Panel proposes dissolving Thai police head office, governing body

[tingtongfarang]

The police should also be centralised to become police forces under regional and local administrations.

How exactly does this make sense, I thought shifting power to a local level was decentralisation?

Maybe lost in translation but even then its the first time in my life i use the expression ( lipstick on a pig)

[pedro01]

Slowly, slowly, slowly the army is taking control!!

While distracting people with their beachcleaning, taxiranks and soapy-massage closures.

We are moving in a dangerous direction!!

How so?

The police are totally corrupt.

[jabis]

As quote from the newspaper, not to be named here, the translation reads:

"Mr Wanchai said administrative power now centred at the RTPO head office would be redistributed to regional and local levels, where local people would be allowed to participate in administration, appointments and transfers of police personnel."

[Beng]

Good idea, if everyone follows the rules.

[ramrod711]

I thought the perfect solution was already in place. Remember the, bonus for turning down a bribe, scheme? Or was it the, opportunity to falsely accuse people of offering a bribe so that you can collect the bonus, scheme. I can't really remember, but I'm sure it would have worked.

[Wilsonandson]

The army is controlled by itself so why interfear with the police? Some have given the force a nad name but tarnishing all of them? No, They have made Thailands streets safe for decades, keep up the good work.

[RubbaJohnny]

Think tank,Land of Smailes

Tanks for the mammories

[Mr Somtam]

Georgia Stylee !!!

[candide]

As quote from the newspaper, not to be named here, the translation reads:

"Mr Wanchai said administrative power now centred at the RTPO head office would be redistributed to regional and local levels, where local people would be allowed to participate in administration, appointments and transfers of police personnel."

Interesting to compare with other anti-corruption reforms in other countries, I.e.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/27/us-mexico-violence-idUSKCN0JB27420141127

"Embattled President Enrique Pena Nieto on Thursday vowed to simplify Mexico's chaotic police structure and stop collusion between officials.......

Promising a new law to stop the infiltration of local governments by organized crime, Pena Nieto also pledged to reform the penal system and send an proposal to Congress to unify multi-layered police forces in Mexico's 31 states.

Mexico has a plethora of police forces, as hundreds of municipalities, the states and the capital Mexico City each have their own."

[NeverSure]

In a more civilized country you would have Police Unions negotiating their wages as an alternative to stealing from the public!!

In a more civilized country you would have police unions negotiating how to steal from the public legally instead of taking tea money.

[Wilsonandson]

The police can run their own. Without that it's no longer a force. Blaming everything on the police due to recent news is wrong. Most if not the majority do a dangerpus job well for little pay. Next time ypu see a policeman say hello and you'll see they're not all robots or unapproachable. Most care.

[coobah666]

lock them all up. but then you have to lock up 99 percent of Thai society, corruption is instilled in this country, to get any where in life as a Thai you have to PAY. so transfer as many as you like and the top man will always see the ways of the past and speak about reform to put more money in his pocket, same same but not different.

[EyesWideOpen]

Really so weird that people see the police as totally corrupt and at the same time believe that the other major institution of security is as pure as the driven snow. Shades of grey if not exactly carbon copy.

I have a friend who has lived in Thailand for 20 + years. He told me that

in essence all the income from somewhat shady enterprises is divided

between the military and the police. Under Thaksin, the police had the upper

hand and raked in the money. Now things have changed, and the military

has the upper hand and is raking it in. But in either case, the loser of course

is the Thai people....

[EyesWideOpen]

The police can run their own. Without that it's no longer a force. Blaming everything on the police due to recent news is wrong. Most if not the majority do a dangerpus job well for little pay. Next time ypu see a policeman say hello and you'll see they're not all robots or unapproachable. Most care.

You have got to be kidding. Follow the news. All the police positions are

paid for, therefore corruption is built into the system as the policeman

must now pay back the money he borrowed for his position. So the

implication that there are policemen with a heart of gold flies in face

of all evidence. There is not a half and half system, either they all pay

for their position, or none of them pay.

Wait , let me guess. Your Thai wife has a brother in the Thai police force.

These seem to be the only guys who leap to the defense of this corrupt

group of clowns......

Edited December 2, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[jabis]

As quote from the newspaper, not to be named here, the translation reads:

"Mr Wanchai said administrative power now centred at the RTPO head office would be redistributed to regional and local levels, where local people would be allowed to participate in administration, appointments and transfers of police personnel."

Interesting to compare with other anti-corruption reforms in other countries, I.e.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/27/us-mexico-violence-idUSKCN0JB27420141127

"Embattled President Enrique Pena Nieto on Thursday vowed to simplify Mexico's chaotic police structure and stop collusion between officials.......

Promising a new law to stop the infiltration of local governments by organized crime, Pena Nieto also pledged to reform the penal system and send an proposal to Congress to unify multi-layered police forces in Mexico's 31 states.

