Issan woman scammed in Europe?

[micmichd]

I'm with this lady from Issan in Pattaya, both never married. She's in urgent need of money because her teenage daughter is about to go to University. She's proud and insists she can stand on her own feet.

Now she was offered a job at a Christmas Market in Holland. Visa + wp oK. But there's an agency that want an advance fee for this job. Maybe it's only deposit for a special Christmas dress, I don't know. They didn't state that so clearly.

Should we (her or me) pay the advance fee, or are we about to fall into some scam?

[MJCM]

If it sounds to be to good to be true, it often is.

Why should a European Company pay for a Thai to come to Europe and work in a Christmas Market and have to pay an Advance to work.

Be very careful.

Edited December 1, 2014 by MJCM

[harryfrompattaya]

You are being scam by the agency or your girl friend

Do not sent money

[CharlieH]

I would call it a probable scam. Unprofessional to ask for money before even arriving. usually those "fees" are discussed prior to starting but not paid before even getting there.

The other question, (no disrespect or offence intended), how well do you know this woman? is it possible or feasible this payment is actually to a relative/friend already there ?

Either way, I wouldnt get involved.

[David48]

If there is a 'job finding fee' it's paid by the Employer ... not the employee.

SCAM.

Oh ... just going by the Chiang Mai Uni Terms ... they start in Jan.

SCAM ... by your Partner.

Contact the University ... the house of cards will collapse quickly.

Edited December 1, 2014 by David48

[rgs2001uk]

Sounds more like, farang scammed in Pattaya.

Pay nothing.

[micmichd]

I've known this woman for 3 years now, and I also know her family. In fact, ger family gave me credit when I had trouble with European banks.

I know her daughter, too. I actually know all her social network and her personal history.

To me, this looks to me like a typical "career":

"Fallen Angel" gets a baby without being married, family send her to Pattaya to make money for the baby. She never really kept much for herself.

She has lots of friends all over the world, of course, she worked in a bar in Pattaya. She has an invitation from a family in Holland, they will do their best to look for her.

And she's tough enough to defend herself (face to face) if necessary.

But the agency, I don't know...

She says it's normal for migrant workers in Europe, and maybe it is.

I just wonder if there's any "black list" for agencies engaged in labour scam.

[micmichd]

Unfortunately the barrier between regular labour and human trafficking is low even within Europe, especially for season work where you need a special dress to attract customers.

Many East European girls end up as prostitutes, we know this.

But we also know that there might be problems with foreign women that need a dress in a special (in this case: smaller) size, and then never show up.

I think a deposit for a dress would be oK as long as there is a guarantee (by contract or law) that the agency has to pay it back after Christmas.

I'm aware there is much scam in the labour market, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are all scammers...

[frollywolly]

Common for Thais to pay some kickback/fee/percentage to obtain a job in certain countries. European countries are popular. Think of the WP/Visa coming with the job or vice versa.

Your friend heard about the job by way of someone having done the work or already working there?

Finders commission up front is not uncommon for low skilled opportunities. Massage, bar, seasonal work.

[David48]

Common for Thais to pay some kickback/fee/percentage to obtain a job in certain countries. European countries are popular. Think of the WP/Visa coming with the job or vice versa.

Your friend heard about the job by way of someone having done the work or already working there?

Finders commission up front is not uncommon for low skilled opportunities. Massage, bar, seasonal work.

frollywolly, are you suggesting that the job 'at a Christmas Market in Holland' is at a 'Massage, bar'?

.

[KhunBENQ]

At least it is the first time that I hear an Isan Thai to be hired to work in Europe for Christmas market.

Overall Europe today is an unusal target for unskilled Thai workers.

(with the exception of berry pickers in Finnland during summer [where many end up without earning anything overall])

Typical targets for Isan people: South Korea, Taiwan, Israel ...

And yes, there is always a "broker"/agent in the business.

Most Isan folks would not be able to organize on their own, do the flight, find their way.

So its usually a "group tour" with all included service.

Typical duration to really make money is 3 years !

One guy from the village needed a 100'000 Baht loan to finance his work trip to Israel.

His wife paid back in time.

Flight and other costs are very high to Europe (Holland).

I wonder how one can make money with a single short work engagement during Christmas time.

Unskilled workers/helpers/service personnel do not earn a fortune these days.

I have doubts.

As David48 I think it smells fishy and the job is not what you consider a Christmas market job.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[beano2274]

can she speak Dutch to be able to sell something at the market? Does she even know what they sell at Christmas time?

This is one of those scams.

[frollywolly]

Common for Thais to pay some kickback/fee/percentage to obtain a job in certain countries. European countries are popular. Think of the WP/Visa coming with the job or vice versa.

Your friend heard about the job by way of someone having done the work or already working there?

Finders commission up front is not uncommon for low skilled opportunities. Massage, bar, seasonal work.

frollywolly, are you suggesting that the job 'at a Christmas Market in Holland' is at a 'Massage, bar'?

