Farang Prince Dies In Thai Jail

[digitele]

Good bye.

Promise?

You should be seeking intensive treatment.

A combination of drugs and therapy in a 24/7 lockdown institution.

Like somebody else said in here....Get lost!

[chuchok]

How would you know this? Were you there?

Yes.

And that's about all i will say about this.

You guys have been warned. I should have known that this is useless, like trying to tell a toddler that fire is hot before he has been burned.

Good bye.

Please come back.We really miss you.

[lukamar]

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

[sriracha john]

He knows news before it happens, does he?

[sriracha john]

meanwhile... back here on earth...

where most of us mere mortals have to resort to such mundane sources as reading the newspapers to get their news:

European aristocrat dies while jailed in Thailand

BANGKOK - A European aristocrat has died of diabetes while locked up in a Thai prison cell on charges of falsifying his passport, officials said on Friday.

Prince Christoph von Hohenlohe, 49, the son of Parisian socialite and Liechtenstein Princess Ira de Furstenberg, died in a private hospital in Bangkok early Wednesday from severe diabetes, a prison doctor said.

He did not seem to be aware that he suffered from the disease, the doctor said.

"I was surprised that he was not aware of his diabetes. He was initially sent to the prison hospital, but after a few hours we referred him to Nonthavej hospital because we have no specialists," the doctor said.

It's a shame that they didn't transfer him to like a real hospital with real doctors before he died hours after falling ill. Yeah.. I can see Thailand taking some flak for this death... sounds like there's no shortage of places to start assigning responsibility for the unnecessary imposition of the death penalty. Immigration, police, prison, prison doctors, court, etc. take your pick. Certainly the Prince himself played a role as well.

A diplomat at the Swiss embassy, which is responsible for Liechtenstein's interests in Thailand, said Von Hohenlohe had been arrested in late July on charges of falsifying his passport.

He was being held as he awaited trial, the diplomat said.

- AFP

Edited August 13, 2006 by sriracha john

[camerata]

It is rather astonishing that this thread has been allowed to be continued. Reading through this thread i see many posts breaking lese majeste laws (yes, insulting foreign royal aristocracy here in Thailand can fall under lese majeste...

According to my copy of the Penal Code, section 112 (covering what we call lese majeste) states that "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, the Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent shall be punished..."

Section 133 (Offences against the friendly relations with foreign states) states that "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the Sovereign, his Queen or her Consort, Heir-apparent or Head of a foreign State shall be punished..."

I think we are safe talking about obscure European princes... as I suspect you are well aware.

[Lacoste]

oh ... and note .... the son of the Former Shah ... would not be a Farang

so no "farang prince" I guess

Why?

Do you know the meaning of farang?

Yes.

Do you know that Iranians are generally caucasian.

"Persians" (Iranians) consider themselves to be white folks, not Arabs.

Right, because they originate from the Caucasus region in South Eastern Europe, no doubt making them Caucasian

Correct, they are indeed Farang.

[lukamar]

He knows news before it happens, does he?

If you were referring to my post, I can't tell.

I will say this. My source knows the news before you read it in the paper, hear it on the radio or see it on the wire service. Yes....

[sriracha john]

That's cool, lukamar.

Can he tell me the lottery numbers then, please, for August 16... before they announce them?

Thanks a bunch.

[Lacoste]

That's cool, lukamar.

Can he tell me the lottery numbers then, please, for August 16... before they announce them?

Thanks a bunch.

He did not say he could read the future SJ, he said he is privy to information before it is released to the general public, not before the event happens.

[sriracha john]

That's cool, lukamar.

Can he tell me the lottery numbers then, please, for August 16... before they announce them?

Thanks a bunch.

He did not say he could read the future SJ, he said he is privy to information before it is released to the general public, not before the event happens.

oh ok.. well then, in that case... nevermind.

The paperboy who brings all the papers into our town early in the morning and thus is "privy to information before it's released to the general public," has the same "power."

Next time I see him around I'll just get his mobile number so I can have a "source," too.

