Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[Delcavom]

"Or maybe you suspect they will be found guilty by the judge"s" because they are likely the ones who committed this crime and the evidence to date suggests this. "

And the evidence to date suggests: Fluoride is good for your teeth, sugar is not harmful, and Lee Harvey Oswald is responsible.

[Delcavom]

"The mark of a man is not being afraid to admit he is wrong. "

Agreed. And before we go saying that other people are wrong let's take a little time and get some perspective. This is one article from the family and hardly damning evidence.

It is statements from groups of people who are much much more informed on the case than any of us and who don't have any ulterior motives beyond seeing the right people held responsible for this crime. It is from people with first hand information from UK authorities who have examined both the validity of the case as well as the evidence in the case. Why don't we stop trying to find ways to discount the importance of these statements.

It is statements from people who might be misled. Do you not think there are some politics in involved with such a case? I dont imagine you have ever worked for the government?

[JohnThailandJohn]

"The mark of a man is not being afraid to admit he is wrong. "

Agreed. And before we go saying that other people are wrong let's take a little time and get some perspective. This is one article from the family and hardly damning evidence.

It is statements from groups of people who are much much more informed on the case than any of us and who don't have any ulterior motives beyond seeing the right people held responsible for this crime. It is from people with first hand information from UK authorities who have examined both the validity of the case as well as the evidence in the case. Why don't we stop trying to find ways to discount the importance of these statements.

It is statements from people who might be misled. Do you not think there are some politics in involved with such a case? I dont imagine you have ever worked for the government?

UK officials have put pressure on the UK Investigators and the investigators have gone along with this to mislead the victim's family? Are you for real?

Who knows maybe you are right and it is not just the numerous Thai officials and departments involved in the conspiracy but also the UK government and the UK investigators. We all know how powerful a tiny island headsman can be.

I don't image you have come back to reality yet.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[DennisF]

Like many on here I am not fully convinced by either side of the argument.

It is apparent that the investigation was far from efficient and, to my mind, the crime was committed by

more than 2 people, as the RTP indicated.

If the B2 are guilty, and that by no means is certain, then they probably had accomplices.

The scary thing is that there are possibly murderers and rapists still wandering around the island.

Until everything is resolved I certainly would not be comfortable with visiting the island.

There has been no reports on the last 2 so called suspicious deaths there.

[alantheembalmer]

Apparently, the file, according to the BP this week, is 1,000 pages long. Could anyone reasonably be expected to come to any conclusions without a very experienced team of lawyers on hand to provide detailed analysis?

[Delcavom]

UK officials have put pressure on the UK Investigators and the investigators have gone along with this to mislead the victim's family? Are you for real?We all know how powerful a tiny island headsman can be.

I don't image you have come back to reality yet.

Be insulting John. It's okay. I got you are taking this personally.

You are on your personal mission to PROVE that conspiracies are crap. Good luck with that one.

You dont know the position the UK investigators were in. You also do not know what assumptions were made. You did not collect semen samples and test them. You were not there to witness the murders. You do not know people involved in the case. You are making many assumptions that can be as equally wrong as all these, "conspiracy theorists".

Have you ever paid off a cop in Thailand? Does it happen?

Have you ever been witness to fleeting justice here?

I have.

And if that is the case it gives reason to have a reasonable doubt about what we have been told.

This case is not about your revenge against, "conspiracy theorists". It is about the lives of two young Burmese men who might have their lives taken unfairly.

[Strangebrew]

I look at it this way I wasn't there but going by what the RTP has been saying and changing the story on a whim it makes one wonder if what they say say is fact or fiction. I'm not a DNA expert but I did have a DNA test done the results didn't come back before sample was sent it took 3 to 7 days.

[GeckosDiving]

I just hope the families haven't been reading the absolute crap that went on for thousands of posts from the conspiracy theorists on here and if not grizzly photos then the description of the crime scene in graphic detail.

I said it before and I will say again shame on all of you that know as much about this case as me and that's f&$K all.

Bloody disgraceful!

Pauley want a cracker !!

[Arkady]

Deleted by Arkady

[simple1]

Any links to this FO statement?

probably not. They love speaking o behalf of others.

In the Samui Times publication of the FCO statement issued on the behalf of the victims families, it clearly refers to an email issued by the FCO to the media with the statements.

Note to Editors 1. The family request privacy and no direct contact from the media at this time.

Newsdesk - Media Office l Foreign and Commonwealth Office

http://www.samuitimes.com/family-statements-issued-behalf-families-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

Throughout this topic many posts have totally ignored the victims families request that:

"Further speculation should be put aside until all the evidence is made public and appropriate conclusions can be drawn".

[Delcavom]

I just hope the families haven't been reading the absolute crap that went on for thousands of posts from the conspiracy theorists on here and if not grizzly photos then the description of the crime scene in graphic detail.

