Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[Krenjai]

Well there we have it, now officially a monk...............obviously decided to leave University and everything else behind him, his karma is in obvious need of some input from above

I can't help thinking he wants to hide...... The Sangha:

Becoming a Monk in Thailand

Serving in the monkhood is an ideal for all males in Thailand. Although many young men continue to become official members of the Sangha, as the monkhood is called, for many others it is not practical or not possible due to family financial obligations. The three-month Buddhist Retreat is a time when the new monks are initiated into the order, and it is a time when many young men, and older men, who can not become full-fledged monks engage in a short period of service. We'd like to give readers abetter understanding of what becoming a monk in Thailand means and what the Sangha represents.

The formal name for a monk in Thailand is Pra Piksoo and comes from the Pali language where it is pronounced Bhikkhu. In the present Thai vernacular, most people, however, address a monk as Pra Song. Becoming a monk in Thailand is an intentional act to make merit, especially for one's parents and most particularly for one's mother since she, as a woman, cannot make merit in this way. Although you will see Buddhist nuns in Thailand, called Shee, who have shaved heads and wear white robes, they are lay people who are not fully ordained and who follow eight precepts instead of the227precepts that an ordained monk must follow.

The decision of a young man to become a monk, and thus to make merit for his family, is an extremely important act. The making of merit should not be looked upon lightly in this context because Thais believe that merit (boon and kwam-dee), plus demerit (bap), is always rising and falling and that one's future, in this life and in the next, can change at any moment. Together, merit and goodness determine a person's level of existence at any moment in time. This is what is generally known as a person's karma. Thais see both their suffering and enjoyment at any time as a result of their own karma, and making merit increases their level of existence in Thai society and hence their enjoyment. By entering the monkhood, a young man can make merit for himself and for his family.

Entering the monkhood is called "buat pra" In order to become a monk, a man must be 20 years old, he must be able to read and write, and he must study the rules and precepts for novices. He is given an examination, and if he passes, he is given a certificate of entry to the monkhood by the district head in his province. In most cases, a new monk is ordained just before or at the beginning of the Buddhist Retreat.

On the day of ordination. his head and eyebrows are shaved, he dons a white robe, and he is accompanied to the temple by his family and friends, Once he arrives, he becomes a 'naga', a name out of Hindu mythology which is used because according to a story, a naga (member of a Hindu serpent race) entered a monestary in human form once in order to be ordained a monk and there fore take a quicker path to becoming a real human, subverting the paths of reincarnation.

During the ordination ceremony, he is asked a series of questlons :

• Do you have Leprosy? (No)
• Do you have boils? (No)
• Do you have ringworm? (No)
• Do you have tuberculosis? (No);
• Are you epileptic? (No);
• Are you human? (Yes);
• Are you male? (Yes)
• Are you free of debt? (Yes);
• Are you released from government service? (Yes);
• Do your parents permit you to become a monk? (Yes);
• Are you 20 years old? (Yes);
• Do you have your robes and your alms bowl? (Yes).

If these questions are answered truthfully and correctly, he is ordained.

.

Monks must observe 227 rules which govern their behavior. The five basic precepts, which ordained monks as well as lay men staying at a temple during the Buddhist Retreat must follow, are:

• Refrain from destroying living beings;
• Refrain from taking what is not given;
• Refrain from sexual misconduct;
• Refrain from false speech; and
• Refrain from taking intoxicants.

For the ordained monk, there are four cardinal rules which, if broken, result in his expulsion from the monkhood. These are:

• Engaging in sexual relations,
• Committing theft,
• Committing murder, and
• Cclaiming superhuman powers.

A monk in Thailand is treated with great respect, and the institution itself is highly revered. The Sangha is the officialOrder of Monks. It is part of a hierarchy headed by Thailand's Supreme Patricarch, who is named by the King and remains in his position until death. The Sangha is governed by the Ecclesiastical Council, a semi-governmental organization, and monks are given official identification cards and give up the national identity cards given them by the Thai government at the age of 15.

Becoming a monk in Thailand requires a rigorous life of moral precepts. The making of merit is emphasized in Thai Buddhism, as opposed to the goal of transcending karma as the Buddha did. Making merit, especially when it is merit given to someone else. such as family, is both legitimate and widely practiced in Thailand.

