Myanmar embassy seeking defence witnesses for Koh Tao accused

[AleG]

Words fail me so just, THANK YOU for being so supportive of these 2 guys and for reporting the day so well.

Awesome.

And they told me I am naive....

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg IMPORTANT REPORT ON CASE COSTS AND UPDATED PRESS COVERAGE

MWRN KOH TAO CASE ACCUSED FAIR TRIAL JUSTICE FUNDRAISER SPENDING/BALANCE SUMMARY REPORT (all costs until Dec 27th 2014)

INCOME - 532, 899 Baht

(1) You-caring online fundraiser 391, 000 (US$1 = 32.92Baht) n.b total donated, not yet deduct website variable service fee (as of 27/12/14)

(2) MWRN Thailand bank donations 115, 969 (as of 27/12/14)

(3) MWRN Myanmar bank donations 25, 920 (as of 28/11/14)

SPENDING - 482, 702 Baht

(1) Samui prison visits to 2 accused including requested food/ accessories deposits, accused personal prison account cash deposits, misc. visit materials - 36, 437 Baht

(2) Pro bono (free of charge professional fee) lawyers case costs (Nakhon Chompuchat, Senior Advisor, LCT + misc. lawyers and legal team translator visits) for travel BKK to Samui/ accommodation/misc. food costs/taxi - 164, 229 Baht

(3) MWRN investigation/ migrant community liaison work Surat Thani Province - 84, 332 Baht

(4) MWRN team Samui based accom/meal support costs - 50, 724 Baht

(5) MWRN team transport Bangkok to Samui - 83, 630 Baht

(6) MWRN team case communication costs - 11, 000 Baht

(7) Samui based petrol costs (rental car) for all activities - 6, 050 Baht

(8) Samui based car rental and taxi for all activities - 46, 300 Baht

BALANCE 50, 187 THB (532, 889 - 482, 702 = 50,187) (n.b. not yet deduct You-Caring website fee)

For more information and updated activities and spending, find the fund donation page with a simple Google search as I am not allowed to post the link here.

Andy reports: Just spoke Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin in court. Both smiled innocently as usual, said 9 months in prison is a very long time for them. But seem strong.

Prosecution witness hearings set as 8th July to 28th August 2015. Defense witness hearings set as 1st September to 25th September 2015.

Our Koh Tao case defense team includes some very talented female lawyers, translators and assistants

Wei Phyo's parents emotionally address media in tears on leaving Koh Samui court after saying goodbye to their son, saluting the King's photo at court and praying and requesting for justice

Many news stories captured and reported on here: https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110?fref=nf

I don't see the scb account of Andy mentioned. That was the most convenient for me and some others also.

[jimmybkk]

Words fail me so just, THANK YOU for being so supportive of these 2 guys and for reporting the day so well.

Awesome.

And they told me I am naive....

They were just being polite.

[Mooner]

Words fail me so just, THANK YOU for being so supportive of these 2 guys and for reporting the day so well.

Awesome.

And they told me I am naive....

People have a choice to form their own opinions and support their own views in this world. No need to be condescending!!

[siampolee]

AleG post # 211.

And they told me I am naive....

It is common knowledge that those who live in ''closeted'' worlds have no concept of the reality of life.

In their ''closeted'' worlds ''ignorance is bliss,''

Naive

adjective

1.

having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.

2.

having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information;credulous:

3.

having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training , education or technique:

[DennisF]

Words fail me so just, THANK YOU for being so supportive of these 2 guys and for reporting the day so well.

Awesome.

And they told me I am naive....

People have a choice to form their own opinions and support their own views in this world. No need to be condescending!!

I have a thick skin!!

It is encouraging that the self proclaimed crusader is still excited by my posts and feels compelled to respond, even to the smallest one.

\Good, perhaps he will remember this question he has not answered yet:

The following PROFESSIONAL people and organisations and members of the public have expressed serious concerns as to the handling of this case investigation and prosecution.

UK based fair rights group Reprieve.

Andy Hall well known and highly respected human rights activist.

Amnesty International.

The THAI national human rights committee

Sondhi Limthongkul

Head of Thasi forensics Dr. Pornthip

99% of the posters on this forum (estimate)

Almost 500,000 followers of a social media site that is in the top 18 sites on facebook

Change.org

The UK police who are just now starting to express opinions and views, none of them complimentary to the RTP

Lastly, and by no means least, the whole of the Burmese government has thrown its collective and not inconsiderable weight and influence into the believed innocence of 2 of its poorer citizens.

