US needs to show it's still top dog

[LawrenceChee]

I'll say it again: the country who protects their nerds, rules the world.

The idea is linked in here, an essay by LISP creator and angel investor Paul Graham:

http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html

He argues that Europe became a superpower, source of invention and science, etc., simply because its governance system allowed people who made money to keep it. Once you allow this, people have the incentive to generate wealth and value merely by creating it, rather than stealing it. More on this in that article, but he makes a crucial point as regards military power:

He points out that the inventor of the stealth fighter technology was Russian. The good Russians are very capable of generating wealth and value, but Russia did not have the computer industry necessary to implement the new technology, which Graham asserts is a simple result of the fact that nerds in Russia have their lunch money stolen by the reigning mobsters; there is no system in place by which their creatives are free to generate wealth and keep the proceeds of what they do. So naturally many/most of Russia's finest fled overseas, to the benefit of the countries they fled to.

Something similar I believe - and this is tentative - applies in the current-day PRC: one case that comes to mind (by word-of-mouth as I don't remember the specifics) is: the technology for QQ, a popular P2P network in China, was stolen by the nerds who invented it, by the better-connected TenCent company. People who are well-connected in China are the ones who keep the wealth/value generated by the nerds, so again there is not the foundation in place for a sustainable system.

As far as other groups who want to take greater control: well there's the Islamofascists, but their ideas are flawed because you can't move forward in the 21st century with 7th century idealogy (they wouldn't be able to create the cell phone technology necessary to explode their murderous bombs). Winston Churchill noted the same thing a century ago: the only reason Europe hasn't been overtaken by Islamists is due to its science and knowledge. Africa won't due to corruption problems, perhaps same with South America.

So if Graham is correct, the question is: which countries DO protect their nerds and let them keep their lunch money?

The long and the short of it is that free and open societies advance because they become dynamic. Old and restrictive ones stagnate or regress. This has been the central characteristc of the world over the past 300 years. This reality will remain so foreseeably.

It's a great stimulus for the CCP when they read things like this and understand this is the motivation to do better , be better and do more and talk less

Which is what some countries are really apt at doing ....talking ...talking ...talking

Real progression ...wonder why there continue to have street protests ...perhaps the man in the street disagree it's equal and just as yet

Edited December 15, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[Choctastic]

Doesn't say nothing, really.

A double negative is a positive.

Unless one is bent on connecting imaginary dots on imaginary lines.

Your lack of imagination is noted.

Chicago political 'mob' + FED board member = the epitome of 'banker gangster'. Put her in the White House with all the other 'Israeli-firsters' and you get today's 'unbreakable bond', one of the man causes of the U.S loss of prestige around the world.

[Ulysses G.]

"...a brilliant strategist and thinker who practically runs both wings of the White House and who did as much or more than anyone to put the Obamas there.

Entire article here: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/January-2014/The-Mysteries-and-Realities-of-Valerie-Jarrett-Mystery-Woman-of-the-White-House/

'...chairman of the board of the Chicago Stock Exchange; a director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago'

Says it all, really.

Connecting the dots... http://blogs.forward.com/the-shmooze/135922/presidential-aide-valerie-jarrett-discloses-her-je/

Doesn't say nothing, really. Unless one is bent on connecting imaginary dots on imaginary lines.

Indeed. Very imaginary.

[F430murci]

The odds is USA will crash faster than China is more real

China has the correct leadership to firmly deal with the shadow loans etc and have the time and the reserves to correct this and the markets will adjust slowly to a slower China. I have been talking about this since last year because they realized they have to take firm action lest they follow USA into auto destruction of their own economy

USA on the other hand while still attempting to correct themselves doesn't have any firm leadership in place and a bi partisan government that is never going to work together ever unless there is camera kiss ass time

The only time they agree is to approve budgets to keep the government afloat as they cannot bring themselves to the realities of a Greece bailout or government revamp as the politics is difficult to steer through on whose agendas is more important

Either one crashing will bring devastating results to all the pensioners here on this forum depending on that social security check

I doubt there are many here depending on the CCP handout. I being ever Chinese have gold bars as my own backup

Lol, always the need to try and measure up on a macro level. What does that say about the micro level?

As I said early on, Americans don't care or think about this stuff as they are generally happy and content with their lives. The vast majority 9 out of 10 cares little about or even keeps up with China, Russia and other countries on a global or economic scale. They just don't care.

