Bosnian/Canadian arrested for real estate fraud in Pattaya

[vision2014]

Thanks Scammed. I was the person who started this topic and I appreciate your honest and detailed reply. Frequently, TV responses are simplistic and do not focus on the topic being discussed.

I purchased several "off plan" condos from Matrix in 2012 and have gone through a number of painful learning experiences. Construction delays, inferior construction quality, misrepresentation of the facilities to be built (ie. number of parking spaces, pool design, lack of gym equipment) are just a few examples. I do not think Matrix is the only Developer who fails to deliver on their commitments and your insight on Golden View is beneficial to readers who may be considering investing in "off plan" properties.

I may start another topic on the challenges condo owners may experience once they move in. Once the Government gives approval for owners to take possession of their condos, there can be a whole new set of challenges including the Developer being slow to transfer the Common Fees and Sinking fund money to the condo owners bank account as well as doing the warranty repair work.

Hopefully readers will share useful information on this topic as well.

[Asiantravel]

Don't buy a condo until it's at least half built.

the top half or the bottom half?

[Asiantravel]

More advice for those considering purchasing a condo in Thailand and this comes from my other son who is a lawyer in Bangkok:and my daughter who works for one of the big banks in Chiang Mai.

Find a long and well established Thai real estate agent preferably those that have an office in town and websites. Check with your banks, they may have many on their lists. Check online for convincing reviews and exactly how long the company has been trading and in operation. If you have a savvy Thai wife or girlfriend visit the real estate agent office with them to make inquiries, ask other residents on the estates you are viewing for their opinions and pros and cons of living there, make notes and ensure that you understand everything fully, do not take anything for granted on word of mouth and face value. Also check out the developers and managing agents, who is involved, what they do and for how much per year. Obtain a copy of the lease or contract if possible.to peruse and study. If interested in a unit and satisfied with the agent and terms and conditions, obtain the services of a reputable lawyer to draw up the contracts and complete more checks if possible.

Don`t leave anything to chance and avoid rushing in just because a company has a posh website, appears credible or a so-called friend who is probably aiming for some commissions recommends it.

Another ploy that can be used to establish how long a real estate company has been in existence if they have a website is to do a search on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine

http://archive.org/web/web.php

There are also many big name real estate agents that have stalls located in the large shopping malls and are well established, quite often with a pretty little lady sitting behind all those plastic model residences in glass cases.

Take your time, make sure you are aware and understand everything, who and what is involved. Better to have peace of mind rather than end up with a piece of nothing just because something appeared to be a great deal and done in by the unscrupulous who would sell out their own mothers if the price was right. There are many of those in Thailand, trust me on this one.

the Escrow Act was introduced in Thailand in May, 2008 to protect purchasers who buy off the plan. But if people still choose to go ahead and give their hard earned money to developers who don't participate in escrow they get no sympathy from me when they lose their money.

http://www.tilleke.com/sites/default/files/2010_TAB_using_TH_escorw_act.pdf

[fosseway]

Thank you Asiantravel, for posting this. http://www.tilleke.c..._escorw_act.pdf

ESCROW ACCOUNT, very simple really, if the developer cannot offer the buyer this protection, don't go anywhere near it, end of story.

I have even seen developers adverts quoting "It's all about trust" My thinking is that trust should not come into it, it should read " It's all about the escrow act"

Many comments here about getting a good lawyer, just forget that as well, here is an example of a condo development in Jomtien, there was a one Rai beachfront plot that was supposed to be common area, eventually the committee and duly elected Juristic person took the developer to court for not handing it over, and won the case, the developer then appealed the court decision and won the land back through a Supreme court ruling, some 25 years later !! costs must have been enormous.

Pattaya condo "Flipping" is no longer a viable business, due to the over supply situation here, so why put your money into a developers promise. If you want to find a home, just buy into an existing building, you can look at the balance sheet, and the finished product.

