Non O Retirement visa questions

[jjJJ1133]

Would appreciate any advice/comments on this.

So here's my plan:

Visiting Thailand on a 60 day tourist visa and subsequently converting this to a Non O retirement visa once in Thailand.

I'm U.S. citizen, meet monthly pension amount of 65k baht, over 50 years old. I plan on getting a 60 day tourist visa at the Thai embassy in Washington, D.C.

Once in Thailand it's my understanding I will need following to apply for the Non O visa:

1. I would have to apply for a 60 day extension of the original 60 day tourist visa since I would have to be in Thailand at least 60 day before I can apply for the Non O retirement visa.

2. Income affidavit (notarized) from U.S. embassy in Bangkok to show proof of monthly pension amount of 65K baht monthly

3. Proof of address in Thailand (utility bills, etc)

4. Original and copies of U.S. passport

5. 3 copies of TM.7 form (extension of stay application form)

6. Medical exam completed by doctor

7. Of course all fees required

Questions:

Would I need a Thai bank account even though I have the income affidavit?

Appreciate any response and/or comments.

John

[Jingthing]

Where will your residence be in Thailand?

Bangkok?

You've got some big things REALLY wrong.

There is no such thing as a 60 day residency time requirement to apply for the CONVERSION of your tourist visa to 90 day O visa. That's the first step (can do at Bangkok if your local office doesn't do as not all local offices do) and the second step is the annual extension based on retirement.

So, you do NOT need to extend your original tourist visa ... you can begin the process with your original one tourist visa.

You DO NOT need a medical form! Period. You only need that for an O-A visa (often called a retirement visa) done from your home country.

Again for your retirement goals:

Step 1 - CONVERSION of your tourist visa to O visa (this is NOT a retirement visa)

Step 2 - Application for annual extension based on retirement (this also is NOT a retirement visa)

Bank account if using pure income method?

You probably don't need that to show immigration but I would strongly suggest opening a Thai bank account anyway as soon as you arrive if you can. If you can't with the tourist visa, you probably can with the first step O visa (90 day stay).

[jjJJ1133]

Thanks Jingthing for the info.

Really appreciate it - I knew I had probably had some things wrong.

Thanks again

Best, John

[wayned]

You don't need any proof to get the income affidavit from the Embassy it's a sworn notarized statement. But you might have to show proof to immigration when you do the conversion and extension. You will most likely need two letters from the Embassy, one for the conversion and one for the extension, they keep the original both times so that's $50 x2 = $100. You need to make an appointment to get the letters: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html

When you enter on your tourist visa you will get 60 days permission to stay. You can do the conversion during the last 30 days of that permission. You don;t need to extend it for 3- days, it's a waste of 1900 baht. The conversion has to be done in either Bangkok, Hat Yai or Chiang Mai. You will need proof of where you are living for both the conversion and extension. The cost is 2000 baht. You will get a Non-O with 90 days permission to stay.

During the last 30 days (45 at some locations) you apply for a 1 year extension for retirement using the second income affidavit. The extension needs to be done at the office responsible for the area where you live. The cost of the extension is1900 baht.

You should open a bank account as early as possible when you get here. I would recommend Bangkok Bank as they have a Branch in NYC and transfers are easy and inexpensive.

[jjJJ1133]

Wayned: Great info - Thanks so much.

[Diplomatico]

Why not just get the O-A visa in the USA before coming here? Not too difficult and has some distinct advantages, IMO (it's multiple entry, you can time things to make it last for two years).

[Suradit69]

You don't need any proof to get the income affidavit from the Embassy it's a sworn notarized statement. But you might have to show proof to immigration when you do the conversion and extension. You will most likely need two letters from the Embassy, one for the conversion and one for the extension, they keep the original both times so that's $50 x2 = $100. You need to make an appointment to get the letters: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html

When you enter on your tourist visa you will get 60 days permission to stay. You can do the conversion during the last 30 days of that permission. You don;t need to extend it for 3- days, it's a waste of 1900 baht. The conversion has to be done in either Bangkok, Hat Yai or Chiang Mai. You will need proof of where you are living for both the conversion and extension. The cost is 2000 baht. You will get a Non-O with 90 days permission to stay.

