Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[DennisF]

I just love the comment that the PM, the leader of the Dumbta apologised that his remarks {quote} didnt come out right|unquote.

Gotta be the most pathetic RTP apologist post this week!!

[JohnThailandJohn]

Khao Sod name the source, and apparently he believed that Europeans were unlikely to have done it too: "The behaviour of the perpetrators is too violent for a Thai or a European to do it," Pol.Maj.Gen. Kiattipong said.

Edit - Oops. forgot to include the link: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412429700

Thanks - first time I had actually seen the quote

Not confident though that was what was said .. The link is from an article dated Oct 4 but says the statement was made September 16. A Google search for this quote shows no mention anywhere outside this article

https://www.google.com/search?q=Thai+media+initially+quoted+police+officers+as+blaming+Burmese+workers+for+the+attacks%2C+but+officers+later+said+they+had+no+suspects+before+announcing+they+wanted+to+trace+Mr+Millers+friend.&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&oq=Thai+media+initially+quoted+police+officers+as+blaming+Burmese+workers+for+the+attacks%2C+but+officers+later+said+they+had+no+suspects+before+announcing+they+wanted+to+trace+Mr+Millers+friend.&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.462600j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q="The+behaviour+of+the+perpetrators+is+too+violent+for+a+Thai+or+a+European+to+do+it"

Even taking it out of quotes and trying partial statement I couldn't find where this was originally quoted almost 3 weeks earlier. I could swear people were talking about this days after the murders as I found it interesting since police were around that time questioning pointing the finger at Farang friend and then later the Bangkok University student. Also remember reading in one news source the statement (or similar one) came from a politician.

Edited December 22, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[thailandchilli]

Can't even find his own links "A senior officer told the BBC the day after the murders that the culprit could not have been Thai because Thais would never commit such a crime. The police then interviewed dozens of Burmese migrant workers."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-29530332

[thailandchilli]

Thanks to Islandlover

“It was obvious from the method of the killing that it was done by Burmese,” the Thai policeman who led the investigation told me. “Because they are very brutal people. Local people are very friendly.”

Source: Richard Lloyd Parry, Koh Tao, Thailand for The Times, 22nd November 2014

The times is subscription only

[JohnThailandJohn]

I read the linked above report the other day:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness ..."

NB: IF

Sounds like grasping at straws but if they are going to go the innocent defense route then this is what needs to be done.

Koh Tao defence lawyers call on British witnesses

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-defence-lawyers-call-on-british-witnesses-burma-myanmar/46655

[BritTim]

I read the linked above report the other day:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness ..."

NB: IF

Let's look at this quote in context:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness, we can ask the government to provide security and expenses,” said lawyer Aung Myo Than.

The true meaning is that the promised support is only for the most important witnesses, not every witness the defense might like to use.

Meanwhile, this snippet from the article is, perhaps, more significant:

“Five Myanmar workers returning from Thailand came from Koh Tao. Thailand told witnesses to stay away from the case and bribed them not to make telephone conversations. That’s why some workers are afraid to testify,” said Aung Myo Than.

I have not seen this reported anywhere else.

[thailandchilli]

I read the linked above report the other day:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness ..."

NB: IF

Sounds like grasping at straws but if they are going to go the innocent defense route then this is what needs to be done.

Koh Tao defence lawyers call on British witnesses

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-defence-lawyers-call-on-british-witnesses-burma-myanmar/46655

I would say this is grasping at straws

[DennisF]

In the report it says the prosecution has some 40 witnesses.

How does anyone know that if they have not released the information to the defence?

Is there a leak or have they just quoted numbers to scare the defence?

[dcutman]

Curious as to how the prosecution is going to handle the police interrogation issue where to police completely ignored all laws about criminal procedure. Secret safe house, no lawyer, no right to remain silent, pancake vendor for a translator.

Better yet how will the defense team handle this?

[thailandchilli]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

[ttthailand]

Koh Tao is in the Thai news again today. My gf told me that a farang girl 21 years old died after being hit today by a boat. She tells me the report said it happened at 2:30 pm, why have I not seen it posted anywhere ?

OMG ... This island is bad news

[DennisF]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

This is the reponse many feared.

The UK police were spoon fed titbits by a so called interpreter.

The statement smacks of frustration, frankly.

The smoking gun is not going to happen although it is reassuring that and MPS report will not be shared with the crooks in Thailand.

I had high hopes for the UK police but it is obvious their hands were tightly shackled.

As Wussy boy Cameron declared nthat the MPS would be investigating perhaps he can enlighten us to why the rules changed?

[AGareth2]

is that 2 fingers to the tax payer?

[DennisF]

Koh Tao is in the Thai news again today. My gf told me that a farang girl 21 years old died after being hit today by a boat. She tells me the report said it happened at 2:30 pm, why have I not seen it posted anywhere ?

