Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[thailandchilli]

boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:

sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar

Weird sense of humour..oh well

the one on left could be Mon's cop friend (the one shown with Mon, in the photo taken by Sean in convenience store), am not sure.

No, it isn't, but he has to be one of the regulars at the AC bar. I've seen a photo of the guy on the left before. Don't know his name though.

How can you be so sure the two are not the same? The photo of Mon and his cop friend were taken from low angle, looking up. The photo of the two men standing was taken from a higher angle, looking down. The first photo was a worried nervous man, the 2nd photo was a relaxed, bemused man. I'd like to see both photos side-by side, to get a better assessment. Of course, even it were the same man, it's moot, except the 2nd shot (of the standing, relaxed man) has him holding a hoe, as if mocking the crime. ....yet even mocking a murder is not a crime. It will take a lot of high quality sleuthing to nail the real perps of the crime, and thus far (since the replacement head cop was instated) Thai cops have done nothing in that regard - except covering-up and hiding/destroying evidence.

Its the ears, not big enough boomer

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:16, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Jan 2015 - 18:54, said:

boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:

sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar

Weird sense of humour..oh well

the one on left could be Mon's cop friend (the one shown with Mon, in the photo taken by Sean in convenience store), am not sure.

No, it isn't, but he has to be one of the regulars at the AC bar. I've seen a photo of the guy on the left before. Don't know his name though.

How can you be so sure the two are not the same? The photo of Mon and his cop friend were taken from low angle, looking up. The photo of the two men standing was taken from a higher angle, looking down. The first photo was a worried nervous man, the 2nd photo was a relaxed, bemused man. I'd like to see both photos side-by side, to get a better assessment. Of course, even it were the same man, it's moot, except the 2nd shot (of the standing, relaxed man) has him holding a hoe, as if mocking the crime. ....yet even mocking a murder is not a crime. It will take a lot of high quality sleuthing to nail the real perps of the crime, and thus far (since the replacement head cop was instated) Thai cops have done nothing in that regard - except covering-up and hiding/destroying evidence.

Well, here's Mr. Big Ears cop. Spot the difference?

[boomerangutang]

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar ( 68 likes)

Weird sense of humour..oh well

Also, that hoe is not at all like a regular hoe, or the hoe which was used at the murder scene.

It has been ground to more of a spoon-shape (almost pointy), and made shiny. A real hoe is squared off at the blade. Do these guys get a perverse thrill from mocking a brutal murder? Luckily, my daughter is past the age of going to 3rd world country party beaches (with date-rape drugs and mosquito coil drinks), but if any young pretty farang gals ask me whether it's safe to go visit southern Thailand's beach resorts, you can guess my answer.

A couple very cute American gals came here, to my farm in northern Thailand, to visit - a few years ago. They had just been to Ko Pha Gnan's Full moon party. As they were leaving, on a rented motorbike at 2 am, two Thai guys pulled up alongside and grabbed their tote bags. Luckily the girls were athletic (both were contenders to be on the US's Winter Olympic team), and they kept their bags and didn't spill down the steep embankment alongside the hill. When they got to their g.h. rooms, they found their packs had been stolen. the Brit owner of the g.h. yelled angrily at them, and compelled them not to report the thefts to police (it would besmirch the reputation of his g.h.). Whoopee, let's send our sons and daughters to go party at Thailand's beach resorts!

[IslandLover]

This fb page could be of interest. A couple of posts in October are intriguing.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003939306416#!/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

[thailandchilli]

This fb page could be of interest. A couple of posts in October are intriguing.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003939306416#!/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

Some cracks appearing in the dynamics of the island locals and their loyalties to the families and also to justice, its clear he refers to the B2 scapegoats

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:16, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Jan 2015 - 18:54, said:

boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:

sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar

Weird sense of humour..oh well

the one on left could be Mon's cop friend (the one shown with Mon, in the photo taken by Sean in convenience store), am not sure.

No, it isn't, but he has to be one of the regulars at the AC bar. I've seen a photo of the guy on the left before. Don't know his name though.

