Sydney siege: Gunman takes hostages in Lindt cafe

[Scott]

From what has been said, he was from Iran and a refugee. Did he have citizenship? Did he arrive in Australia on his own, or was he given temporary asylum in another country first?

Usually people with mental conditions need to be in remission for a year before being resettled. It seems there was a breakdown in allowing this guy to run free without being on medication at a minimum.

[JockPieandBeans]

The NSW police commissioner called him "unstable"

His lawyer called him "damaged goods"

His solicitor said he was "mad as a cut snake."

But none of them had the swingers to call him a radicalized nutjob.

PC bullsh!t at its best.

The killer was known to Federal & State police. Its an unfolding story and as more detail becomes available the message on the offenders background is becoming clearer and starting to focus on his support for Islamic extremism, outside of his previous 'common' criminality.

The hostage taker had a criminal record in Australia & Iran and had a website that was sympathetic to Islamic extremism.

The Australian government granted him asylum, Iran's Fars News said, despite Iranian police pursuing his return to Tehran through Interpol. I assume he was not returned to Iran as he faced the death penalty.

It's good to see a number of Muslim organisations have quickly issued condemnation of this man's actions.

Known ? It is reported that he was on bail for something like 47 sexual offences ?

Known to have Islamic extremist websites ?

Wanted in Iran through Interpol ?

And he was still able to carry this out. Kind of says it all for me.

Muslim organisations can wring their hands and wail their condemnation all they like. Words mean nothing. Why do they not take one of these radicalized Muslims and stone him to death as a warning to others ? Or do they just save that for special people ?

The hostage taker ? Why not call him the radicalized nutjob that he was ? ( Highlighted on purpose )

Your above statement makes the Australian Authorities negligent in the extreme. Now where have we heard that before ? Yes, the same accusation can be leveled at the UK Authorities after various atrocities there.

Are the Aus and UK Authorities really so incompetent ? Or is it a concentrated effort to enforce multiculturalism by suppressing acts and deeds that are committed by certain elements of a certain Culture ?

If I was a betting man, I know where I would plant my money.

[Ulysses G.]

As convenient as it is to point the finger at Islam, this was a person with mental health issues.

I would argue that most Islamic terrorists that attack innocent civilians have mental health issues, including the leaders. They court people with mental issues to become suicide bombers and to carry out lone wolf attacks. I see no reason that radical Islam should be let off the hook in any regard.

[canman]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.

Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.

My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.

My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.

My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.

My fourth wife is Chinese.

My mother and father were English.

My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.

Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.

I would like you to consider what was taught to me.

Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.

Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.

Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.

I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

[OZEMADE]

These people lost their lives today because of the Political Correctness and all the Do Gooders.

[Old Croc]

Life in Iran

From Wikipedia:

Haron was born in Iran. He had sought political asylum in Australia in 1996, claiming that he was involved with the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, and that his criticism of the regime and the secret information he possessed had lead to his persecution as well as the detention of his wife and children.[10]

Yet, other news sources have reported that he had been working as the managing director of a tourism agency in Iran, and had fled Iran after a US$200,000 fraud case. The same source reports that he was protected from extradition by his refugee status.[11]

[transam]

if they have released the name you can bet they know with 99% certainity. He is a scum bag Irian clerik granted assylum in Aus, on parole for muder of his wife, stabbed her and set her alight. many other sexual violence charges. It is reported he has a sword. They are releasing tis info because they are ready to take him down

Name was just released, i was talking about previous headlines.

He is out on bail, so this act may be his way to "go out" but i am puzzled by the ISIS claims, he is Iranian.

Precisely..you have all jumped the gun on your Muslim bashing.

He was a nut job with a personal axe to grind ... just as I said.

I would suggest that anyone with one of those black flags, which he had, is a nut job and is very much Muslim related...

[Will27]

People pointing fingers at how perps were being tortured by the CIA. It's funny, I don't see the same fluffers on the street demonstrating against the killing of "innocent" people by these same perps.

And, where's the Muslim community in all these incidents? Why are they not looking at their own community to weed these nutters out. THEY LOSE TOO.

I have no problem with immigrants trying to start a new life in the lucky country.

I have big issues with bludgers milking the system and trying to introduce their own crazy religions.

You know of course that immigrants are not allowed to partake of social security in any form in Australia for at least 2 years from their arrival.

You know of course, that the 2 year qualifying period doesn't apply to refugee's

[Tywais]

For those who question as to why the snipers did not take him out. Fine if it is an open, unobstructed shot but shooting through a thick plate glass brings a lot of issues with it. Bullet deflection, bullet fragmentation, loss of energy, etc. Any one of these could have caused a miss of the target or hitting a hostage from fragments or deflection and very well could have set the person off on a shooting rampage. You've read how agitated he got when he realized some had escaped, imagine his attitude when he sees they just tried to kill him.