As for as I am aware this is unprecedented and not only can it bring serious consequences to international and trade relationships that are vital to Thailand it has lifted Myanmar to an elevated status on the international stage that Thaiiand can only envy.

Myanmar, its government and its people, we salute you, you are showing yourself to be awesome.

Please look at the lists above and name 1 international organisation that has declared publicly, on record, that they think the RTP have done a good investigation.

You cant can you??

[007cableguy]

Words fail me so just, THANK YOU for being so supportive of these 2 guys and for reporting the day so well.

Awesome.

And they told me I am naive....

People have a choice to form their own opinions and support their own views in this world. No need to be condescending!!

I have a thick skin!!

It is encouraging that the self proclaimed crusader is still excited by my posts and feels compelled to respond, even to the smallest one.

\Good, perhaps he will remember this question he has not answered yet:

The following PROFESSIONAL people and organisations and members of the public have expressed serious concerns as to the handling of this case investigation and prosecution.

UK based fair rights group Reprieve.

Andy Hall well known and highly respected human rights activist.

Amnesty International.

The THAI national human rights committee

Sondhi Limthongkul

Head of Thasi forensics Dr. Pornthip

99% of the posters on this forum (estimate)

Almost 500,000 followers of a social media site that is in the top 18 sites on facebook

Change.org

The UK police who are just now starting to express opinions and views, none of them complimentary to the RTP

Lastly, and by no means least, the whole of the Burmese government has thrown its collective and not inconsiderable weight and influence into the believed innocence of 2 of its poorer citizens.

As for as I am aware this is unprecedented and not only can it bring serious consequences to international and trade relationships that are vital to Thailand it has lifted Myanmar to an elevated status on the international stage that Thaiiand can only envy.

Myanmar, its government and its people, we salute you, you are showing yourself to be awesome.

Please look at the lists above and name 1 international organisation that has declared publicly, on record, that they think the RTP have done a good investigation.

You cant can you??

He/she can't ,He/she is struggling to come to terms how stupid he/she looks and but still continues with his/her bile!

[SLESQ]

More news from the court room. Apologies for the translation that I post here without editing to give the readers a better taste for the passion of the writer.

For donors who did not save the on line site or the banking information, so that these posts will not be removed by the TVA police, send me an IM and I will reply privately.

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/posts/763835117027549

Voice of America พม่า รายงานว่า ทางทนายฝ่ายจำเลยมีพยานปาก 31 คน พยาน 2 คนนั้นคือ นายฌอน กับ นาย คริสโตเฟอร์ด้วย

Report the witness list on Koh Tao murder case
By: Ma Aye Aye Mar (Voice of America, Bangkok, Thailand)
27th December 2014 (08:29)

/// Kho Tao special investigation committee backed by the Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok submitted the list of 31 witness report and their evidential testimonies were sent to Kho Saumui provincial court on Friday on accused two young men for two Britons double murder case on Kho Tao island in Thailand.

The provincial Judge allowed two foreign nationals to be testified requested by The Thai Lawyer Council. Ma Aye Aye Mar reported.

Two young Britons were murdered on Kho Tao island where there busy tourists area in Thailand on last September 15th. Thai police accused two Burmese national young adults with 7 sentences including murder, and rape case. Two young Burmese men pledged not guilty on the case and they were forced to admit earlier because of threatening and being tortured during interrogation. So, the Myanmar embassy formed a special investigation team and prepared to defense the case by twelve lawyers.

During pre-hearing at the Kho Saumui provincial court, when both sides’ witness lists were submitted, 31 witness list were reported for two Burmese youth, said by lawyer U Aung Myo Thant from the special investigation team by the Myanmar embassy in Bangkok.

“According to the Judge, before this 26th December both parties are asked to submitted the witness and the lists. There are 65 witnesses from prosecutor. We have got 31 including two foreign nationals (Britons). The court date will be beginning in July next year. Witnesses from prosecutor will be testified on 8th of July. Then, all of 65 will be finally questioned in August. And, in September, accused witness will be testified. I think, we are doing all right on court situation. It was likely a system because, the court used to act in a hurry by rashly testifies and immediately decided the case before. But, we have got a chance what we want to claim today. The case has been postponed the hearing date to 7 to 8 months time frame, the way how we wanted. On 8th of July, witness will be founded.We have got more time to choose valued strong witness.”