.

How could you possibly deduce that from what I wrote? Try and keep up old bean.

[David48]

Can she speak Dutch to be able to sell something at the market?

Mistletoe and Kisses ?

.

[David48]

Common for Thais to pay some kickback/fee/percentage to obtain a job in certain countries. European countries are popular. Think of the WP/Visa coming with the job or vice versa.

Your friend heard about the job by way of someone having done the work or already working there?

Finders commission up front is not uncommon for low skilled opportunities. Massage, bar, seasonal work.

frollywolly, are you suggesting that the job 'at a Christmas Market in Holland' is at a 'Massage, bar'?.

<snip>

[micmichd]

Yes, she can speak Dutch. She knows how to behave in Holland, she's well-educated, and she's been there before. She can make fantastic patates frittes, even roll cigarettes although she doesn't smoke.

And it's not so hard to guess what to sell there: about the same stuff they sell to Farangs in Christmas Markets in Pattaya.

She's not a baby, and I'm not her father.

If she's back here for Christmas, she might want a Christmas present.

It is her life, and I'm not about to judge.

[gerry123]

they obviously don't have buffaloes in Holland (sick or otherwise ) so the next best thing a Xmas market

[micmichd]

Mistletoe and kisses?

She'll be back here on December 23, hopefully she'll save her last kiss for me.

Buffaloes are not so many left in Holland, unfortunately.

They have cows, though, and 4wheel vehicles in Issan now.

[micmichd]

The biggest dangers are probably love-sick old Farangs and their jealous women.

[David48]

I'm a huge Dutch Fan.

Makes me smile thinking about one day returning there.

Had a beautiful Dutch gf who lived in Utrecht ... stunning.

Took me up to meet her family in Ausfreinseland (excuse the spelling) .. first time I saw snow at a Beach ... I'm, an Aussie.

My best mate in Australia was Dutch.

One day I hope to return .. but surely in Summer !

Great Bakeries, bicycles everywhere, 3 dykes ... the Watcher, the Dreamer and the Sleeper.

[micmichd]

Yeah, it's a fantastic country, my first GFs came from there, and now my latest GF is going there. She's already got the travelling fever. And I think that's oK, I wouldn't like to have other people make my decisions for me.

Have you ever been to the "world's most multicultural city" - Amsterdam ?

[lazygourmet]

Scam or not: Christmas markets are usually starting on December 1st.

The time she will have all her paperworks done: greetings season will be already finished...

[FritsSikkink]

Why would someone get a Thai worker with no qualifications to come to Holland for a couple of weeks work. There is a lot of paperwork (and costs) needed to arrange this.

[Crazy chef 1]

pm me if you would like to know how to make the big bucks in selling Christmas trees...15 years ago i "earned" 320000thb in three weeks...

[micmichd]

Scam or not: Christmas markets are usually starting on December 1st.

The time she will have all her paperworks done: greetings season will be already finished...

[micmichd]

She's quick quick, and she's experienced. The paperwork is already done, she just has to free her bank account.

And she's by no way uneducated. She's got brown skin,mmaybe a bit shorter legs than most Farang women, she's beautiful, she smiles and laughs, and she can dance.

She's really worth every cent in Europe, and lot more.

She's sitting next to me in a R'n'R bar in Pattaya, she'll go after tomorrow, and I wish her good luck.

♡♥

[tullynagardy]

Considering the processing time for a Schengen visa Christmas will be over by the time it would be granted. Keep in mind there are thousands of thais already living legally in Holland so why would anyone need to bring someone direct from Thailand!

That and the fact they don`t offer visas for people to work in markets suggests it`s surely a scam.

In reality, if she gets a visa at all, she`ll likely be getting a visitors visa then asked/made to work as a hooker once there.

Edited December 1, 2014 by tullynagardy

[micmichd]

No problem with Schengen Visa, she's got a 1y Visa from last summer. It was only the advance fee for the head- (or body-)hunter that made me suspicious. Maybe hard to believe: beautiful brown women have a brain, too, sometimes.

[tullynagardy]

Maybe hard to believe: beautiful brown women have a brain, too, sometimes.

Can well believe it, i married one

I would however counter that any farrang that thinks this girl was head hunted to travel accross the world, to "work in a market" @ 7 Euros an hour for 2 weeks, lacks similar intellect.

Theres another line of work in Holland thats entirely legal, popular with the Thai community, thats pays somewhat better.

[tebee]

I too would be suspicious of the fees, but without knowing a lot more details it's hard to be sure . For starters how much is the fee? Who is paying the air fare - when I last did contract work in Holland ( a long time ago.....) the agency had by law to get me a return air ticket. Are they doing this legally - paying minimum wage and getting a WP?

It would cost over 2000 euros to employ a local on a temporary contract for a month, so it might be indeed be worth bringing someone from Thailand instead - I'm not sure what the job situation is like there now, it might be hard to find a local for it.

One thing that worries me - you say she has a one year visa - does this allow her to work?