Edited August 13, 2006 by sriracha john

[Lacoste]

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

Now upon re-reading this, he did say before the event happens I will take a copy of those numbers also then please.

Sorry SJ

[lukamar]

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

Now upon re-reading this, he did say before the event happens I will take a copy of those numbers also then please.

Sorry SJ

You people are so close minded, you spin every word you don't like. You don't deserve to know what's going on and that's probably why no one in the know is telling you anything you don't want to hear. You constantly guess and speculate and then when someone confirms something you spin it so they look bad because you all have just been blowing smoke for days and know it. Keep making up your own views of the truth because in your own mind I'm sure you truly believe the voices in your head.

[jdinasia]

sorry luk ... someone in canada gave you info we don't have in Thiailand?

Edited August 13, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

sorry luk ... someone in canada gave you info we don't have in Thiailand?

Sorry JD ... A source in Thailand gave me info days ago, some of which has now trickled out in Thailand. I'm sure that you may be let in on the rest as time goes on, and then maybe not.

If you feel left out of the loop, even in Thailand, there probably is a good reason for it.

As a group some of you are hypocrites. Demeaning the government at every chance for stifling the press while at the same time you are doing the same thing here with posters you do not agree with running them off or trying to make them look bad.

Edited August 13, 2006 by lukamar

[seri thai]

Just to summarise the topic here. It seems there are 3 points of discussion.

1, Dont mess with your passport (In any country) even if your blood is blue.

2, Dont insult a man in uniform (in any country-sad, but true) even if your blood is blue.

3,How many people get this sort of treatment-but dont make the papers because their blood is not blue?

Are we back on track now?

[sriracha john]

with apologies, seri thai..

=====================

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

I will say this. My source knows the news before you read it in the paper, hear it on the radio or see it on the wire service. Yes....

You people are so close minded, you spin every word you don't like. You don't deserve to know what's going on and that's probably why no one in the know is telling you anything you don't want to hear. You constantly guess and speculate and then when someone confirms something you spin it so they look bad because you all have just been blowing smoke for days and know it. Keep making up your own views of the truth because in your own mind I'm sure you truly believe the voices in your head.

Sorry JD ... A source in Thailand gave me info days ago, some of which has now trickled out in Thailand. I'm sure that you may be let in on the rest as time goes on, and then maybe not.

If you feel left out of the loop, even in Thailand, there probably is a good reason for it.

As a group some of you are hypocrites. Demeaning the government at every chance for stifling the press while at the same time you are doing the same thing here with posters you do not agree with running them off or trying to make them look bad.

I can only speak for myself in that I didn't intend to demean your original statement too excessively and I apologize if I somehow managed to, but you can't possibly expect to make such a balderdash claim as that and not expect it to be challenged and/or ridiculed.

This is particularly in light of the fact that over the past six months, involving dozens of threads and hundreds of posts... that all evidence runs contrary to your purported declaration.

I believe we would have seen evidence of the accuracy of the sort of information, that this "source" was able to provide you, in your posts and quite frankly, we haven't. Given that, this ostensible assertion of yours is, at a minimum, suspect.

But.... wishing to end on a positive note, however, it IS refreshing and encouraging to learn that The Association of Foreigners in Thailand does actually have some people IN Thailand.

===========================================================

"We apologize for the interuption and now return you to normally scheduled programming"...

[marquess]

with apologies, seri thai..

=====================

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

I will say this. My source knows the news before you read it in the paper, hear it on the radio or see it on the wire service. Yes....

You people are so close minded, you spin every word you don't like. You don't deserve to know what's going on and that's probably why no one in the know is telling you anything you don't want to hear. You constantly guess and speculate and then when someone confirms something you spin it so they look bad because you all have just been blowing smoke for days and know it. Keep making up your own views of the truth because in your own mind I'm sure you truly believe the voices in your head.

Sorry JD ... A source in Thailand gave me info days ago, some of which has now trickled out in Thailand. I'm sure that you may be let in on the rest as time goes on, and then maybe not.

If you feel left out of the loop, even in Thailand, there probably is a good reason for it.