The monkhood, like all other aspects of Buddhism, is not necessarily a promise for life. Becoming a monk is intended as a way to attain a goal, for one's self or one's family. Any ordained monk may leave the order at any time he chooses simply by informing the abbot at his monestary.

[Willy Eckerslike]

In the "early" days before the RTP head-investigator was released they clearly were zooming in on the culprits. The RTP believed to have positively identified 2 suspects on the CCTV footage. Suspect 1: M, the manager of the AC bar & brother of the local head man & Suspect 2, NS, the son of the village headman who they believed fled to Bangkok. The police also stated that (and I quote) "

"Police earlier said the men are believed to have been in a bar and involved or watching a confrontation involving the British woman (Hannah) and followed the tourists as they left."

As mentioned before, my scenario will ONLY change if I can see independently verified DNA from the victims against fresh B2 samples, if that will not be case, I think THIS is what happened:

I believe the above statement by the RTP to be correct. Hannah was "targeted" the minute she walked in (possibly for a date rape) and was involved in some kind of hassle in the bar (maybe she saw people tried to KO-drop her). She left and was probably followed to "teach her a lesson", this is why some stories have popped up, the place where she was found is not where it all started. She was dragged to the beach by probably 4 or 5 wannabee bad boys.

As things evolved, David came home and must have seen/heard something, and tried to save her (right Sean?). He paid with his life, his injuries (on his body & face & his knuckles) showed he fought with his attackers, as per the RTP own statement.

He was drowned, stripped naked (they forgot one sock) , dropped a condom and painted a lovers rage scenario with Hannah put in position with her knees/legs up 45 degrees, I tell you, Picasso couldn't have done a better job. This also explains no DNA from David on the hoe, it explains his wounds (push knifes), it explains water in his lungs, it explains everything. Hannah was savagely hit with the hoe to paint the rage scenario or as some have said to "revenge" the loss of face on what happened in the bar earlier. They escaped KT by speedboats (Lucky Duck probably being one of them), M stayed behind to tamper & paint the crime-scene and also to oversee the investigation on what they knew.

The above is what I think happened, it is IMHO.......and I hope (although unlikely) some eyewitnesses will come forward to get these punks!

M & NS, they will get you!

In support of Krenjai, I found this old report from the Daily mirror if in need of more there are at least three reports for every day starting day 16 Sept,

This report is a recap of the investigation day 17th Sept, the main points I found interesting were that the forensics team searched Hanna's room twice????

"These pictures show police searching through an apartment where Hannah Witheridge stayed.

It is on the first floor of a hotel just 50 yards from where her body was found". "Police have now searched the room twice as they continue to hunt for the killer".

and the report on David's Fight for his life,

"David Miller bravely fought for his life shortly before he was battered to death, it is now being reported.

The 24-year-old is thought to have been involved in an intense struggle in the moments before he was killed".

British backpackers murdered in Thailand: Recap updates as police hunt for killer

Edited December 24, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[IslandLover]

berybert, on 24 Dec 2014 - 04:48, said:berybert, on 24 Dec 2014 - 04:48, said:

IslandLover, on 24 Dec 2014 - 04:34, said:IslandLover, on 24 Dec 2014 - 04:34, said:

In the light of what we now know about the fact that the British police did almost nothing during their visit to Thailand to "observe" the investigation into the Koh Tao murders, I'm beginning to understand why the victims' families put out those statements via the FCO.

I came across a post on another forum yesterday where the poster implied the families may have asked the U.K. police not to pursue the case any further because they want it all over and done with.

The poster went on to say poignantly that "they have been too silent and that's why I think they want all this to end regardless of justice" and "they have given up and walked away".

The above is only an opinion of course but it really struck a chord with me as it's what I've been thinking since I read those statements. Contrast this with the attitude of the families of Kirsty Jones and Nick Pierson.

It is apparent that the families have only seen the evidence provided by the RTP who are determined to see the B2 found guilty, despite compelling reasons to believe they are not guilty (which have been discussed at length on this forum). Personally, I think the best outcome would be for the B2 to be acquitted due to insufficient evidence and for the case to remain unsolved. Sadly, it would not provide closure for the families of David and Hannah but it would save two innocent men from a possible death sentence.

