How prevalent is racism in Thailand?

[David48]

Thais have their own opinion on how they perceive non-Thais.

Non of my damm business what they think.

Just quietly ... Ws93 ...non of your business either.

your attitude, in your home country ... sure.

But in Thailand, your opinion counts for naught.

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The OP is half Thai & talking about an aspect of his experiences when visting friends and family in Thailand. My stepson, when visting family and friends in Thailand, his opinions certainly count with them. How have you reached your all encompassing conclusion?

Humm ... fair enough.

I re-read the OP, he doesn't state he's 1/2 Thai, only that he's 1/2 British and he's seen as Thai.

Maybe he's posted elsewhere he's half Thai.

If so, my apologies to the OP.

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Edited December 1, 2014 by David48

[razorramone]

Thais dont like the Nigerians that swagger round BKK ,thats about it. .But than who does.

Do most Thai's even know the word 'nigerian'? Most consider 'Africa' to be one country.

I've heard way more complaints about the Chinese and their tourists, which I can understand.

[David48]

Enlightening to see what certain member's opinions are and where they come from.

The OP is allowed to state his, or in your case, her opinions..

If that is directed at me, a very subtle mis-information you have there.

What I wrote aren't my 'opinions', they are my 'observations' ... subtle but important difference.

Your 'observations' maybe different to mine ... but the Forum is yet to read your thoughts.

Care to share 'How prevalent is racism in Thailand?'

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[kannot]

is the pope catholic?

[David48]

I made a post on the first page of this topic.

Some people liked it ... and I've copped a bit of stick from others ... all fair enough.

But do please understand this.

They are my observations, not my personal opinions. I observe some of what the Opening Poster raises in his OP.

Do you get angry or upset with the NewsReader when he/she reads the News? Or get upset with the News item itself?

BTW ... the guy who posted after me has different experiences, from a different angle admittedly and he posts well. It's always good to read personal stories.

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BTW, I don't know what to make of the member frollywolly who seems to take great delight following me around the Forum and sniping away.

Fairly sure he's a banned member returning under a new member name. FonFun ... is that you under the mask?

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[Jingthing]

Antisemitism of course is a form of racism against Jewish people.

So in reference to the OP which asks how prevalent is racism in Thailand, well towards Jews, not very racist.

About half as antisemitic as the global average in this survey.

Interestingly the least antisemitic nation in the world according to this survey is neighboring Laos!

http://global100.adl.org/#country/thailand

http://global100.adl.org/#country/laos

Also, no, there isn't really a correlation between having few Jews and low levels of antisemitism.

Of course very few Jews in Laos (similarly Thailand), but also very few in South Korea, which has quite a high level of antisemitism.

I am not suggesting that just because Thailand has a rather low level of racism against Jews, that follows that it has a low level against other groups. There is obviously no way of knowing that without specific research about Thai attitudes towards specific other groups.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

No more or less racist than any other nationality I've known, though certain dark skinned people I know are more racist than the white skinned people I know.

[thaibeachlovers]

Antisemitism of course is a form of racism against Jewish people.

So in reference to the OP which asks how prevalent is racism in Thailand, well towards Jews, not very racist.

About half as antisemitic as the global average in this survey.

Interestingly the least antisemitic nation in the world according to this survey is neighboring Laos!

http://global100.adl.org/#country/thailand

http://global100.adl.org/#country/laos

Also, no, there isn't really a correlation between having few Jews and low levels of antisemitism.

Of course very few Jews in Laos (similarly Thailand), but also very few in South Korea, which has quite a high level of antisemitism.

I am not suggesting that just because Thailand has a rather low level of racism against Jews, that follows that it has a low level against other groups. There is obviously no way of knowing that without specific research about Thai attitudes towards specific other groups.

As Jews are not a "race" ( there are black Jews and Russian Jews etc ) how can it be racism? It is just anti-Semitism, though Semites can also refer to Arabs.

NB, one can have Jewish friends and be anti Zionist. Even some Jews are anti Zionist.

[Baa_Mango]

My whole point here isn't that people are mean spirited and racist, it is just that using Lao as a casual put down on a day to day basis, seems to reflect a general looking down upon Lao people. Many people share this kind of view that Thailand or themselves are way above say Lao, Khmer, Burmese in the food chain. Which in itself is funny when you consider how many different people live together in Thailand, how many of the latter mentioned people live in BKK (and obviously North and North-East) and throughout Thailand.