As a group some of you are hypocrites. Demeaning the government at every chance for stifling the press while at the same time you are doing the same thing here with posters you do not agree with running them off or trying to make them look bad.

I can only speak for myself in that I didn't intend to demean your original statement too excessively and I apologize if I somehow managed to, but you can't possibly expect to make such a balderdash claim as that and not expect it to be challenged and/or ridiculed.

This is particularly in light of the fact that over the past six months, involving dozens of threads and hundreds of posts... that all evidence runs contrary to your purported declaration.

I believe we would have seen evidence of the accuracy of the sort of information, that this "source" was able to provide you, in your posts and quite frankly, we haven't. Given that, this ostensible assertion of yours is, at a minimum, suspect.

But.... wishing to end on a positive note, however, it IS refreshing and encouraging to learn that The Association of Foreigners in Thailand does actually have some people IN Thailand.

===========================================================

"We apologize for the interuption and now return you to normally scheduled programming"...

The truth of the matter is that this whole event is an extreme set back for the Thai authorities, who have been attempting to attract "elite" tourists. Yet here we have a member of the elite, rotting in a Thai jail, and subsequently dying. Not a good advert, especially too, when alot of his European relatives where here only month ago. This tragic event will not have gone unoticed by them! I stated before and I state again, we are not being given the full facts here!

[Jai Dee]

To All,

Let's keep the speculation to a minimum and discuss only the known facts please.

It is likely to be a very sensitive issue for the Thai Government.

Thanks for your understanding.

[mouse]

What he did is wrong no matter who he was or where he was. However, there was no reason that he be allowed to die for his minor crimes.

As a fellow Diabetic sufferer I have the following questions?

1.) Did he make the authortities aware of his medical condition when arrested?

2.) Did he have a glucose test kit available when arrested and while in custody?

3.) Did he have medicine in the form of Insulin (with Syringe) for Type i Diabetes or pills for Type II diabetes when arrested?

4.) Was he allowed to maintain the medicines in his posseison? (i.e. syringe etc)

The wrong reponse on any of the above could have meant his quick and yet unexplained death.

My condolensces to his family for their loss.

[jdinasia]

with apologies, seri thai..

=====================

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

That's pretty close to the report I got from my source who tends to have the line on a lot of stuff, often well before it happens.

I will say this. My source knows the news before you read it in the paper, hear it on the radio or see it on the wire service. Yes....

You people are so close minded, you spin every word you don't like. You don't deserve to know what's going on and that's probably why no one in the know is telling you anything you don't want to hear. You constantly guess and speculate and then when someone confirms something you spin it so they look bad because you all have just been blowing smoke for days and know it. Keep making up your own views of the truth because in your own mind I'm sure you truly believe the voices in your head.

Sorry JD ... A source in Thailand gave me info days ago, some of which has now trickled out in Thailand. I'm sure that you may be let in on the rest as time goes on, and then maybe not.

If you feel left out of the loop, even in Thailand, there probably is a good reason for it.

As a group some of you are hypocrites. Demeaning the government at every chance for stifling the press while at the same time you are doing the same thing here with posters you do not agree with running them off or trying to make them look bad.

I can only speak for myself in that I didn't intend to demean your original statement too excessively and I apologize if I somehow managed to, but you can't possibly expect to make such a balderdash claim as that and not expect it to be challenged and/or ridiculed.

This is particularly in light of the fact that over the past six months, involving dozens of threads and hundreds of posts... that all evidence runs contrary to your purported declaration.

I believe we would have seen evidence of the accuracy of the sort of information, that this "source" was able to provide you, in your posts and quite frankly, we haven't. Given that, this ostensible assertion of yours is, at a minimum, suspect.

But.... wishing to end on a positive note, however, it IS refreshing and encouraging to learn that The Association of Foreigners in Thailand does actually have some people IN Thailand.

===========================================================

"We apologize for the interuption and now return you to normally scheduled programming"...

LOL

I guess I should move to Canada so I can find out what is happening here in Thailand!

[olaus]

Information about Christoph von Hohenlohe is hot stuff in Europe now. Mostly in italian and german newspapers.

