Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[jacksam]

Geez , what's the fuss he abused the system and finally was caught out. Get another visa and look for another way of getting around things.

[Markphuket]

The only time when even Thais don't know how to write something and variations in spelling can occur are for foreign transliterations or transcriptions.

That's not true. Indic loanwords can present huge doubts. There are several different spellings of the common nickname 'Nit', depending on what the person's official name is. Live syllables with falling tones immediately offer two possibilities, and in many cases the current spelling is, etymologically speaking, wrong.

For a foreigner, the immediate problem is that not knowing the tone, or not knowing the basic tone rules, makes spelling guesswork. However, the relevant issue is then how Immigration would interpret the results of a spelling test. Would perfect spelling indicate that someone wasn't actually studying to improve their Thai?

Totally agree as also for every rule I've been learning there are equal amount of exceptions when it comes to the thai language.

And per my previous post agree with you again, i have people in my class who are doing thai to improve their level of thai language even thou they have lived here for many years previous.

[jacksam]

Msrkphuket....the OP stated at beginning the HE DID NOT ATTEND CLASSES.

[Markphuket]

Msrkphuket....the OP stated at beginning the HE DID NOT ATTEND CLASSES.

STOP TROLLING read my post where i stated how could the immigration officer know that?

[wooloomooloo]

Msrkphuket....the OP stated at beginning the HE DID NOT ATTEND CLASSES.

STOP TROLLING read my post where i stated how could the immigration officer know that?

jacksam is hardly trolling. The OP, by his own admission, was playing the game and got caught out.

The OP has been noble to the cause and taken it on the chin. Give it up.

[Markphuket]

Msrkphuket....the OP stated at beginning the HE DID NOT ATTEND CLASSES.

STOP TROLLING read my post where i stated how could the immigration officer know that?

jacksam is hardly trolling. The OP, by his own admission, was playing the game and got caught out.

The OP has been noble to the cause and taken it on the chin. Give it up.

He is, because if he simply read my previous post, i was asking the question how could an immigration be aware of the fact he wasn't attending lessons, the OP would not have stated this to the immigration at the time of arrival. Also as well documented through this thread school send attendance records that dont match attendance.... so the likely hood is the immigration would have had no knowledge of him not attending classes........ so stand by my comment

[brianp0803]

Geez , what's the fuss he abused the system and finally was caught out. Get another visa and look for another way of getting around things.

summary:

He mentioned the language school he was attending

He said he didn't attend classes since he had been previously been on a marriage visa for 8 years and spoke Thai already.

He said he had a valid reentry permit and I assume successfully getting 90 day extension. How?

On other threads he is asking about an ED-visa for golf.

He said he earns money from his business in Hong Kong.

Not sure how often he traveled there while on Ed Visa.

His failure of the test had nothing to do with the difficulty of the Thai language. He was not attending classes.

Since he already spoke Thai, 7-8 months on Ed visa, using books written entirely in Thai he would gain basic reading ability. When you have enough vocabulary then reading is not difficult.

His treatment seems harsh.

He shouldn't have been able to get his extensions while in Thailand and would be able to find alternatives.

If he modified his attendence report from the school to get his extension then he know what he was doing.

[balo]

I will recommmend any non native speaker of English if they want to go the ED route to try to learn another language than Thai, many schools offer English, Russian or Japanese . Also you can study Muay Thai or attend cooking classes.

Then immigration can try to "test" your skills if they dare.

[jacksam]

Msrkphuket....the OP stated at beginning the HE DID NOT ATTEND CLASSES.

STOP TROLLING read my post where i stated how could the immigration officer know that?

Possibly because of his passport with all his entry/exits for his business in HK. etc etc

[bkkcanuck8]

I will recommmend any non native speaker of English if they want to go the ED route to try to learn another language than Thai, many schools offer English, Russian or Japanese . Also you can study Muay Thai or attend cooking classes.

Then immigration can try to "test" your skills if they dare.

I am sure some of the immigration officers would have fun kicking your butt while "testing" your muay thai skills

[brianp0803]

I will recommmend any non native speaker of English if they want to go the ED route to try to learn another language than Thai, many schools offer English, Russian or Japanese . Also you can study Muay Thai or attend cooking classes.

Then immigration can try to "test" your skills if they dare.

Are you promoting was to abuse the Ed visa?

If they start giving major fines to schools not reporting non-attending students and require minimum 2 hours a day 5 days week then this is an option.

If schools are following the requirements from immigration to accurately report attendance then there would be no need for them to give any tests.

The schools licensed by MOE are currently trusted to supply accurate attendance.