I said it before and I will say again shame on all of you that know as much about this case as me and that's f&$K all.

Bloody disgraceful!

You are aware that innocent people have been convicted in the past right? Both in the States and in the UK. Do you hold Thailand's justice system to be above in judicial standards or ethics?

[jdinasia]

Theres a perfect example of someone taking excerpts out of context to suit themselves.

Absolutely nothing out of context.

[johnnytuc]

I have no idea whether the B2 are innocent or guilty, but JD you are so wrong this is Thailand and we all know you are guilty until you prove innocent,

[Fat Haggis]

Those who harp on about the families wishes but yet still feel compelled to rebuf and rebuke posts are the worst type of hypocrite going.

You're every bit as guilty of not respecting the families wishes by constantly responding.

The families nor the moderators need your constant holier than thou attitudes by criticising others about privacy.

If you want to respect the families, refrain from responding !!!

[bkkgooner]

I have a gut feeling this is going to end with the two lads breaking down and confessing.....yet again.

If this was done through the foreign office then it seems likely that the family have had the entire case explained to them in a full manner and that there is key evidence being held back.

Anyway the British police report will tell us everything when it gets released.

[boomerangutang]

Those who harp on about the families wishes but yet still feel compelled to rebuf and rebuke posts are the worst type of hypocrite going.

You're every bit as guilty of not respecting the families wishes by constantly responding.

The families nor the moderators need your constant holier than thou attitudes by criticising others about privacy.

If you want to respect the families, refrain from responding !!!

For starters, I haven't harped on about anything except seeking justice for the victims and getting rapists/murderers locked up. This case has become fodder for public debate, like it or not. Most, if not all the posters are seeking justice. Silence won't accomplish much toward that goal, particularly if public statements only reflect Thai officialdom's side of the issue.

[tingtongtourist]

But are the right people standing trial?

The answer to your question is at the top of this page, stated by people who are more involved in the case and have been informed better about the investigation, than anyone on this forum will ever be.

Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

As much respect as I have for the parents, they are still laypeople!!

And the headline doesn't really reflect what are said in the statements!!

The statements are as vague as a speech by a speaker, who don't want to offend either side.

Politics or diplomacy comes to mind.

After being quiet for almost 3 months, the parents decide to finally "speak" 2 days before the trial.

Hardly a coincidence, but very damaging for the B2.

Their chance of a fair trial are even more distant now!!

It might be the case if members of the public were foriegners and on a jury, but they are not. Just a judge and since only one is easy for the heavyweights to control

It must not suprise you that any foriegner who reads this or has posted on these forums will have zero bearing on this case and outcome.

as always you are a silent visitor when in Thailand.

Strange how after years of living under these conditions some farangs still keep the concept that their self importance somehow means something in thailand.

the verdict is already made IMO and since the true heavyweights have already spoken im sure it will not go against them

Or maybe you suspect they will be found guilty by the judge"s" because they are likely the ones who committed this crime and the evidence to date suggests this.

yes, that will most likely be the case, as the judge wont be able to consider (or even be aware of) the extraordinary inconsistencies in the case.

its true, police mistakes shouldnt allow the guilty a pardon, and police mistakes cant proove or disprove anything.

but looking at the method of killing david..not explained,no murder weapon..and no link to Burmese.

The whole crux of this is with the other murder weapon..the hoe IMO. But they said no DNA on the hoe did they not?

If the hoe did have DNA of either victim and either of the B2, well, its curtains for sure.

If the only DNA evidence they have is one boys semen..well rape is not murder..

Simple question is, does their evidence prove who did the killing?

So far the only evidence we have heard of prooves rape by one and possibly sexual assualt from the other Burmese.

Im guessing the dossier of prosecution have some evidence of murder and link to one of the suspect,that we havent heard of.

just becuase the police were a bit loose in releasing some details,doesnt mean they released eveything they did have

Edited December 7, 2014 by tingtongtourist

[jdinasia]

Boomerangutang except itv and the BBC both ran the story. Another conspiracy theory.

[JohnThailandJohn]

UK officials have put pressure on the UK Investigators and the investigators have gone along with this to mislead the victim's family? Are you for real?We all know how powerful a tiny island headsman can be.

I don't image you have come back to reality yet.

This case is not about your revenge against, "conspiracy theorists". It is about the lives of two young Burmese men who might have their lives taken unfairly.

Actually the case is about two innocent people murdered and seeing the right people being brought to justice. So far it appears the police have the right people to be tried based on not just evidence such as their semen in one of the victims but also based on UK Investigators who know much much much more about the case than any of us and have seen the evidence and case first hand and have shared this with the victims families who have just shared a statement clearly indicating their belief the right people are being charged and clearly stating the BS conspiracy theorists have cause their families harm.