Dear Gecko123

Lao in itself is short for Laotion which is not a slur.

When someone looks at another person and says look how Lao that guy looks, or look at that Lao fashion hes got, that seems to be implying something. This is my experince with friends, mostly from university. There are tons of slangs that usually come out basiaclly using Lao as a synonym with low class etc etc. I've found it ironic as because as you point out, there is a huge Laotion populatin and obviously many areas of Isaan speak Lao and sub dialects of it. To be honest I've heard all sorts of Thais from all areas of the country, talk badly about others, whether central, southern, NE, North, there do exist tons of preconceived notions.

Believe me the word "Lao" is thrown around TONS, especially with younger people. Its more of a playful insult than a tradiional western style "slur" would be but still, this is very common. Go look in bathroom stalls in older shopping malls or universities.. " Banks dad is Lao mak" "Nok is a Lao whore" etc etc. even Imperial Sumrong is known as Jaap land (จ๊าบแลนด์๗ taken from the insensitive nationality based insult of เสี่ยวจ๊าบลาว .. anyways seems like you missed the boat on my post, or perhaps my semi coherent gibberish wasn't adding up for you. The word Kaek is literally guest but can be often used in a very resentful manner towards Indians, although my point is that it is aimed at the long term residents here..

Oh just re-reading your post, your talking about hanging out with farmers and such - yes I doubt these people would be ridiculing Lao or Isaan workers, my point is that LAO the word itself is used as an insult.. anyways yes I see that now you don't live in BKK and basiacally have no clue what I am talking about. Jeez. Anyways long story short - these things are deeply ingrained in Thai culture, especially with middle to uppler class people living in Bangkok.

Anyone remember the channel 3 news clip where they showed a bunch of dodgy and insulting translations for Lao language comparing it with Thai? They had green light and red light as some really laughable mythical crap which was pretty insulting, of course was a huge back lash and what not and the producer had to play dumb and say it was a translation error and what not.

antiquated view of the world partly fuelled by ignorance, an outdated overtly nationalistic national curriculum in the education system, as well as just thoughts past down through generations. I haven't seen racism in the western sense of crossburning and creed hating kinda way..

Most Thais have serious resentment against Indians (as well as Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, etc) and even use the quasi-slur แขก/kaek or "guest" just because at this point in time there are many successful naturalized Indian people who are Thai already (2nd, 3rd generation).

Quite funny to hear people using the word Lao as an insult and derogative slur, as if they are unaware of the deep connections in SEA between all of the Thai - Lao - Cambodia - Burma citizens.

Baa_Mango:

You label both "Kaek" and "Lao" as derogatory slurs.

When I have heard these terms used it has never been in an insulting or derogatory/disparaging context.

I find your claim that the term "Lao" is derogatory to be particularly surprising. When I hear this term used in central Thailand it seems almost always to be done in a teasing way to explain why someone is not speaking central standard Thai. Regularly, people who speak Issan dialects toss out words like "Bor" to test whether I can understand their dialect. I've never sensed that they feel inferior or are made to feel inferior because of their regional dialect. In fact, I'm left with the impression that they are quite proud of their linguistic heritage.

I've asked dozens of people about their attitude about people from Issan. I've never heard comments like they're lazy, dishonest, stupid, whatever, etc. Most of the time people say they have hard lives because of the regional difference in climate. There are lots of people who work in a migrant work capacity who come into my area at harvest time. They come from Chaiyaphum, Khon Kaen, Korat. The local farmers never display a negative attitude about them, and I've never heard any kind of "thank god they finally went home" comments when they return home at the end of the harvest. Also lots of intermarriage locally between Issan and Central Thailand communities.

An Indian guy had a thread a few months ago claiming he was treated rudely in Bangkok. I really can't speak to this issue as I do not live in Bangkok and there aren't any Indians in my area. But I have met Indians in Bangkok who seem to be well integrated and happy. The Indian temples in Bangkok certainly seem to well-integrated into their neighborhoods.

Interesting exchange of experiences. Your post and OP's post do touch on a very interesting question: does the younger generation have a less positive attitude towards foreigners than older Thais? Attitudes may be changing. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

Right now, however I'd still put my money on rural farmer attitudes being a better reflection of Thai culture than relying on Bangkok bathroom graffiti, but I'll admit you may be on to something here.

[benalibina]

i have never heard a thai say : 'dumb farang'

White people come here after a lifetime of being the majority in theyre home country. Then they experience what its like to be the minority when they get to thailand.

