New rules for ED visa

[Maestro]

For the record, the notice isseued to language schools by the RONE in Phuket, in Thai and English translation:

[Robert24]

sounds pretty bad, basically they suspect a lot of people on ED visa from language schools to be criminals and drug consumers. Unless I misunderstand it. Time for me to change visa or go to a university for language courses.

[Markphuket]

sounds pretty bad, basically they suspect a lot of people on ED visa from language schools to be criminals and drug consumers. Unless I misunderstand it. Time for me to change visa or go to a university for language courses.

reading the translation is very funny "As now we have many foreigners enrolled to learn thai language course to improve the skill of their occupation. This may lead to an opportunity of creating criminals or drugs by using the type of non immigration ed visa to study in the thai language."

So it nothing about nomads, people who dont attend classes or people suspected working on a ed visa.......... They are worried if you attend a language school. It will give us the thai language ability required to go out and be master criminals or drug lords....

I understand it same as you Robert..... But worry that Uni courses they might suspect you of worse like learning bomb making, human trafficking or terror attacks.

[puukao]

I'm trying to think this through.....If ED Visa, maybe they they you are not as rich as some other visa holders and they want them out sooner. They may be right. Maybe over 50 and no ED visa coming, since why not just do retirement and pay for classes. Learning Thai in 6 months....good luck. I think out of 50 in all my classes, maybe 3-4 would pass. that stress will build.

it's too bad, of course, since ED Visa holders should show how passionate they are about learning Thai. ah, can't go there.....

so frustrating why they make hard to stay.......Lao does have a similar language, but i'm not living there......

[nasa123]

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

Your school got the English summary of the letter they received almost correct, but arrived at the wrong conclusion.

1. The schools must change the curriculum in such manner that students are required to study not less than fours days per week, not less than two hours per session.

2. Each course of study must be completed within six months.

3. If a school fails to submit the official form confirming the change of the study schedule to the Regional Office of Non-formal Education (for which I suggest the acronym RONE, for brevity) by 30 December 2014, the office will no longer issue the letter required by the students of this school for the application for an extension of stay for the reason of study at the immigration office.

Consequently, if your school revises the curriculum as requested and if you enroll for the next course of study, the RONE will not need to refuse the letter for the immigration office, if all other documents from the school are in order.

This letter have ALL school whit ED visa in Phuket received, and a speak whit some schools in Bangkok and they get the same letter.

[nasa123]

your letter it`s from Date 28 BUT my letter it`s from 26 whay ?

Agree, Krey.

We have an official letter from Ministry of Education dated yesterday to the contrary.

That's even better than a photo of the letter. Would you be so kind as to scan the letter you have and post it here?

MOE Letter and unverified translation.

The confusion seems to be about.."... and to finish each curriculum not longer than 6 months".

And that is what it means... i.e. Basic Thai 6 months.. the continue Elementary Thai 6 months. That is one year. Then you have to leave Thailand to get new Ed Visa to continue to next curriculum and so on.

[Tokay]

This just hit Chiang Mai too. Even students already enrolled are having their schedules changed, hours added, and reduced to 6 months instead of the 1 year they paid and signed up for.

Looks like the ED ride is going to be over for a lot of people. Not sure who has the time to go to school 8 hours per week, have Thai crammed down your throat faster than you can process it, and all of the expense and time involved only buys you 6 months. Good luck to all who jump through that never ending gauntlet. For just a few more hours per week you can go to a real university and get a real degree.

[Tokay]

There is nothing in the letter from the MOE saying you cannot get another extension after the first 6 months.

Perhaps a misreading of this.

"If any school does not submit an official form to change of study schedule to your

local Education Commission by the 30 December 2014, then we need to cancel application to apply for

Non-Immigration ED VISA to your student."

I will be surprised if they allow back to back ED every 6 months. Maybe once, but an ongoing extension just doesn't make sense. That sort of defeats their purpose of thinning the ED visa herd in the first place.

Of course, I could be wrong and they may do exactly that in typical Thai fashion, but it would be silly when it is clear what they are trying to accomplish by the new changes.