During the last 30 days (45 at some locations) you apply for a 1 year extension for retirement using the second income affidavit. The extension needs to be done at the office responsible for the area where you live. The cost of the extension is1900 baht.

You should open a bank account as early as possible when you get here. I would recommend Bangkok Bank as they have a Branch in NYC and transfers are easy and inexpensive.

"You will most likely need two letters from the Embassy, one for the conversion and one for the extension, they keep the original both times so that's $50 x2 = $100. "

You're correct, but there have been some cases reported of immigrations accepting a photocopy of the affidavit for the conversion and then, of course, the original is definitely required for the extension of stay.

[OMGImInPattaya]

You don't need any proof to get the income affidavit from the Embassy it's a sworn notarized statement. But you might have to show proof to immigration when you do the conversion and extension. You will most likely need two letters from the Embassy, one for the conversion and one for the extension, they keep the original both times so that's $50 x2 = $100. You need to make an appointment to get the letters: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html

When you enter on your tourist visa you will get 60 days permission to stay. You can do the conversion during the last 30 days of that permission. You don;t need to extend it for 3- days, it's a waste of 1900 baht. The conversion has to be done in either Bangkok, Hat Yai or Chiang Mai. You will need proof of where you are living for both the conversion and extension. The cost is 2000 baht. You will get a Non-O with 90 days permission to stay.

During the last 30 days (45 at some locations) you apply for a 1 year extension for retirement using the second income affidavit. The extension needs to be done at the office responsible for the area where you live. The cost of the extension is1900 baht.

You should open a bank account as early as possible when you get here. I would recommend Bangkok Bank as they have a Branch in NYC and transfers are easy and inexpensive.

Based on my 15 years of experience with Thai banking, with all four of the major private banks, I can definitely say that Bangkok Bank is the worst of the lot! If you fancy a bank where their ATMs are often offline or where their staff are not only a surly lot but more clueless than your already clueless frontline Thai banking staff then by all means, go with BB. If you want a robust ATM network and friendly, if not always knowledgable staff I would recommend in no particular order: Kasikorn Bank, Bank of Ayudha, or Siam Commercial Bank.

[Jingthing]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

This is true but I've heard there are plenty of fees involved in this, as well as it being slow, and bad rates being given. I have never done such a transfer personally so have no personal knowledge but that's what I have read.

SWIFT transfers to any of the major Thai banks work fine and the transfer fee is de minimus (just be sure to transfer in your home currency so the currency exchange is done in Bangkok).

[mojaco]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

This is true but I've heard there are plenty of fees involved in this, as well as it being slow, and bad rates being given. I have never done such a transfer personally so have no personal knowledge but that's what I have read.

SWIFT transfers to any of the major Thai banks work fine and the transfer fee is de minimus (just be sure to transfer in your home currency so the currency exchange is done in Bangkok).

I have been using ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank for years. The fees are $10 to the bank making the ACH transfer (there may be US Banks cheaper than this) and a Bangkok Bank fee of 0.25% (multiply by 0.0025) of the Baht transfered (but a maximum fee of 500 Baht.) The transfer takes 3 business days for the USA bank and about two days for the Bangkok Bank, or about 5 business days in all. The exchange rate used is the TT rate which is the absolutely best exchange rate available in Thailand, better than exchanging $100 USA bills at a local Bangkok Bank.

The SWIFT wires cost about $35 at the bank I use, and the exchange rate is poor.

I have always been politely serviced at Bangkok Banks.

[Jingthing]

If nothing else having a Bangkok Bank account (for ACH transfers) is an excellent idea as a BACKUP PLAN in case there is a problem with SWIFT. U.S. bank policies change and often banks go out of business entirely. I also recommend having multiple U.S. bank accounts set up before leaving the U.S. for this reason.

[Diplomatico]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

This is true but I've heard there are plenty of fees involved in this, as well as it being slow, and bad rates being given. I have never done such a transfer personally so have no personal knowledge but that's what I have read.