On your 1st.....most likely you do not speak or understand thai.

On your 2nd......but but empathy is not rife on this forum....

[Berkshire]

I am generalizing, but...

Most Thais don't think anyone who is not Thai is as good as they are.

It kind of strange since anyone who can afford to visit here from a western country spends more on air fare than most can earn here in Thailand in a year.

You seem to be suggesting that the amount of money one has determines whether one has the right to look down on another. If not, why even bring up money?

[Gecko123]

I personally complement Thailand for placing the interests of their own people first and securing their own culture from outside influences. Again some may consider this as racism a sort of fascist society and others like me may consider this as just preservation of anything pertaining that is Thai.

I am in agreement with you on this.

I would describe this as "cultural resilience" rather than "racism."

In today's world of multi-national conglomerates and global media, this self-protective quasi-insular resilience should be respected by visitors rather than being treated as something that needs to be destroyed.

[Berkshire]

Ridercnx makes a good point. I too have run into many more racist farangs in Thailand than racist Thais. Perhaps it is you who's being naive...or in denial.

In denial of what?

I'm saying that it's the same both ways. Westerners, Thai, whatever.. people the world over people are racist, it's just the way it is. I was actually agreeing that for some westerners it's their first taste of being on the receiving end of it.

Comparing how many racists you know of whatever race/country etc.. makes no difference, the fact is that racism is as prevalent here as it is anywhere else.

The point is it's not the same. When westerners say racism, we're talking about the horrific aspects of the past, e.g., slavery, lynchings, rape, murder, etc. To apply that term in Thailand is nonsense. There's more discrimination here due to class rather than skin color. Yes, men prefer Thai women with lighter skin...just like men prefer thinner women over fat. But to suggest that farangs are victims of racism is absurd. Racism because of dual-pricing and visa runs? Let's find something more serious to complain about.

[Berkshire]

I personally complement Thailand for placing the interests of their own people first and securing their own culture from outside influences. Again some may consider this as racism a sort of fascist society and others like me may consider this as just preservation of anything pertaining that is Thai.

I am in agreement with you on this.

I would describe this as "cultural resilience" rather than "racism."

In today's world of multi-national conglomerates and global media, this self-protective quasi-insular resilience should be respected by visitors rather than being treated as something that needs to be destroyed.

Agree with both you guys. And in fact, most countries do the same. In the US, we call love of country patriotism. In Thailand, some misguided farangs say nationalism. And they can never explain why the distinction.

[gk10002000]

I have heard many Thais in Pattaya say they would prefer snakes to Indians. So yes I think there is a lot of racism at many levels.

[Ace of Pop]

Dont You thing its more about the "Type" of any race...Ive found that folks dislike any Colour or Creed if they act like Yobs.Have You never said bad about scum from your own Nation.So if a Thai comments on any group behaving badly,is that Racist.?,no its fair comment to me.

[Ws93]

I am half thai. I hope i am not looked down because of this, i share the same ancestry background as a full Thai, it just so happens my ancesty comes from two different continents and i was born an raised in a continent where my european ancestry is. To be Thai, i have to be born and raised in Tgailand? Is my ancestry worth nothing?

And to those saying i am short sighted about the racism here, ive never seen it. Im not on this site a lot which maybe explains why.

By racism, i mean racial slurs, contempt for that ethnicity. Not just stereotyping a race.

And yes i hope we are all mature not to be racist.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ws93

[David48]

I am half thai.

And to those saying i am short sighted about the racism here, ive never seen it. Im not on this site a lot which maybe explains why.

By racism, i mean racial slurs, contempt for that ethnicity. Not just stereotyping a race.

And yes i hope we are all mature not to be racist.

Ws93 ... apologies for a post earlier.

I didn't know you are 1/2 Thai.

Always happy to admit when I've made a mistake.

[Ws93]

I am half thai.

And to those saying i am short sighted about the racism here, ive never seen it. Im not on this site a lot which maybe explains why.

By racism, i mean racial slurs, contempt for that ethnicity. Not just stereotyping a race.

And yes i hope we are all mature not to be racist.

Ws93 ... apologies for a post earlier.

I didn't know you are 1/2 Thai.

Always happy to admit when I've made a mistake.

Apologise for what? You didnt insult me or verbally abuse me

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ws93

[frollywolly]

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BTW, I don't know what to make of the member frollywolly who seems to take great delight following me around the Forum and sniping away.