[bbi1]

This just hit Chiang Mai too. Even students already enrolled are having their schedules changed, hours added, and reduced to 6 months instead of the 1 year they paid and signed up for.

Looks like the ED ride is going to be over for a lot of people. Not sure who has the time to go to school 8 hours per week, have Thai crammed down your throat faster than you can process it, and all of the expense and time involved only buys you 6 months. Good luck to all who jump through that never ending gauntlet. For just a few more hours per week you can go to a real university and get a real degree.

Why would us ED visa students not have the time to go to school 8 hours a week???

A real degree from a Thai university would require a lot more cost, investment of time & in the end of the day isn't worth the paper it's written on, unless you plan on getting a job in Thailand. Overseas it's worthless really.

[Rumblecat]

For what it's worth it seems like Ed Visas issued before the change in rules will continue to be valid until the end of their year. Just got my three month extension on Friday (only took 7 hours or so waiting around at immigration... ).

Quite an extensive interview though- all in Thai, and had to speak to Thai to another student getting an extension- a nice Japanese guy- which for some reason caused a lot of mirth and had another officer come video it- and my reading was all fine although I screwed up my writing portion of it, fair play, Thai writing is something I've devoted a lot less practice to, compared to reading and speaking. Like I can text in Thai to varying levels of success, but writing with pen and paper... it's ugly.

So the immigration officer did say that because my writing was poor (I spelt my own name fine, I screwed up spelling the name of my home country) she did consider only giving me a two month extension but gave me three month on the condition I did some work on my writing.

But all in all the interview with the immigration officer took about twenty minutes.

[bkkcanuck8]

This just hit Chiang Mai too. Even students already enrolled are having their schedules changed, hours added, and reduced to 6 months instead of the 1 year they paid and signed up for.

Looks like the ED ride is going to be over for a lot of people. Not sure who has the time to go to school 8 hours per week, have Thai crammed down your throat faster than you can process it, and all of the expense and time involved only buys you 6 months. Good luck to all who jump through that never ending gauntlet. For just a few more hours per week you can go to a real university and get a real degree.

Why would us ED visa students not have the time to go to school 8 hours a week???

A real degree from a Thai university would require a lot more cost, investment of time & in the end of the day isn't worth the paper it's written on, unless you plan on getting a job in Thailand. Overseas it's worthless really.

8 hours per week in the classroom is around just under a half-load of courses for a student (part-time student). [not including labs and homework etc.] I don't find it an unreasonable requirement. I don't necessarily understand why they have to state though that you must spread it out over 4 days since 4 hours x 2 days is easily doable for any student.

[bbi1]

For what it's worth it seems like Ed Visas issued before the change in rules will continue to be valid until the end of their year. Just got my three month extension on Friday (only took 7 hours or so waiting around at immigration... ).

Quite an extensive interview though- all in Thai, and had to speak to Thai to another student getting an extension- a nice Japanese guy- which for some reason caused a lot of mirth and had another officer come video it- and my reading was all fine although I screwed up my writing portion of it, fair play, Thai writing is something I've devoted a lot less practice to, compared to reading and speaking. Like I can text in Thai to varying levels of success, but writing with pen and paper... it's ugly.

So the immigration officer did say that because my writing was poor (I spelt my own name fine, I screwed up spelling the name of my home country) she did consider only giving me a two month extension but gave me three month on the condition I did some work on my writing.

But all in all the interview with the immigration officer took about twenty minutes.

How many months have you been here on the ED visa? Was this at Chaeng Wattana?

What exactly did they ask you for reading/writing for the speaking? This will help others prepare for the future.

[stevenl]

This just hit Chiang Mai too. Even students already enrolled are having their schedules changed, hours added, and reduced to 6 months instead of the 1 year they paid and signed up for.

Looks like the ED ride is going to be over for a lot of people. Not sure who has the time to go to school 8 hours per week, have Thai crammed down your throat faster than you can process it, and all of the expense and time involved only buys you 6 months. Good luck to all who jump through that never ending gauntlet. For just a few more hours per week you can go to a real university and get a real degree.