OMG ... This island is bad news

WHY?? Easy.. affects tourism.

Sad but there have been enough warnings for people to stay away.

Murder Island is at your own risk now.

[BritTim]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

[thailandchilli]

Koh Tao is in the Thai news again today. My gf told me that a farang girl 21 years old died after being hit today by a boat. She tells me the report said it happened at 2:30 pm, why have I not seen it posted anywhere ?

OMG ... This island is bad news

WHY?? Easy.. affects tourism.

Sad but there have been enough warnings for people to stay away.

Murder Island is at your own risk now.

The Grim Reapers in full swing in Koh Tao

A Norwegian tourist was fatally injured by a speed boat's rotors when she came to the surface after scuba diving near Koh Tao in Surat Thani Monday afternoon.

The tourist was identified as Silji Macdison, 22. The rotors hit her head and left leg. She died while the authorities were trying to send her a hospital on Koh Samui. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Norwegian-tourist-fatally-injured-by-speed-boat-ro-30250400.html

STAY AWAY

[catsanddogs]

Thanks to Islandlover

“It was obvious from the method of the killing that it was done by Burmese,” the Thai policeman who led the investigation told me. “Because they are very brutal people. Local people are very friendly.”

Source: Richard Lloyd Parry, Koh Tao, Thailand for The Times, 22nd November 2014

The times is subscription only

Outrageous!

[lildragon]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

This is what gripes me.

The families say the evidence is convincing yet the UK police have told the lawyers defense team that they didn't really investigate much. This stinks to high heaven.

[catsanddogs]

I read the linked above report the other day:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness ..."

NB: IF

Sounds like grasping at straws but if they are going to go the innocent defense route then this is what needs to be done.

Koh Tao defence lawyers call on British witnesses

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-defence-lawyers-call-on-british-witnesses-burma-myanmar/46655

DVB said:

A formal request was filed at the court on 16 December to summon British nationals, Christopher Ware and Shaun McAnna, to testify as defence witnesses at the trial, a representative of the suspects’ defence team, told DVB.

So none of Hannah's friends are requested. McAnna and Ware only. In which case the B2 must believe McAnna/Ware can assist in their defence because -

1. McAnna/Ware could testify for the whereabouts of the B2 and that is was not at the crime scene.

2. The B2 know that McAnna/Ware witnessed the crimes.

3. McAnna and Ware were involved in the crimes.

Does that make sense?

[catsanddogs]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

The line from the report reads:

The MSC will not provide information for use in a criminal process which lacks the necessary assurances about the use of the death penalty.

And then this news:

Thai Govt 'Willing' To Abolish Death Penalty: Official

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786138-thai-govt-willing-to-abolish-death-penalty-official/

Is there a connection?

[JohnThailandJohn]

I read the linked above report the other day:

“We can’t designate that every witness is important. Their testimony should take affect over the case. If we have that kind of witness ..."

NB: IF

Sounds like grasping at straws but if they are going to go the innocent defense route then this is what needs to be done.

Koh Tao defence lawyers call on British witnesses

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-defence-lawyers-call-on-british-witnesses-burma-myanmar/46655

DVB said:

A formal request was filed at the court on 16 December to summon British nationals, Christopher Ware and Shaun McAnna, to testify as defence witnesses at the trial, a representative of the suspects’ defence team, told DVB.

So none of Hannah's friends are requested. McAnna and Ware only. In which case the B2 must believe McAnna/Ware can assist in their defence because -

1. McAnna/Ware could testify for the whereabouts of the B2 and that is was not at the crime scene.

2. The B2 know that McAnna/Ware witnessed the crimes.

3. McAnna and Ware were involved in the crimes.

Does that make sense?

Much more likely they are grasping at straws such as their letter writing campaign which including asking their victim's families for help. In fact they probably know they are never going to get them as witnesses and are just asking so they can claim more about how unfair the legal system is to them.

[weaver93]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

This is what gripes me.

The families say the evidence is convincing yet the UK police have told the lawyers defense team that they didn't really investigate much. This stinks to high heaven.

The evidence is convincing? This is probably what the Thai Police relayed to the UK Detectives.. hence the quote from the victim's families..

Total waste of time... UK Detectives going to Thailand... -IMO

This clip is interesting...

Edited December 22, 2014 by weaver93

[Vejo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I personally don't read too much into the families statements, I would be surprised if they have seen any concrete evidence, why would the prosecution case keep getting returned?

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

This is what gripes me.

The families say the evidence is convincing yet the UK police have told the lawyers defense team that they didn't really investigate much. This stinks to high heaven.