How can you be so sure the two are not the same? The photo of Mon and his cop friend were taken from low angle, looking up. The photo of the two men standing was taken from a higher angle, looking down. The first photo was a worried nervous man, the 2nd photo was a relaxed, bemused man. I'd like to see both photos side-by side, to get a better assessment. Of course, even it were the same man, it's moot, except the 2nd shot (of the standing, relaxed man) has him holding a hoe, as if mocking the crime. ....yet even mocking a murder is not a crime. It will take a lot of high quality sleuthing to nail the real perps of the crime, and thus far (since the replacement head cop was instated) Thai cops have done nothing in that regard - except covering-up and hiding/destroying evidence.

Think this might be the guy. He's a bartender at the Sunset bar.

https://www.facebook.com/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all#!/bass.rungrang?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:52, said:

IslandLover, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:44, said:

This fb page could be of interest. A couple of posts in October are intriguing.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003939306416#!/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

Some cracks appearing in the dynamics of the island locals and their loyalties to the families and also to justice, its clear he refers to the B2 scapegoats

The Bing translation is pretty dire but I got the gist of it.

[greenchair]

boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:16, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Jan 2015 - 18:54, said:

boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:boomerangutang, on 07 Jan 2015 - 15:19, said:

sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:sabaitoo, on 07 Jan 2015 - 01:02, said:

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar

Weird sense of humour..oh well

the one on left could be Mon's cop friend (the one shown with Mon, in the photo taken by Sean in convenience store), am not sure.

No, it isn't, but he has to be one of the regulars at the AC bar. I've seen a photo of the guy on the left before. Don't know his name though.

How can you be so sure the two are not the same? The photo of Mon and his cop friend were taken from low angle, looking up. The photo of the two men standing was taken from a higher angle, looking down. The first photo was a worried nervous man, the 2nd photo was a relaxed, bemused man. I'd like to see both photos side-by side, to get a better assessment. Of course, even it were the same man, it's moot, except the 2nd shot (of the standing, relaxed man) has him holding a hoe, as if mocking the crime. ....yet even mocking a murder is not a crime. It will take a lot of high quality sleuthing to nail the real perps of the crime, and thus far (since the replacement head cop was instated) Thai cops have done nothing in that regard - except covering-up and hiding/destroying evidence.

Think this might be the guy. He's a bartender at the Sunset bar.

https://www.facebook.com/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all#!/bass.rungrang?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

This fb was very interesting. And look at the blonde wig.

One things for sure.

This guy likes blondes.

[loonodingle]

Lets Not Forget The Title Of This Post is

"Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing"

How can they say this.......Have they seen the Police Statement??? Surely Not. If they did then why would have made this announcement.

They have been Misinformed... What can we do as a group is the question?

Well we could make their friends aware of what the truth is. For one. We have the letter. I have spoken to Maya Foa at Reprieve and asked her to call me.

She has confirmed its Genuine. If your unsure it has her email on it send her a mail ( KT4 )

So what does everyone think.

You can sit pulling stills of the snippets of video the Newspaper channels show for years but it will not change a thing. The Thai police have hours of it not just a few seconds here and there not going to give it all to any of you on here.

The only chance we have got to make a difference is in the UK. Raise awareness of the fact that the Met done no tests nothing you have all read the letter I guess.

Some Potential people who we should contact

1. Friends of the deceased.
2. Local MP's................... Don't forget its an election soon so not only CON-Servative MP's like Brandon in Yarmouth but his opponents who should hold the UK government to task.
3. News organisations in the local area.
4. Any groups that the victims belonged to.
5. Number 10 email
6. Hugo Swire FCO

You can sit with aching arms splitting movies all day long but it will be fruitless. The B2 need an Independent DNA test. A thorough independent verification of evidence by 3rd Party detectives, which is what David Cameron led us to Believe was going to happen. We cant make them do this. BUT The family's can. Friends of David Hannah can. Last weekend they had a day for Hannah near Yarmouth. These are People who care about Hannah for example. All these people should be made aware of our governments failings in this case.

Talk is CHEAP Mr Cameron....

[boomerangutang]

For some tech reason, the letter (above) doesn't enlarge for me. As for what loonodingle mentions, ...nothing will surprise me - not even indications that Brit officials are in cahoots with Thai officials re; the cover-up / frame-up. The Brits, for their part, can always hide behind the soggy excuse: "Well, that's what Thai officials told us." Hello Brit experts: The first thing you ought to know about Thailand, in relation to crime investigations, is that the truth is often buried under a pile of official-looking bullcrap. In Thailand, there are no quaint sayings like, "justice is blind" or "crime doesn't pay". In Thailand, crime pays, but you've got to be a VIP or police chief, to be at the top of the pipeline for payments. In Thailand, telling a lie, in official circles, is as easy as taking a pee.

