Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[berybert]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

You do tend to believe the bits you want to believe. Mon was a suspect and asked to give dna. He declined and was let go.

That is not the work you expect from professional policemen.

[catsanddogs]

Same people who don't believe in the time stamped video clearly showing his face and that he wasn't on the island at the time.

Of course makes perfect sense to disregard clear video on numerous cameras and believe in a video that investigators have confirmed is not him and that nobody in their right mind could ever come close to identify it as being him.

Just curious, as I assume this must be known but am unaware ... How tall is Nomsed? How tall is the person in the video? How tall are the Burmese defendants?

Easy way for Nomsod to clear himself. Produce your bank records (ATM card use and transaction locations) as well as cell phone records to show where the device was used and the towers it was connected to. If these things come up and prove to clear him, all the better.

If I was the suspect, I would be providing every single shred of evidence to prove I was not there. So far the only thing he has done was put on a public display of his "DNA sample" contribution that was likely compared against the DNA of a coconut tree with the official notice of "nope, he's not a match...."

Lets be real -- video from his aprtment and reportedly from the university - university staff and records - witnesses - police confirmation - ZERO credible evidence to suggest he was on the island - DNA tests sent to three different labs ......... all this is not enough but you think an ATM card and cell phone records (could have lent to his GF) are going to convince you?

Absolutely NOTHING linking him to the crime or even being within hundred of miles of the crime when it occurred ... in fact STRONG evidence showed he was not there or involved.

Police publicly named him as a suspect early on (no fear of him or his family) and then investigated him and cleared him as they did many people early on while following up on leads which many turned out to be false.

Just picking random people to accuse and demanding they go to extraordinary means to prove they were not involved is beyond illogical and IMO just a way to avoid looking at actual facts.

Are you willing to publicly post your personal records online for the world to see to show you are not involved in the murders? Until you are willing to do that here then I don't see how you think it right to demand somebody else do this. And yes, has to be public otherwise people will say the police are lying to protect him.

'Strong' evidence is not the same as solid evidence. So show us the solid evidence that Nomsod was in Bangkok please.

[catsanddogs]

As far as I know, the police have not claimed that is NOT Nomsod or Mon on that video.

They have made crystal clear it is not him on the video by making it crystal clear he was not there at that time.

Hilarious.

[greenchair]

I wonder who the 2 Burmese guys think committed the crime. They must have an opinion as they worked on the island and one at AC bar.

If they're really innocent they would have tried to clear their name and name other suspects. And none of the other Burmese friends at the island have come forward to defend them . Clearly because they believe they are guilty.

What a stupid thing to say - for one they may have no idea who other suspects might be, and if they did have any idea, considering they may have already been tortured by the RTP they would probably be too petrified to name and shame for fear of more.

If they're really innocent they would have tried to clear their name and name other suspects.

Twere wel sed tha twere......ee obviously asunt red t las neyts post

Myanmar says workers innocent of murdering Britons in Thailand

Reuters

Yangon

BANGKOK: -- Myanmar investigators said on Thursday they believe two Myanmar men accused of murdering two British tourists in Thailand are innocent, but witnesses who might be able to prove their innocence will not testify as they fear the Thai police.

That's right witnesses are terrified.

[catsanddogs]

Re JTJ's post 1651.

Why don't you do your own research like others on here if you're curious?

Because I didn't make a claim of who could be on the video based on their height. For somebody to make such a statement honestly surely they must have an idea of the height of the person in the video and that of who they say it can or can't be.

Though this is all kind of just another way to distract from facts since there is nothing we know that links the person in the video to any crime let alone these murders except police early on wanted to find out who this person was just as they did about many people including the two on the beach near the murders that turned out to be the two defendants.

Oh I see. Thanks for enlightening me. Must have just been a coincidence that there was a half naked Asian man running around at the time of the murders then. And that he seems to have been wearing two different pairs of shorts in a short space of time and David was wearing white shorts on the night he was murdered but they were blue shorts that were found on the beach and the man seen running in the first clip was wearing blue shorts and then white ones.