Twenty of Burmese witnesses were on the Kho Tao Island, where the crime location. The chair person of the upper house, U Khin Aung Myint and divisional governments, Human Trafficking police troops supported to those witness to be able to testify on the case.

During last court date, The Thai Lawyers’ Council requested the court to bring the two foreigners who might know the accident on Kho Murder case. The request was approved by the Judge, said by U Htoo Chit, a spokesperson of special investigation team by the Myanmar embassy.

“As we requested since last week, the Judge accepted it. But, not confirmed the date to be able to testify. It’s meant that, the witnesses will be testified if they were in Thailand at present. If not, detail is not announced yet.”

Within the two foreign witnesses, one is a friend of the victims, and the other one is the guitarist from the AC bar owned by the head of the Island. Both of them departed from the Island the next day right after accident. They were allowed to depart the country and found not related to the murder case after minor investigations by Thai police.

During the crime time, one witness had bloody clothing in his/her room, and the other witness had got the similar wounds on his body like the victims were being attacked. On the other hand, among Thai social media community has criticized on it because they were not thoroughly interrogated before they were dismissed to depart Thailand.

Thus, the Thai Lawyer council also believes that they both can be major witnesses of the Kho Tao double murder case. What if they were not in Thailand, and what could the special investigation team do about it? VOA asked.

“We have to discuss with the Thai Lawyers’ council upon whether it would be able to issue summons or not according to Thai Laws. The Myanmar government’s side is assisting us upon our request and advice as how much they could. If the Thai Lawyers say that, our special investigation team needs to call for witnesses, we will ask to the Thai government via official letter writing.”

Today, during the court pre-hearing time when accused suspects were ask to present the court room, family members and the Rakhine monks were also allowed to meet. For next witness testimony, so the court offered time over half of a year period, there will be the best preparation to gain bail for accused two Myanmar nationals and will try hard, said special investigation team. ///

Translated By: Chan Aye for CSI LA

http://burmese.voanews.com/…/murder-suspects-s…/2575560.html

[evadgib]

Unfettered declarations of innocence and no word whatsoever on what support this British lead group is offering to the parents of the deceased is a major red flag IMO. If they don't adopt a more professional/neutral approach we can expect some interesting footage next July when/if the families choose to attend.

Posted as a parent.

[Robby nz]

More news from the court room.

Looks from that report that the 2 Brits mentioned may be reluctant witnesses as the report talks about summonses.

Also the guitarist with similar wounds pretty much gives an identification.

It would seem that they are going to do their best to attempt to get bail for the Burmese 2 which is good news.

[DennisF]

More news from the court room.

Looks from that report that the 2 Brits mentioned may be reluctant witnesses as the report talks about summonses.

Also the guitarist with similar wounds pretty much gives an identification.

It would seem that they are going to do their best to attempt to get bail for the Burmese 2 which is good news.

I agree although I would guess that just 1 may be reluctant.

The other one has little to fear other than the intimidation he experienced before.

To put a name: Sean is a loose cannon with apparent serious personal issues and could be dismissed as an unreliable witness, that would not surprise me or many others.

It has to be remembered that just hours after his 'friend' was brutally murdered he was hosting a pub crawl less than a km away from where his 'friends' body was discovered.

Bail would be excellent, it is disturbing that these two should be incarcerated whilst awaiting trial. As the Myanmar government is prepared to guarantee their appearance at trial, flight risk is not an issue.

[greenchair]

Goodnight Denis. Goodnight Robby. Goodnight aleg. Goodnight jtj.goodnight defense team. Goodnight Zaw and Wei.

[thailandchilli]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

Trial Notes:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1518491378436914&id=100008281980139&fref=nf

FOR THOSE OF YOU FOLLOWING THE KOH TAO MURDER TRIAL

I attended yesterday along with the heroes working on little or no support. Below is my account of it:

Confessions of a Know-Nothing Farang or Impressions From Courtroom No. 1

or The Koh Tao Murders: Day One What’s On Trial

9:30 am, 26 December 2014, Koh Samui Provincial Courthouse, supposedly 3 km outside of Nathon.