If both families are happy for 2 innocent guys to be put to death because they can have closure, then there really isn't much difference between them and anyone else who has been involved in this whole sorry mess. The sympathy I have for them would be wiped away PDQ is that was the case.

If the families have only seen evidence provided by the RTP which points to the guilt of the B2, then the families must think/believe they are guilty. That's the only explanation I can see for the statements they put out through the FCO. Most likely the families have little knowledge of the corruption in Thailand and how its judicial system works. None of us can truly understand the grief the families must be going through unless we have lost loved ones in such horrific circumstances, and I agree with you, the whole thing is a sorry mess.

Edited December 24, 2014 by IslandLover

[AleG]

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since the one you want to pin the ID on was not on the island at the time, it leaves only two options, of the two, in my opinion Zaw Lin has a resemblance to the man on the CCTV footage more than Win Zaw, specially the hairstyle (since then he had it cut).

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

Now do the same with the Burmese men.

Edit to add: and without resorting to cutting half the head off to get a "match"

Edited December 24, 2014 by AleG

[AleG]

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I am seeking the truth. If the B2 are shown via strong evidence to have been a part of the crime (even if they raped H after her death, or stole from the scene afterwards), then they should be punished for that. Strongest evidence, thus far, is the DNA match - yet it's veracity is seriously in doubt. That's why there would need to be supporting evidence from a DNA trail independently put together by Brit experts, to convince a skeptic like me.

One difference between me and AleG in relation to the crime investigation, is I'm open to the B2 being found guilty, if the evidence supports it. In contrast, AleG vehemently opposes anything which implicates any of the Headman's people, which include: Nomsod, Mon, Stingray man, or Mon's cop friend. That translates to 'shielding the Headman's people.'

The only doubt on the veracity of the DNA evidence is from people that spin conspiracy theories with not a shred of evidence to support them.

"One difference between me and AleG in relation to the crime investigation, is I'm open to the B2 being found guilty, if the evidence supports it. In contrast, AleG vehemently opposes anything which implicates any of the Headman's people"

Guess what, you are wrong.

[IslandLover]

BritTim, on 24 Dec 2014 - 05:22, said:

IslandLover, on 24 Dec 2014 - 04:34, said:

In the light of what we now know about the fact that the British police did almost nothing during their visit to Thailand to "observe" the investigation into the Koh Tao murders, I'm beginning to understand why the victims' families put out those statements via the FCO.

I came across a post on another forum yesterday where the poster implied the families may have asked the U.K. police not to pursue the case any further because they want it all over and done with.

The poster went on to say poignantly that "they have been too silent and that's why I think they want all this to end regardless of justice" and "they have given up and walked away".

The above is only an opinion of course but it really struck a chord with me as it's what I've been thinking since I read those statements. Contrast this with the attitude of the families of Kirsty Jones and Nick Pierson.

It is apparent that the families have only seen the evidence provided by the RTP who are determined to see the B2 found guilty, despite compelling reasons to believe they are not guilty (which have been discussed at length on this forum). Personally, I think the best outcome would be for the B2 to be acquitted due to insufficient evidence and for the case to remain unsolved. Sadly, it would not provide closure for the families of David and Hannah but it would save two innocent men from a possible death sentence.

My own reading of this is a little different.

Generally speaking, the UK authorities in such situations mainly want to avoid it developing into a diplomatic incident that can affect the overall ties between the countries. Up to a point, I am happy that the wider interests of UK citizens and UK businesses in Thailand are given importance. It is just that, in this case, the instinctive reaction has gone too far.

Given the UK authorities' priorities, how will be case have been handled? First, they appointed family liaison officers whose job is to create a buffer between the families and the Thai institutions plus the media. This potentially has positive aspects as it can reduce pressure on family members at a critical time. More importantly, from the UK's point of view, it allows them to avoid conflict between the families and Thailand. Their initial advice will have been to avoid talking to the media and to leave the liaison with the Thai authorities to them.