Mexico has a plethora of police forces, as hundreds of municipalities, the states and the capital Mexico City each have their own."

Yup - in my previous post on the first page I was wondering where we have seen this idea before (there are indeed many examples in history), I was just posting a more accurate quote what was said than in the OP (centralize vs redistribute).

[recycled]

Is it really asking to much for the police force to be just that, policing. Apparently not, so lets not try.

[boomerangutang]

If you take a cow paddie and divvie it up in to 11 pieces and die each piece a different color, they're still cow paddies. Some good may come for departmentalizing police, but it will, among other things, exacerbate what Thai public servants love to do: DEFER. Even at the best of times, a simple matter gets first COMPLICATED. Then it gets DEFERRED TO ANOTHER DEPT, each passing on greeted by ignorance and/or an outstretched hand insisting on a hand-out.

I recently had a tax issue re; a small tourist-biz I operate. I went to the bureaucrat who purportedly was in charge of that issue. He wouldn't look at or say a word to me (no surprise there.) He wouldn't even return my sawadee. He had alacrity when demanding money (via my intermediary). I went to a Thai lawyer for assistance. He took money, and recommended an accountant who took money also, but didn't do anything at all. A few more twists and turns (back to the original bureaucrat twice), more money spent, another dozen hours wasted, and ......I finally went to a bureaucrat on the other side of town, who nobody recommended (it was my street sense), and she told me to do nothing. I did nothing, and haven't been hassled in the 20 months since.

Thai bureaucracy is to sense and decency what an omelette is to parachutes manufacture.

[surangw]

the only sure way would be using vats of those corrosive chemicals the cartels use to eliminate the competition

[Reigntax]

They will need some strong acid to dissolve this one. The Teflon coating is quite resistant!

[Roadman]

Taking them away from political control has to happen. There is a lot of merit in the concept of their overall governance going to a National Council of Police Affairs as a central body who are made up of relevant government agencies and specialists. That then lessens the likelihood of a future single scum bag political identity like Thaksin being able to buy the department for their own dictatorial gain, regardless of whether they came through the police ranks.

Letting that governance to a lower level is just opening up for more of the same corrupt abuse from political mafia families at those lower levels. However the idea of transferring forestry police to the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry is sound as that is a specialised field and is not to dissimilar from some western countries where warranted forestry officers preform a similar level of duty. Only difference that is real in Thailand is those abusing the laws regards forestry sometimes come heavily armed and those arms are used hence Thai Forestry Police would need a heavier clout ability than what is required from Forestry Officers in western countries. Tourist police should also go to TAT but then do not see that they need to have the same level of armament and clout as a Forestry Police officer for example or a standard run of the mill police officer.

While the major change that does need to happen is removing them from political control (and this is Thailand not a functioning western democracy) the other major change that needs to go with that is wages and conditions need completely overhauled. It is ludicrous the pay and reward disparity for police officers versus clear and open pay and reward rates for teachers for example.

Of course over riding that all in Thailand is as usual the biggest changes to hold it all in place is laws have to be enforced equally to all and the other biggie that patronage concepts have to be removed from political and government fields.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Roadman

[Thai at Heart]

Decentralised policing. Why not

Disband the lot of them I say. They are a vipers nest. And when they go down they wi take a lot of people with them

[thesetat2013]

Once an elected Gov is in place this will make no difference. The PM places who they want in charge of each ministry. Favors, payoffs and bribes will just be moved to a higher level. Also, each ministry has enough trouble doing their own jobs let alone adding a police force to it.

They need to make a new police force with real training and ethics using people who really want to help the community. Unfortunately this will never happen

[falangjim]

Dissolve them in hydrochloric acid.

[boomerangutang]

Decentralised policing. Why not Disband the lot of them I say. They are a vipers nest. And when they go down they wi take a lot of people with them

You can take a cinder block, pulverize it with a hammer, then reconstitute/reconstruct it with water and a bit of grout ...it's still essentially a cinder block.

I'm in Chiang Rai. The Tourist Police here are decent, friendly and probably a bit bored (there are no murders, rapes, and few large-ticket thefts up here). However, even the Tourist Police will defer (or slough-off) many issues/complaints to the brown shirts. That's a microcosm of what will happen if the police are departmentalized to 2 dozen specialty posts. Granted, some specialization is needed, but that can be done in-house with departments. Divvying up the police force will only add confusion and, as I said earlier, incessant DEFERMENTS. Thais are world class at deferring responsibility. They'll start by saying 'mai dai' (can't be done) repeatedly, and then if you don't give up in frustration, they'll defer you to someone else, where you have to explain your issue to someone new for another half hour, and then you get deferred again, - .....on and on it goes.