Fairly sure he's a banned member returning under a new member name. FonFun ... is that you under the mask?

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You are an odd little man.

You have said this more than once now. I am not any former member or banned member.

[Sayonarax]

Sticking ya finger up is so western. Your cousin sounds like he's waiting to get his head knocked in before learning to a be a civil human being. I'd be careful what your cousin says around ppl, a lot farang know plenty profanity in Thai. First thing they learn., no 5v1 crap, just him getting his lights locked out.

[Been there done that]

Here is my take for what it is worth. Racism is rampant through all the institutions. It is not as obvious as other countries because it is veneered with the Thai smile and obligatory courtesy that is the Thai protection measure. Beneath the smile the mechanics are fastidiously working against you as a foreigner.

The average Thai bod is not immune to the brainwashing that emanates from the institutions, especially school. The average person is however somewhat detached from doing anything to help or hurt a foreigner beyond price gouging. Then there are the criminal elements who see an opportunity to steal and scam from foreigners in the knowledge that the authorities will be so biased towards them that even the most feeble excuses will succeed against a foreigners solid evidence.

If you challenge and end up in the Justice system then lawyers take over the abuse whilst extracting as much money as possible on the pretense of helping you.

Racism is a curse on this country and the deceitful courteous treatment you get belies the truth of what will be done to hurt you. Of course sometimes the facade will break and then people die. No one gives a hoot!

This comment made me think alot.

Care to elaborate on your, undoubtedly personal, experiences.

[Berkshire]

I have heard many Thais in Pattaya say they would prefer snakes to Indians. So yes I think there is a lot of racism at many levels.

I've heard many farangs say that...on TV. But I've never heard a Thai say that.

[tim armstrong]

The Chinese factor has not been mentioned. Many Chinese are incredibly rascist, and given the large numbers of Thai/Chinese businesses and families here its not surprising that rascism seeps into the rest of the community. I'm pure Anglo-saxon Oz and I've never experienced rascism, but then I'm white. Chinese friends tell me that the further away from white you are - the more racism applies. But an earlier post is also true, that dislike because of manners, wealth, etc is probably more common than racism. My wife is not racist in the strict sense, but doesnt like people with black coloured skin, for no obvious reason. A well educated Taiwanese friend has a business in China and says that its one of the most difficult, rude places she has ever been to.

I think Thais sometimes demonstrate their dislike of foreigners by their actions. For example, there is a good seafood restaurant at the bottom end of Naklua Road in Pattaya , called "Moomaloy'. On most nights it has 2-300 customers, live music and great food. Most of the customers are local thais and not foreigners, because you need to know where it is, and there are no English signs. I also think its no accident that at the airport , the further away from the coffee shops on the third floor you get the cheaper the food gets, and most people don't even know about the food court at the far end of the ground floor.

Personally I've never understood the need to be racist. I've lived and worked with many nationalities, like most, disliked a few, but the concept that I was in some way better than anyone else has never crossed my mind.

[baneko]

I see a lot. Had it being a farang in a rural village. Seen it in hotels with Indian people. Seen it against the Burmese and Cambodians. Black guys get it. They dont like the chinese. Its everywhere.

Also seen it class style with each other. Not racism but class system.

Weird.

[timewilltell]

Here is my take for what it is worth. Racism is rampant through all the institutions. It is not as obvious as other countries because it is veneered with the Thai smile and obligatory courtesy that is the Thai protection measure. Beneath the smile the mechanics are fastidiously working against you as a foreigner.

The average Thai bod is not immune to the brainwashing that emanates from the institutions, especially school. The average person is however somewhat detached from doing anything to help or hurt a foreigner beyond price gouging. Then there are the criminal elements who see an opportunity to steal and scam from foreigners in the knowledge that the authorities will be so biased towards them that even the most feeble excuses will succeed against a foreigners solid evidence.

If you challenge and end up in the Justice system then lawyers take over the abuse whilst extracting as much money as possible on the pretense of helping you.

Racism is a curse on this country and the deceitful courteous treatment you get belies the truth of what will be done to hurt you. Of course sometimes the facade will break and then people die. No one gives a hoot!

This comment made me think alot.

Care to elaborate on your, undoubtedly personal, experiences.

I would be happy to elaborate over a cup of coffee somewhere. Involved in many court cases at the moment and know of quite a few others in a similar boat. Been to most of the government departments all of whom are happy to smile and listen, ask for evidence and when given do nothing. Been through other nonsense on getting ID cards for my kids and so on and so forth.

