 in the village I live ?

Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'.

But how effective is it for the masses in the West?

How much wealth does it take to be elected in the US?

The UK is run by a clique from Eton-top private school for the very wealthy.

Democracy for much of Europe means governance by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

How many 'democratic' leaders deliver on the manifesto that got them elected? I cant think of any.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Hard to see how elections here can do other than oxygenate redshirt/yellowshirt strife.

A couple of years of the status quo may be the 'least worst' solution here, but fewer temper tantrums and more statesmanship in dealing with a little 'free speech' would help.....

Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'.

But how effective is it for the masses in the West?

How much wealth does it take to be elected in the US?

The UK is run by a clique from Eton-top private school for the very wealthy.

Democracy for much of Europe means governance by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

How many 'democratic' leaders deliver on the manifesto that got them elected? I cant think of any.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Hard to see how elections here can do other than oxygenate redshirt/yellowshirt strife.

A couple of years of the status quo may be the 'least worst' solution here, but fewer temper tantrums and more statesmanship in dealing with a little 'free speech' would help.....

"Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'."

No, i think many people believe it's the least bad choice. Do you have a better alternative?

Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'.

But how effective is it for the masses in the West?

How much wealth does it take to be elected in the US?

The UK is run by a clique from Eton-top private school for the very wealthy.

Democracy for much of Europe means governance by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

How many 'democratic' leaders deliver on the manifesto that got them elected? I cant think of any.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Hard to see how elections here can do other than oxygenate redshirt/yellowshirt strife.

A couple of years of the status quo may be the 'least worst' solution here, but fewer temper tantrums and more statesmanship in dealing with a little 'free speech' would help.....

Firstly is not your country and the majority of those whose it country it is were quite happy with their choice until it was stolen from them.

Secondly, “ a couple of years of the status quo “ may find Thailand in a pretty awful financial state.

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

It is blocked for me.

And it is widely confirmed in the media also:

Bangkok post: <<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed: 26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.>>>>

Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/27/367047859/thailand-blocks-access-to-damaging-human-rights-report

Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'.

But how effective is it for the masses in the West?

How much wealth does it take to be elected in the US?

The UK is run by a clique from Eton-top private school for the very wealthy.

Democracy for much of Europe means governance by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

How many 'democratic' leaders deliver on the manifesto that got them elected? I cant think of any.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Hard to see how elections here can do other than oxygenate redshirt/yellowshirt strife.

A couple of years of the status quo may be the 'least worst' solution here, but fewer temper tantrums and more statesmanship in dealing with a little 'free speech' would help.....

That's the same message that dictators have been fouling the masses with for years. I don't believe it. Fair elections that are transparent and the losers just have to 'bite the bullet' and except the outcome. Then the losing parties have to come up with some populist ways of winning the voters for next time. That's how it should work. Whether 'democratic leaders' deliver on the outcomes is irrelevant. It is about having a choice. If they don't deliver, next time vote them out. It is that simple.

That's the same message that dictators have been fouling the masses with for years. I don't believe it. Fair elections that are transparent and the losers just have to 'bite the bullet' and except the outcome. Then the losing parties have to come up with some populist ways of winning the voters for next time. That's how it should work. Whether 'democratic leaders' deliver on the outcomes is irrelevant. It is about having a choice. If they don't deliver, next time vote them out. It is that simple.

But the poor Yellows stated some years back that they did not feel safe campaigning in Issan or Northern Thailand. That statement alone speaks volumes as to some Thais' sense of entitlement. It is alarming that they would actually say something so timid.

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Hypocritism about Democracy and elections is thriving on this forum.

Remember what was happening before this administration and try to keep your mouths shut.

Ideals and big words are only good for the armchair discussions.

Look at the reality, notice the effort of this government to clean Thailand from the scum, and corruption.

Be grateful to them and be patient, elections and the old <deleted> will come back when they feel the country is read

It's not hypocritism about democracy.

It's about the hypocritism of an unelected military cabel that holds absolute power over the nation for its own design of civilian rule.

It's about the hypocritism of the cabel to claim popular support from the population through questionable surveys.

It's about the hypocritism of the cabel to solicit public opinion for reform while maintaining strict martial law and suppression of a free press.

It's about the hypocritism of the cabel to pretend it has established a representative legislature, reform and constitutional groups.

And lastly, it's about hypocritism of the cabel to suppress democracy while claiming to follow a road map back to democracy.

Hypocritism is well earned and equal honesty should apply.

A post containing veiled references to HM the King has been removed.

Any discussion of the Monarchy or members of the royal family in a political context will result in a ban. This includes vague comments that could be construed as referring to the Monarchy.

Democracy seems to be portrayed by many as the 'Holy Grail'.

But how effective is it for the masses in the West?

2 questions

1) Name me a single military regime in history that has presided over a modern, successful and prosperous state?