[rickirs]

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In a more civilized country you would have Police Unions negotiating their wages as an alternative to stealing from the public!! alt=whistling.gif>

In a more civilized country you would have police unions negotiating how to steal from the public legally instead of taking tea money. alt=tongue.png>

At least it would be transparent and accountable for money received. Police unions in a more "civilized" country negotiate salary and benefits with public officials and paid through public taxes. And the public has a right to challenge and protest such negotiations and hold their public officials accountable for how their taxes are spent. That would seem an improvement from "off the books" bribes.

[Boxclever]

I wish they'd just come out and say what they are really planning, they intend to put the police force under military control. That's the ultimate plan!

[TPI]

stupid thing is that the police actually did their jobs, ie, traffic cops, highway cops etc and started to issue fines(legal ones) to all those that did not obey the traffic laws (red lights, indicators, giving way, having a licence, being old enough, speeding, driving/riding while using a mobile phone, driving on the wrong side/wrong way, crossing double lines, using the wrong lanes etc) and confiscated cars/bikes if not paid they would make an absolute fortune and be able to pay the police a decent wage. The police are never on the roads unless they need tea money, they do not stop people doing the wrong thing, they will not come out to a house when they are called to an offence being committed, they refuse to do anything that is any type of work or in the heat of the day/rain, maybe they need to be taught how to actually be police and what their duties involve. Also why in the hell do they drive those stupid single/twin cab trucks and not proper police cars, they are heaps of sh*t and seem to be used by everyone else to do any moving they need done.

Dear Mr CJ, can you imagine how terrible this country would be if everybody did their job to the best of their ability?

Whereas now everything is easy, a small fine here and there isn't a problem, things get done eventually (sometime) and we all cruise along into the furure! Didn't we all come here to get away from the stupifying "nana" states that the outside world has become? For mine, I hope that the Junta stays forever, that the RTA never changes and that government officers continue in their bizarre way to keep the country with only one foot in the grave!

[rickirs]

The proposals generally have some good content but its details may be at such cross-purposes to the extent that, taken as a whole, they may effectively neutralize what effectiveness and professionalism the Thai law enforcement can accomplish. Back to same-same.

1) Proposes to decentralize federal police into applicable cabinets ministries - good idea.

The laws applicable to each cabinet ministry can be complex and directed towards a specifc segment of the Thai population and/or businesses. Effective and professional law enforcement requires an appropriate budget, legal knowledge, police behavior, and methods of enforcement. For purposes of accountability of each ministry police force (and I don't believe every minstry needs one) there should also be an Inspector General within each ministry that reports to the PM to assure ethical and professional police behavior within the ministry as well as appropriate direction of duties by the respective ministry.

2) Proposes to decentralize federal police into applicable cabinets ministries - bad idea.

No all criminal activities may be contained within a single ministry, ie., Defense-Commerce; Foreign Affairs-Finance; Tourism&Sports-Commerce-Finance . There also become issues of standardization for enforcement policies and procedures between various ministry law enforcement agencies that could weaken federal prosecution. In order to maintain effective inter-ministry law enforcement coordination and standardization of policies and procedures, there needs to be a centralized federal law enforcement agency, ie., under the PM.

3) Decentralization of police into regional and local administrations - good idea.

The nature of regional and local populations and businesses requires more tailored-made law enforcement that is more people/business oriented. Laws tend to be more specific and numerous than those on a national level, ie., at the ministry level. Police can better focus on their responsibilities and react quicker to the law enforcement needs of the people and businesses.

4) Decentralization of police into regional and local administrations - bad idea.

See #2. Local administrations and regions need to interact on law enforcement activities and need to maintain standarized policies and procedures. So ultimately there has to be some level of administrative oversight at the federal level but not in the fashion of a direct chain of command. Election of regional and local prosecutors and chiefs of police is used by some countries to provide accountability and direction for law enforcement.

5) Independence of Police from Military control - not addressed.

As seen from recent military coups, police are drafted into enforcing coup-directed policies and potential coup-opposing law enforcement leadership removed. This is a bad idea but the solutions are beyond the ability of the CDC/NRC to truly address under the current government administration.

I give the NRC a "B" for these reform proposals.

[BestBitterPhuket]

They also needs to show a zero tolerance on police corruption. All corruption cases should be investigated by units outside the police, and penalties should be severe.

[Si Thea01]

Why must they complicate everything? Put people in charge of police who know even less about policing? If there is one capable person within the ministry make him the police minister, reform the ranks, give them a decent salary and ensure that the buck stops with the minister.

Have a decent police academy, where the recruits are trained properly and like in New South Wales, Australia, make sure the course is linked to University studies. Intelligence does not necessarily make a good police officer but it sure helps. I am not sure about the common sense aspect, that seems to be sadly lacking.

Also start purging any corrupt officers from the ranks, this will take time and must start at the top so as to show the lower ranks that the hierarchy is not untouchable and neither will they be if found to act corruptly. Am I dreaming? For the sake of this country I hope not.