Ira von Furstenburg, his mother, who married when she was fifteen, and lost another son two years ago, says she believes her son was murdered (www.nachrichten.at).

Two newspapers, Corriere de la Sera and La Stampa, have sent reporters to Bangkok to try to find out what has happened. They both tell about hard words from Christoph. He maybe did not know much of thai mentality. He was arrested after some fighting and brought to Bang Kwang Prison in Nonthaburi.

In prison he collapsed and lay in coma on the floor for four hours. Then he was sent to the Prison Hospital, where they did not have any specialists. The sucker - level was three times higher than normal (www.readers-edition.de).

[Maestro]

There was no dirty play involved in the prison systhem and the hospitals - it simply was a f_uck up by the courts that had unforeseeable tragic consequences.

Some heads may have to roll, i.e. transfers to inactive posts will be made.

It would appear that the government is indeed rather embarrassed about this affair and for this reason keeps it under wraps.

---------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

Two newspapers, Corriere de la Sera and La Stampa, have sent reporters to Bangkok to try to find out what has happened. They both tell about hard words from Christoph. He maybe did not know much of thai mentality. He was arrested after some fighting and brought to Bang Kwang Prison in Nonthaburi.

It is rare not to have a queue of at least a few persons at outbound passport control. Somebody must have been right behind Christoph Hohenlohe and must have witnessed whatever altercation, if any, took place, even if he/she perhaps did not clearly hear the conversation. To find and talk to that person, now this would be a scoop for the Italian, German or Austrian newspapers!

--------------

Maestro

[sriracha john]

Information about Christoph von Hohenlohe is hot stuff in Europe now. Mostly in italian and german newspapers.

In prison he collapsed and lay in coma on the floor for four hours. Then he was sent to the Prison Hospital, where they did not have any specialists.

That shouldn't have mattered that they don't have "specialists" at the prison hospital.

Any qualified and competent general practitioner or general physician can diagnose a diabetic coma and initiate life-saving treatment. Even a good nurse is capable of doing the same.

[Maestro]

Ira von Furstenburg, his mother, who married when she was fifteen, and lost another son two years ago, says she believes her son was murdered (www.nachrichten.at).

Correct link, for those reading German:

http://www.nachrichten.at/nachrichten/467170

This Austrian newspaper article is based on Italian news reports and says:

“My son has been murdered”, claims Ira von Fuerstenberg according to Italian media reports.

This alleged statement comes a day or two after the same Ira von Fuerstenberg was quoted as saying that her son died after being taken ill in prison and that the exact cause of death was not yet known.

--------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

As a fellow Diabetic sufferer I have the following questions?

1.) Did he make the authortities aware of his medical condition when arrested?

2.) Did he have a glucose test kit available when arrested and while in custody?

3.) Did he have medicine in the form of Insulin (with Syringe) for Type i Diabetes or pills for Type II diabetes when arrested?

4.) Was he allowed to maintain the medicines in his posseison? (i.e. syringe etc)

The wrong reponse on any of the above could have meant his quick and yet unexplained death.

There is doubt whether he was diabetic. A “sugar shock” has been mentioned, but nothing has been confirmed.

Translation from an article in La Repubblica (Italian newspaper):

10 August, interview with his mother, talking about her visit to him in prison:

“Did he look ill?”

“No, nothing. He asked that I buy him some Sprite, a sandwich, other drinks. He told me that this place was an inferno due to the cramped conditions and the unbearable heat. He spoke also of the valuable items he consigned to the guards when he entered. In other words, so many details but no request for medicines and even though I saw him distressed, never, not even remotely, would I have imagined this outcome”

”Official sources mentioned cardiac arrest as the general source of death”

“The fact is that we know nothing. The cause of his death is a mystery. We know nothing about the autopsy, nor about his last few hours in the cell. There has also been talk about diabetes but neither I nor any other member of the family ever knew that he was diabetic. The embassy told us that he had asked for medicines for blood pressure when he was in prison. Perhaps he felt weak, with low pressure, perhaps also because of the diet he was following.”