2) For all its faults, would you seriously argue "the masses" in the West don`t enjoy an infinetley higher standard of living, hence why people from developing countries like Thailand would give an arm to emigrate there?

Expect this to be pushed back even further well into 2017 and possibly beyond.

Now with the Junta also blocking Human Rights Watch website to boot. It is becoming more and more obvious that this is not about the Thai people and the country. This is all about the people in charge.

This is a power trip going haywire, and expect reactions from the west very soon.

The Thai people may put up with this behaviour, but the west certainly won't and this Junta will find out eventually that it is going to hurt.

LOL. What the heck is the "west" gonna' do about it? Yeah, maybe Obama'll be drawing one of his oh-so-scary red lines. ROFL. And for that matter, what SHOULD they have to say about it? This is a thai issue for thais to settle among themselves. The rest of the world has other things to worry about anyway.

Not surprised at all. My guess it will be 2017/2018

--------------------------

Good.

maybe by then the Thai voters will realize that elections are not a popularity test, where they vote for their "favorites" as though they were movie stars.

But instead the elections should be a vote where they are hiring "servants" who they hire to take care of their nation-house as carefully as they hire workers...... who, if they do not do the job they are hired for, should be fired for not doing the job they were hired for.

Politicians are not "movie stars" who you vote for because you "like" them, they are hired servants.

But, I doubt that idea will ever get through to the Thai electorate.

Until it does, maybe after 10 years or so, Thailand does not really need "popularity contest elections".

You vote for the policies that will best suit your needs and that fit into your ideology.

At the same time if you know full well your party who promises the world to obtain your vote but will never secure enough votes due to ideology and demographics you tend to think second best.

How do you think all the Liberals in the UK felt for hundred of years, some great policies but were never strong enough to compete with the Tories or with new Labour? it took a coalition to give them any sort of day in implementing some of their policies.

The problem with Thaialnd is there's too many parties and demographically the PTP and it's precious incarnations seemed to hold the upper hands.

What the Dems have to do is to convince the die hard reds to switch their ideology and secure their vote.... Good luck with that Kuhn Abhisit !!

The dems also have to convince all the other parties to side with them to defeat anything the reds can muster in any future elections.

Having the Junta in power for the next few years and maintaining Martial Law is the inhibitor that prevents the dems and any other political party from canvassing to start actually swaying votes.

If I was to be a betting man, which is illegal here, I'd sayThere will be no elections until after a certain date ?

The yellows have blown their chances for legitimate government forever. A large proportion of the electorate will never forgive them. Their only way to government is to get the army to get them in.

2016 becomes 2017 and 2018 and repeat until they believe they would get a result that is acceptable to them or that the result doesn't really matter in the end.

Not a valid defence jusylt observing something both were stupid.

Other part is not opinion but truth please explain it otherwise. It was found they were redshirts, police did not catch them goverment did not want them caught. Army found them not the police. Quite logical my conclusions.

The discussion was about yellow shirts bringing kids to protests and putting them in danger. What red shirts did a few years ago is not the subject and has nothing to do with this discussion. So why you add that observation here if it is not an attempt to defend those actions? Was it just something that popped into your mind and you really wanted to share? Or are you trying to discredit the "red shirts" in an attempt to justify the actions of the "yellow shirts"?

Your reasoning, which is so logical in your view, shows a gap:

1. they were redshirts: correct (they did support the "red" government)

2. police did not catch them: correct (they were caught by the army)

3. government did not want them caught: incorrect. This is an assumption you make and this is exactly the point where your "truth" turns into an opinion. If you can support the statement that the government did not want them caught then please come forward because the whole "logic" of your argument is based on this little detail.

And to tell otherwise: you say "the government" was supporting them and hiding them, not just a member of the government or someone associated with the government, but you implicate the complete government as if it was their (un-) official policy. If that was done by "the government" then you should bring your evidence to the local courts in Thailand, and if they refuse to pick it up to the international criminal court in The Hague. Till then it sounds more like a theory you support instead of the truth.

I belt everyone remembers Charlem threatening the protesters to go home as they would get hurt by a third party. Those were those red terrorist that killed kids and such. Big applauding on stage when the news about the attack came in on a redshirt even with high government officials there.

Sounds a lot like im right. But your right i cant prove it but who knows the army might. Such nice people those redshirs applauding and cheering about the attack. Only Tida saw the PR disaster and reacted. Good thing thos was all filmed so its a fact. So my opinion is not that strange.

Threatening or warning, that is a discussion that will be hard to have as it all depends on translations and interpretations.

And your opinion is not that strange at all. At least we now agree that it is an opinion and not a fact as you stated earlier.

Hypocritism about Democracy and elections is thriving on this forum.

Remember what was happening before this administration and try to keep your mouths shut.

Ideals and big words are only good for the armchair discussions.