Why would us ED visa students not have the time to go to school 8 hours a week???

A real degree from a Thai university would require a lot more cost, investment of time & in the end of the day isn't worth the paper it's written on, unless you plan on getting a job in Thailand. Overseas it's worthless really.

8 hours per week in the classroom is around just under a half-load of courses for a student (part-time student). [not including labs and homework etc.] I don't find it an unreasonable requirement. I don't necessarily understand why they have to state though that you must spread it out over 4 days since 4 hours x 2 days is easily doable for any student.

They spread it over 4 days to make working illegally more difficult.

[bbi1]

This just hit Chiang Mai too. Even students already enrolled are having their schedules changed, hours added, and reduced to 6 months instead of the 1 year they paid and signed up for.

Looks like the ED ride is going to be over for a lot of people. Not sure who has the time to go to school 8 hours per week, have Thai crammed down your throat faster than you can process it, and all of the expense and time involved only buys you 6 months. Good luck to all who jump through that never ending gauntlet. For just a few more hours per week you can go to a real university and get a real degree.

Why would us ED visa students not have the time to go to school 8 hours a week???

A real degree from a Thai university would require a lot more cost, investment of time & in the end of the day isn't worth the paper it's written on, unless you plan on getting a job in Thailand. Overseas it's worthless really.

8 hours per week in the classroom is around just under a half-load of courses for a student (part-time student). [not including labs and homework etc.] I don't find it an unreasonable requirement. I don't necessarily understand why they have to state though that you must spread it out over 4 days since 4 hours x 2 days is easily doable for any student.

They spread it over 4 days to make working illegally more difficult.

How??? Someone who works a 9-5 job can very easily put in 2hrs a day of study. Putting in 4hrs in one day would be a lot more impossible for them.

[stevenl]

How??? Someone who works a 9-5 job can very easily put in 2hrs a day of study. Putting in 4hrs in one day would be a lot more impossible for them.

Think e.g. of being a guide on a tour. Much easier to work 5 days full time and on the 2 days off go to school for 4 hours than having to go to school every day.

[Rumblecat]

For what it's worth it seems like Ed Visas issued before the change in rules will continue to be valid until the end of their year. Just got my three month extension on Friday (only took 7 hours or so waiting around at immigration... ).

Quite an extensive interview though- all in Thai, and had to speak to Thai to another student getting an extension- a nice Japanese guy- which for some reason caused a lot of mirth and had another officer come video it- and my reading was all fine although I screwed up my writing portion of it, fair play, Thai writing is something I've devoted a lot less practice to, compared to reading and speaking. Like I can text in Thai to varying levels of success, but writing with pen and paper... it's ugly.

So the immigration officer did say that because my writing was poor (I spelt my own name fine, I screwed up spelling the name of my home country) she did consider only giving me a two month extension but gave me three month on the condition I did some work on my writing.

But all in all the interview with the immigration officer took about twenty minutes.

How many months have you been here on the ED visa? Was this at Chaeng Wattana?

What exactly did they ask you for reading/writing for the speaking? This will help others prepare for the future.

I'm on my third ED visa so that's three years. Although I'm not sure they were aware of that when we started speaking- she was flicking through the passport but we'd already started talking.

For the speaking it was a general conversation with the immigration officer. How long have lived here, where do you live, do you work here at all, where's your school, do you like it- then with the Japanese student me and him were just chatting normally in Thai- about our respective countries, about families etc. That was all unscripted though. I guess they just wanted to see if we could hold a conversation in Thai (and also to amuse themselves as someone filmed it, chuckling away).

Reading was barely touched upon- there was something in a form I'd forgotten to sign- she pointed out where I and to sign- I read the thai word under the signature bar as I was signing it and I guess that was enough to satisfy. So can't really help with what they'll ask to read.

Writing- asked me to write my name and my home country.

All in all it's pretty easy if you've been attending classes- I have been skimping a bit on the writing so I screwed up half of that.