Why ask for information in the first place when you just want to shoot other people down and bang on about your own conspiracy theory?

[greenchair]

The strangest thing about that video is if it does show the killer, why is there only one person ? The Burmese would have both have left at the same time surely ?

There is supposed to be 2 or 3 more minutes of cctv from previous readings. So there simply has to be footage of 2 killers, not just 1.

JTJ If the police are so sure they have the right men in jail why did the offer a taxi driver loads of money to lie for them ?

Why did Nomsods cousin say he was with her in Bangkok at the time of the murder, yet she was unaware she was sending the message from Pattaya.

Its the small things that don't ad up.

As for calling a whole nation brutal. I would imagine you and your fellow Americans have killed far more people than the Burmese ever did.

The strangest thing about that video is if it does show the killer, why is there only one person ?

There were another couple of people seen three seconds in front or behind (can't remember without seeing the stills) of the topless man. The big guy with the peaked cap and (not Asian) and an Asian looking woman.

Yes, that man 3 seconds in front. Looks like he is running from something. Can't we start a viral YouTube thing to find people that we need. Maybe they have gone home and don't know about saw and Wei.

[greenchair]

Why did nomsod lie.

[rockingrobin]

Was mon not confirmed as the man in the cctv but released based on the dna non match

The timeline of statements and cctv are problematic

[catsanddogs]

Why did nomsod lie.

He's monk now apparently. Not that that makes any difference. Plenty of evil monks in the world.

[StealthEnergiser]

Was mon not confirmed as the man in the cctv but released based on the dna non match

The timeline of statements and cctv are problematic

I have read most posts on here and 99.99percent believe Mon is still a suspect ,I also notice that the remaining very veryminor percentage of people have been extremely active from day one the moment Mon is mentioned.

[catsanddogs]

Just a reminder:

Sean has been on the island since September 9.

He has been friends with David, 24, since they met in Leeds last year.

He didn't realise he was on Koh Tao until he saw a Facebook posting.

They had arranged to meet on the night of the murders but Sean was hungover and didn't get out of bed.

He now thinks the killer will never be caught.

“Thai Police have no chance of solving this crime,” he said.

“The Met Police should have been involved as soon as possible.

“The forensic team did not arrive until 20 hours after the incident.”

22nd Sept - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scot-goes-hiding-thai-island-4302708

[catsanddogs]

Just a reminder:

Sean has been on the island since September 9.

He has been friends with David, 24, since they met in Leeds last year.

He didn't realise he was on Koh Tao until he saw a Facebook posting.

They had arranged to meet on the night of the murders but Sean was hungover and didn't get out of bed.

He now thinks the killer will never be caught.

“Thai Police have no chance of solving this crime,” he said.

“The Met Police should have been involved as soon as possible.

“The forensic team did not arrive until 20 hours after the incident.”

22nd Sept - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scot-goes-hiding-thai-island-4302708

A hell of a lot can happen in 20 hours.

How come he was so confident that Thai police had no chance of solving the crime?

[AGareth2]

not long to wait till we hear the evidence

[catsanddogs]

Just a reminder:

Sean has been on the island since September 9.

He has been friends with David, 24, since they met in Leeds last year.

He didn't realise he was on Koh Tao until he saw a Facebook posting.

They had arranged to meet on the night of the murders but Sean was hungover and didn't get out of bed.

He now thinks the killer will never be caught.

“Thai Police have no chance of solving this crime,” he said.

“The Met Police should have been involved as soon as possible.

“The forensic team did not arrive until 20 hours after the incident.”

22nd Sept - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scot-goes-hiding-thai-island-4302708

A hell of a lot can happen in 20 hours.

How come he was so confident that Thai police had no chance of solving the crime?

And this from same article above:

The busker – dubbed “Guitarman' - has been cleared by police.

But he has angered locals by talking openly about the crime.

So what aspects of the crime did he talk openly about? And to whom? Seems obvious that those he spoke to need to be questioned. Unless they are somehow incriminated themselves of course.