Look at the reality, notice the effort of this government to clean Thailand from the scum, and corruption.

Be grateful to them and be patient, elections and the old <deleted> will come back when they feel the country is ready.

At the risk of yet another 'suspension'. B0ll0x!

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

2016 becomes 2017 and 2018 and repeat until they believe they would get a result that is acceptable to them or that the result doesn't really matter in the end.

'Them' being the whole d4mn lot of them. However, circumstances are in process.

D.G.A.S.

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

It is blocked for me.

And it is widely confirmed in the media also:

Bangkok post: <<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed: 26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.>>>>

Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/27/367047859/thailand-blocks-access-to-damaging-human-rights-report

Well that's a mystery ! I just googled, yet again, human rights watch, and their entry-page loaded without problem.

And so did their page on thailand, in the 'Asia' section.

But the poor Yellows stated some years back that they did not feel safe campaigning in Issan or Northern Thailand. That statement alone speaks volumes as to some Thais' sense of entitlement. It is alarming that they would actually say something so timid.

Mostly you're very wrong about the 'poor yellows'. Has as been oft mentioned here, and from personal experience, 'the.poor.yellows. I've met are poor'. But they're not F#ckwits, same as a disproportionate amount of 'reds'. Duh

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

It is blocked for me.

And it is widely confirmed in the media also:

Bangkok post: <<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed: 26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.>>>>

Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/27/367047859/thailand-blocks-access-to-damaging-human-rights-report

Well that's a mystery ! I just googled, yet again, human rights watch, and their entry-page loaded without problem.

And so did their page on thailand, in the 'Asia' section.

One more source indicating that the government is trying to block it:

"Prayut then went on to explain why the Human Rights Watch website had been blocked, saying that the decision was up to the Information and Communications Technology Department, whose duty it is to enforce certain rules and regulations." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780222-stop-finding-fault-prayut-says/

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

It is blocked for me.

And it is widely confirmed in the media also:

Bangkok post: <<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed: 26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.>>>>

Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/27/367047859/thailand-blocks-access-to-damaging-human-rights-report

Well that's a mystery ! I just googled, yet again, human rights watch, and their entry-page loaded without problem.

And so did their page on thailand, in the 'Asia' section.

One more source indicating that the government is trying to block it:

"Prayut then went on to explain why the Human Rights Watch website had been blocked, saying that the decision was up to the Information and Communications Technology Department, whose duty it is to enforce certain rules and regulations." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780222-stop-finding-fault-prayut-says/

Not successfully then as I just browsed it using 3bb and Dtac 3g!

"And now the Human Rights Watch page has been blocked in Thailand"

Except that, as Whybother said a few posts back, it's not blocked at all, I just loaded it without any difficulty.

According to the Bangkok Post the HRW webpage was blocked. Perhaps the block has been lifted, more likely it is a leaky block. The Thai government has never been very good at censoring the internet, but they keep trying.

It is blocked for me.

And it is widely confirmed in the media also:

Bangkok post: <<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed: 26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.>>>>

Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/27/367047859/thailand-blocks-access-to-damaging-human-rights-report

Well that's a mystery ! I just googled, yet again, human rights watch, and their entry-page loaded without problem.

And so did their page on thailand, in the 'Asia' section.

One more source indicating that the government is trying to block it:

"Prayut then went on to explain why the Human Rights Watch website had been blocked, saying that the decision was up to the Information and Communications Technology Department, whose duty it is to enforce certain rules and regulations." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780222-stop-finding-fault-prayut-says/

Not successfully then as I just browsed it using 3bb and Dtac 3g!

The point here is that the government is attempting to block a Human Rights Watch webpage and report that criticizes it. The fact that they are not good at it is simply a demonstration of incompetence.

The point here is that the government is attempting to block a Human Rights Watch webpage and report that criticizes it. The fact that they are not good at it is simply a demonstration of incompetence.

Isn't it the ISPs that do the blocking?

This what I love about TV. A bunch of disgruntled old men spending their remaining days commenting ad nauseum on nearly every single post. In a country where they can't own property, land or the majority of a business. Where they have absolutely zero influence in any market. economy or government decisions. In a country where they will (except for maybe 2%, if I am being generous) actually achieve residency, little lone citizenship and there by default have no right to vote or make any real change in politics, policy or government in this country and yet every day want to harp on incessantly about red or yellow or Thaksin or Junta and who was better or worse like anything any of these half baked experts could do would change the situation. Better yet, these all knowing pundits carry on like they have some pull or influence or some entitled belief that they know better than anyone else..... please forget the politics. Your input means nothing and never will just go back to talking about who has the cheapest groceries Big C or Makro

just go back to talking about who has the cheapest groceries Big C or Makro

or in your case writing 2000 word appraisals on what the best dog food in Thailand is and if that is the only other option I think I will stick to Thai politics.

Woof, woof!