This too dog mentality is much more of an Asian or European manner of thinking and is one of two things: (1) a rallying cry US politicians try to use to ignite support in its base; or (2) an attitude that emanates from Asian and Eastern European countries where life sucks on a micro level so national pride on a macro level becomes the compensatin factor and focal point of their lives.

Off topic but sad . . . Speaking to friends in Ukraine and they now have blackouts every night from 5:00 to 10:00. Point being, we all need to stop our incessant whinning about what ifs and what could bes and be great full for what we have. There are many people out there going through very difficult times right now.

[Publicus]

"I am pretty sure that if one checks Obama's advisers, staff and people getting to whisper in his ear there are bound to be representatives related to many potential interest groups"

Reading that last sentence, the name that springs to mind is his closest adviser...Valerie Jarrett.

American citizen, born (and raised partly) in Iran.

My point was rather that laying unfounded blame based on partial biographical bits taken out of context is a slippery slope.

Perhaps something like this article from Chicago media will make that slope a little less slippery.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Truth About Valerie Jarrett, Mystery Woman of the White House

PUBLISHED JAN. 31, 2014, AT 10:06 A.M.

From the article:

"Others in media and Washington circles portray Jarrett, who held top positions in Chicago government and business, as a brilliant strategist and thinker who practically runs both wings of the White House and who did as much or more than anyone to put the Obamas there. In 1991, Jarrett, then Mayor Rich Daley’s deputy chief of staff, offered Michelle Robinson a job in City Hall. Before Michelle accepted, she insisted that Jarrett meet with Michelle’s fiancé Barack Obama. Jarrett promptly took both under her wing and, over the years, introduced Barack to the inner Daley circle, to wealthy business people, and to the people who mattered in her enclave, Hyde Park—all of which helped Obama as he moved up from community organizer to Springfield to Washington."

Entire article here: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/January-2014/The-Mysteries-and-Realities-of-Valerie-Jarrett-Mystery-Woman-of-the-White-House/

Careers and professions are about networking and everyone knows it. The Obamas network just as everyone else does, to include the Bushes who have been networking Wall Street, Washington, the Ivy League deep back into history to include when a Walker Bush was a slave trader.

To many people everything George.Walker Bush did was wrong and to a hard core of others everything Barack Obama does is wrong, and that's all this is about, nothing more. To keep up the constant barrage of everything in a framework of a concocted negativity.

[chuckd]

"I am pretty sure that if one checks Obama's advisers, staff and people getting to whisper in his ear there are bound to be representatives related to many potential interest groups"

Reading that last sentence, the name that springs to mind is his closest adviser...Valerie Jarrett.

American citizen, born (and raised partly) in Iran.

My point was rather that laying unfounded blame based on partial biographical bits taken out of context is a slippery slope.

Perhaps something like this article from Chicago media will make that slope a little less slippery.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Truth About Valerie Jarrett, Mystery Woman of the White House

PUBLISHED JAN. 31, 2014, AT 10:06 A.M.

From the article:

"Others in media and Washington circles portray Jarrett, who held top positions in Chicago government and business, as a brilliant strategist and thinker who practically runs both wings of the White House and who did as much or more than anyone to put the Obamas there. In 1991, Jarrett, then Mayor Rich Daley’s deputy chief of staff, offered Michelle Robinson a job in City Hall. Before Michelle accepted, she insisted that Jarrett meet with Michelle’s fiancé Barack Obama. Jarrett promptly took both under her wing and, over the years, introduced Barack to the inner Daley circle, to wealthy business people, and to the people who mattered in her enclave, Hyde Park—all of which helped Obama as he moved up from community organizer to Springfield to Washington."

Entire article here: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/January-2014/The-Mysteries-and-Realities-of-Valerie-Jarrett-Mystery-Woman-of-the-White-House/

Careers and professions are about networking and everyone knows it. The Obamas network just as everyone else does, to include the Bushes who have been networking Wall Street, Washington, the Ivy League deep back into history to include when a Walker Bush was a slave trader.

To many people everything George.Walker Bush did was wrong and to a hard core of others everything Barack Obama does is wrong, and that's all this is about, nothing more. To keep up the constant barrage of everything in a framework of a concocted negativity.

The question was who was Obama's most trusted adviser. I provided the answer.

She is Valerie Jarrett.

[Publicus]

Would that be the Valerie Jarrett born in Iran as your post points out. The Birthers don't miss much as one can plainly see....birthers would have a jolly time these daze in merry Old England.