And that hoe looks like it's been planted. No attempt whatsoever to hide it or get rid of it. Even if a murderer was disturbed during their actions they wouldn't neatly place it in a place like that. Stinks more than a dead hedgehog.

[AleG]

The only reason he saw Nomsod was because a policeman said it was Nomsod. The video was released before that policeman was taken off the case.

Its hard to tell 100% that is sure. My GF said some Thai people actually believe it's Mon in the CCTV. Too tall for the B2 that's for sure!!

I think there is a possibility it could be Mon too.

Well, boomerangutang, here you have proof that Nomsod is definitely the man on the CCTV footage is nothing but make believe, Mon and Nomsod look nothing alike, but there's people debating whether it's one or the other.

If it was clear enough for a positive ID there wouldn't be any debate at all.

I suggest you look at the entirety of this talk before claiming that you know for sure who is in that video:

[thailandchilli]

Would that be the same hoe the RTP have said killed David but none of Davids DNA was found on it.............this more than stinks, its a disgrace to Thailand, a complete lack of respect to the victims families and a whitewash court case for the B2.

[thailandchilli]

The only reason he saw Nomsod was because a policeman said it was Nomsod. The video was released before that policeman was taken off the case.

Its hard to tell 100% that is sure. My GF said some Thai people actually believe it's Mon in the CCTV. Too tall for the B2 that's for sure!!

I think there is a possibility it could be Mon too.

Well, boomerangutang, here you have proof that Nomsod is definitely the man on the CCTV footage is nothing but make believe, Mon and Nomsod look nothing alike, but there's people debating whether it's one or the other.

If it was clear enough for a positive ID there wouldn't be any debate at all.

I suggest you look at the entirety of this talk before claiming that you know for sure who is in that video:

I suggest you get the RTP to look at that, at the start of the investigation the 2 below are who they said were Hannah and David!

[JohnThailandJohn]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

You do tend to believe the bits you want to believe. Mon was a suspect and asked to give dna. He declined and was let go.

That is not the work you expect from professional policemen.

Actually he showed he wasn't on the island and they did not pursue DNA since he wasn't there. He did volunteer his DNA (police didn't ask nor was it requested) later do to social media conspiracy theorists going on non-stop with their nonsense unsupported by anything reality based.

Not to mention his father has also given DNA early on.

Edited December 23, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Same people who don't believe in the time stamped video clearly showing his face and that he wasn't on the island at the time.

Of course makes perfect sense to disregard clear video on numerous cameras and believe in a video that investigators have confirmed is not him and that nobody in their right mind could ever come close to identify it as being him.

Just curious, as I assume this must be known but am unaware ... How tall is Nomsed? How tall is the person in the video? How tall are the Burmese defendants?

Easy way for Nomsod to clear himself. Produce your bank records (ATM card use and transaction locations) as well as cell phone records to show where the device was used and the towers it was connected to. If these things come up and prove to clear him, all the better.

If I was the suspect, I would be providing every single shred of evidence to prove I was not there. So far the only thing he has done was put on a public display of his "DNA sample" contribution that was likely compared against the DNA of a coconut tree with the official notice of "nope, he's not a match...."

Lets be real -- video from his aprtment and reportedly from the university - university staff and records - witnesses - police confirmation - ZERO credible evidence to suggest he was on the island - DNA tests sent to three different labs ......... all this is not enough but you think an ATM card and cell phone records (could have lent to his GF) are going to convince you?

Absolutely NOTHING linking him to the crime or even being within hundred of miles of the crime when it occurred ... in fact STRONG evidence showed he was not there or involved.

Police publicly named him as a suspect early on (no fear of him or his family) and then investigated him and cleared him as they did many people early on while following up on leads which many turned out to be false.

Just picking random people to accuse and demanding they go to extraordinary means to prove they were not involved is beyond illogical and IMO just a way to avoid looking at actual facts.

Are you willing to publicly post your personal records online for the world to see to show you are not involved in the murders? Until you are willing to do that here then I don't see how you think it right to demand somebody else do this. And yes, has to be public otherwise people will say the police are lying to protect him.