[gk10002000]

Sorry, but "buying on the come" as they say is just too risky. Sure you get the sales pitch and hype about locking in a lower price or rate, how they are going fast, etc.. but the bottom line is you are putting money out before you get anything. If you can't see it, don't pay for it. There are plenty of other places around for sale.

[KittenKong]

I may start another topic on the challenges condo owners may experience once they move in. Once the Government gives approval for owners to take possession of their condos, there can be a whole new set of challenges including the Developer being slow to transfer the Common Fees and Sinking fund money to the condo owners bank account as well as doing the warranty repair work.

It can take anything up to 5 years or more from completion to the time when the developer actually relinquishes management control of the building, during which time they can quite easily deplete the sinking fund and pay themselves a lot of fees and commissions out of common fee income, not to mention not paying the common fees on unsold units that they still own (all of this has happened here).

I like buildings where the co-owners are in charge and the finances are sound.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KittenKong

[lonewolf99]

Thank god it wasn't an African-Finnish. Or a Croatian-Paraguayan. Or a Thai-Peruvian.

I laughed out loud at this one,,,,, Actually there is bar in the Rompho Road Jomtien Bar complex that has a Peruvian flag.

If the owner/s is Peruvian and has a Thai GF/Wife they might have children that will fall in to the last category mentioned above.....

I've even met a Kenyan lady who was married to a Finnish guy but she divorced him coz he was a drunken diabetic and a "Jaffa". (seedless) from Only Fools and Horses. British thing.

Getting back on the topic.

I was sent an unsolicited e-mail from this very developer earlier this year.

Property ownership is about bricks and mortar - not someone else's pipe dreams and pies in the skies....I hope he ends up in jail for 30 years then deported for 1,000 years.

[balo]

Don't buy a condo until it's at least half built.

Or a better advise, do not buy but rent instead if you intend to live there.

[Scottiedog]

Hi all I've just joined the forum as I've just been sent a copy of this topic from my girlfriend and I don't have a clue what is going on.

I found out a week ago about the Developers of Golden View had been arrested for fraud. Unfortunately I'm in for 40k I only had my last stage payment before I get the keys.

I'm currently working in Malaysia so haven't got to back to Pattaya. Does anyone know where the money is or has it all gone? Does anyone know if there is any chance of seeing it again and how long it could take to get to the bottom of this.

I got an email from a lawyer to give power of attorney to represent me but have received no information from him what is going on or what costs might be involved.

Confused.com please help????

[KittenKong]

Not exactly evidence but I drove past the Masters showroom the other morning and all the shutters were down and it looked abandoned.

As for getting your money back, unless the developer actually owns the land the condo is supposed to be built on (and reports above suggest that they dont), or some other asset, then there is unlikely to be much left to split up between creditors, especially once lawyers have taken their pound of flesh.

Developers often form new companies for each project in order to keep them separate from other projects for precisely this sort of reason.

I do think that in Thailand it's advisable to only pay for things as they actually progress and never pay much in advance. This applies with small-scale renovation work as well as with new builds.

[vision2014]

Hi all I've just joined the forum as I've just been sent a copy of this topic from my girlfriend and I don't have a clue what is going on.

I found out a week ago about the Developers of Golden View had been arrested for fraud. Unfortunately I'm in for 40k I only had my last stage payment before I get the keys.

I'm currently working in Malaysia so haven't got to back to Pattaya. Does anyone know where the money is or has it all gone? Does anyone know if there is any chance of seeing it again and how long it could take to get to the bottom of this.

I got an email from a lawyer to give power of attorney to represent me but have received no information from him what is going on or what costs might be involved.

Confused.com please help????