There is some opinion about the assertion you promote but then one might do well to speak with Michelle or Barack or necessarily each, as well as others who have worked under the same roof as the three and are willing to speak reasonably openly and fairly frankly about it, and there are those who sooner or later do do that sort of thing.

The books of the principals will be upon us in the not distant future, which will allow us to read the lines and between the lines of each of them and to further assess the relationships, interactions, influences.

Having a trusted adviser is after all an asset many of us value. (It certainly would beat having a not trusted adviser!) Or, as Harry Truman once remarked, if you want a friend in Washington get a dog.

List of foreign-born United States Cabinet Secretaries

In the 20th century, nine foreign-born individuals were appointed to the Cabinet, including German-born Oscar Straus and Mexican-born George Romney, father of former Governor of Massachusetts and the 2012 Republican U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney.^[7] During the tenure of President George W. Bush, three more foreign-born individuals were appointed to the Cabinet—Elaine L. Chao, Mel Martinez in 2001 and Carlos Gutierrez in 2005.^[1] Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell is the only current foreign-born secretary.

The Department of Treasury has had the most foreign-born Secretaries, with five. Department of Labor and Interior follow with three, and the departments of Housing and Urban Development and State have each had two. Former Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright were the highest-ranking foreign-born Cabinet members ever in accordance to the United States presidential line of succession.^[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_United_States_Cabinet_Secretaries

Edited December 15, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The odds is USA will crash faster than China is more real

China has the correct leadership to firmly deal with the shadow loans etc and have the time and the reserves to correct this and the markets will adjust slowly to a slower China. I have been talking about this since last year because they realized they have to take firm action lest they follow USA into auto destruction of their own economy

USA on the other hand while still attempting to correct themselves doesn't have any firm leadership in place and a bi partisan government that is never going to work together ever unless there is camera kiss ass time

The only time they agree is to approve budgets to keep the government afloat as they cannot bring themselves to the realities of a Greece bailout or government revamp as the politics is difficult to steer through on whose agendas is more important

Either one crashing will bring devastating results to all the pensioners here on this forum depending on that social security check

I doubt there are many here depending on the CCP handout. I being ever Chinese have gold bars as my own backup

That is almost precisely what 1 billion PRChinese say with exact precision.

(Save the last two lines.)

The Great Crash of China will be almost exclusively limited to the CCP and its PRC. It will have little impact on the world and certainly none on fahlang in these parts.

The CCP's banks serve only the CCP, as do the equity markets, the housing and real estate markets, the financial sector, trade, tourism, industry, commerce, education, military hardware and so on. Foreign capital has been flowing out of the PRC for two years, fleeing since March when Nomura Securities famously became the first to call the housing and property bubbles beginning their long expected bursting.

Australia and Africa will take a heavy hit, Thailand and fahlang in Thailand will hear and see the crash but will not feel it.

The splat of the CCP on the pavement will mean nothing to global capital markets, labor markets....almost any market one can name to include the money markets. The CCP;s economy and financial systems, its money and all else are contained within its borders and that is where the hurt will occur.

The CCP's talk in 2012 of opening its shallow and weak capital markets to foreign pension funds proved to be unattractive to pension fund investors globally, and the timing was poor besides, given 2012 was the year foreign capital began to move smartly out of the PRC along with a lot of very rich PRChinese who relocated abroad in record numbers that continue to rise.

[LawrenceChee]

Interesting take ....well for the crash to happen ...the CCP predicts it will take about 15-40 years of mismanagement so they are grinding it to a stop now and reversing it and they have time

Some of the keyboard folks here seems sure it will only be limited to China and Australia ...and a few smaller countries

As the yuan denominated trade continues to increase in 40 years time, the Chinese have learnt the from Singapore the best defense is economic defense ...for those that keep predicting it will crash

I hope you have an alternative place besides that social security check keeping you alive and paying for your DTAC bills ...you will feel the pain for sure if it's crashes

I on my part hope countries will continue to prosper and understand the rotation of superpowers is normal ...funny how some are up in arms just because it is China's turn ..I guess that deep set racism or just dimwit behavior Asians cannot be that successful is still sticking inside

Sad very sad ....enjoying my Mcd brekkie now go USA ! I love Mcd ! USA is top dog in marketing and happy meals ...no one comes close to that as yet !

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[Ulysses G.]