[darkian]

Confused as to why people keep saying Johnny should've got 'the proper visa' when this was clearly his last resort and only option...

[Maestro]

Waleen

Mastreo ......did you read all the posts or just shoot off again. This is johnnys reply to what school he was attending. Think you will fined (sic) this if you take time.

Yes, I did read all posts in this topic, and thank you for confirming what I had posted, ie that "JohnnyBKK was careful not to say in any of his posts that he was enrolled at Walen", but it was unnecessary since nobody disputed it.

[ukrules]

Hi guys,

In France now, i tried to keep you updated using the on air wifi but it was too slow to post.

I flew with emirates. I asked at Dubai stop what happened and they said "Deportation because of insufficient funds, very strange".

The official "thing" is insufficient funds.

Saves you face - you didn't get PNG status, or any other status you couldn't recover from.

They are doing you a favour if they only put this stamp in the passport.

[Maestro]

...

If schools are following the requirements from immigration to accurately report attendance then there would be no need for them to give any tests.

...

Do schools have report attendance of the students to immigration? Does immigration have a specific form for this report?

[whybother]

Confused as to why people keep saying Johnny should've got 'the proper visa' when this was clearly his last resort and only option...

Then he didn't meet the requirements for any long term visa and shouldn't have been living here.

[brianp0803]

Yes there is a specific form as part of the 90 day extension.

My friend's tell me they have watched the school complete the form for visa students.

The school asks if the students passport shows they were out of the country in the past 3 months and then mark perfect attendance for the rest of the time.

No checking of actual records.

My friends finished 3 months ago(but not on Ed Visa)

[aussiejon1604]

First off. I am sorry to hear of your situation. It appears to be hard to find some consistency with issues like this when I can apply the complete opposite scenario. I have held my ed-visa for ten months and whilst my school is making every effort to teach us how to speak Thai, we haven't started the reading and writing yet. I attend school as required and study due to being a student as after all it is a student visa, not a way overcoming the old back to back visa runs. Insisting six months is enough to be able to read and write is a bit harsh if your recognised school is yet to teach it. I'm not going to inflame a situation by suggesting who is at fault as these are grey times regarding visa's.

Yesterday I flew back into Thailand after a 9 day holiday in Cambodia via Don Mueng. I had envisaged some scrutiny with all that is happening. I handed the immigration officer my passport and told him in Thai I had a re-entry visa. Pom - mee - re-entry- visa - krup. He flicked through my passport and asked what visa did I have the re-entry for? ED - visa I replied in Thai. Pom - mee - Ed - visa. I had forgotten to sign my arrival card. He pointed to where I needed to sign and I replied sorry kor - toot which he made no fuss about. I signed it and he replied good luck Chok - dee. I replied thank you very much Kop - khun - maark - krup. With that I got my stamp and I was through. No mention of reading or writing or at least a further in depth conversation that I was prepared for.

Whilst I'm not fluent in Thai in just 10 months I am always of the opinion to study more in case a situation arises where you need to demonstrate sentences and their structure whilst holding a conversation with an officer. As students a lot of us get ninety day extensions on our visa's whilst our school support's us during our twelve month tuition payment period. My school doesn't offer a full guaranteed 12 month visa as with a retirement visa and 90 day reporting. An ed-visa in my situation is 90 day extensions with my school's support and at the end of 12 months now that things have changed, I leave Thailand and re-apply for a new ed-visa. At any of the ninety day extensions we could find ourselves in the situation just like the OP. The difference being it would be at our local immigration office whilst applying for our next 90 day extension. I always know how to tell immigration in Thai that my school is yet to teach reading and writing. I wouldn't be lying and if you are speaking enough of the Thai language to be able to suggest this in your conversation with the officer then you are proving yourself to be studying. You can't demonstrate something you haven't learn't yet so maybe the schools need to up their end of the bargain and support those of us who are actually following the visa regulations.

I would expect any good school to teach you writing and reading at the same time as verbal, but some schools do ask you that up front and may allow you the verbal only option. I assume the test that was given was rudimentary, like pointing at a fish tank and saying the big fish eat the little fish, and expecting you to understand. I don't expect them to be given you an exam. He was probably already under suspicion because of being here 8 years - last 6ish on ED visa.... so the fact that he failed some rudimentary exam only confirmed their suspicions. If you are a straight student who has only actually been in Thailand 6 months - they would probably show more leniency. Immigration will take all facts into consideration when they are trying to determine the veracity of those that are entering.