OP should ignore this nonsense as it's typical internet blathering by someone with no experience on the topic (and admits it). The Bangkok Bank ACH is one of the fastest, cheapest ways to transfer money from the U.S. to Thailand.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

This is true but I've heard there are plenty of fees involved in this, as well as it being slow, and bad rates being given. I have never done such a transfer personally so have no personal knowledge but that's what I have read.

SWIFT transfers to any of the major Thai banks work fine and the transfer fee is de minimus (just be sure to transfer in your home currency so the currency exchange is done in Bangkok).

I have been using ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank for years. The fees are $10 to the bank making the ACH transfer (there may be US Banks cheaper than this) and a Bangkok Bank fee of 0.25% (multiply by 0.0025) of the Baht transfered (but a maximum fee of 500 Baht.) The transfer takes 3 business days for the USA bank and about two days for the Bangkok Bank, or about 5 business days in all. The exchange rate used is the TT rate which is the absolutely best exchange rate available in Thailand, better than exchanging $100 USA bills at a local Bangkok Bank.

The SWIFT wires cost about $35 at the bank I use, and the exchange rate is poor.

I have always been politely serviced at Bangkok Banks.

My bank, Citi, charges $25 regardless of the amount transferred. Therefore, the transfer rate is less the more one transfers at a time.

My last SWIFT transfer took 12 hours. I put in my online request at around 22:00 Thai time and received an SMS from my Thai bank that the funds were available around 11:00 the next day. I wouldn't want to wait 5 days (or more as you're likely to hit a weekend with these lead times) for my money.

As for comments about problems with SWIFT or banks closing, in 15 years of maybe 200 transfers I've never had a problem. Banks do sometimes fail but more often they are merged into other healthier institutions. However, if one is expatriating for good, one should select one of the larger banks to ease any such concerns.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that Americans can do ACH domestic transfers to Thailand. Personally I have accounts in multiple Thai banks, but I think most Americans with U.S. accounts as well should consider a Bangkok Bank account.

This is true but I've heard there are plenty of fees involved in this, as well as it being slow, and bad rates being given. I have never done such a transfer personally so have no personal knowledge but that's what I have read.

OP should ignore this nonsense as it's typical internet blathering by someone with no experience on the topic (and admits it). The Bangkok Bank ACH is one of the fastest, cheapest ways to transfer money from the U.S. to Thailand.

55555...ACH...5 days...fastest! Compared to what, the Pony Express? Do you bank with Wells Fargo & Company?

The op can run the numbers using whatever bank he chooses. For many, finding the cheapest price for everything in life is not the primary goal. Other things like quality are also considered. My transfer rate comes out to be .0025% or $25, which is the SAME price as calculated using the example provided in a previous post in ACH charges...and I got my money in less than a day!

So who's the uninformed blatherer now?

[Diplomatico]

OP should ignore this nonsense as it's typical internet blathering by someone with no experience on the topic (and admits it). The Bangkok Bank ACH is one of the fastest, cheapest ways to transfer money from the U.S. to Thailand.

55555...ACH...5 days...fastest! Compared to what, the Pony Express? Do you bank with Wells Fargo & Company?

The op can run the numbers using whatever bank he chooses. For many, finding the cheapest price for everything in life is not the primary goal. Other things like quality are also considered. My transfer rate comes out to be .0025% which is pretty cheap in any case.

Takes my transfers between 48-72 hours, sometimes less. Never had five days.

Nice try, though.

[ubonjoe]

I have my SS payments direct deposited to my Bangkok Bank account by ACH that costs me $5 for New York and 200 baht here. The longest has been about 24 hours but most are less than 12 hours until I get a cha ching SMS saying that it is in.

[Jingthing]

...

As for comments about problems with SWIFT or banks closing, in 15 years of maybe 200 transfers I've never had a problem. Banks do sometimes fail but more often they are merged into other healthier institutions. However, if one is expatriating for good, one should select one of the larger banks to ease any such concerns.