[krey]

before this rule I was actually going 5 times a week, 2 times I go to my Visa School and 3 times a week I was going to a private teacher outside

of the school. I like the one on one and he was a good teacher

I had to tell him last week that I have to drop him to once a week, since like many my school has gone to 4 times a week. It is too bad as I was learning more from the one on one

but I will need to be tracked at the other school for immigration purposes, so i have to go the 4 times a week at the visa school

yes I could go 7 times a week but I want to do other things besides school every single day:)

and as a note it isnt just 8 hours when you think about it, for some you got to travel to the school and each night there could be homework or self study

I would say for me it is more like 20 to 25 hours a week, any extra twice a week will add 2 hours just on driving time going back and forth.

Edited December 15, 2014 by krey

[Timwin]

Thailand will end up losing money with this idiotic harassment treatment. Just like with the tourist visa hassle last summer. 20-25 percent less tourists during the first 9 months of this year, depending on location.

You basically pay about 60000 Baht per year to be treated and supervised like a god damn parolee every 90 days. The majority of ED visa holders are one year students and 4 hours per week gave them a nice opportunity to live in Thailand for a while. Most schools offer only 3 years max anyway, so it is hardly a long term solution for illegal workers. It was a nice win-win-win for everybody involved.

[Robert24]

@Timwin: I don't think the changes about the ED visas from private language schools will make a big difference on the Thai economy. I agree with you it doesn't make sense but no point in arguing about that. Things change, you need to adapt and change visa. Look at ED visas from universities, look at the Elite visa, look at work permit options, business investments or for short term options at tourist visas. If you are above 50, go on retirement visa.

But time to move on and change visa. You saw what Phuket immigration wrote about ED visas from language schools. Basically they suspect many people on this type visa to conduct criminal activities or be drug consumers. The message couldn't be clearer.

[paz]

How??? Someone who works a 9-5 job can very easily put in 2hrs a day of study. Putting in 4hrs in one day would be a lot more impossible for them.

"very easily" ? You're talking this nonsense again. After 8 hours of work further attention for two more is impossible let alone the logistics. Good for you if you're different.

[Asiantravel]

How??? Someone who works a 9-5 job can very easily put in 2hrs a day of study. Putting in 4hrs in one day would be a lot more impossible for them.

"very easily" ? You're talking this nonsense again. After 8 hours of work further attention for two more is impossible let alone the logistics. Good for you if you're different.

" further attention for two more is impossible "

It's you that is talking nonsense. For as long as I can remember there has been night classes available to adults who work during the day time but want to study for a degree at night

http://www.learn-source.com/night_school.html

[paz]

It's you that is talking nonsense. For as long as I can remember there has been night classes available to adults who work during the day time but want to study for a degree at night

Sure the classes are there and the will of students too. Again, if you have an attention span of 14 hours a days and the ability of moving from a place to another almost instantaneously.. good for you.

[itsuptome]

@Timwin: I don't think the changes about the ED visas from private language schools will make a big difference on the Thai economy. I agree with you it doesn't make sense but no point in arguing about that. Things change, you need to adapt and change visa. Look at ED visas from universities, look at the Elite visa, look at work permit options, business investments or for short term options at tourist visas. If you are above 50, go on retirement visa.

The direct impact on the economy won't be large. It will amount to less businesses for non-formal schools, some will close.

The indirect impact is another story. Everyone who's had anything to do with the ED visa (or even just followed the story) will come away feeling like Thailand believes that foreigners are all criminals and drug dealers. Some of those people who would have invested in Thailand down the road, or found jobs here and brought their skills to the Thai economy, will take their time, skills and money elsewhere. There are plenty of places to invest in Southeast Asia now and Thailand is the only one which treats you like a criminal for visiting with the purpose of immersing yourself in its culture and language.

The Thai government's philosophy on immigrants is similar to Japan's -- it basically doesn't want them. How well has that worked for Japan? Japan has the worst population crisis of any developed country.