Enter the courtroom, posted start time 9:00 am. Empty. Inquired a nearby gentleman as to the true location or time of the trial, he asks the guard. Reply, maybe around 10-ish, but I do have the right room. Turns out he’s part of the prosecution team.

Soon, there are three westerners inside, one is me. The others ask of my involvement. Casual, concern, my reply. They are advocates, the man in support, the woman on watch for human rights. Enter one Thai advocate lawyer, the wife of the foreigner man.

Prosecution files in, two counselors- one robed Prosecutor, one Chief Prosecutor for Samui, plus two assistants, reams of documents, spools of paper. Presently, four robed defense counsellors enter, produce a few stacks of docs. A door now opens along the back wall, and the two accused Burmese youths amble in, head-shaven, attired in prison burlap, lugging ankle chains and shy smiles, led by a Thai guard, and sit directly in front of me. This is at first unsettling.

No throngs, no protest group, no support for the deceased, none curious. Well, me. Add in the contingent for migrant workers’ rights, a few others, and the three rows of defense pews are nearly full. Three monks proceed straight behind prosecution, and quietly sit looking forward. The two rows behind them are empty.

Now the hoped-for moment arrives for the accused. The families have just arrived from Myanmar, pile in behind the imprisoned lads, black-jacketed FED escorts in tow, and a few of us retreat to the back row.

Two judges enter through their narrow side door, and all rise. As they sit, we sit. Game on.

This is Thai court, for me a new experience. The curiosity I feel immediately is the loose and casual nature of the proceedings. Low volume chat starts up all around, the centrally-seated judge begins talking and the prosecution begins replying and consulting documents, while my poor command of Thai language lacks the ability to follow anything first-hand.

It must be understood that all the case particulars have been explained to me after-the-fact, that in truth, this is a second-hand account of the Koh Tao Murder Trial, day one.

The left side judge is visibly ill, or quite in an uncomfortable state, and soon excuses himself, to be replaced later in the day with another judge. Meanwhile the witness list is being presented by prosecution. Apparently it’s quite lengthy, and the prosecutor requests that some of the names be excused from actually testifying.

The main defense counsellor, apparently playing hard ball, insists that if prosecution feels so many names need to be on the list, then they most certainly will appear in court, as well. Defense then produces their own witness list, and a similar discussion ensues for this. More than 70 individuals at this point, must at some point take the stand in this trial.

A second apparent prosecution blunder now comes to bear. Among the pronouncements of wrongdoing that prosecution proceeds to assign to the accused is the issue of the two lads working illegally there on Koh Tao. Of note here, is the implications this accusation would have for all of Koh Tao’s businesses- indeed for all islands in the Gulf and beyond- but never mind this for now. Defense immediately produces the passport of one of the Burmese lads, something that the police on the case somehow knew nothing of. Prosecution proceeds now to leaf through this passport, and at least one of their accusations has, by appearance, just now been squelched.

Lunch break, and our growing group of advocacy- for migrant workers, human rights- and pardon me for inserting myself for concern- are in frequent discussion about this and that in the case, convening over pews inside court, feverishly tapping news feed into cellphones out of court, and I am treated to a rich crash-course in how concern argues for lives in Thai legal proceedings.

I must inject here the astounded kind of respect I suddenly realize for people, everywhere, who extend concern into a life’s calling, often just scratching by or volunteering, with the limited funding offered for defensive support. I am among heroes today. Journalists, lawyers, rights’ workers, and the various justice campaigners all walking the tightrope of advocacy, where even slight wrong moves can result in heavy-handed negatives for their causes and defendants. My gut feels tight just in the writing of this.

Afternoon brings more prosecution evidence, long rolls of photo-infused paper unraveled before the judge, more pronouncements by document, more hushed conversation moving throughout the room. At one point- recanted to me- the judge flat out asks the accused if they in fact did commit this crime. Answer, no. Now the judge asks the accused if they in fact did not do this thing, could they perhaps enlighten the court as to clues towards who actually might have? Answer, again, no.