I on my part hope countries will continue to prosper and understand the rotation of superpowers is normal ...funny how some are up in arms just because it is China's turn ..I guess that deep set racism or just dimwit behavior Asians cannot be that successful is still sticking inside

More about the Communist Government, lack of basis freedoms and how they have treated their own citizens for decades. I just don't trust them not to try to inflict their system on the rest of the world.

[LawrenceChee]

I on my part hope countries will continue to prosper and understand the rotation of superpowers is normal ...funny how some are up in arms just because it is China's turn ..I guess that deep set racism or just dimwit behavior Asians cannot be that successful is still sticking inside

More about the Communist Government, lack of basis freedoms and how they have treated their own citizens for decades. I just don't trust them not to try to inflict their system on the rest of the world.

Comparing that to Russia ...I think most agree China has been progressing well and will continue to do better and better in its progression on all fronts including human rights

I am unsure why people are prone to just beat China up constantly over human rights and think that hackling mentality actually helps improves things

Every lesson made the Chinese an improved lot ....from earthquake rescues to their restraint with the recent HK protests ...China have shown maturity and will continue to learn from the Scandinavians government how to handle these better

They are most keen to see how the Norwegians have the lowest re-jailing records in the world in keeping jails as reformative rather than punitive like some Wild West jails

The Chinese CCP are learning fast ...for some remember how you use to mock the asian nerdy students on freshman day that they cannot speak English and look silly in their floral dresses ....

we all remember how silly we look later when they score all the As in classes and later bloom into a hot bod you really fantasize about but by then they are out of your league as they have learnt fast the silly courtship and what a real gentleman looks like

As for treating their own citizens rightly or wrongly ...I suppose it's peach perfect in some other countries ...there is no racism, no police state behavior and all is holly and Molly and everyone has freedom

Live in that dream ...it's a beautiful fantasy

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[squarethecircle]

Well since the discussion seems to be about PRC, perhaps understandable given we're in Asia, I have a new anecdote that's worthwhile.

Friend in China, from Wuhan, has worked hard his entire life to fulfill the dream of study abroad. He comes from a regular working class family but put in his all, speaks very good English and French, has curiosity and drive, and was accepted to study abroad in New Zealand and Canada. He chose NZ due to thoughts the visa would be easier. Certainly the sort of person an intelligent and enlightened government would help with all its resources.

Unfortunately China's government stipulates that any study abroad students have 100,000 RMB in the bank account - at the standard Chinese salary rate of 2,000 RMB per month, this represents over 4 years of labor. Despite his father's efforts to raise the necessary funds, he was unable to have an account with the necessary funds, which he found at just yesterday and was reportedly in tears, so his dream is squashed. I will still try to help him regardless.

Meanwhile with a quick visit to cities like Vancouver - or Googling a recent Youtube video by ViceNews on the cars of PRChinese in LA -
you can see the wealth of the CCP and their youngsters - though it's not just those jerks who are like this, Taiwan's KMT also sends its spoilt children overseas, much like their counterparts in Russia's elite. These new PRChinese immigrants are a different sort than the ones I grew up with, who were primarily children of talented Chinese who immigrated.

It's pretty clear that the governments of China and Russia have chosen to enrich themselves rather than take the steps necessary to enrich the people at large. The leaders can issue all the imperial dictates they like but it doesn't refute the basic points Paul Graham makes. Notably, the American president Mr. Obama recently issued a request to US corporations to report any losses due to hacking from the PRC - it seems that China's government is not content with milking the wealth off its own nerds and in fact is aggressively seeking to steal from the nerds of other countries.

I'd say they'd do better copying off of Korea and Japan, both of whom have done a good job of the reverse-engineering-and-improving-it-to-a-better-version-of-the-original strategy.

Edited December 16, 2014 by squarethecircle

[squarethecircle]

That's the thing with nerds, they're always one step ahead of the game. It was nerds who built the atom bomb and nerds who dropped it on imperial Japan in 1945, for example, even though the same nerds would have been defeated in standard combat by Japan's brutal soldiers.

No point in trying to get ahead being a bully in the lunchroom when all the action is going on in the computer lab.

[LawrenceChee]

Well since the discussion seems to be about PRC, perhaps understandable given we're in Asia, I have a new anecdote that's worthwhile.

Friend in China, from Wuhan, has worked hard his entire life to fulfill the dream of study abroad. He comes from a regular working class family but put in his all, speaks very good English and French, has curiosity and drive, and was accepted to study abroad in New Zealand and Canada. He chose NZ due to thoughts the visa would be easier. Certainly the sort of person an intelligent and enlightened government would help with all its resources.