I started this post in December and since Dec.17 there has been no new information on the status of the legal proceedings (and since we are in Thailand there is a good chance the scumbag may bribe the authorities and nothing will happen). I am guessing you purchased a unit in the Masters or Imperial Twins. The Developer, Golden View had being taking deposits on both projects for the past two years or more. No substantive construction has taken place on either project (you have probably noticed that there are no photos of construction work posted on the Developer's web sites which always rings "warning bells"). KittenKong is correct that the Developer probably formed a new Company for protection from creditors. I suspect the Purchase Contract you signed will NOT indicate that the seller is Golden View or the Masters. Instead the contract will list the seller as a Company you have never heard of and if you dig deeper the Company will have approximately 3,000,000 Bhat of capital minimizing G.V's financial exposure I was mildly surprised that a lawyer contacted offering to represent you. Maybe the lawyer is attempting to get a group of buyers together and initiate a class action lawsuit. However the Thai judicial system lacks the transparency of Western Countries and I suggest you be cautious about spending money pursuing legal action. If I hear more about Golden View, I will send you a PM.

[Scottiedog]

Thanks for taking the time to post people.....

I purchased a condo on Masters Residence and I did receive pictures of the piling and the concrete being poured for the foundations so thought all was good. I was told the levels were constructed offsite then brought to site in block units and constructed so never really had any reason to question it. My contract is signed by the first pleb who has been arrested and it is all paper headed Golden View Development Company Ltd. I also had it checked over by a Thai solicitor before going ahead. I bought through Rightmoves.Pattaya thinking being from the TV I'd covered all my bases and looks like I've still got burnt.

The lawyer didn't contact me direct it was the guys from Rightmoves who had been contacted by him notifying them of the situation and they let me know. Otherwise I'd have been still none the wiser.

Earliest I can get back to Pattaya is March so I suppose I'll come talk to the lawyer and if it looks like the money is gone I'll just have to write it off............

[Scottiedog]

Condominium construction is not my area of expertise but seemed viable its not too big a building module construction isn't new technology......

[Asiantravel]

Hi all I've just joined the forum as I've just been sent a copy of this topic from my girlfriend and I don't have a clue what is going on.

I found out a week ago about the Developers of Golden View had been arrested for fraud. Unfortunately I'm in for 40k I only had my last stage payment before I get the keys.

I'm currently working in Malaysia so haven't got to back to Pattaya. Does anyone know where the money is or has it all gone? Does anyone know if there is any chance of seeing it again and how long it could take to get to the bottom of this.

I got an email from a lawyer to give power of attorney to represent me but have received no information from him what is going on or what costs might be involved.

Confused.com please help????

I started this post in December and since Dec.17 there has been no new information on the status of the legal proceedings (and since we are in Thailand there is a good chance the scumbag may bribe the authorities and nothing will happen). I am guessing you purchased a unit in the Masters or Imperial Twins. The Developer, Golden View had being taking deposits on both projects for the past two years or more. No substantive construction has taken place on either project (you have probably noticed that there are no photos of construction work posted on the Developer's web sites which always rings "warning bells"). KittenKong is correct that the Developer probably formed a new Company for protection from creditors. I suspect the Purchase Contract you signed will NOT indicate that the seller is Golden View or the Masters. Instead the contract will list the seller as a Company you have never heard of and if you dig deeper the Company will have approximately 3,000,000 Bhat of capital minimizing G.V's financial exposure I was mildly surprised that a lawyer contacted offering to represent you. Maybe the lawyer is attempting to get a group of buyers together and initiate a class action lawsuit. However the Thai judicial system lacks the transparency of Western Countries and I suggest you be cautious about spending money pursuing legal action. If I hear more about Golden View, I will send you a PM.

Sounds like he put more effort into planning this fraud than into constructing the building itself

[KittenKong]

Earliest I can get back to Pattaya is March so I suppose I'll come talk to the lawyer and if it looks like the money is gone I'll just have to write it off............

At the very least you should file a complaint with the police so as to add weight to whatever court case may arise one day. It wouldn't hurt to send copies to the Mayor and TAT, pointing out how appealing for tourists this sort of thing is.

If the agency who promoted the project to you has any decency they should be keen to refund you their commission, assuming they received any. That's what I would do anyway.

[lonewolf99]

So all that Glitters is not Golden (View).

I blame the following for the very fact this thread is on here.