Most people stay out of trouble and I was one who took that view but unfortunately trouble sometimes comes to find you, especially as a foreigner who is targeted because the system is undoubtedly very against you and success in crime is easy because most people cannot afford to fight. Believe me it is very very expensive.

When criminals steal everything, threaten you into exile, lawyers you pay help the other side whilst screwing you for every penny and people you trust sell you down the river, other lawyers twist and abuse the legal system and every obstacle is put in your way to do anything to protect yourself then you will begin to understand. When the government institutions collude with these people in various ways because it is all one web of deceit and lies and as a foreigner you have not just got no support at all, you have support withdrawn and knocked away from you.

If you never get involved with the local or national administration you will see much less because the people you interact with are just service staff more or less, normal people without power or intention or cause to disadvantage you.

[kungpao]

I am a half black half white person of color. My skin color falls almost smack dab in the middle of the Thai skin color palette.

I have been coming to Thailand for close to 30 years and have lived here continuously for 12 years and am fluent in Thai. I have NEVER experienced overt racism from Thais and feel extremely at home here in terms of skin color. I have surveyed Thais about their attitudes towards people from Issan, Myanmar and white foreigners. Almost all of the responses I've received have been mild and tolerant in tone. I've never elicited the type of vitriolic responses being reported by the OP.

An interesting additional observation I would like to share is that in many Thai families there can be a significant variance of skin tone between members of the same family, and certainly among members of the extended family. In other words, the mother may be lighter complected while the father is darker complected (or vice versa), and if they have 5 kids, two might be lighter complected while the other 3 might be darker complected. This is the case in my wife's family. Because there can be such a wide variance in skin tone within a family, this serves as a natural inhibitor against people discriminating against someone because of their skin tone. In other words, how can you discriminate against people who are darker complected than you when your little sister is darker complected than you?

If any white people feel discriminated against by Thai people, they are only experiencing 1/10,000,000 (yes, that's seven zeros) of the racism and discrimination people of color experience every day of their life in Western countries such as America and England. Escaping Western prejudice was one of my primary motives for moving here, and if I thought that Thais were racially discriminating against me, I'd have left long ago. Trust me, coming from a mixed race background, my "radar" for detecting prejudicial attitudes and behavior is as highly-calibrated as they come, and I definitely don't pick up the racist attitudes from Thai people that many here on TVF are so fond of proclaiming exist.

When a foreigner walks around acting like they own the place, scowls constantly, angers quickly, treats Thai woman like they are all prostitutes and Thai men like they are all worthless idiots, can't be bothered to learn the language but is quickly exasperated when a Thai doesn't speak English, or otherwise regularly acts in a boorish manner, it shouldn't come as a surprise that many people resent and dislike this behavior (myself included).

But please don't confuse this resentment and dislike with racism, because its not.

This post should be in the hall of fame, if there was one. Not only for the level-setting in Thailand, but also Western countries. Bravo.

[wow64]

There is a lot of racism in Thailand.

If you don't see it well you are blind or just stupid and living in a bubble.

Ask a thai person if they are racisist they will say no... then ask them what they really think of Indians? There is a thai saying you can trust a snake before you can trust an Indian..

Simple example was at a restaurant with Thai Staff from work 3 days ago.. a thai lady that was there had a daughter with an African man not sure which country.. The comments they were saying really were terrible about the thai wife and daughter and the Thais thought it was very funny. The wife was a little chunky not fat just had a booty. According to the thais she had a black husband as no thai would want her. The comments to the little kid I will not repeat.

Edited December 8, 2014 by wow64

[Loptr]

i have never heard a thai say : 'dumb farang'

but ive seen farangs say : dumb thai' one million times on this forum

whos the racist?

Thai isn't a race, it's a nationality.

Insulting Thais may make you a bigot, but it certainly doesn't make you a racist.

PS.

White people are not a majority in the USA, not sure about the UK.

[Berkshire]

i have never heard a thai say : 'dumb farang'

but ive seen farangs say : dumb thai' one million times on this forum

whos the racist?

Thai isn't a race, it's a nationality.

Insulting Thais may make you a bigot, but it certainly doesn't make you a racist.

PS.

White people are not a majority in the USA, not sure about the UK.

Thanks for the chart. I've told the britmantoo dude pretty much the same. Funny that know-it-all guys like that can never come back and admit that they're wrong. Is it a "face" thing?