I'm pretty sure the sniper team and team leader were aware of these issues and considered it too much of a chance to take without a clean, unobstructed shot.

[canman]

if they have released the name you can bet they know with 99% certainity. He is a scum bag Irian clerik granted assylum in Aus, on parole for muder of his wife, stabbed her and set her alight. many other sexual violence charges. It is reported he has a sword. They are releasing tis info because they are ready to take him down

Name was just released, i was talking about previous headlines.

He is out on bail, so this act may be his way to "go out" but i am puzzled by the ISIS claims, he is Iranian.

Precisely..you have all jumped the gun on your Muslim bashing.

He was a nut job with a personal axe to grind ... just as I said.

I would suggest that anyone with one of those black flags, which he had, is a nut job and is very much Muslim related...

Exactly. Once you raise the black flag all bets are off and it must be shoot to kill.

[Ulysses G.]

if they have released the name you can bet they know with 99% certainity. He is a scum bag Irian clerik granted assylum in Aus, on parole for muder of his wife, stabbed her and set her alight. many other sexual violence charges. It is reported he has a sword. They are releasing tis info because they are ready to take him down

Name was just released, i was talking about previous headlines.

He is out on bail, so this act may be his way to "go out" but i am puzzled by the ISIS claims, he is Iranian.

Precisely..you have all jumped the gun on your Muslim bashing.

He was a nut job with a personal axe to grind ... just as I said.

I would suggest that anyone with one of those black flags, which he had, is a nut job and is very much Muslim related...

Not to mention all the supportive messages for ISIS and radical Islam on his Facebook page.

[Credo]

As convenient as it is to point the finger at Islam, this was a person with mental health issues.

I would argue that most Islamic terrorists that attack innocent civilians have mental health issues, including the leaders. They court people with mental issues to become suicide bombers and to carry out lone wolf attacks. I see no reason that radical Islam should be let off the hook in any regard.

If that were the criteria, then many, many, many of the people involved in the military of many countries also have mental health issues. But it isn't. This guy had mental health issues that are probably not related to his religion and he should have been in treatment or on medication for those problems. They were exacerbated and manifested themselves in the name of religion.

Even if he wasn't a Muslim, he would likely have run into serious problems.

The big question in this matter is, was he treated differently for the legal and mental health issues because he was Muslim, or would a Christian, Atheist, Jew have been treated the same?

[Credo]

Islam is a rather restrictive religion and that makes integration into western culture a harder.

[transam]

Islam is a rather restrictive religion and that makes integration into western culture a harder.

Then they should stay in a country where they can all be miserable together..........

[bendejo]

A cafe/sweetie shop is one thing, but I'd like to see one of these bozos try a stunt like that in a pub.

[mihalis]

Immigration laws suck in OZ, allowing these pathetic people to come, while, making hard for people to bring wives from Thailand, because they are high risk being thai !!

[harrry]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.

Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.

My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.

My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.

My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.

My fourth wife is Chinese.

My mother and father were English.

My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.

Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.

I would like you to consider what was taught to me.

Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.

Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.

Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.

I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

But they did change Australian Culture. Souvlaki, Pasta, Roast Duck, Pho.

[Docno]

BBC news is reporting that the gunman was out on bail for his alleged role in the murder of his wife. So I guess it's not only Thailand that let's murder suspects out on bail. Clearly this practice needs to be reconsidered, especially as in this case, the gunman was known to be mentally unstable.

RIP to the 2 innocent victims.

[Steely Dan]

Precisely..you have all jumped the gun on your Muslim bashing.

He was a nut job with a personal axe to grind ... just as I said.

BS!
Give it a rest with your apologist guesswork.
It's obvious he was a pro-ISIS muslim terrorist. His nationality is irrelevant.

The NSW police commissioner called him "unstable"
His lawyer called him "damaged goods"
His solicitor said he was "mad as a cut snake."

But none of them had the swingers to call him a radicalized nutjob.

PC bullsh!t at its best.

The killer was known to Federal & State police. Its an unfolding story and as more detail becomes available the message on the offenders background is becoming clearer and starting to focus on his support for Islamic extremism, outside of his previous 'common' criminality.

The hostage taker had a criminal record in Australia & Iran and had a website that was sympathetic to Islamic extremism.

The Australian government granted him asylum, Iran's Fars News said, despite Iranian police pursuing his return to Tehran through Interpol. I assume he was not returned to Iran as he faced the death penalty.

It's good to see a number of Muslim organisations have quickly issued condemnation of this man's actions.