The UK police will have been sent with instructions to be diplomatic in their dealings with the RTP and just collect what information they can without ruffling feathers. Obviously, if the Burmese kids are being framed, the RTP will have chosen to tell the UK police little. They will, however, have been charming hosts and very reassuring in their statements that everything was done by the book.

The family liaison officers probably know very little about Thailand. What they will know is that high profile crimes usually give rise to all kinds of conspiracy theories. They will have done little to check whether the doubts raised in this case are well founded. The UK police will have returned and told both the liaison officers and the families that, based on what they observed in Thailand, they cannot refute the official RTP story. The liaison officers will have been telling the families not to pay attention to conspiracy stories they read in the media.

With the best of intentions, to reduce pressure on the families to become involved (and, incidentally, satisfying the UK authorities' primary objectives) the FCO and liaison officers will have helped the families draft and issue those unfortunate statements.

The above may not be 100% accurate, but I would bet from experience that it is not far from the truth.

Thank you for the additional clarity in your post and I truly hope that it is the case. By coincidence I have seen a recent post by the gf of David Miller where she talks about facts and not to believe the rubbish posted on social media, which bears out your theory somewhat. But just what are those facts? Those put out by the RTP? I fear the defence team has a hard road ahead.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Back on Topic, Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

BANGKOK: -- Statement from the family of Hannah Witheridge

"UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to observe and review the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit".

"Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process".

It is obvious now that the Brit police did not give the family's this information because they did not have it to give.

TIMELINE,

2nd Dec, Prosecutors extend for a further 12 days

3rd Dec, Prosecutors claim case against Koh Tao Myanmar pair is solid

Prosecutor also said Quote,

Tawatchai Seangchaew, who heads the Office of State Attorney Region 8, said yesterday that lingering doubt among social-media users may stem from the fact they have not seen all the evidence.

"When the case reaches the court, the two suspects will be brought to the courtroom. There, they can plead innocent or guilty. And the court will handle the rest," he said.

Tawatchai said parents of the victims would be notified about the progress in the case before the hearings start.

EDIT, Source: http://www.nationmul...i-30249057.html

5th Dec FCO releases statements from Parents..........................................

8th Dec, B2 Charged.....................

THE PROSECUTOR TOLD THE PARENTS NOT THE BRIT POLICE........................

PS, it is now Christmas have a gud un.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[balo]

"Those two factors, among others which implicate Nomsod, are going to continue to be hotly contested by the Gang of 4 and Thai officials , and it's obvious why: They're committed to shielding the Headman's people."

Is that something you tell yourself in the mirror in the morning, "the Gang of 4 are shielding the headman's people" to motivate yourself? Come down to reality.

\

I think the motivation for people posting here is to get the truth, and to give the two defendants an opportunity for a fair trial. Hopefully to make the rtp more accountable in the future. And hopefully make Thailand a safer place.

But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them. Especially from the way that the entire investigation was carried out. And knowing how money can buy out cops. Further more, I wonder why people need to defend the rtp statement if in their mind it's already true. If it's true, let it be and enjoy the show. Or is it their desire to convince themselves that it's true.

"But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them"

Yes, like who? Do you have any examples to share?

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since 80% of the workers on the island are not Thais but immigrants , there is a good chance the running man is a Burmese or of another nationality than Thai. So the most likely person is probably not a Thai . But not necessarily B2.

Edited December 24, 2014 by balo

[balo]

"But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them"

Yes, like who? Do you have any examples to share?

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since the one you want to pin the ID on was not on the island at the time, it leaves only two options, of the two, in my opinion Zaw Lin has a resemblance to the man on the CCTV footage more than Win Zaw, specially the hairstyle (since then he had it cut).

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

This is a photoshopped picture from CSI LA . What is your point ?

If you want me to I can make another picture of one of the Burmese guys and it would fit perfectly.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Four hospitals have now confirmed that the DNA samples taken Thursday from Warot Tuwichian do not match those taken from the Koh Tao murder scene ... "Mr Warot is not a suspect in the case but he has cooperated with us well. As far as the police are concerned, he was cleared long ago. We only did this [DNA tests] to comply with his wish to prove his innocence to the public....... http://bit.ly/1DNvcDB and BK Post

He was cleared long before offering his DNA because there was solid proof he was not on the island but somehow you will only believe speculation and disregard all things official unless you have specifics to an investigation that you are not part of and certainly have no business knowing about personal information about those not involved and there should be no reason to believe even slightly they were involved.