I agree with their intention of trying to weed out who is legit and who isn't. I would also agree that some schools would teach reading and writing at the same time but my school hasn't this option within the course I am attending. That however is not to say it isn't available as another option. We are always working towards achieving the combination of speaking, reading and writing Thai but within due course and my school is confident they are following their instructed guidelines by constantly reminding us that immigration is doing spot checks on attendance and of their following of current regulations. Thai is not and an easy language or as direct as English. Mai - die doesn't always mean "can not". If it's placed after a verb like go "bpai" - mai - die it does mean "go - can - not". Place mai - die before a verb like "mai - die - bpai" it means "I haven't or did not go". Others like have you eaten yet is it "yet not eat or "yuong - mai - gkin" or have you finished yet is "young - mai - set" As for Blaar - yii - gkin - blaar - lek (big fish eat little fish) or blaar - yii - chop - gum - lung - gkin - blaar - lek, (big fish like eating small fish) I would have to agree that after 6 ish years of ed-visa, the OP was only hindering his chances of satisfying the officer by not being able to respond with anything other than I don't understand or Pom - mai - ko - jai - krup.

There are still instances where I am personally aware that an individual has not been in attendance for 90 days and they are still receiving 90 day extensions. Hard to believe they can be across every school so the simplest form of deduction is always the individual. The fact I left the country might hinder me during my next 90 day extension but the fact that they will issue you with one again suggests you can leave briefly providing that your capable of conversing, suggesting a reason and demonstrating you are applying yourself as a student.

[ITGabs]

Probably it's different in every area but Krabi immigration usually check my school, 1 or 2 times in the month.

The owner of the school told me that immigration was quite suspicious about Russians, Chinese and South Koreans, they checked everything about them the first months. Him or his right hand sometimes take us pictures in the classroom, 5 or 6 times, not sure if have something to do with immigration or because we are pretty photogenic.

The Thai test was quite difficult at that time also but now it's different, I got my first extension last week and everything was ok with immigration, they didn't ask me nothing to test my thai but they asked if someone know what is a "gik" adding that farangs usually don't know... but I answered "sem sem mianoi"

Maybe there is a pattern related to fake companies doing scam using Hong Kong and Singapore business / bank accounts while the scammers are living in Thailand

And that is why Johnny and Deemak had problems.

[MacWalen]

So Walen is indeed the most talked about Thai school in the world. It seems we have done a lot of good over the years. No wonder so many students support us.

[JohnnyBKK]

It's the risks of living in Thailand. Walen it's a good place, it's not their fault if i got kicked out like this.

[MrWorldwide]

Confused as to why people keep saying Johnny should've got 'the proper visa' when this was clearly his last resort and only option...

And how would you say that's worked out for him over the last 24-48 hours ? About the last place most of us would want to be after flying into Thailand from HK is Dubai airport waiting for a connection to Paris. That's the travel day from hell.

His 'last resort' also included the option to actually attend classes, and I believe that's what the IOs were targeting when they insisted that he should be able to write Thai. Even if he'd attempted it and was unsuccessful in writing proper Thai, surely that would have been better than admitting that he couldnt even read the Thai script ?

Finally, he does have another option - the Elite card - but it costs money and there has been extensive discussion here as to just how much value applicants will be getting for their investment. Regardless, its an option for those with the cash and it would beat the hell out of being returned to one's home country.

I dont have the answers - Thai is a tough language for most of us and I can speak 'bar Thai' at best - but that's 7 months of actually living in the country not 8 years. I applaud the OP for admitting his mistakes in not attending classes, but I suspect there was a lot of time prior to day one of that course where he might have sat down and done something - how many of us tried to work our way through the saga of Manee, her uncle and the crow ? Even something as basic as that might have helped - pure speculation, but 95% of this thread has been speculative opinions. Some here work with Thai kids and would know just how long it takes them to learn to read and write basic sentences as their vocabulary develops - it's different for an adult learner but I'm sure many of the IOs struggled with English and expect someone studying their language to experience similar pain. If this report is accurate, I expect that there will be a lot more on Ed visas taking another look at those textbooks.

[jspill]

^ No one can have the answers because a different IO might have let him through, or if he'd had 20k in cash to show not 8k he might've got through. His Thai ability and lesson attendance or lack thereof might not be the issue.

I expect students to do nothing until more accurate reports come out because this one isn't at all.

[crazygreg44]

I will recommmend any non native speaker of English if they want to go the ED route to try to learn another language than Thai, many schools offer English, Russian or Japanese . Also you can study Muay Thai or attend cooking classes.

Then immigration can try to "test" your skills if they dare.

hahahaha I am just trying to imagine how you'd proove your Thai Cooking skills to Immigration . . . . .

chewing gum with a smack for smack open mouth ??