Unfortunately China's government stipulates that any study abroad students have 100,000 RMB in the bank account - at the standard Chinese salary rate of 2,000 RMB per month, this represents over 4 years of labor. Despite his father's efforts to raise the necessary funds, he was unable to have an account with the necessary funds, which he found at just yesterday and was reportedly in tears, so his dream is squashed. I will still try to help him regardless.

Meanwhile with a quick visit to cities like Vancouver - or Googling a recent Youtube video by ViceNews on the cars of PRChinese in LA -

you can see the wealth of the CCP and their youngsters - though it's not just those jerks who are like this, Taiwan's KMT also sends its spoilt children overseas, much like their counterparts in Russia's elite. These new PRChinese immigrants are a different sort than the ones I grew up with, who were primarily children of talented Chinese who immigrated.

It's pretty clear that the governments of China and Russia have chosen to enrich themselves rather than take the steps necessary to enrich the people at large. The leaders can issue all the imperial dictates they like but it doesn't refute the basic points Paul Graham makes. Notably, the American president Mr. Obama recently issued a request to US corporations to report any losses due to hacking from the PRC - it seems that China's government is not content with milking the wealth off its own nerds and in fact is aggressively seeking to steal from the nerds of other countries.

I'd say they'd do better copying off of Korea and Japan, both of whom have done a good job of the reverse-engineering-and-improving-it-to-a-better-version-of-the-original strategy.

In all fairness ....I think what you are describing here can happen in any big city ....any country and not just China

With 1.3 billion and having to be fair to be true to its communist roots ...it's not just about resources right as you cant help everyone

Plenty of bureaucracy worldwide that stifles a dream and not everyone realizes his dream

I am glad to hear you will try to help him out ...lots have benefited from the generosity of others and I hope it's pays forward for you.

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Like it or not, US will always be the world leader.

Which nation is capable to do what they do? And of those nations, which ones could be trusted globally?

Not necessarily. Usa's position is only a small period in history. The have been other empires in the past, many lasted longer than current blip that usa thinks will last forever (a dangerous form of hubris for the rest of the world - one sole superpower that uses whatever means to ensure its citizens and values rank over all others).

I think it is better not to have one sole superpower because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who cares if it's China or Russia or some other bloc like the EU that may have ascendancy in the future. The world needs another power to counter the existing one that may or may not recover is moral compass.

"The USA's position is only a small period in history" this may be true however we are all living through that small period in history and it will not likely end in my or my childrens lifetime What happens in the world 200 hundred years from now really has no effect on me or you, and as far as this "moral compass" BS goes, it just shows your complete lack of comprehension of world history my friend If you want to be politically correct and all touchy feeley and claim the "moral" high ground that's fine go right ahead, but the problem that folks like you have is that you want to rewrite the history of mankind to fit your perfect little "moral high ground" world and it just doesn't fly my friend as much as you might want to wish it so

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The odds is USA will crash faster than China is more real

China has the correct leadership to firmly deal with the shadow loans etc and have the time and the reserves to correct this and the markets will adjust slowly to a slower China. I have been talking about this since last year because they realized they have to take firm action lest they follow USA into auto destruction of their own economy

USA on the other hand while still attempting to correct themselves doesn't have any firm leadership in place and a bi partisan government that is never going to work together ever unless there is camera kiss ass time

The only time they agree is to approve budgets to keep the government afloat as they cannot bring themselves to the realities of a Greece bailout or government revamp as the politics is difficult to steer through on whose agendas is more important

Either one crashing will bring devastating results to all the pensioners here on this forum depending on that social security check

I doubt there are many here depending on the CCP handout. I being ever Chinese have gold bars as my own backup

Larry, I'm glad to hear that you have gold bars and not mainland Chinese real estate as your "backup", because the latter is in the early stages of a very large bubble bursting, and this will eventually uncover the shadow banking system in China Over the next 10-20 years the Chinese government will have their hands full dealing with massive air and water pollution as well as internal strife

[Publicus]

I on my part hope countries will continue to prosper and understand the rotation of superpowers is normal ...funny how some are up in arms just because it is China's turn ..I guess that deep set racism or just dimwit behavior Asians cannot be that successful is still sticking inside

More about the Communist Government, lack of basis freedoms and how they have treated their own citizens for decades. I just don't trust them not to try to inflict their system on the rest of the world.