My inexperience demands to know at this point, is this in fact a jaw-dropper....certainly it seems astounding to me, and my Thai-speaking advocate friends look, well, astounded. Pure conjecture leaps forward by now asking if the judge in fact is now suddenly sympathetic towards the accused, and a measured optimism begins to rule the day for all on the defense side. Having said that, the main defense consellor is now seen at his bench in a knowing kind of grin, at times effusively beaming. This is becoming quite some day in court.

A judge in these courts has quite the duty-laden job, it seems. Much of the day for all is spent watching the judge discussing, questioning, receiving testimony, then filing through mounds of information and speaking into a recorder, occasionally, and re-playing it to listen, then passing on these now-official trial records to a headphoned person who sits off to the side with a monitor and types out the official transcriptions, while another assistant hands finished documents back to the judge.

Just before days’ end we learn of another break in the case. The judge now declares a delay in the trial, in order for defense to properly wade through the more than 400 pages of presented information and photo-reams- to honorably prepare its case.

The date of July 8 is given as the re-convening date. The defense team is cautiously joyous, the advocates nearly beside themselves. I am nearly horrified, knowing the accused must languish yet another seven months in thai jail. This is not lost on the mothers of the accused- both begin weeping and groping at their boys, and are gently restrained by the guard. Still, one in this game must learn to count blessings however they may be given, as is duly explained to me.

It is suggested to me by the advocates to go over and visit the accused, as it would do them some good to talk with people. Two of us then sit with them for a full ten minutes, offering what fellowship and encouragement as one might, all things considered. It occurs to me now, how diminutive, delicate and sensitive these two are, polite, respectful; befitting of Asian youth who have been properly raised. We are introduced to the mothers, and duly pre-empted as one of the quiet monks comes to bestow blessings upon the boys.

I summarize this account with a question: What’s on trial here?

Certainly, two Burmese migrant workers, caught in the vicinity on the night in question, and charged with murder. Violent assailants or covenient scapegoats, for lack of other immediate candidates?

Due Process, on trial.

Prosecution, being received more cautiously, more icily throughout the day by a judge just not having the parade of prosecution information as presented, and bestowing an increased leniency towards the defense.

Integrity, on trial.

If we assume the two accused Burmese to be victims of convenient selection, to thereby stand for murder, why were they in fact chosen? Culpable probability or social status? For exhibiting signs of guilt and dripping with evidence, or for being expendable human fodder?

Human Decency, on trial.

And finally, Buddhist monks not commonly seen in Thai court, sitting immediate to prosecution and calmly staring at the judge throughout the day.

Karma, on trial.

just thoughts. consider this freeware. utilize edit or file inactive, your call.

Koh Pha-Ngan, 27 December 2014.

Thanks for the great report that projects the dedication you have to seeing a fair trial for the B2. Please keep us here at TV informed as much as you can, we all appreciate the work you are putting into this alongside the defense team and Andy.

I notice Andrew Drummond has now also published your report today on his website and after speaking to people at the court today he also confirms its contents.

[SLESQ]

There is ever expanding news coverage over the atrocity being carried out by the RTP and the prosecution office on the islands.

Great stories are on line and on the air that tell the true story of this very sick den of mafia toughs, on all three islands.

Look here to see photos proudly posted on facebook by some Koh Tao 'locals'. The idiotic thugs on Kho Tao are mocking the deaths and all the while the two innocent lads are on trial for their lives. And the “milk” <monk> was just given his robes. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152490756817274&set=a.44716087273.67425.540127273&type=1&theater

There is only a wee glimmer of hope. While the prosecution has a heavy burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, there is still some reasonable doubt justice here will prevail in the fact of the bribes already paid to many by the mafia bosses.

We need substantial sums to defend this case, to carry us forward during the next 7 months of investigation allowed us, and then to carry on in Court for the three months testimony is expected to take.

The sums needed can be frightening unless we can find a few large donors. Please reach out to all who you know. Please.

Sadly the TVA rules will not allow me to post the way to make contribution. PLEASE IM me. Click my ID SLESQ, then look on the upper right to find the button “Send me amessage.” Ask or tell me what you will and I will send the information to you directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch… Metropolitan police now admit confusion in Thai police investigation

http://mikeestravels.com/…/the-dark-side-of-thailands-isla…/ THE DARK SIDE OF THAILAND’S ISLAND PARADISE

[AleG]

I have a thick skin!!