A lot of the discussion on Thaivisa (and apparently the government!) revolves around nefarious whoremongering drug lord boiler room lackey farangs on fraudulent ED visas. Maybe a lot of Thaivisa members have friends like that? I don't know. I haven't met any at my school. There are people with law degrees, people with 15 years of IT experience, a couple students from Ivy Leagues here on an exchange program of some sort. And yeah also some backpacker types, who aren't hurting anyone as far as I can tell, and who knows whether they have professional qualifications or money or not. No, I'm not gonna pretend everyone has perfect class attendance, but it's certainly not a visa mill.

Painting them all with the same brush and calling them all drug lords is fantastically stupid. This is a textbook case of how to discourage foreign investment and participation in your country. It's a textbook case of how to make your country poor and isolated.

By Thailand's own admission, it is a country with economic challenges. It's a middle income country that wants to become high income. Where's the money going to come from if not foreign investment? Who's going to do the work when Thais don't yet have the skills? Since Thais don't speak a lot of English, won't that take foreigners coming here and learning Thai? They actually have some good programs for encouraging investment and knowledge transfer (BOI, which they talk about tightening up every year) but who's going to invest here if they get treated like a criminal when they try to learn the language?

A government either embraces immigration or rejects it. I'm sure there will be many xenophobic old dudes who will read this and rage because they think their own country has been "overrun by those damn Muzzies" or something, but the fact is that immigration brings economic growth. Until I stop seeing hookers and limbless beggars all over Bangkok I say that growth is what Thailand needs.

But yeah, those damn backpackers skipping their Thai classes, they're the REAL problem, right?

[Robert24]

@itsuptome: I agree with most of what you said. But I don't think complaining will help, and I don't think the changes to the ED visas from private schools will go away. There is no lobby behind this group, i.e. unlike tourists where the government is actively trying to make Thailand more attractive.

Now with regards to the comparison to Japan - I don't think you can compare Thailand with Japan. I understand what you are trying to say but Japan is very different from Thailand in many ways. When it comes to foreigners, they view them very different than Thais do. Also I don't think there is much foreign investment in Japan, whereas in Thailand you have significant foreign investments, you have entire industries that have made Thailand their manufacturing hub, i.e. car manufacturing, electronics etc. Also the demographic problem is a far bigger problem in Japan than Thailand, debt to GDP ratio of the government in Japan at 250% compared to small debt in Thailand.

My view is as mentioned before, consider moving on to a different visa, be it ED visa from a university, tourist visas for short term stays, Elite visa if you have the money, retirement visa if you are above 50, marriage visa if you are married etc etc.

[jspill]

I don't see where itsuptome is 'complaining', he's just expressing his opinions on a government decision. Complaining is a poor choice of word, has connotations of whining and resentment. He can calmly pass comment on an issue without it being 'complaining', bitter or expecting it will 'help' anything.

I also don't read anywhere in his post that he's a student? Maybe he isn't affected by this, just passing comment. Actually his saying 'painting them all with the same brush' instead of 'us' suggests he isn't a student. Neither is Timwin. I don't think he needs generic advice like consider getting married or turning 50.

[stevenl]

@Timwin: I don't think the changes about the ED visas from private language schools will make a big difference on the Thai economy. I agree with you it doesn't make sense but no point in arguing about that. Things change, you need to adapt and change visa. Look at ED visas from universities, look at the Elite visa, look at work permit options, business investments or for short term options at tourist visas. If you are above 50, go on retirement visa.

The direct impact on the economy won't be large. It will amount to less businesses for non-formal schools, some will close.

The indirect impact is another story. Everyone who's had anything to do with the ED visa (or even just followed the story) will come away feeling like Thailand believes that foreigners are all criminals and drug dealers. Some of those people who would have invested in Thailand down the road, or found jobs here and brought their skills to the Thai economy, will take their time, skills and money elsewhere. There are plenty of places to invest in Southeast Asia now and Thailand is the only one which treats you like a criminal for visiting with the purpose of immersing yourself in its culture and language.

The Thai government's philosophy on immigrants is similar to Japan's -- it basically doesn't want them. How well has that worked for Japan? Japan has the worst population crisis of any developed country.