I am not looking for revenge against the conspiracy theorists and have great respect for those who have now decided to stop the nonsense and admit they got sucked into it what was a bunch of speculation based on unknowns and/ completely incorrect or partial information spread by people angry with authorities long before this case or simply have a grudge against Thailand. What I will continue to do is point out how these conspiracy theorists are being dishonest and twisting reality ... such as this being about two innocent Burmese whose semen was found in a victim vs. justice for the actual victims.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Boomerangutang except itv and the BBC both ran the story. Another conspiracy theory.

To name just a few other sites ...

Thai beach murders: Brit victims' families 'confident' about investigation into 'atrocious crimes'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thai-beach-murders-brit-victims-4757523

Family of murdered British backpackers in Thailand say evidence convincing

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1206/665029-thailand/

New statements from families of Hannah Witheridge from Hemsby and David Miller: Evidence against Burmese suspects ‘powerful and convincing’

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/new_statements_from_families_of_hannah_witheridge_from_hemsby_and_david_miller_evidence_against_burmese_suspects_powerful_and_convincing_1_3876229

Hannah Witheridge's Family 'Confident' In Thai Murder Investigation

http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/witheridges-family-confident-thai-investigation/#slpSZ43iWk8DBeu3.99

[Delcavom]

Actually the case is about two innocent people murdered and seeing the right people being brought to justice. So far it appears the police have the right people to be tried based on not just evidence such as their semen in one of the victims but also based on UK Investigators who know much much much more about the case than any of us and have seen the evidence and case first hand and have shared this with the victims families who have just shared a statement clearly indicating their belief the right people are being charged and clearly stating the BS conspiracy theorists have cause their families harm.

I am not looking for revenge against the conspiracy theorists and have great respect for this who have now decided to stop the nonsense and admit they got sucked into it what was a bunch of speculation based on unknowns and/ completely incorrect or partial information. What I will continue to do is point out how these conspiracy theorists are being dishonest and twisting reality ... such as this being about two innocent Burmese whose semen was found in a victim vs. justice for the actual victims.

If only it was actually about that. It is nice to believe in the system as it takes away from any of your responsibility to think and process for yourself. This case has two murdered Brits who potentially will never have the true criminals bought to justice as the masses continue to sleep.

You are aware of the practice of setting up a Patsy right? Illegal immigrants.....common freaking practice. Our history is rife with finding scapegoats to cover for criminals.

You keep going back to the semen like you have a fact which you do not. You have a claim. None of this has been heard in a court of law under oath.

I know it is much easier to trust and I know how scary it is for you to think about having to be responsible for your thoughts. It is sad thinking that people act in dishonest ways but it has been happening for Eons and it is up to the thinkers to make sure things are done right.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Those who harp on about the families wishes but yet still feel compelled to rebuf and rebuke posts are the worst type of hypocrite going.

You're every bit as guilty of not respecting the families wishes by constantly responding.

The families nor the moderators need your constant holier than thou attitudes by criticising others about privacy.

If you want to respect the families, refrain from responding !!!

For starters, I haven't harped on about anything except seeking justice for the victims and getting rapists/murderers locked up. This case has become fodder for public debate, like it or not. Most, if not all the posters are seeking justice. Silence won't accomplish much toward that goal, particularly if public statements only reflect Thai officialdom's side of the issue.

While some are seeking justice in this case, it would appear many are trying to seek their own personal justice for their dislike of Thailand or Thai authorities. Despite the realities of this case, some seem to have no bounds in trying to promote their BS including now saying UK authorities are involved in the cover-up and the families didn't actually write the statement but where forced or manipulated into signing it or on the less fantasy front but still out there that the UK Investigators have been duped by the Thais and don't know as much as online conspiracy posters know about Thai police.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Actually the case is about two innocent people murdered and seeing the right people being brought to justice. So far it appears the police have the right people to be tried based on not just evidence such as their semen in one of the victims but also based on UK Investigators who know much much much more about the case than any of us and have seen the evidence and case first hand and have shared this with the victims families who have just shared a statement clearly indicating their belief the right people are being charged and clearly stating the BS conspiracy theorists have cause their families harm.

I am not looking for revenge against the conspiracy theorists and have great respect for this who have now decided to stop the nonsense and admit they got sucked into it what was a bunch of speculation based on unknowns and/ completely incorrect or partial information. What I will continue to do is point out how these conspiracy theorists are being dishonest and twisting reality ... such as this being about two innocent Burmese whose semen was found in a victim vs. justice for the actual victims.

If only it was actually about that. It is nice to believe in the system as it takes away from any of your responsibility to think and process for yourself. This case has two murdered Brits who potentially will never have the true criminals bought to justice as the masses continue to sleep.