But really up to you if you want to stray into fantasy about a case that is pretty cut and dry with two defendants about to stand trial whose DNA was found in the victims and just from what we know there are witnesses and physical evidence tying them to the crime as well as UK Investigators, who have examined the case and evidence first hand and questioned Thai Police, who have indicated to the families the evidence is strong and credible and that there is more we don't even know about.

Hundreds of suspects ruled out, numerous leads and accusations from Police which didn't pan out and their ability to admit such-- never a fear of publicly accusing the headman's son and after weeks they found the right guys from the limited number of people on the island.

This really is what appears to be a very straight forward case and close to an open and shut one beyond the nonsense conspiracy theories that keep getting knocked down only to resurface by those desperate to feed their need for conspiracies and distrust of Thai authorities despite any rational reason to believe anyone else committed these crimes and any motivation to cover up for a person who did or any reason to believe the DNA does match except of an incident years ago which a person claimed non-uniformed cops kidnapped him and tried to get his sperm but failed then let him go on his merry way.

Regardless of the truth of the past incident -- ALL countries have histories of corrupt police and planting of evidence. Yes it should make people reasonable question police (one reason for trials) but the key is "reasonably" question and not go off into fantasy land. There is NOTHING in this case to suggest the DNA was planted or manipulated in a way to match the two defendants in fact there are a vast number of reason to make this theory completely implausible.

Things may have been handled sloppy in some respects and police may have went to far in getting a confession but nothing to indicate they don't have the right people in custody and A LOT that indicates they do.

Dislike.

+1 despicable

+1 disgusting

Reality

[thailandchilli]

REALITY

2 innocents murdered. Its Christmas and no justice in sight

Happy festivities everyone and spend 2 mins praying for truth and justice today for EVERYBODY involved in this dreadful event

Edited December 25, 2014 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

The only doubt on the veracity of the DNA evidence is from people that spin conspiracy theories with not a shred of evidence to support them.

.....and the prosecutors, who are on the same team as police investigators - otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes. We're not sure what Brit experts think, because thus far they're only talking to the RTP and the victims' families. Stroll around, and ask any Thais or farang who are following the investigation, and see how many believe the DNA evidence. You'd be lucky to find 1 in 50 who would say, "sure, the DNA trail from the RTP looks solid." Even Ms Porntip, Thailand's top forensic specialists, cast grave doubts on the DNA trail of this case.

I guess everyone is spinning conspiracy theories except the Gang of 4, and top officials on the case.

[boomerangutang]

I made a list of 17 people who were murdered by Thai VIP's between 2001 and 2004. Most were in the southern Thailand region, not far from Ko Tao. None of the murders were well investigated and (surprise!) none of the murderers or the VIP's who hired them were sentenced. The list showcases how cheap life is for southern Thais, and how inept (and vested) Thai cops are. Back then, and currently, cops are assigned to investigate murders, not trained investigators.

Jurin Ratchapol: because he took action against encroachments into a mangrove forest by influential people in Phuket. Killed, 2001.

Suwat Wongpiyasathit, campaigned against a garbage disposal project that produced foul smells and water pollution. She was shot dead a day before she was due to speak to a Senate committee on the environment. Killed, 2001.

Narin Bhothidaeng, led a protest to block a rock grinding plant run by a national politician. Killed, 2001.

Pitak Tonewut, opposed the building of a stone mill that encroached on a forest conservation area in Nakhon Sawan province. Killed, 2001.

Chaweewan Peeksungneon, obstructed bidding for construction projects by the TAO which favored local wealthy and influential people. Killed, 2001.

Somporn Chanapol, protested a dam construction project that obstructed the Kradae river, in Surat Thani. Killed, 2001.

Kaew Pinpanma: protested property take-over in Lamphun province. Killed, 2002.

Boonsom Nimnoi: protested the construction of a chemical factory in Petchaburis Baan Leam district. killed , 2002.