Put yourself in the position of a Police liaison officer or detective having to go to a grieving family desperately seeking justice and an explanation what happened to their child. Would you rather say "They wouldn't let us do or see anything of any value to the case, it is being handled by imbecilic juveniles with no idea how to carry out a methodical criminal investigation and no interest in justice, they are purely looking for the easiest solution to allow them to return to their extortion rackets" just adding to their misery. Or would you be more diplomatic, deal in absolutes to offer solace and say "From what we've officially observed we have seen nothing to doubt the prosecution" and let them draw their own comfort and conclusions from that.

[lildragon]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I personally don't read too much into the families statements, I would be surprised if they have seen any concrete evidence, why would the prosecution case keep getting returned?

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

This is what gripes me.

The families say the evidence is convincing yet the UK police have told the lawyers defense team that they didn't really investigate much. This stinks to high heaven.

Put yourself in the position of a Police liaison officer or detective having to go to a grieving family desperately seeking justice and an explanation what happened to their child. Would you rather say "They wouldn't let us do or see anything of any value to the case, it is being handled by imbecilic juveniles with no idea how to carry out a methodical criminal investigation and no interest in justice, they are purely looking for the easiest solution to allow them to return to their extortion rackets" just adding to their misery. Or would you be more diplomatic, deal in absolutes to offer solace and say "From what we've officially observed we have seen nothing to doubt the prosecution" and let them draw their own comfort and conclusions from that.

If it was my child I'd want the truth and certainly consider the feelings of another set of parents whose own children maybe stitched up for this farce.

It's easy for me to say that I know. I'm not in Hannah and David's parents situation right now. But I do hope another two sets of parents don't lose their young sons to a complete mis-carriage of justice.

Edited December 22, 2014 by lildragon

[katana]

Another death on Ko Tao today today (22/12/14) in the Thai news. A Norwegian tourist, Silje Fauskerud Mathisen, was killed when she was hit by a boat while scuba diving in Ao Sai Thawng. She succumbed to injuries from the propeller shortly afterwards.

Edited December 22, 2014 by katana

[DennisF]

The statement from the British Police reveals what Cameron said about assisting the investigation was a barefaced lie, not unusual from this ineffectual PM.

Today I am ashamed to be English.

[boomerangutang]

The statement from the British Police reveals what Cameron said about assisting the investigation was a barefaced lie, not unusual from this ineffectual PM.

Today I am ashamed to be English.

Cameron can use the excuse; "when I spoke personally with the Thai PM, he assured me British experts would be allowed to assist in the investigation. However, we heard a day later that the Thai PM, after he returned to Bangkok, changed the word 'assist' to 'observe' - which essentially hamstring any independent investigation or pursuance of leads on our part. My sincerest apologies to those who may be affected by the Thai PM's about face."

[boomerangutang]

Koh Tao is in the Thai news again today. My gf told me that a farang girl 21 years old died after being hit today by a boat. She tells me the report said it happened at 2:30 pm, why have I not seen it posted anywhere ?

OMG ... This island is bad news

Reminds me of one of the brief times I was on the beach at Pattaya. A jet ski, driven by one of the Thai jet ski renters, was being driven to shore. There were kids playing in the murky surf, yet the driver sped in a curve, right in to their midst. Rather like a dog running at a flock of geese on the ground (for t he thrill of seeing them scatter). I was about to shout a warning at the driver, but I know how young Thai men think. I've seen how quick they get offended, then angry, then glob together with other young Thai men to physically attack a farang who challenges them - in their own country. Luckily, the kids were only spooked, but not harmed.

[BritTim]

So a response at last from the UK police just announced by Andy Hall. Confirms the UK police did very little and raises serious questions about the statements from the families: https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

One part of the response strikes me as especially bizarre. They state that no help for the defense (in potentially avoiding the execution of the accused) could be offered because, under Thai law, the charges potentially carry the death penalty!

Apparently, though, it is fine to facilitate statements (by the families) that make a guilty verdict more likely.

This is UK diplomacy at its worst. They will do nothing that risks the larger relationship with Thailand.

This is what gripes me.

The families say the evidence is convincing yet the UK police have told the lawyers defense team that they didn't really investigate much. This stinks to high heaven.

The evidence is convincing? This is probably what the Thai Police relayed to the UK Detectives.. hence the quote from the victim's families..

Total waste of time... UK Detectives going to Thailand... -IMO

This clip is interesting...

I watched this discussion when it first appeared. My Thai is reasonable so I followed the drift then. It is relaxing to be able to see the subtitles on this snippet. The full discussion is much longer, and contains various other allegations. What is really interesting is that no defamation suit has been instigated. I assumed this would happen and be the opportunity for a proper investigation. To allow these allegations to go unanswered speaks volumes IMHO.

Note to those who are unaware. View the clip on YouTube and click the appropriate icon bottom right to enable subtitles.

Edited December 23, 2014 by BritTim

[cornishcarlos]

Any chance of changing the headline to this OP?

Every time I see it, I think a family has been murdered....

Sort it out