1. Thailand for having no proper building controls. (Whatsoever)

2. Low life scum who carry out these scams.

3. People who do not take good sound old fashioned advise about buying property.

4. Thailand again for seemingly having no control of the kind of people who come into the country.

I do not know all that is on a microchip inside a passport. But I think in the case of Thailand anyone having a chip showing you have any previous "form" allows you to come and stay as long as you like and set up scams like this. Whilst decent honest folk who just want to come here and have a bloody good time have to leave every 30 days and get buggered about and interrogated at the airport even if you obviously have the funds to pay for those flights and and extended leasure time.

Taking these 2 guys out and dragging them bare butt naked by a rope tied to stampeding buffalos the length of Beach Road and then flogging them with barbed wire would be too good for them in my books.

sadly I think the "investors" will never see one red sattang of their money.

And here is some more sound advise - do not even think of using a Thai lawyer as that would be throwing more money into a black hole with no return.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, someone told me a long time ago, if you cant touch it hold it or see it, dont buy it.

Pie in the sky dreams, greed, suckers thinking they were getting something for nothing, or in for a quick profit, aka flippers.

Greed the oldest and easiest human emotion to tap into.

[KittenKong]

..... someone told me a long time ago, if you cant touch it hold it or see it, dont buy it.

It all depends on what and where it is.

I remember some 40-odd years ago buying my first house off-plan in the UK. It was being built by a reputable national builder (still in existence) and I had no doubt that they would finish the job or, if they didn't, that various laws were in place to protect me from losing any money. I only actually put down a couple of hundred GBP of my own money and all the rest was paid by the mortgage company on completion. Nothing was paid during the build.

I signed for it at 11,000GBP and by the time I moved in the same year it was worth 14,000GBP. A few years later it sold (easily) for just under 20,000GBP.

OK that was back in the 70s with inflation running at 15% or more, but even so it was a very good buy. I think the same houses are now worth around 200K.

But I would not use that experience as a guide to probable condo price movements in Pattaya today.

[Scottiedog]

I'd happily go with Lonewolfs advise and pay good money to have it done!!!!

"Taking these 2 guys out and dragging them bare butt naked by a rope tied to stampeding buffalos the length of Beach Road and then flogging them with barbed wire would be too good for them in my books"

I'll see the lawyer when I get up in March and if I don't think there is any valve pursuing I'll take your advice and pull the plug.

rgs2001uk ------ I'm none of what you mention I just worked hard saved up some money to invest in a small property to use while I'm working in Malaysia.

KittenKong - Thanks for your advice I will go back to the agent and see where they are in all of this.

Scott

[rgs2001uk]

..... someone told me a long time ago, if you cant touch it hold it or see it, dont buy it.

It all depends on what and where it is.

I remember some 40-odd years ago buying my first house off-plan in the UK. It was being built by a reputable national builder (still in existence) and I had no doubt that they would finish the job or, if they didn't, that various laws were in place to protect me from losing any money. I only actually put down a couple of hundred GBP of my own money and all the rest was paid by the mortgage company on completion. Nothing was paid during the build.

I signed for it at 11,000GBP and by the time I moved in the same year it was worth 14,000GBP. A few years later it sold (easily) for just under 20,000GBP.

OK that was back in the 70s with inflation running at 15% or more, but even so it was a very good buy. I think the same houses are now worth around 200K.

But I would not use that experience as a guide to probable condo price movements in Pattaya today.

Yes, I should have been more specific, meant to say in Thailand, for exactly the reasons you outlined above.

[Asiantravel]

Scott considering it won’t cost you anything (unlike engaging lawyers ) I would also recommend that you submit a formal complaint to the Office of the Consumer Protection Board in Thailand. (See the Web page link below).

This government department has quite a bit of clout because it is closely connected to the office of the Prime Minister in Thailand. Last year I submitted a complaint against one of Thailand’s largest companies regarding a different consumer matter and I was very impressed with the way OCPB handled my complaint and made the company refund everything right down to the last baht.