It is encouraging that the self proclaimed crusader is still excited by my posts and feels compelled to respond, even to the smallest one.

\Good, perhaps he will remember this question he has not answered yet:

The following PROFESSIONAL people and organisations and members of the public have expressed serious concerns as to the handling of this case investigation and prosecution.

UK based fair rights group Reprieve.

Andy Hall well known and highly respected human rights activist.

Amnesty International.

The THAI national human rights committee

Sondhi Limthongkul

Head of Thasi forensics Dr. Pornthip

99% of the posters on this forum (estimate)

Almost 500,000 followers of a social media site that is in the top 18 sites on facebook

Change.org

The UK police who are just now starting to express opinions and views, none of them complimentary to the RTP

Lastly, and by no means least, the whole of the Burmese government has thrown its collective and not inconsiderable weight and influence into the believed innocence of 2 of its poorer citizens.

As for as I am aware this is unprecedented and not only can it bring serious consequences to international and trade relationships that are vital to Thailand it has lifted Myanmar to an elevated status on the international stage that Thaiiand can only envy.

Myanmar, its government and its people, we salute you, you are showing yourself to be awesome.

Please look at the lists above and name 1 international organisation that has declared publicly, on record, that they think the RTP have done a good investigation.

You cant can you??

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

[uty6543]

I have a thick skin!!

It is encouraging that the self proclaimed crusader is still excited by my posts and feels compelled to respond, even to the smallest one.

\Good, perhaps he will remember this question he has not answered yet:

The following PROFESSIONAL people and organisations and members of the public have expressed serious concerns as to the handling of this case investigation and prosecution.

UK based fair rights group Reprieve.

Andy Hall well known and highly respected human rights activist.

Amnesty International.

The THAI national human rights committee

Sondhi Limthongkul

Head of Thasi forensics Dr. Pornthip

99% of the posters on this forum (estimate)

Almost 500,000 followers of a social media site that is in the top 18 sites on facebook

Change.org

The UK police who are just now starting to express opinions and views, none of them complimentary to the RTP

Lastly, and by no means least, the whole of the Burmese government has thrown its collective and not inconsiderable weight and influence into the believed innocence of 2 of its poorer citizens.

As for as I am aware this is unprecedented and not only can it bring serious consequences to international and trade relationships that are vital to Thailand it has lifted Myanmar to an elevated status on the international stage that Thaiiand can only envy.

Myanmar, its government and its people, we salute you, you are showing yourself to be awesome.

Please look at the lists above and name 1 international organisation that has declared publicly, on record, that they think the RTP have done a good investigation.

You cant can you??

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

Even if the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?

As long as the people you want to protect aren't implicated.

[AleG]

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

Even if the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?

As long as the people you want to protect aren't implicated.

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

There is ever expanding news coverage over the atrocity being carried out by the RTP and the prosecution office on the islands.

Great stories are on line and on the air that tell the true story of this very sick den of mafia toughs, on all three islands.

Look here to see photos proudly posted on facebook by some Koh Tao 'locals'. The idiotic thugs on Kho Tao are mocking the deaths and all the while the two innocent lads are on trial for their lives. And the milk <monk> was just given his robes. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152490756817274&set=a.44716087273.67425.540127273&type=1&theater

There is only a wee glimmer of hope. While the prosecution has a heavy burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, there is still some reasonable doubt justice here will prevail in the fact of the bribes already paid to many by the mafia bosses.

We need substantial sums to defend this case, to carry us forward during the next 7 months of investigation allowed us, and then to carry on in Court for the three months testimony is expected to take.

The sums needed can be frightening unless we can find a few large donors. Please reach out to all who you know. Please.

Sadly the TVA rules will not allow me to post the way to make contribution. PLEASE IM me. Click my ID SLESQ, then look on the upper right to find the button Send me amessage. Ask or tell me what you will and I will send the information to you directly.

Metropolitan police now admit confusion in Thai police investigation

http://mikeestravels.com//the-dark-side-of-thailands-isla/ THE DARK SIDE OF THAILANDS ISLAND PARADISE

I want believe the SLESQ is a legitimate organisation. I want to contribute to the b2. But when I see your post picture is a man dressed in drag. Especially a man dressed in drag with blonde hair. I would be very dubious about where I am sending my money.

Considering that in the original investigation, there was thought to be a blonde ladyboy at the sight.