That is the reality of it indeed, as the CCP lavishes its high praise on Robert Mugabe when he visits Beijing while scolding severely against democracy any where, any time, by any one under any circumstances. The first Chinese person chosen for a Nobel Prize, Dr. Liu Xiaobo who received the Peace Award in 2010, was in prison at the time for having advocated a transition to democracy in the PRC that would be gradual, peaceful, orderly, developmental,

This rise and fall of empires is central to the thinking and to the belief of the CCP and the PRChinese people alike as is demonstrated in the quoted post. It seems to be a vestige of several millennia of history during which this was true.

The Chinese fail however to recognize the Soviet Union was the last empire of history. It was not of course the end of history as Francis Fukuyama had proclaimed, but it was the last empire. This ancient thinking that has empires in the 21st century is creating a dangerous hubris in China that the Chinese have no awareness of as such.

Moreover, the Chinese believe they have led the world for 5000 years, that the US are the new kids on the block that are nothing more than a flash in the pan. This is the ossified view and the ethnocentric belief system of the people who have isolated themselves for thousands of years after convincing themselves they are the Middle Kingdom of the earth. Nothing good will come of this mindset and attitude.

[LawrenceChee]

I assume some when they speak with authority of 5000 years of opinions are actually historians of some sorts and have an opportunity to speak with the leaders to gain insights

If not ...I guess these are just fancy hate driven comments that doesn't help the progress of China or the world in general and rhetorics

I can say with certainty that China is well aware of the challenges of its pollution ( a trade off of development and western dumping manufacturing methods that cannot be done back home)

They want to correct it , they want to fix it and it starts with slower growth

which is happening and I have posted this on the forum.

As for the shadows loans etc, it's a problems , it's real and it needs to be fixed ...the thing the Chinese government have in terms of an advantage is they know who the President is and he has no fear for the next 10 years of bi partisan fighting ...so basically President Xi has 8.5 years to set the ball rolling to fix this and set the foundations right and he has done so by executing phase 1 which is to eliminate corruption.

The west have talked a lot about corruption but looking at records have done nothing much to jail or severely punish these individuals

Within the CCP we also know who the next President is for the next 10 years after Xi steps down and we cannot announce it yet and again it means we have continuity and that's an advantage when you deal with a problem of this scale that the next person doesn't come in and try to dismantle everything in the name of self pride and vanity

Not everyone will agree but it works for China.

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[LawrenceChee]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The odds is USA will crash faster than China is more real

China has the correct leadership to firmly deal with the shadow loans etc and have the time and the reserves to correct this and the markets will adjust slowly to a slower China. I have been talking about this since last year because they realized they have to take firm action lest they follow USA into auto destruction of their own economy

USA on the other hand while still attempting to correct themselves doesn't have any firm leadership in place and a bi partisan government that is never going to work together ever unless there is camera kiss ass time

The only time they agree is to approve budgets to keep the government afloat as they cannot bring themselves to the realities of a Greece bailout or government revamp as the politics is difficult to steer through on whose agendas is more important

Either one crashing will bring devastating results to all the pensioners here on this forum depending on that social security check

I doubt there are many here depending on the CCP handout. I being ever Chinese have gold bars as my own backup

Larry, I'm glad to hear that you have gold bars and not mainland Chinese real estate as your "backup", because the latter is in the early stages of a very large bubble bursting, and this will eventually uncover the shadow banking system in China Over the next 10-20 years the Chinese government will have their hands full dealing with massive air and water pollution as well as internal strife

Cambodia still paying 7% fixed deposit interest if you can stomach the risk ...I posted that info on the forum cambodia banking thread

Lots of great opportunity everywhere to park cash at mate ...USA is also another location with value priced properties

Diversity is the key ...good luck !

[LawrenceChee]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[metisdead]

An inflammatory baiting post has been removed.

[F430murci]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

No one wants to see China fail. No one hates China or Chinese. You just stir up crap with your US going to fail before China, China in better shape than US rhetoric that you pretty much do on every thread. This simply sparks people to point out where fundamentally, the US is in much better shape than China economically. Then you play that pitiful everyone just hates China and wants to see it fail when people don't agree with you.

Curious what you do. You are obviously educated and successful as you travel a lot for business and most Chinese cannot afford a plane ticket anywhere based on Gini coefficient on China's income inequality. You write English very well as a second language. That is cool and I respect all people who make the commitment to become well educated.

Why I ask what you do is because I cannot reconcile whether you are just uneducated in matters if finance and economics imications or your thought process is shaped and influenced by you country of origin.