Preecha Thongpan: campaigned against a wastewater treatment project in Nakhon Sri Thammarats Tung Song district. Killed, 2002.

Boonrit Charnnarong: protested against illegal logging by forestry officials in Surat Thanis Tha Chana district. Killed, 2002.

Boonyong Intawong: protested against a rock grinding plant, Chiang Rai. Killed, 2002.

Boonsom Nimnoi, opposed a Phetchaburi plantation. Killed, 2002.

Khampan Suksai, tried to prevent an important person from encroaching into community forests. killed, 2003.

Chuan Chamnarnkit: campaigned against drug use in Nakhon Ratchasima. Killed, 2003.

Samnao Srisongkram, protested against a paper mill. Killed, 2003

Somchai Neelapaijit, was involved in cases against a proposed gas pipeline in the South. Killed, 2004.

Chareon Wataksorn, led successful campaign against building of power plant at Bo Nok. Killed, 2004.

[AleG]

The only doubt on the veracity of the DNA evidence is from people that spin conspiracy theories with not a shred of evidence to support them.

.....and the prosecutors, who are on the same team as police investigators - otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes. We're not sure what Brit experts think, because thus far they're only talking to the RTP and the victims' families. Stroll around, and ask any Thais or farang who are following the investigation, and see how many believe the DNA evidence. You'd be lucky to find 1 in 50 who would say, "sure, the DNA trail from the RTP looks solid." Even Ms Porntip, Thailand's top forensic specialists, cast grave doubts on the DNA trail of this case.

I guess everyone is spinning conspiracy theories except the Gang of 4, and top officials on the case.

As usual, your capacity to make things up knows no bounds.

"...otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes."

You just assume they sent it back because they doubted the veracity of the DNA.

I don't care what the people on the street say, in particular I don't care what you assume the people on the street say; now how about you provide a cite from Porntip Rojanasunan putting into question the veracity of the DNA evidence?

[AleG]

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

This is a photoshopped picture from CSI LA . What is your point ?

If you want me to I can make another picture of one of the Burmese guys and it would fit perfectly.

I think that picture is conclusive proof... that people want to see what they want to see.

It's almost comical, the only clear features in the image is the hair, while the face is an unrecognizable blur, what did the Photoshop Sherlock do? Remove the hair from Namsod and place his face over the CCTV footage, goodness me a perfect match! They both have human features on the face!

But hang on, he didn't cut all the hair, he left Nomsod's well defined sideburns in, the ones that in Nomsod clearly curve forward and in the CCTV image curve backwards.

This ranks even lower than the people that see Jesus on a slice of toast.

[boomerangutang]

The only doubt on the veracity of the DNA evidence is from people that spin conspiracy theories with not a shred of evidence to support them.

.....and the prosecutors, who are on the same team as police investigators - otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes. We're not sure what Brit experts think, because thus far they're only talking to the RTP and the victims' families. Stroll around, and ask any Thais or farang who are following the investigation, and see how many believe the DNA evidence. You'd be lucky to find 1 in 50 who would say, "sure, the DNA trail from the RTP looks solid." Even Ms Porntip, Thailand's top forensic specialists, cast grave doubts on the DNA trail of this case.

I guess everyone is spinning conspiracy theories except the Gang of 4, and top officials on the case.

As usual, your capacity to make things up knows no bounds.

"...otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes."

You just assume they sent it back because they doubted the veracity of the DNA.

I don't care what the people on the street say, in particular I don't care what you assume the people on the street say; now how about you provide a cite from Porntip Rojanasunan putting into question the veracity of the DNA evidence?

To answer your first sentence: 'yes.'

AleG makes sweeping assertions about the general public, as if they're all 'conspiracy theorists' then, when he's shown to be wrong, he comes back with 'I don't care what people on the street say.' Naturally, AleG doesn't care what people on the street say. Reason: People on the street (Thai, farang and Burmese who are familiar with this case) are nearly all of the opinion that the police are screwing up, they're framing the B2 and they're shielding the VIP's people. I've spoken with Burmese about this case, have you? Burmese are, generally, deeper thinkers than Thais. Sorry if this offends some people, but a Thai will give you a 'polite response' to a serious question, whereas a Burmese person will be more likely to give you a thoughtful response, even if the answer isn't what he/she thinks you want to hear.