I watched General Prayuth the Prime Minister on television last night giving his weekly state of affairs address and it’s pretty obvious from his address the government is now worried about the reputation of this country due to so many recent scandals because he announced last night they have just set up 200-million-baht assistance fund to regain the trust of foreign tourists.It is reported in the Bangkok Post but I'm not allowed to post that link here. But it is to cover " Any tourist who travels to Thailand and is affected by violence, terrorism, natural disasters, accidents, transport delays, crime or any other threat which was not their fault " will be eligible to apply for compensation.

I know you are not a tourist and you would not likely qualify under that fund but you just never know what your official complaint could lead to? It’s worth a try anyway. You could say if you didn’t get your money back (or at least part of it)you would expose this to the international media.

You could say that despite this kind of thing going on for many years Thailand has done absolutely nothing to protect real estate buyers who have suffered the way you have.

http://www.ocpb.go.th/ewtadmin/ewt/ocpb_eng/main.php?filename=index___EN

Edited January 31, 2015 by Asiantravel

[Scottiedog]

Asiantravel- Thanks for the info I'm going to lodge a formal complaint nothing ventured......and all that!!

[Asiantravel]

Asiantravel- Thanks for the info I'm going to lodge a formal complaint nothing ventured......and all that!!

Good on you! I also forgot to mention what I consider to be another distinct advantage of using this government department.

As you may or may not know Thailand has ridiculously draconian defamation laws which can even result in someone being sued for saying something about a person or organisation even if the statement is factual. It’s quite bizarre.

But if you are making all your accusations through this government agency which is established for the sole purpose of protecting the consumer you can write away and criticise the people you have been dealing with through the OCPB to your hearts content and no one can touch you legally.

[ScammedByGoldenView]

I started this post in December and since Dec.17 there has been no new information on the status of the legal proceedings (and since we are in Thailand there is a good chance the scumbag may bribe the authorities and nothing will happen). I am guessing you purchased a unit in the Masters or Imperial Twins. The Developer, Golden View had being taking deposits on both projects for the past two years or more. No substantive construction has taken place on either project (you have probably noticed that there are no photos of construction work posted on the Developer's web sites which always rings "warning bells"). KittenKong is correct that the Developer probably formed a new Company for protection from creditors. I suspect the Purchase Contract you signed will NOT indicate that the seller is Golden View or the Masters. Instead the contract will list the seller as a Company you have never heard of and if you dig deeper the Company will have approximately 3,000,000 Bhat of capital minimizing G.V's financial exposure I was mildly surprised that a lawyer contacted offering to represent you. Maybe the lawyer is attempting to get a group of buyers together and initiate a class action lawsuit. However the Thai judicial system lacks the transparency of Western Countries and I suggest you be cautious about spending money pursuing legal action. If I hear more about Golden View, I will send you a PM.

This is what already happened, there have been a class action law suit from both Ken Law and Magna Carta, representing a group of customers.

I suggest one to use Ken Law and ask him to work on a success fee. Around 15% of whatever money he can rescue is considered a resonable rate.

The more people filing lawsuits against Marko Vujic and Golden View, the longer time he will spend in prison.

About all the contracts has been signed by Bojan Prorok, not Marko Vujic, since Bojan was the boss of GVD up until the late summer.

[ScammedByGoldenView]

Hi all I've just joined the forum as I've just been sent a copy of this topic from my girlfriend and I don't have a clue what is going on.

I found out a week ago about the Developers of Golden View had been arrested for fraud. Unfortunately I'm in for 40k I only had my last stage payment before I get the keys.

I'm currently working in Malaysia so haven't got to back to Pattaya. Does anyone know where the money is or has it all gone? Does anyone know if there is any chance of seeing it again and how long it could take to get to the bottom of this.

I got an email from a lawyer to give power of attorney to represent me but have received no information from him what is going on or what costs might be involved.

Confused.com please help????

First off all, I am sorry for your loss. We are many that have lost substancial amount of money here. Do not sign any papers before you know all the terms and conditions. We are many that are with Ken Law and so far he has been good and helpful.

Marko Vujic is currently at Nong pla lai prison. He has been trying to get out on bail, but has been denied so far.