'Strong' evidence is not the same as solid evidence. So show us the solid evidence that Nomsod was in Bangkok please.

Again -- witnesses including university staff and students, multiple videos with time stamps, university records, investigators confirmation after looking into this and God knows what else that wasn't made public.

This is what you call SOLID evidence not to mention the very obvious (to anyone not looking to ignore reality) THERE IS NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST HE WAS ON THE ISLAND OR HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CRIME.

[thailandchilli]

Solid evidence of Nomsod in Bangkok:

Witness statements: Where? Who, Source?

University Staff statements: Where, who, source?

Student statements: Where, who, source?

University records: Source?

Investigators confirmation looking into this: The RTP investigating! that's a first, show me the source for that please.

Stating there's solid evidence is not enough in the real world without backing up your claims

Edited December 23, 2014 by thailandchilli

[catsanddogs]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

You do tend to believe the bits you want to believe. Mon was a suspect and asked to give dna. He declined and was let go.

That is not the work you expect from professional policemen.

Actually he showed he wasn't on the island and they did not pursue DNA since he wasn't there. He did volunteer his DNA (police didn't ask nor was it requested) later do to social media conspiracy theorists going on non-stop with their nonsense unsupported by anything reality based.

Not to mention his father has also given DNA early on.

Just goes to show the power of social media then. Let's keep it up!

[catsanddogs]

To JTJ:

There's no need to shout with your CAPS LOCK ON. Please could you provide links to evidence the witness statements of university staff and records to prove Nomsod was in Bankgkok. That would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[Willy Eckerslike]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

I do not believe it is the defendants semen

[StealthEnergiser]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

I do not believe it is the defendants semen

JTJ should read this (anything is possible in thailand)

that the sperm had been procured elsewhere and inserted into the victim’s vagina. This has happened before in Thailand, a technique to throw investigators off the scent.

http://www.samuitimes.com/mother-murdered-backpacker-kirsty-jones-calls-help-fco/

Edited December 23, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[Willy Eckerslike]

Why did nomsod lie.

Why did his Father lie.

[Willy Eckerslike]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

You do tend to believe the bits you want to believe. Mon was a suspect and asked to give dna. He declined and was let go.

That is not the work you expect from professional policemen.

Actually he showed he wasn't on the island and they did not pursue DNA since he wasn't there. He did volunteer his DNA (police didn't ask nor was it requested) later do to social media conspiracy theorists going on non-stop with their nonsense unsupported by anything reality based.

Not to mention his father has also given DNA early on.

If you read the post you are responding to berybert was referring to Mon.............And Mon was definitely on the Island

[catsanddogs]

We all wonder what some of this compelling evidence the prosecution has. I hope its still not the un trusted DNA match as that is too unreliable to to give a safe conviction.

DNA only proves sexual contact. So despite it seeming obvious they would be guilty based on their semen being in the victim, it may not be legally enough to convict of murder. But what evidence do have at all to support the DNA should be untrusted and you should just disregard this crucial evidence? How do you suggest both defendants semen got into the victim?

I do not believe it is the defendants semen

Neither do I Willy. If there was any semen in the first place. And if there was, there's always the possibly that she had consensual sex at some point (even with an Asian). And if she was raped it may have taken place someone other than the beach location. It doesn't sit right with me that none of Hannah's friends seem to have spoken out.

When I was seventeen and had my first holiday abroad in Tenerife my room mate went out one evening with one of the local waiters. When she returned in the early hours of the morning she told me she had been raped by the waiter. My friend was also 17. She cried for the next two days and refused to go to the police. I was at a loss of how to help her at that time. Just saying.

[Chicog]

British detectives who travelled to Thailand after concerns were raised about the investigation into the murder of two British tourists had a very narrow role while there and viewed only limited aspects of the case, the Metropolitan police has said.

In the first public statement about the extent of British police involvement in the inquiry into the killings of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on the holiday island of Koh Tao in September, the Met said its officers “did not conduct any investigations into the murders” themselves.