[uty6543]

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

Even if the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?

As long as the people you want to protect aren't implicated.

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

Neither of us can prove any evidence or can you?

1. Coerced evidence. I believe the RTP are due to appear today before The Thai human rights commission to answer questions about their interrogation techniques so perhaps we will know more later today.

2. Evidence ignored. Failure to find people in CCTV footage. No 9 and the running man which I think is Nomsod Why has that person not been found?

Their refusal to share Nomsods DNA claiming with the British police claiming they were happy with their investigation which we know is a lie.

I would be very grateful if you could spare the time to consider it

[CharlieH]

off topic removed

[Thai at Heart]

why did not the British investigators take DNA samples from the two boys and test them against the semen in the decesed body? Surely it is the first thing to be done. Or did the RTP refuse to let them?

I don't think the brit police can just call up the defense and say 'hey we have dna evidence 'that would be interference. The prosecution decided not to use the brit experts in their case. But there is no reason the defense cannot utilise the brit police and coroner.

the defense is entitled to send a written request to the coroner and ask them to test dna in regards to hannah.

Because the bodies have to be embalmed to be shipped....

[thailandchilli]

I have a thick skin!!

It is encouraging that the self proclaimed crusader is still excited by my posts and feels compelled to respond, even to the smallest one.

\Good, perhaps he will remember this question he has not answered yet:

The following PROFESSIONAL people and organisations and members of the public have expressed serious concerns as to the handling of this case investigation and prosecution.

UK based fair rights group Reprieve.

Andy Hall well known and highly respected human rights activist.

Amnesty International.

The THAI national human rights committee

Sondhi Limthongkul

Head of Thasi forensics Dr. Pornthip

99% of the posters on this forum (estimate)

Almost 500,000 followers of a social media site that is in the top 18 sites on facebook

Change.org

The UK police who are just now starting to express opinions and views, none of them complimentary to the RTP

Lastly, and by no means least, the whole of the Burmese government has thrown its collective and not inconsiderable weight and influence into the believed innocence of 2 of its poorer citizens.

As for as I am aware this is unprecedented and not only can it bring serious consequences to international and trade relationships that are vital to Thailand it has lifted Myanmar to an elevated status on the international stage that Thaiiand can only envy.

Myanmar, its government and its people, we salute you, you are showing yourself to be awesome.

Please look at the lists above and name 1 international organisation that has declared publicly, on record, that they think the RTP have done a good investigation.

You cant can you??

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

Ok got it, you don't care about the opinions and serious concerns from Amnesty International, or the concerns from Reprieve, let alone the concerns of a cover up (corruption) from the UK government or even the confusion and inconsistency in the evidence that the UK police recently reported that was presented to them.

You don't care about opinions, no we can see that AleG all you care about is your version of the truth and facts that is plain for everybody to see and judge you by.

You want facts, some of the examples I presented above are not only by respected organisations but also by the UK police who had the facts of the evidence supplied to them by the RTP.

[aimbc]

I don't care what people and organizations believe, specially not imaginary people, like your 99% or TV posters or half a million Facebook people; I care about what the evidence proves, you know, facts, not opinions.

Even if the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?

As long as the people you want to protect aren't implicated.

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

That's the issue here. They have been asked to prove that, butt police refused to meet and answer. So what do they have to hide. The two innocent detainees who made the allegation deserve the same respect of the inquiry, it's that right. Why have they been denied? Keep in mind, as nothing has been proven. Just allegations by the police of their crimes at this point.

[AleG]

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

Neither of us can prove any evidence or can you?

1. Coerced evidence. I believe the RTP are due to appear today before The Thai human rights commission to answer questions about their interrogation techniques so perhaps we will know more later today.

2. Evidence ignored. Failure to find people in CCTV footage. No 9 and the running man which I think is Nomsod Why has that person not been found?

Their refusal to share Nomsods DNA claiming with the British police claiming they were happy with their investigation which we know is a lie.

I would be very grateful if you could spare the time to consider it

Speculation is not evidence. as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not. If they were tortured that is a separate issue, it has no bearing on the facts of the crime in Koh Tao.

[uty6543]

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

Neither of us can prove any evidence or can you?

1. Coerced evidence. I believe the RTP are due to appear today before The Thai human rights commission to answer questions about their interrogation techniques so perhaps we will know more later today.