You are aware of the practice of setting up a Patsy right? Illegal immigrants.....common freaking practice. Our history is rife with finding scapegoats to cover for criminals.

You keep going back to the semen like you have a fact which you do not. You have a claim. None of this has been heard in a court of law under oath.

I know it is much easier to trust and I know how scary it is for you to think about having to be responsible for your thoughts. It is sad thinking that people act in dishonest ways but it has been happening for Eons and it is up to the thinkers to make sure things are done right.

I am all for not playing in fantasy land and respecting the families view who have MUCH MUCH MUCH more insight into the evidence and investigation than any of us and have been briefed by UK Investigators who examined the evidence and investigation first hand.

For God's sake stop the nonsense. Let the case play out and stop living in fantasy world for how so many people might be involved in a conspiracy to protect the son of some small Thai Island Headsman who wasn't even on the island and where no evidence has been presented to suggest he did this and who police had zero problem of publicly accusing early on when they were being fed incorrect information.

It is not seeking justice to make up fantasy and speculation but simply being ridiculous for other motives. There is nothing in THIS case to suggest a cover up or patsy unless you are using a lot of speculation and incomplete (dishonest) information.

Edited December 7, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Delcavom]

While some are seeking justice in this case, it would appear many are trying to seek their own personal justice for their dislike of Thailand or Thai authorities. Despite the realities of this case, some seem to have no bounds in trying to promote their BS including now saying UK authorities are involved in the cover-up and the families didn't actually write the statement but where forced or manipulated into signing it or on the less fantasy front but still out there that the UK Investigators have been duped by the Thais and don't know as much as online conspiracy posters know about Thai police.

Or maybe some people dont want to see innocent people put to death. Just depends on perspective.

[Delcavom]

There is nothing in THIS case to suggest a cover up or patsy unless you are using a lot of speculation and incomplete (dishonest) information.

Some of us call it a brain and a bit of reasoning.

[cbluck58]

The truth of this tragic occurrence is unlikely to ever see the light of day so what is the point of all the speculation. ?

[Delcavom]

The truth of this tragic occurrence is unlikely to ever see the light of day so what is the point of all the speculation. ?

I totally get the sentiment. It is only from the people who really care does a difference ever get made. If there is enough attention and interest we have a chance of getting the truth.

[JohnThailandJohn]

While some are seeking justice in this case, it would appear many are trying to seek their own personal justice for their dislike of Thailand or Thai authorities. Despite the realities of this case, some seem to have no bounds in trying to promote their BS including now saying UK authorities are involved in the cover-up and the families didn't actually write the statement but where forced or manipulated into signing it or on the less fantasy front but still out there that the UK Investigators have been duped by the Thais and don't know as much as online conspiracy posters know about Thai police.

Or maybe some people dont want to see innocent people put to death. Just depends on perspective.

Then why not obsess about the guy who raped and killed the little girl on the train and threw her body out the window? He is closer to death than these guys and just as much non-evidence their to suggest he is innocent.

Anybody who thinks these two are not more likely guilty than innocent at this point clearly has some ulterior motives or is just incredibly gullible to what anonymous internet posters make up. Trial still needs to happen but it seems fairly clear they have the right people in custody and has for a long time but the victims families has just confirmed this more after speaking to UK investigators who were actually here and examined the evidence and handling of the case.

[JLCrab]

While some are seeking justice in this case, it would appear many are trying to seek their own personal justice for their dislike of Thailand or Thai authorities. Despite the realities of this case, some seem to have no bounds in trying to promote their BS including now saying UK authorities are involved in the cover-up and the families didn't actually write the statement but where forced or manipulated into signing it or on the less fantasy front but still out there that the UK Investigators have been duped by the Thais and don't know as much as online conspiracy posters know about Thai police.

Or maybe some people dont want to see innocent people put to death. Just depends on perspective.

So maybe you are suggesting that there are some people who want to see innocent people put to death? Maybe that would do wonders when 2 innocent people are put to death and then shortly thereafter another series of rape & murder crimes takes place so that some can point to the total breakdown of the Thai justice system that executed the 2 innocents? Demonstrating the total breakdown of the Thai justice systems seems to be what some want to accomplish regardless of the outcome of this case.

[JohnThailandJohn]

There is nothing in THIS case to suggest a cover up or patsy unless you are using a lot of speculation and incomplete (dishonest) information.

Some of us call it a brain and a bit of reasoning.

And the rest of the world calls it fantasy and conspiracy theories based on speculation and misinformation and folks with a lot of time on their hands to play games with photos and partial statements in the press as opposed to considering the opinions of UK investigators and and the victims families who know MUCH MUCH MUCH more about the case and evidence instead of the made up speculation by online investigators who know very little about the case but have no problem repeating as actual evidence and sucking the gullible into believing and ignore actual credible information.