Two Burmese suspects, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, who have alleged they were tortured by Thai police following their arrest, are due to go on trial on 26 December.

The defence lawyers have not been allowed access to the prosecution case, and they and the rights group Reprieve wrote to the Met requesting that it hand over any relevant information.

However, the Met’s legal services team wrote back to say the force did not hold any details of the case. Its letter to Reprieve said: “The Thai authorities permitted the UK police officers to have observer status only in relation to limited parts of the Royal Thai police’s investigation, and the UK police officers did not provide any advice or assistance with that investigation.

“They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The Royal Thai police provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.”

They might as well have not bothered.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/police-thai-inquiry-britons-murder?

[BritTim]

Same people who don't believe in the time stamped video clearly showing his face and that he wasn't on the island at the time.

Of course makes perfect sense to disregard clear video on numerous cameras and believe in a video that investigators have confirmed is not him and that nobody in their right mind could ever come close to identify it as being him.

Just curious, as I assume this must be known but am unaware ... How tall is Nomsed? How tall is the person in the video? How tall are the Burmese defendants?

You are highly articulate, and you are correct that the individual pieces of evidence pointing at perpetrators other than the Burmese kids are flimsy. However, nothing I have seen so far that is verifiable points at the Burmese kids being guilty. Indeed, their physical stature lack of anyone suggesting they have been violent in the past, and their behavior in the aftermath of the crime makes me almost sure they are innocent. Meanwhile, you ask,

How tall is Nomsed?

Reported to be around 1.58m

How tall is the person in the video?

Estimated by some with experience in such matters, and by the RTP, as 1.60m to 1.70m

How tall are the Burmese defendants?

One is only 1.44m (tiny even by Burmese standards), the other 1.52m

Worth remembering that David and Hannah were around 1.90m and 1.70m respectively. According to the official story, they lost out in a battle to the death to the Burmese kids, half their weight, without suffering any injuries themselves.

By the way, do you have an explanation for why both Hannah and David were found naked? This has always seemed a curious aspect of the case that matches the theory that the crime scene was stage managed, but is hard to reconcile otherwise.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Same people who don't believe in the time stamped video clearly showing his face and that he wasn't on the island at the time.

Of course makes perfect sense to disregard clear video on numerous cameras and believe in a video that investigators have confirmed is not him and that nobody in their right mind could ever come close to identify it as being him.

Just curious, as I assume this must be known but am unaware ... How tall is Nomsed? How tall is the person in the video? How tall are the Burmese defendants?

You are highly articulate, and you are correct that the individual pieces of evidence pointing at perpetrators other than the Burmese kids are flimsy. However, nothing I have seen so far that is verifiable points at the Burmese kids being guilty. Indeed, their physical stature lack of anyone suggesting they have been violent in the past, and their behavior in the aftermath of the crime makes me almost sure they are innocent. Meanwhile, you ask,

How tall is Nomsed?

Reported to be around 1.58m

How tall is the person in the video?

Estimated by some with experience in such matters, and by the RTP, as 1.60m to 1.70m

How tall are the Burmese defendants?

One is only 1.44m (tiny even by Burmese standards), the other 1.52m

Worth remembering that David and Hannah were around 1.90m and 1.70m respectively. According to the official story, they lost out in a battle to the death to the Burmese kids, half their weight, without suffering any injuries themselves.

By the way, do you have an explanation for why both Hannah and David were found naked? This has always seemed a curious aspect of the case that matches the theory that the crime scene was stage managed, but is hard to reconcile otherwise.

From reports it would seem a male and female lost out on a fight with two armed men and that the male was attacked from behind ... possibly by surprise.

Curious, where has Nomsed's height been reported and who are the experienced people who have concluded the height of the person in the video ... which I again will remind that is not somebody anyone has any proof was involved in the crime and somebody who police may have already identified and cleared.

I will take you on your word about the victim's heights and the Burmese but I question the reliability of the person in the video and the Bangkok University kid who has already been cleared and proved to not have been on the island.