Condemnation may take the heat off the Muslim community, but I doubt it will make one iota of difference to any radical or indeed people yet to be radicalized. To do any good whatsoever Islam needs to tackle head on ALL the elements of its scripture which are misinterpreted (sic) as a call to violence and supremacism. The Russians are a way ahead of most on that score having just banned Islam's second most holy (sic) book on account of its explicit calls to violence against infidels. It is high time other Western Countries looked at Islamic scripture in the same way instead of giving it undeserved protection from scrutiny on the grounds of religious tolerance.

[Ulysses G.]

Even if he wasn't a Muslim, he would likely have run into serious problems.

I'm pretty sure that he would not have barricaded himself in a shop with a bunch of hostages and put a radical Islamic flag in the window.

Sorry, but I don't buy your theory that this is somehow societies' fault - that it discriminated against him because he was a Muslim.

[MrWorldwide]

Australia's mental health system has been broken for years - the institutions claim they dont have the funding to properly house and treat patients and many end up on the streets. The story below has no direct relationship to the siege, but two innocent people were brutally murdered just months ago when they tried to help an individual who clearly needed to be institutionalised. None of this absolves the Martin Place gunman of his premeditated actions - it simply illustrates the danger that the seriously ill pose to the community. Blaming it on the Police is short-sighted, IMO - they're often the people forced to intervene when someone hasnt taken their medication, an horrific scenario when we consider what a paranoid schizophrenic is capable of.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24247157/parents-killed-with-tools-court-told/

Ms Weston said Mr Soares had been admitted as an involuntary patient at the Alma Street clinic in Fremantle several times, but her mother felt frustrated and helpless that she could only get assistance when the situation with her son reached an acute crisis.

[F430murci]

Even if he wasn't a Muslim, he would likely have run into serious problems.

I'm pretty sure that he would not have barricaded himself in a shop with a bunch of hostages and put a radical Islamic flag in the window.

Sorry, but I don't buy your theory that this is somehow societies' fault - that it discriminated against him because he was a Muslim.

Yeah, 39 hostages. They should have just the shyyttee out of him. So what happened here. Just got off work and trying to catch up.

[chooka]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

It's all happening now!

Flashbangs, shots, medics going in, more shots, hostages carried out.

I think the nut has met Allah

Stretchers going in, hope the innocent have survived!

Not police.......that was SAS shock bangs.. SAS dressed in police uniform..............

he's dead! he has been taken out..... they knew via night-vision exactly where he was..........

No, they were Police in Police uniforms.

Yes definately police and one has been shot in the face as confirmed by the chief commissioner

Quote from Beeb , who knows how accurate it is

"Local media reports suggest the commandos from the Royal Australian Regiment entered the building after the gunman started firing shots."

It was police, the RAR, Commandos and SAS were no involved. Special operations police in Australia are extremely highly trained. Some in various police forces around Australia have come from the SAS after discharge from the Army but they are a minority

[chuckd]

A cafe/sweetie shop is one thing, but I'd like to see one of these bozos try a stunt like that in a pub.

...in Texas.

[Kooweerup]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.

Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.

My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.

My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.

My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.

My fourth wife is Chinese.

My mother and father were English.

My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.

Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.

I would like you to consider what was taught to me.

Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.

Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.

Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.

I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

But they did change Australian Culture. Souvlaki, Pasta, Roast Duck, Pho.

but now we can no longer celebrate xmas in schools, yes we can eat souvaki but it must be halah. Australia has changed and the traditions which most grew up with have been banned to suit a certain religious group coming to Australia to embrace the culture that has now been banned to suit them. I hate having to say happy holidays out of fear if I said merry xmas it may offend a new arrival.

[canman]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.

Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.

My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.

My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.

My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.

My fourth wife is Chinese.

My mother and father were English.

My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.

Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.

I would like you to consider what was taught to me.

Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.

Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.

Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.

I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

But they did change Australian Culture. Souvlaki, Pasta, Roast Duck, Pho.

Food is not culture, it is an aspect of culture and regardless they didn't arrive in Aus and demand everyone give up their vegemite and eat only Souvlaki or Pho

[wirat69]

Time for Oz to lock their borders and check out then throw out these nasty parasites.

The UK needs to do the same.

Would you want to live with a crocodile?

Thought that was how they got to Oz in the first place!!

[canman]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.

Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.

My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.

My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.

My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.

My fourth wife is Chinese.

My mother and father were English.

My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.

Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.

I would like you to consider what was taught to me.

Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.

Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.

Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.

I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

But they did change Australian Culture. Souvlaki, Pasta, Roast Duck, Pho.

And Islam has you paying a Halal tax on most food you buy and 70% of Australians wouldnt even realise it.

Support Dick Smith, Lyndt and the few other Australian companys who refuse to pay the halal certification tax.

Try to find baby food anywhere in Australia without a Halal complience seal.

Have a look here:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/573623/20141122/boycott-halal-australia-mp-george-christensen-certification.htm

[Friendly Stranger]

2 people are dead because Australia put his human rights ahead of law abiding citizens. Some countries need to wake up.