[loonodingle]

For some tech reason, the letter (above) doesn't enlarge for me. As for what loonodingle mentions, ...nothing will surprise me - not even indications that Brit officials are in cahoots with Thai officials re; the cover-up / frame-up. The Brits, for their part, can always hide behind the soggy excuse: "Well, that's what Thai officials told us." Hello Brit experts: The first thing you ought to know about Thailand, in relation to crime investigations, is that the truth is often buried under a pile of official-looking bullcrap. In Thailand, there are no quaint sayings like, "justice is blind" or "crime doesn't pay". In Thailand, crime pays, but you've got to be a VIP or police chief, to be at the top of the pipeline for payments. In Thailand, telling a lie, in official circles, is as easy as taking a pee.

Hi try on here then. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=379223302258602&set=o.596740650403664&type=1&theater&notif_t=like

[loonodingle]

Seans Thai Trip

[boomerangutang]

Thanks for the collage. Further indications, if any were needed, that the AC bar (its regulars, it's atmosphere) is key to finding out what really happened the night of the crime. And no surprise, to any reasonable people, why Thai investigators are avoiding the AC bar scenario and its regulars - like they're avoiding Ebola.

[phuketandsee]

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

[Strangebrew]

Need I say more?

[BritTim]

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

What can the British police and government be thinking?

They are thinking about wider Thai/UK relations. These Burmese kids are just sacrificial lambs. In helping to refute the frame-up, the UK authorities would upset powerful interests in this country. The British government is not willing to risk that simply to avoid a couple of young Burmese kids potentially being unjustly put to death.

[loonodingle]

And the plot thickens... Nothing Surprises me anymore. ..

[DM07]

If that is true, they should hang their head in shame!

...which - of course- they won't!

Fair and transparent my behind!

Edited March 2, 2015 by DM07

[loonodingle]

[phuketandsee]

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

What can the British police and government be thinking?

They are thinking about wider Thai/UK relations. These Burmese kids are just sacrificial lambs. In helping to refute the frame-up, the UK authorities would upset powerful interests in this country. The British government is not willing to risk that simply to avoid a couple of young Burmese kids potentially being unjustly put to death.

Sadly you are correct

[JLCrab]

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

From The Guardian article linked above:

" ... under Thai law the prosecution is not obliged to divulge its evidence in advance."

There have been numerous references in the current case as to how unfair this is to the defense. I have thought about why this 'non-discovery' provision is the procedure in Thailand.,

This is my guess: In most criminal cases there probably isn't enough evidence on either side to make any difference. However, in some major cases, where the defendants were powerful figures with substantial resources, when they were provided with evidence held by the prosecution, the defendants were able to bribe, pay-off, or otherwise intimidate (or worse) the witnesses or corrupt evidence before the case came to trial.

The Thai criminal procedure law was then structured such that the prosecution was not required to inform the defendants and their counsel of evidence held against the defendants in advance of the actual trial.

Edited March 2, 2015 by JLCrab

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 02 Mar 2015 - 10:19, said:

phuketandsee, on 02 Mar 2015 - 03:37, said:

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

From The Guardian article linked above:

" ... under Thai law the prosecution is not obliged to divulge its evidence in advance."

There have been numerous references in the current case as to how unfair this is to the defense. I have thought about why this 'non-discovery' provision is the procedure in Thailand.,

This is my guess: In most criminal cases there probably isn't enough evidence on either side to make any difference. However, in some major cases, where the defendants were powerful figures with substantial resources, when they were provided with evidence held by the prosecution, the defendants were able to bribe, pay-off, or otherwise intimidate (or worse) the witnesses or corrupt evidence before the case came to trial.

The Thai criminal procedure law was then structured such that the prosecution was not required to inform the defendants and their counsel of evidence held against the defendants in advance of the actual trial.

I don't think the B2 (or their lawyers) are in a position to bribe, pay off or intimidate anybody. And since when did this non-disclosure of prosecution evidence hinder rich defendants anyway? They invariably get off unless the case is political.