When banks merge, their SWIFT policies become the SWIFT policies of the new bank. This happened to me with two banks. The previous SWIFT arrangements I had set up were finished. You can put on a show that these problems don't happen. I call BS. I KNOW they do.

Regardless of your weird anti Bangkok Bank agenda. the fact that it is the only Thai bank offering the domestic ACH transfer option is a REALLY BIG DEAL. Americans are very wise have this ready as an option.

[OMGImInPattaya]

...

As for comments about problems with SWIFT or banks closing, in 15 years of maybe 200 transfers I've never had a problem. Banks do sometimes fail but more often they are merged into other healthier institutions. However, if one is expatriating for good, one should select one of the larger banks to ease any such concerns.

When banks merge, their SWIFT policies become the SWIFT policies of the new bank. This happened to me with two banks. The previous SWIFT arrangements I had set up were finished. You can put on a show that these problems don't happen. I call BS. I KNOW they do.

Regardless of your weird anti Bangkok Bank agenda. the fact that it is the only Thai bank offering the domestic ACH transfer option is a REALLY BIG DEAL. Americans are very wise have this ready as an option.

That's why I suggested banking with one of the large ("money-center") banks as they tend to be the predators and not the prey when it comes to bank mergers and rescues. However, even in the scenario you report, as your account was undoubtedly transferred to the successor bank, they needed a newly executed standing order for your SWIFT transfer as the prior one with the failed or merged bank was no longer valid. I assume it was not a major problem and you were able to fax or express mail the new document to your bank in short order. This is nothing to do with a problem using SWIFT to transfer funds but related to some bank reorganization transaction. The way you wrote about SWIFT made it seem like, at least to me, that the ACH system was somehow preferable to the SWIFT system, which is definitely not the case.

My only problem with Bangkok Bank is that I have had lots of problems getting simple things done with their front-line staff and their ATMs are often offline. I have had problems with other banks too but not anywhere near to the extent as with BB. Therefore, if asked for an opinion I recommend any of the other major Thai banks. I don't think ACH is any big deal. As my example shows, SWIFT is just as cheap, if not cheaper if transferring large amounts of money, and also appears to be faster.

[Jingthing]

Dude --- egads, this is getting tedious -- has it occurred to you that many U.S. banks require you to initiate SWIFT agreements IN PERSON?

If your bank changes and the new bank requires that you are starting again with their policies. Travel from Thailand to the U.S. just to visit a bank. Not my idea of a good time. Yes this happened to me twice with LARGE banks, so don't accuse me of making up unlikely scenarios.

Also keep in mind (this it to U.S. expats in general) that once you move from the U.S. it is going to become MUCH HARDER to open up any new U.S. accounts ever again if you never move back. This fits into my suggestion of having backup U.S. accounts.

Anyway, for sensible people without an agenda, BANGKOK BANK is at the very least a great backup from SWIFT dependent U.S. expats.

[ubonjoe]

I think it is time to stop the off topic bickering.

[JimGant]

As my example shows, SWIFT is just as cheap, if not cheaper if transferring large amounts of money, and also appears to be faster.

Some brokerage centers, if you maintain a large account, do provide cheap SWIFT transfer options. But you'll never find a bank, at least in the US, that would charge less for a SWIFT transfer than for an ACH transfer. And, even when that ACH transfer hooks to Bangkok Bank NY, charging $5 for a $2000 transfer, or $10 for a larger transfer, the cost to send the money across the pond is still cheaper than for a SWIFT transfer. And, once arriving in Thailand, the backend costs are the same for both ACH and SWIFT, namely .25%, or min 200 bt, max 500 bt.

But, yeah, if time is money, the SWIFT transfer is advertised at one business day. ACH transfer time, on the other hand, is all over the map, depending on the financial institution. But many, like USAA, are reasonable, charging nothing for their ACH transfer, and taking, on average, 32 hours -- or a little over one business day. Anyone getting a 5 day ACH to Thailand needs to find a new bank.

And once you get that new bank, if you can't live with a 32 hour lag on getting your funding, your problems transcend deciding between ACH and SWIFT.