There are a few links which show how Ms Porntip seriously questions the DNA trail.

So, with 3 times at bat (in his assertions): AleG struck out twice and walked.

[AleG]

The only doubt on the veracity of the DNA evidence is from people that spin conspiracy theories with not a shred of evidence to support them.

.....and the prosecutors, who are on the same team as police investigators - otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes. We're not sure what Brit experts think, because thus far they're only talking to the RTP and the victims' families. Stroll around, and ask any Thais or farang who are following the investigation, and see how many believe the DNA evidence. You'd be lucky to find 1 in 50 who would say, "sure, the DNA trail from the RTP looks solid." Even Ms Porntip, Thailand's top forensic specialists, cast grave doubts on the DNA trail of this case.

I guess everyone is spinning conspiracy theories except the Gang of 4, and top officials on the case.

As usual, your capacity to make things up knows no bounds.

"...otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly sent back the police report for re-writes."

You just assume they sent it back because they doubted the veracity of the DNA.

I don't care what the people on the street say, in particular I don't care what you assume the people on the street say; now how about you provide a cite from Porntip Rojanasunan putting into question the veracity of the DNA evidence?

To answer your first sentence: 'yes.'

AleG makes sweeping assertions about the general public, as if they're all 'conspiracy theorists' then, when he's shown to be wrong, he comes back with 'I don't care what people on the street say.' Naturally, AleG doesn't care what people on the street say. Reason: People on the street (Thai, farang and Burmese who are familiar with this case) are nearly all of the opinion that the police are screwing up, they're framing the B2 and they're shielding the VIP's people. I've spoken with Burmese about this case, have you? Burmese are, generally, deeper thinkers than Thais. Sorry if this offends some people, but a Thai will give you a 'polite response' to a serious question, whereas a Burmese person will be more likely to give you a thoughtful response, even if the answer isn't what he/she thinks you want to hear.

There are a few links which show how Ms Porntip seriously questions the DNA trail.

So, with 3 times at bat (in his assertions): AleG struck out twice and walked.

I make sweeping assertions? pffffff..

Boomerangutang:

Sweeping assertion Number One: "People on the street (Thai, farang and Burmese who are familiar with this case) are nearly all of the opinion that the police are screwing up, they're framing the B2 and they're shielding the VIP's people."

Sweeping assertion Number Two: "Burmese are, generally, deeper thinkers than Thais."

Sweeping assertion Number Three: "a Thai will give you a 'polite response' to a serious question, whereas a Burmese person will be more likely to give you a thoughtful response"

Basically the entirety of your post. Give me a break : rolleyes:

"There are a few links which show how Ms Porntip seriously questions the DNA trail."

Well, go on them, show me were she says that she doubts the veracity of the DNA results.

[fritzzz25]

Porntip, who is director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province, was weak and the results not fully trustworthy as police did not involve forensic specialists at the crime scene.

She added that since the police force handled the investigation on their own, the Thai public doubted the outcome of the case.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html

[JLCrab]

Porntip, who is director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province, was weak and the results not fully trustworthy as police did not involve forensic specialists at the crime scene.

She added that since the police force handled the investigation on their own, the Thai public doubted the outcome of the case.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html

Maybe Dr. Porntip is saying that in order for the DNA results to be 'fully trustworthy' she should have been in charge and things would have been done differently.

[spidermike007]

Tourism is way down, for the peak holiday season. All resort owners I have spoken with say the same thing. Most places are not fully booked, which is unusual for this time of year. My question is, do you think the bad press over this incident has anything to do with that? Is it perhaps responsible for 5% of tourists canceling their trips to Thailand a choosing a safer, or less controversial, less corrupt place to spend their holidays? I realize the Eurozone issues, the Russian currency and embargo crisis, the coup, the blundering government's bad press, and many other factors have to be taken into account. But, just wondering if this might be a factor. This case has gotten a lot of attention, and a lot of press.