--------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

Trying to reconstruct the chronology based on available news reports in various languages, so far based mostly on interviews with the mother and brother of Christoph Hohenlohe, what do we know?

Text in carets (< >) indicates unknown elements.

– <date, mid July> He arrives at Don Muang Airport from <airport, Honolulu?> on flight <No.>, gets 15-day visa on arrival in his Liechtenstein passport, admitted until <date>

– <day> July: He goes to the seaside in Krabi, staying at <hotel name>

– <day> July: He checks in at the health spa <name> to reduce weight.

– <day> July: He flies to Bangkok and checks in at Peninsula Hotel

– Saturday, 29 July: He checks in at Don Muang airport for <flight No.> to Honolulu

– Saturday, 29 July: He presents his passport at the immigration desk, manually altered “admitted until” date is discovered, he is detained at Immigration Detention Centre.

– Monday, 31 July: He is arraigned in court. Judge confirms arrest, denies bail.

– Tuesday, 1 August: He is transferred to Bang Kwang prison while awaiting sentencing.

– <day> August: A friend of his in Bangkok, <name>, informs his family.

– <day> August: His mother Ira Fuerstenberg arrives in Bangkok.

– Friday, 4 August: His family informs the Italian embassy.

– Friday, 4 August: His mother visits him in prison. He does not complain of ill health, requests no medicines, only Sprite (mixture of water, sugar, artificial flavours and other chemicals), a sandwich and other drinks.

– Saturday, 5 August: He falls ill, is taken to prison hospital.

– Sunday, 6 August: His brother Hubertus von Hohenlohe arrives in Bangkok.

– <day> August: He is transferred to the private clinic <name>.

– Sunday night, 6/7 August: He dies in hospital.

I was wondering what date he changed to what new date in the immigration stamp, and it seems most likely that he changed 28 to 29, which would mean that he arrived on 14 July.

Whether his stay at a health spa was in Krabi, Bangkok or elsewhere is uncertain so far.

--------------

Maestro

[baboon]

But I just cannot figure out why he was sent to Bang Kwang which to the best of my knowledge is a maximum security prison for those with sentences of 30 years or more.Any ideas?

Great post maestro.Living up to your name.

[Maestro]

The article (in German) in Readers Edition – thank you for the link, Olaus – quotes Hubertus von Hohenlohe as saying that his brother stayed at a spa in Krabi; name of the spa not mentioned.

Expanding of what Olaus already translated:

***

According to eye-witnesses, harsh words and a quarrel with Thai immigration officials are said to have led to the arrest of the aristocrat Prince Christoph von Hohenlohe (49) at Bangkok airport...Journalists [of “Corriere della Sera” and “La Stampa”] reported a heated exchange of words with the officials...Visa modified...noticed immediately by officials...Inept behaviour and his ignorance of Thai mentality then probably led to his arrest. Smiling officials in blue uniforms are said to have led him away, wrote Massimo Mumma in “La Stampa”...Apparently, Christoph von Hohenlohe did not know that a modification of a royal Thai official stamp is punishable by up to six years in prison. Tourists in Thailand are, however, made aware of the strict immigration procedures by many sources, also by hotels, airlines and travel agents. It is generally known that Immigration is a powerful authority, to be treated with utmost respect...

Christoph von Hohenlohe probably did not behave correctly after the falsification was discovered. He was arrested and brought to the infamous Bang Kwang prison in Nonthaburi. He was able to alert friends by mobile phone, who then notified his family in Europe...

Doctors allegedly diagnosed a blood sugar level three times the normal level. Because of the previous starvation diet, the arrest might have led to a shock. Then again, there was talk about a rapidly progressing infection.

***

So it seems Italian journalist have finally tracked down some eye-witnesses.

When I was reading about a “blood infection” earlier in the thread I was wondering whether that was brought on by the use of non-sterile needles or other equipment, but let me add quickly that this is idle speculation. It’s just that I have been reading recently about the high number of deaths caused by resistant bacilli in hospitals in Britain, Switzerland, etc.

--------------

Maestro

Edited August 14, 2006 by maestro