You completely miss the mark on economical and financial issues in Russia and everything you say about the US is grade school level type of rhetoric you get from the Internet or news papers like US today from writers with no background, education o comprehension of finance and economics. Having journalism degree does not make one an expert in financial matters and most articles like these are written to be understand by people with little or no education and comprehension of these very intricate and complicated matters.

[Asiantravel]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

Lawrence I am interested in your views on China's claim to the South China Sea and in particular a number of islands including the area which the Philippines is also claiming.

China has just this week firmly rejected any suggestion of international arbitration, although it did say it could be willing to enter talks with countries like the Philippines and Vietnam directly but it is totally against the idea of " internationalising " the negotiations.

No doubt you are aware of the huge artificial island that is being constructed by China and aerial views now clearly reveal there will be a massive runway. It's clear China means business regarding this issue.

I have read several articles which claim that this will all end in China and USA (on behalf of the Philippines) going to war over this matter. Do you concur?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Asiantravel

[A1Str8]

Has never been.

[LawrenceChee]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

Lawrence I am interested in your views on China's claim to the South China Sea and in particular a number of islands including the area which the Philippines is also claiming.

China has just this week firmly rejected any suggestion of international arbitration, although it did say it could be willing to enter talks with countries like the Philippines and Vietnam directly but it is totally against the idea of " internationalising " the negotiations.

No doubt you are aware of the huge artificial island that is being constructed by China and aerial views now clearly reveal there will be a massive runway. It's clear China means business regarding this issue.

I have read several articles which claim that this will all end in China and USA (on behalf of the Philippines) going to war over this matter. Do you concur?

While I am never the decision maker on this ...every discussion on this at the CCP local level in the south indicates a war is never on the table and certainly not with the USA

They will resolutely defend their claims based on their historical records and also know in the international playing field, it's political suicide to press their claims in any forcible manner and they won't

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott

[LawrenceChee]

I'm not an economist or journalist.

My postings never played the pitiful card as that's pathetic behavior.

I have tried in my postings to present a balanced view on China and how it wants to engage the world.

There are a few posters who inevitably bait me into a reaction based on racist remarks and if I have given the impression to be brazen , I would be the first to apologize as I believe a world that understands China can actually help it be a better nation for all. It has 1.3 billion people and growing and a successful China will also mean in many ways better collaboration with others on the world scenes.

Personally I am dead against corruption , pollution based on irresponsible manufacturing methods and wish in my lifetime I would have done my bit to help China be better ...it probably won't happen in my generation ..but I would wish for my future generation to be able to visit China and not wear a face mask in Beijing or Guangzhou.

English is my first language although I am effectively bilingual and fluent in a few southern dialects as well. Not being a stickler but I did spot a few errors in your spelling

Edited December 16, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[Publicus]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

Lawrence I am interested in your views on China's claim to the South China Sea and in particular a number of islands including the area which the Philippines is also claiming.

China has just this week firmly rejected any suggestion of international arbitration, although it did say it could be willing to enter talks with countries like the Philippines and Vietnam directly but it is totally against the idea of " internationalising " the negotiations.

No doubt you are aware of the huge artificial island that is being constructed by China and aerial views now clearly reveal there will be a massive runway. It's clear China means business regarding this issue.

I have read several articles which claim that this will all end in China and USA (on behalf of the Philippines) going to war over this matter. Do you concur?

While I am never the decision maker on this ...every discussion on this at the CCP local level in the south indicates a war is never on the table and certainly not with the USA

They will resolutely defend their claims based on their historical records and also know in the international playing field , it's political suicide to press their claims in any forcible manner and they won't

The CCP strategy of the Boyz in Beijing is to separate the United States from its treaty allies and other friendly governments in the Indo-Pacific strategic region.

The means towards this goal is to force a military confrontation against the United States in the South China Sea, or in the East Sea directed against another US treaty ally, Japan.

The Boyz believe the US will not fight and will back down. This is indeed suicide. But the CCP Boyz believe they can separate the US from its allies in the region and that this is the way to do it because the Americans and the American people are "cowards" who will not fight.

The CCP isn't looking to start a world war or any such thing, nor does it believe any kind of war will result from this strategic approach. The CCP Boyz in Beijing simply believe the US won't fight to defend its allies and that is the way to separate this region of the world from US influence. This in turn would make the CCP Boyz in Beijing the regional power they would need to become before they could go on to become the world's superpower.