2. Evidence ignored. Failure to find people in CCTV footage. No 9 and the running man which I think is Nomsod Why has that person not been found?

Their refusal to share Nomsods DNA claiming with the British police claiming they were happy with their investigation which we know is a lie.

I would be very grateful if you could spare the time to consider it

Speculation is not evidence. as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not. If they were tortured that is a separate issue, it has no bearing on the facts of the crime in Koh Tao.

OK I've got it in your mind torture doesn't mater because it does not change the facts.

What about the ignored evidence?

DNA only proves sex not rape or murder so what are the facts that could convict the B2.

[BritTim]

Speculation is not evidence. as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not. If they were tortured that is a separate issue, it has no bearing on the facts of the crime in Koh Tao.

... as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not

I'll accept that with two provisos:

• If the police had firm evidence that the B2 were guilty, why would they need coerced confessions? They would not, and it would be remarkably stupid of them to muddy the waters in this way.
• Can we agree that if there is real doubt that the confessions were freely given in the presence of their lawyer and using a qualified translator, then the confessions should not be considered admissible evidence?

I wait with interest to view the remaining reliable evidence (with the coerced confessions discounted). Then we can judge the facts.

By the way, at which date do you believe the RTP started to tell the truth about suspects they had with strong evidence? Is the problem the B2 have that they are the first "suspects" that could not produce a strong alibi or buy their freedom?

[greenchair]

Prove this "the evidence has been coerced or manipulated and good evidence ignored or not investigated?", then I may consider it.

Neither of us can prove any evidence or can you?

1. Coerced evidence. I believe the RTP are due to appear today before The Thai human rights commission to answer questions about their interrogation techniques so perhaps we will know more later today.

2. Evidence ignored. Failure to find people in CCTV footage. No 9 and the running man which I think is Nomsod Why has that person not been found?

Their refusal to share Nomsods DNA claiming with the British police claiming they were happy with their investigation which we know is a lie.

I would be very grateful if you could spare the time to consider it

Speculation is not evidence. as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not. If they were tortured that is a separate issue, it has no bearing on the facts of the crime in Koh Tao.

Well for once I agree the confession should not make one iota of difference for either the defense or the prosecution in regards to the murder and evidence. However if the prosecution is using the confession as a strong piece of evidence in their case. Then the defense must fight tooth and nail to have it discredited.

[Gweiloman]

Speculation is not evidence. as for the confession of the Burmese, they could had put them through the rack and it would still not make one bit of difference whether they are the murderers or not. If they were tortured that is a separate issue, it has no bearing on the facts of the crime in Koh Tao.

Pray tell, what are the "facts" that point to the B2 being the perpetrators of this horrendous crime?

DNA match? Is this DNA match to semen found in/on Hannah? Or just DNA match to some other part of Hannah? Is is also matched to DNA found on David? Is there no possibility that the DNA could be planted thus creating reasonable doubt?

Putting DNA aside, what other "facts" are there? Any witnesses to the actual crime? Or just witnesses stating that the B2 were in the vicinity of the crime scene? Is this sufficient "fact"?

What else? Confession? Since retracted, claimed to be extracted under torture. Do you still insist that the claimed coerced confession proves that the B2 were responsible?

Possession of victims' belongings? Beyond reasonable doubt? Or possibility that it was planted?

Lots of other muddied issues not worth going into.

The FACT of the matter is that the investigation has been seen to be poorly handled. The police statements have been full of inconsistencies and IN FACT points to a cover up. With the possible exception of DNA match, all the other "evidence" is circumstantial at best.

You and your cohorts disgust me with your attempts to be the good guys and your claimed pursuit of the truth. The fact is that if you are sincerely interested in the truth, you would be calling the RTP into account for their sloppy handling of the whole investigation since day one.

[evadgib]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

I am a retired lawyer, a man of 70 years and blessed with four sons, with over 45 years active board and court room experience, who has successfully litigated over 200 criminal prosecutions and defended more than 2,000 (contract/torn non-criminal) civil matters.

With all that experience I'm curious as to what would happen if opposing council/legal team/supporters in any court you attended unilateraly declared their client(s) innocent via social media prior to or during a hearing?

[catsanddogs]

From FB.

fbmon.htm