A lot of the discussion on Thaivisa (and apparently the government!) revolves around nefarious whoremongering drug lord boiler room lackey farangs on fraudulent ED visas. Maybe a lot of Thaivisa members have friends like that? I don't know. I haven't met any at my school. There are people with law degrees, people with 15 years of IT experience, a couple students from Ivy Leagues here on an exchange program of some sort. And yeah also some backpacker types, who aren't hurting anyone as far as I can tell, and who knows whether they have professional qualifications or money or not. No, I'm not gonna pretend everyone has perfect class attendance, but it's certainly not a visa mill.

Painting them all with the same brush and calling them all drug lords is fantastically stupid. This is a textbook case of how to discourage foreign investment and participation in your country. It's a textbook case of how to make your country poor and isolated.

By Thailand's own admission, it is a country with economic challenges. It's a middle income country that wants to become high income. Where's the money going to come from if not foreign investment? Who's going to do the work when Thais don't yet have the skills? Since Thais don't speak a lot of English, won't that take foreigners coming here and learning Thai? They actually have some good programs for encouraging investment and knowledge transfer (BOI, which they talk about tightening up every year) but who's going to invest here if they get treated like a criminal when they try to learn the language?

A government either embraces immigration or rejects it. I'm sure there will be many xenophobic old dudes who will read this and rage because they think their own country has been "overrun by those damn Muzzies" or something, but the fact is that immigration brings economic growth. Until I stop seeing hookers and limbless beggars all over Bangkok I say that growth is what Thailand needs.

But yeah, those damn backpackers skipping their Thai classes, they're the REAL problem, right?

Statements like that don't do your credibility any good.

And in the rest of your argument you're missing out on the real reasons for the present problems with the ED visa, which have been indicated many times already.

[papatango]

Continuing from my post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781616-1-year-ed-visa-nope-its-not-true-anymore/

Seems BKK & Phuket don't have 1 year ED Visas anymore. Would be good to hear from Walen the forum sponsor what he has to say. According to his site 1 year ED visas are still on:

Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year.

It is possible that students do two courses of 6 months in duration one after another. According to the present law they are not required to leave the country after 6 months if they continue their studies so they can stay here one year straight on an ED visa if they continue learning. After one year they will need to leave Thailand and apply for a new ED visa.

Walen School

Good evening Mac

I went today to get my documents for next week extension and the documents havent been processed then I end up without any doc. The staff told me that anyway my ED Visa is for 6 months and end up on Feb 4th ( I got my ED visa on August last year). You are saying that we are not required to leave the country after 6 months if we continue study....l think we have to sort it out tomorrow as I m really wondering who to listen (the staff in asoke saying something, the manager something else and now reading you...

See you tomorrow at Asoke office then, I will call the office before, hoping you get my msg

[MacWalen]

They just changed it in Bkk. A few days ago.

[bbi1]

Continuing from my post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781616-1-year-ed-visa-nope-its-not-true-anymore/

Seems BKK & Phuket don't have 1 year ED Visas anymore. Would be good to hear from Walen the forum sponsor what he has to say. According to his site 1 year ED visas are still on:

Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year.

It is possible that students do two courses of 6 months in duration one after another. According to the present law they are not required to leave the country after 6 months if they continue their studies so they can stay here one year straight on an ED visa if they continue learning. After one year they will need to leave Thailand and apply for a new ED visa.

Walen School

Good evening Mac

I went today to get my documents for next week extension and the documents havent been processed then I end up without any doc. The staff told me that anyway my ED Visa is for 6 months and end up on Feb 4th ( I got my ED visa on August last year). You are saying that we are not required to leave the country after 6 months if we continue study....l think we have to sort it out tomorrow as I m really wondering who to listen (the staff in asoke saying something, the manager something else and now reading you...

See you tomorrow at Asoke office then, I will call the office before, hoping you get my msg

Hmmm, I remember Mr Walen posting about 2 months ago that the ED visa allowed continuous stay in the country when I said that my school informed me every 6 months we need to leave the country & get another ED visa every 6 months. Has the rules really "just" changed in BKK or a few months ago?

[MacWalen]

Correct. Immigration started to make an issue just a few days ago.