[BritTim]

Tourism is way down, for the peak holiday season. All resort owners I have spoken with say the same thing. Most places are not fully booked, which is unusual for this time of year. My question is, do you think the bad press over this incident has anything to do with that? Is it perhaps responsible for 5% of tourists canceling their trips to Thailand a choosing a safer, or less controversial, less corrupt place to spend their holidays? I realize the Eurozone issues, the Russian currency and embargo crisis, the coup, the blundering government's bad press, and many other factors have to be taken into account. But, just wondering if this might be a factor. This case has gotten a lot of attention, and a lot of press.

I think, as far as domestic issues are concerned, martial law is the major factor, but this case may have had a marginal impact.

[AleG]

Porntip, who is director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province, was weak and the results not fully trustworthy as police did not involve forensic specialists at the crime scene.

She added that since the police force handled the investigation on their own, the Thai public doubted the outcome of the case.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html

And? Where does she dispute the veracity of the DNA testing? (that was not done at the crime scene)

Edited December 25, 2014 by AleG

[StealthEnergiser]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

[Mosha]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

That will make some people sad.

[Fat Haggis]

"But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them"

Yes, like who? Do you have any examples to share?

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since the one you want to pin the ID on was not on the island at the time, it leaves only two options, of the two, in my opinion Zaw Lin has a resemblance to the man on the CCTV footage more than Win Zaw, specially the hairstyle (since then he had it cut).

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

This is a photoshopped picture from CSI LA . What is your point ?

If you want me to I can make another picture of one of the Burmese guys and it would fit perfectly.

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

[StealthEnergiser]

Metropolitan police had 'observer status only' on visit to Thailand

The Metropolitan police have confirmed that British detectives who travelled to Thailand to look into concerns that had been raised about the investigation into the murder of Jerseyman David Miller and a fellow Brit, had observer status only.

During their visit at no point were the detectives given access to any physical or forensic evidence or interviews and statements that had been collected.

The police will release a report detailing their observations in January 2015, but will be for internal use only and will not be shared with the Thai authorities

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-12-23/metropolitan-police-had-observer-status-only-on-visit-to-thailand/

[Krenjai]

Metropolitan police had 'observer status only' on visit to Thailand

The Metropolitan police have confirmed that British detectives who travelled to Thailand to look into concerns that had been raised about the investigation into the murder of Jerseyman David Miller and a fellow Brit, had observer status only.

During their visit at no point were the detectives given access to any physical or forensic evidence or interviews and statements that had been collected.

The police will release a report detailing their observations in January 2015, but will be for internal use only and will not be shared with the Thai authorities

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2014-12-23/metropolitan-police-had-observer-status-only-on-visit-to-thailand/

Yes, observer status only....... never ever they questioned the integrity of the evidence ............they only observed. They might as well have used Skype. What was the point in going there in the first place? Never ever had they access to any physical or forensic evidence, they never interviewed one single witness nor did they meet with anybody from the defense team. What were they doing there? Eating Fried Rice with Som Tam? And the parents were happy with the results? C'mon! They will publish their findings in Jan, but only for internal use......yeah what else? There can't be lot in that report other than "we observed", "we were presented", "we read", "we were showed"..... and based on those observations the evidence appears to be powerful and convincing. Anybody knows the SkypeID from the RTP? I thought is was kohtaocoverup.

[AleG]

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

Since I actually saw a video your point is moot.

[z42]

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

Since I actually saw a video your point is moot.

The running man picture was also taken from a CCTV camera, the video can be seen clearly. Just type koh tao running man into youtube, google, bing or whatever. And Nomsod does that unmistakeable left hand tic. I hope you'll watch it but bet you won't

[boomerangutang]

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

Since I actually saw a video your point is moot.

The running man picture was also taken from a CCTV camera, the video can be seen clearly. Just type koh tao running man into youtube, google, bing or whatever. And Nomsod does that unmistakeable left hand tic. I hope you'll watch it but bet you won't

AleG has likely seen that footage. Yet for the 4 people on these threads who vehemently don't want to acknowledge any links from the crime to the Headman's people (including Nomsod), they won't see him in that clip, even though nearly everyone else following this case closely, sees him there. If I take a person outside and point out a bird sitting in a tree - That person won't see the bird if his eyes are closed tight, or if that person is fixated on refusing to acknowledge any bird could ever be sitting in that particular tree.