[geriatrickid]

One of the statements reproduced in full here:

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-12-05/the-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-millerback-police-investigation/

Doesn't quite match the nation's report.

It's a lot more restrained in fact.

One doesn't even know if the "evidence" shared by the Thai authorities is reliable. Unfortunately, this is a country where the forensic authorities have minimal credibility.

A grieving family who want justice for their murdered loved ones is susceptible to manipulation by less than honourable authorities.

[IslandLover]

geriatrickid, on 03 Mar 2015 - 02:16, said:

Bluespunk, on 06 Dec 2014 - 00:51, said:

householder, on 06 Dec 2014 - 00:38, said:

One of the statements reproduced in full here:

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-12-05/the-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-millerback-police-investigation/

Doesn't quite match the nation's report.

It's a lot more restrained in fact.

One doesn't even know if the "evidence" shared by the Thai authorities is reliable. Unfortunately, this is a country where the forensic authorities have minimal credibility.

A grieving family who want justice for their murdered loved ones is susceptible to manipulation by less than honourable authorities.

I just read your post in another thread concerning the Canadian coroner's report into the deaths of the Belanger sisters on Koh Phi Phi in 2012. Truly shocking. It raises questions in my mind about the veracity of the autopsies conducted in Thailand on the Koh Tao victims and their insistence that Witheridge and Miller were killed by the same weapon.

[JLCrab]

JLCrab, on 02 Mar 2015 - 10:19, said:

phuketandsee, on 02 Mar 2015 - 03:37, said:

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

From The Guardian article linked above:

" ... under Thai law the prosecution is not obliged to divulge its evidence in advance."

There have been numerous references in the current case as to how unfair this is to the defense. I have thought about why this 'non-discovery' provision is the procedure in Thailand.,

This is my guess: In most criminal cases there probably isn't enough evidence on either side to make any difference. However, in some major cases, where the defendants were powerful figures with substantial resources, when they were provided with evidence held by the prosecution, the defendants were able to bribe, pay-off, or otherwise intimidate (or worse) the witnesses or corrupt evidence before the case came to trial.

The Thai criminal procedure law was then structured such that the prosecution was not required to inform the defendants and their counsel of evidence held against the defendants in advance of the actual trial.

I don't think the B2 (or their lawyers) are in a position to bribe, pay off or intimidate anybody. And since when did this non-disclosure of prosecution evidence hinder rich defendants anyway? They invariably get off unless the case is political.

I offered what I believe is a plausible explanation for why the criminal procedure law in Thailand is structured the way it is. If you have a different explanation, then up-to-you.

[greenchair]

Will not forget ????

[greenchair]

This fb page could be of interest. A couple of posts in October are intriguing.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003939306416#!/immymumu?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

And refers to a half brother. Which usually is similar to cousin in thai style.

[Dogmatix]

Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

Truly shocking news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/01/capital-punishment-concerns-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-murder-thailand

What can the British police and government be thinking?

What can the British police and government be thinking?

They are thinking about wider Thai/UK relations. These Burmese kids are just sacrificial lambs. In helping to refute the frame-up, the UK authorities would upset powerful interests in this country. The British government is not willing to risk that simply to avoid a couple of young Burmese kids potentially being unjustly put to death.

Sadly you are correct

With all Cameron's government cuts British embassies, which at best have only ever been poor relations to their American cousins, are reduced to mere trade and investment posts staffed by clever chaps with nil experience in business. The British Embassy in Bangkok is not currently allowed to sell to the Thai military following the coup but greases up to them at every opportunity in the hope of getting some business in future. KPIs will be scored like this by the FCO and its political masters in London.

1. Saving two young Burmese punks (who just happen to be innocent) from the gallows - KPI 0.

2. Currying favour with police chief installed by military to protect its interests which may ultimately result in some nice orders - KPI 1,000++++.

(In case you hadn't noticed, Burmese ceased to qualify for British protection in 1948.)

Go figure.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dogmatix

[Strangebrew]

In honoring families request I will not comment on this article I hope others do the same and Also avoid spending or sending a single satang to the Island where this took place. Speak with your wallet to show your disgust to this circus. RIP David and Hannah You will not be forgotten.

[boomerangutang]

is this topic open?