As far as the funds in GVD account, Ken Law told us there were only a few thousand baths left in the account by the time Marko got arrested. Most likely the money has been sent abroad.

[ScammedByGoldenView]

This e-mail we got from Golden View admin AFTER Marko Vujic got arrested. It should be quite clear for all of us that the way this e-mail is written is not typical "thai-style" of english, so most likely not written by any of the by then remaining thai GVD employees. I assume the e-mail comes from Bojan Prorok, he should be the only one left that has access to the GVD admin account after Markos arrest.

Dear Customer,  Regarding The Masters Residence Project is being process of EIAsubmittal. Therefore , the construction still not commence. Please do not make your furtherpayment until we get EIA approved and the project start. Do not follow  Section 3 on theContract that says :  “The Buyer agrees to strictly comply with the terms and condition ofsection 2. In case the Buyer is in default of making payment for any installment, regardlessof any reason whatsoever or if the Buyer is unable to secure money from any otherfinancial institutions to make payment to the Seller within the specified time, it shall bedeemed that the Buyer is in default.  If the Seller has notified the Buyer of such default byemail or registered mail and the Buyer does not make the payment within the then (10) days time ofthe Seller sending the notification to the registered address/office, the Seller isentitled to terminate this agreement forthwith and confiscate an agreed compensation of 25% ofthe unit purchase price (the agreed sales price) under section 2 which the Buyer statesthat are fare due to the consequences of his default, and the Buyer agrees to waive all rightsof claim against the Seller.  If the Buyer at anytime is more that 63 days in default, theSeller is entitled to terminate without notification this agreement forthwith and return thepayments made by the Buyer under section 2 minus the agreed compensation and the Buyeragrees to waive all rights of claim against the Seller.”    Because it is obviously not fair when the construction is not started.We appreciate all your comments , complaints and actions toward ourprevious management that help shape our company to the rightdirection. Please consider to amend the contract and make thing righttogether.     Regards Administration   Golden View Development Co., Ltd247/11-12 Moo 10. 3rd Rd, Nongprue, Banglamung, Chonburi, 20150 Thailand Mobile 038-410-786Email : [email protected] Web : www.masterspratumnak.com

[KittenKong]

It should be quite clear for all of us that the way this e-mail is written is not typical "thai-style" of english,

It reads like Thai-style English to me.

Good luck to all who have lost money with their attempt to get it back, but I recommend that they only sign with a lawyer who will work for a percentage with no retainer.

I doubt that the developer has enough assets left to buy a can of Chang.

[desoe50]

Hi all,

another "customer" from Golden view here.

Thanks for all the updates here.

I think I have to consider my investment as a loss but keep hoping....

Wondering what the lawsuit is gonne bring but havent got high hopes.

But doing nothing thats something I can't "master"

Should have realised something first time I saw Marko...prototype of a criminal if you ask me...but at that time I was alreaduy in to deep.

[Scottiedog]

Scammedbygoldenview - I gave power of attorney to Ken Lawyer to represent me in this case and since that can't even get him to answer an email. Do you have a contact number for him are you in Pattaya has he broken both his hands? I 'm becoming increasingly frustrated with no info from this guy in fact with this whole pile of s@£t!!!!

Scott

[georgegeorgia]

I have empathy for you..BUT..you have been WARNED and warned again countless times by posters on here..its not the first time its happened !

Im sure mist would agree...its obvious your gulliable.

I dont wish to be rude to you but I dont feel sorry for you...its your own fault for being greedy and thats what you were.

,and gulliable too and rushed into what you thought was too good to be true.

Greed leads to downfall...you thought you were getting a bargain and going to make a lot of money buying off the plan and no doubt the Salesman told you better get in now because when their built they will double in price !

Well I tell you what if i was the salesman I would of told you the same thing!

Im sorry but you need to think...think first and dont rush in.

Its your fault.

Hopefully you will learn a valuable lesson in thinking first before rushing in and not believing everything someone (salesmen) tells you.

Edited February 5, 2015 by georgegeorgia