The Boyz know that before they can become a global power they must first become a regional power. The Boyz know that asserting their control over the South China Sea, Asean, the East Sea and Japan would cement this nefarious undertaking, and they believe they can succeed.

And this is why the Pentagon, the president, the congress in 2010 officially adopted the new US military doctrine of AirSea Battle (ASB). Any military provocation or confrontation in these parts will be dealt with and dispatched immediately, decisively and with severity.

What is Air-Sea Battle? China has invested heavily during the past decade in precision missile systems and sophisticated radar designed to keep U.S. ships and fighter jets beyond the inner island chain shown below. Air-Sea Battle is the U.S. military’s concept for disabling those systems using long-range bombers and submarines. The concept is designed not so much to fight a war as to convince the Chinese that any conflict with U.S. forces would be long and costly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/what-is-air-sea-battle/2012/08/01/gJQAlGr7PX_graphic.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-model-for-a-future-war-fans-tensions-with-china-and-inside-pentagon/2012/08/01/gJQAC6F8PX_story.html

Edited December 16, 2014 by Publicus

[F430murci]

I'm not an economist or journalist.

My postings never played the pitiful card as that's pathetic behavior.

I have tried in my postings to present a balanced view on China and how it wants to engage the world.

There are a few posters who inevitably bait me into a reaction based on racist remarks and if I have given the impression to be brazen , I would be the first to apologize as I believe a world that understands China can actually help it be a better nation for all. It has 1.3 billion people and growing and a successful China will also mean in many ways better collaboration with others on the world scenes.

Personally I am dead against corruption , pollution based on irresponsible manufacturing methods and wish in my lifetime I would have done my bit to help China be better ...it probably won't happen in my generation ..but I would wish for my future generation to be able to visit China and not wear a face mask in Beijing or Guangzhou.

English is my first language although I am effectively bilingual and fluent in a few southern dialects as well. Not being a stickler but I did spot a few errors in your spelling

I will you straight up, I have nothing against Chinese or Russians. I married a Russian and some of the smartest people I have met and people I respect most in life are Chinese friends. I have dated Chinese women that were nothing but amazing people from an intellectual and personal stand point.

I really want to see the super powers work together to better the world. I only have problems with some if these nutty little ME countries that cannot get their s@@@ together and try and cause problems for the rest of the world.

[F430murci]

I do understand there are some Chinese haters who really want to see the CCP fail

I don't think it's going to happen ...they are not perfect but they are learning fast from the mistakes and best practices the western governments made

Eg ...they do not use human rights as reasons for trade ...opening up markets for themselves with ease in Africa ...critics would say the Mugabe was an idiot but the west have not made Africa any better in their trade ties there with their conditions ...

They don't believe in fighting useless wars over feeble reasons and wasting money $$$ and have steadfastly refused to get drawn to middle eastern conflicts that are costly and not effective

They believe in the Scandinavian methods of engaging the communities and protecting the environment and already there are a few experiments in Qingdao...I am waiting to see the fruits of that in 2017

The CCP have made great strides and made some errors along the way ...they have not repeated them while the west keeps berating them for past incidents as some posters here like to do like a broken record

The CCP will not develop China at a pace dictated by the west or reform at a pace dictated by the west.

They are their own governance and if they fail well isn't that what the west would say it's time for a reform and change

For that to happen they need to fail first and they don't intend to do that.

Unlike some who are just keyboard haters here , I'm Chinese and proudly want China to succeed at the world stage and make a better living for the people there ...it won't be fair for all and won't be a win for all ..such a reality is not possible and anyone who thinks that must have read Marxist too much and China have developed a more reasonable and sub stainable model of communism or does te world really want another Putin and prefer him ?

it won't happen overnight and anyone that think a President can make a difference in 4 years while fighting bi partisan politics is also as disillusioned as past track records have supported nothing

Lawrence I am interested in your views on China's claim to the South China Sea and in particular a number of islands including the area which the Philippines is also claiming.

China has just this week firmly rejected any suggestion of international arbitration, although it did say it could be willing to enter talks with countries like the Philippines and Vietnam directly but it is totally against the idea of " internationalising " the negotiations.

No doubt you are aware of the huge artificial island that is being constructed by China and aerial views now clearly reveal there will be a massive runway. It's clear China means business regarding this issue.

I have read several articles which claim that this will all end in China and USA (on behalf of the Philippines) going to war over this matter. Do you concur?

Lol, unlike Lawrence who has passion for his preferred cultural, you are a s@@@ stirrer with nothing intelligent to contribute.