Beware the kettle calling the pot black.
Australia is a multicultural country and all the better for it.
My first wife was Italian/Australian and her family all worked very hard for Australia.
My second wife and mother of my children was from Fiji and my children are little chocolate drop Australians. Born and bred.
My third wife was Thai and like most Thais who live in Australia she runs a Thai restaurant and loves Australia.
My fourth wife is Chinese.
My mother and father were English.
My mothers 2nd husband was from Latvia his son is Australian.
Her 3rd husband was from Lebanon. A Christian and a librarian in Sydney.
I would like you to consider what was taught to me.
Never believe anything you hear (including the written word) and only half of what you see.
Never underestimate who the "mates" of Australia really are.
Try and see the movie "They're a weird mob" written by Nino Culata.

Yes Aus has a rich history of multiculturalism. The Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc. etc.
I don't recall any of these immigrant waves demanding Australia change it's culture to suit them do you.

But they did change Australian Culture. Souvlaki, Pasta, Roast Duck, Pho.

but now we can no longer celebrate xmas in schools, yes we can eat souvaki but it must be halah. Australia has changed and the traditions which most grew up with have been banned to suit a certain religious group coming to Australia to embrace the culture that has now been banned to suit them. I hate having to say happy holidays out of fear if I said merry xmas it may offend a new arrival.

This is why I resort to saying merry CHRIST mas. Yes, a little childish but it's to make a point. I had jewish friends growing up and they never said a word but g-d forbid I'm in the presence of the higher than mighty recent comers.

It's too bad as I like a lot of the traditions and customs I'm introduced to but it's a 2 way street.

[Tep]

As expected, as time moves on, more information and maybe clarity emerges. From http://www.news.com.au/national/martin-place-cafe-siege-man-haron-monis-named-as-gunman/story-fncynjr2-1227157492618

"It's believed Monis lost a High Court appeal against his conviction for sending the offensive letters last Friday. There is speculation that that may have lead to his actions yesterday"

Experts who work with or understand these situations are starting to say that there are 'triggers' to such behaviours by people with mental health issues and it seems some are looking at the Friday court loss.

For me, lessons from the Sydney hostage event come down to 2 things; causes and consequences. The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism. These people have nothing to offer us. They have nothing to offer those who live in societies that are historically based on immigration and are culturally diverse. Some of them have admitted having no experience of Australian society, have never been to Australia and know nothing of our culture and society. Yet they presume to lecture us based on their petty cultural biases, fears and concerns.

For cause, I don't know if anyone has an answer yet. Much of what I read and hear talks about the impossibility of stopping the 'lone wolf' attack. Is this then the price that open and free societies pay and we just have to trust our luck that we don't choose the wrong coffee shop to visit? Clearly gun control is not effective in its current form. Is that the answer? Should laws be changed, individual freedoms and rights curtailed? I think there will be many arguments on the issue of cause. Some rage about letting these 'people' into the country in the first place. I assume by 'these people' you mean people with mental health issue who pose a threat to the safety of others? Perhaps those who advocate this can tell us how exactly to do this (apart from using skin colour as a test). One of my family works with Immigration and she interviews people in Darwin right off the boat so to speak and has to make recommendations about their claim to come to Australia by this means. I am serious. What questions does she ask to establish whether a person is going to be a danger to others. She has no advanced mental ability to see into a person's mind or know a persons future as far as I know. We can only establish systems and procedures and apply them equitably to all-comers and know that such systems and procedures cannot be perfect.

For consequence, I do not think that any reasonable Australian will advocate a return to the White Australia policy and the shame of our past. What the angry old white bigots don't realise is the amount of work that we Australians have put into multiculturalism since the 80's. Anyone who has worked in government or with community organisations will know what I am talking about. We have had the debates. We have experimented with programs. We have implemented laws and regulations. Those who have not lived through it or are not living through it because it is an ongoing experience have no idea of what multiculturalism in Australia means. They are just reactionary scared old men angry at other people for having better lives than they did. I worry that these types of people and there are plenty in Australia, will drive knee-jerk reactions that will see more bigotry and discrimination, not less.

Religious councils were quick to condemn this criminal action even though it seems the relationship of religion and causation are more and more tenuous. Australian citizens choose unity over discrimination through #irideiwithyou. Police and politicians were muted about the 'islamic terrorism' hysteria because they knew this individual and what seems to be a substantive part of the reason for his action being mental health and personal issues. I am hopeful that these things signal a move to enhance multiculturalism and respect for diversity in a united, vibrant and dynamic Australia.

Unity in Australia does not mean whites only any more. Plenty of humble pie to be eaten by the bigots who are increasingly being rejected by forward thinking Australians.