[Bkungbank]

My last visit to Thai Embassy in Laos met many Philipinos where using ED visa for working and this causing real students in trouble.

According to immigration laws they cannot barred you from entering in Thailand if you have no criminal record since the ED visa was under Education of ministry, test was not fall under Immigration power to expel you as you are not in computer blacklist. I will talk to lawyer and see what he says.

[Thai at Heart]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

Good grief T@H... this is a Thai Immigration Law matter, not some Landlord trying to evict a squatter from his property in Bexley.

I think the answer is, in common with Immigration Officers in most every other country, because they can.

Since the mods have posted that they have some 'confidential' information either from or about the OP and they are letting this thread run, I think troll can be ruled out (for now).

The guy was busted for pure and simple visa fraud. End of.

They refuse entry, but what can they do to you once you go back to airside?

Is airside inside Thai immigration law, so I think they would even struggle to.legally force him onto any plane let alone one to France.

He may have failed to enter thailand, but forcing him to fly to their stated destination is not in their legal perview.

[Don Mega]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

Good grief T@H... this is a Thai Immigration Law matter, not some Landlord trying to evict a squatter from his property in Bexley.

I think the answer is, in common with Immigration Officers in most every other country, because they can.

Since the mods have posted that they have some 'confidential' information either from or about the OP and they are letting this thread run, I think troll can be ruled out (for now).

The guy was busted for pure and simple visa fraud. End of.

They refuse entry, but what can they do to you once you go back to airside?

Is airside inside Thai immigration law, so I think they would even struggle to.legally force him onto any plane let alone one to France.

He may have failed to enter thailand, but forcing him to fly to their stated destination is not in their legal perview.

Maybe not forced to fly to France but with an entry denied stamp not many airlines will let him board a plane to any other destination than that of his home country as the chance of getting denied entry there is too great of a risk for them.

[zzdocxx]

So Walen is indeed the most talked about Thai school in the world. It seems we have done a lot of good over the years. No wonder so many students support us.

So what is the story with this guy ?

Did he contact you ?

Do you know who he is ?

What happened ?

[bkkcanuck8]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

Good grief T@H... this is a Thai Immigration Law matter, not some Landlord trying to evict a squatter from his property in Bexley.

I think the answer is, in common with Immigration Officers in most every other country, because they can.

Since the mods have posted that they have some 'confidential' information either from or about the OP and they are letting this thread run, I think troll can be ruled out (for now).

The guy was busted for pure and simple visa fraud. End of.

They refuse entry, but what can they do to you once you go back to airside?

Is airside inside Thai immigration law, so I think they would even struggle to.legally force him onto any plane let alone one to France.

He may have failed to enter thailand, but forcing him to fly to their stated destination is not in their legal perview.

Of course airside is completely within Thai immigration law.... about the only areas inside the borders that are "special" are embassies. In fact as soon as you enter Thai airspace you are inside Thai immigration law.

You are given a waiver from getting a transit visa in the transit lounge for 12 hours as long as you have an onward ticket within those 12 hours.

If it is longer than 12 hours you are required to get a transit visa from Thai immigration.

If you do not have an onward ticket - you are suppose to make your way to Thai immigration checkpoint in a timely manner.

Like any visa or visa waiver - Thai immigration can revoke or annul it at any time.

When you are denied entry, you are technically being detained and deported at your cost.

Edited November 30, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[DaffyDuck]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

Good grief T@H... this is a Thai Immigration Law matter, not some Landlord trying to evict a squatter from his property in Bexley.

I think the answer is, in common with Immigration Officers in most every other country, because they can.

Since the mods have posted that they have some 'confidential' information either from or about the OP and they are letting this thread run, I think troll can be ruled out (for now).

The guy was busted for pure and simple visa fraud. End of.

They refuse entry, but what can they do to you once you go back to airside?

Is airside inside Thai immigration law, so I think they would even struggle to.legally force him onto any plane let alone one to France.

He may have failed to enter thailand, but forcing him to fly to their stated destination is not in their legal perview.

Sure is. You may not have legally ENTERED Thailand, but you are on Thai soil (not some diplomatic "no man's land") and as such immigration certain has the jurisdiction to impose where to send him - particularly as agreements with other countries would not allow sending someone with a refused visa to them.

Furthermore, if you wanted to make a case, if this had happened to you, the alternative would have been to have you arrested and detained in immigration detention, until your embassy worked it out for you, after several weeks of investigation, in which case the scheme of the OP would have been fully closed, and he would probably have found himself with a PNG stamp on his passport. He was lucky to just be stamped 'insufficient funds', which gives him the option of trying again with a valid visa.