China offers huge sums

[wabothai]

After years when the unfortunate results are known, all the players are long gone.

[Tatsujin]

China also offering their own "democratic" voting system that they have imposed in HK.

Everyone can vote but only for the candidates vetted and proposed by China.

Coming soon to Thailand.

Isn't that what we've essentially had here in Thailand for decades, with the "2 party" system of elites (from both sides)?

[LawrenceChee]

I don't usually quote Wikipedia, but here is a whopper of a related comment that is directly on-topic: "On 23 July 2011, two high-speed trains travelling on the Yongtaiwen railway line collided on a viaduct in the suburbs of Wenzhou, Zhejiang province, China. The two trains derailed each other, and four cars fell off the viaduct. 40 people were killed, at least 192 were injured, 12 of which were severe injuries. Officials responded to the accident by hastily concluding rescue operations and ordering the burial of the derailed cars. These actions elicited strong criticism from Chinese media and online communities. In response, the government issued directives to restrict media coverage, which was met with limited compliance, even on state-owned networks."

Any rail accident or aviation is seen as personal human tragedy no matter where this happens

It has happen in China and not taking anything away ...millions travel on the rail daily and there is no accidents mate

Every accident is an opportunity to do better ...

I would be more afraid if there is a railway management out there that promises 0 accidents

Premier Li didn't promise that ...a high quality product is still depending on many factors for a consistent performance

Edited December 21, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[lil fluffy clouds]

Beware Chinese bearing gifts. (Apologies)

Beware of Chinese gift ball bearings. Happy Chinese manufactured Christmas!

On a side note: I spoke with an Indonesian fellow who scored a gig trying to get commissions for bringing rosewood in to China. The Chinese company wants him to find as much rosewood as possible, and their target is central Shan State in NW Burma (perhaps it's no coincidence, in this scenario, that area is essentially controlled by a Chinese private army). Rosewood has been a highly protected tree species since 2009. The Chinese furniture company knows that, but smuggling the wood at any cost is their priority - mainly because it's highly prized by millions of now-rich Chinese.

It relates to the problems of the major rivers which flow on either side of Thailand. Both, particularly the Mekong, are getting many giant dams built on them by the Chinese. Burma, to its credit, officially protested one of the dams on its side. Thailand doesn't have the cojones (balls) to speak up on that issue. China is not a signatory of the Mekong River Commission, even though it is damming the river more than the other little countries combined. So China doesn't have to adhere to any of the little countries wishes.

What I'm saying is: China is all about money and citification wherever it can. Thailand is a great ally in China's plan. Nearly all Thai politicians and essentially all it's top business people are Chinese-Thai (Shinawatres included), so Thailand can't help but march gleefully right behind, praising China's mass citification policies.

China has shown how it wants to control as much real estate as possible: in Tibet, Taiwan, Paracels, Spratlys, Scarborough Shoal, Japanese islands, parts of India .....the beat goes on. Thailand are the pom pom girls at a Chinese Pep Rally.

Will the rail way also speed the trafficking of endangered animals? You be the judge.

Are there any animals left in Thailand to be endangered?

[boomerangutang]

Beware Chinese bearing gifts. (Apologies)

Beware of Chinese gift ball bearings. Happy Chinese manufactured Christmas!

On a side note: I spoke with an Indonesian fellow who scored a gig trying to get commissions for bringing rosewood in to China. The Chinese company wants him to find as much rosewood as possible, and their target is central Shan State in NW Burma (perhaps it's no coincidence, in this scenario, that area is essentially controlled by a Chinese private army). Rosewood has been a highly protected tree species since 2009. The Chinese furniture company knows that, but smuggling the wood at any cost is their priority - mainly because it's highly prized by millions of now-rich Chinese.

It relates to the problems of the major rivers which flow on either side of Thailand. Both, particularly the Mekong, are getting many giant dams built on them by the Chinese. Burma, to its credit, officially protested one of the dams on its side. Thailand doesn't have the cojones (balls) to speak up on that issue. China is not a signatory of the Mekong River Commission, even though it is damming the river more than the other little countries combined. So China doesn't have to adhere to any of the little countries wishes.

What I'm saying is: China is all about money and citification wherever it can. Thailand is a great ally in China's plan. Nearly all Thai politicians and essentially all it's top business people are Chinese-Thai (Shinawatres included), so Thailand can't help but march gleefully right behind, praising China's mass citification policies.

China has shown how it wants to control as much real estate as possible: in Tibet, Taiwan, Paracels, Spratlys, Scarborough Shoal, Japanese islands, parts of India .....the beat goes on. Thailand are the pom pom girls at a Chinese Pep Rally.

Will the rail way also speed the trafficking of endangered animals? You be the judge.

Are there any animals left in Thailand to be endangered?

That's a good point. one-horned rhinos disappeared over 100 years ago. Chinese can't find pangolins in Thailand, so they go searching in Malaysia. Outside of a small Thai park, there are no wild tigers or elephants in Thailand. Dugongs are essentially gone from the coasts. if one is seen, villagers go charging out to kill it. No river dolphins in Thailand, as well as no bears, deer, leopards, or tapirs, If any of those animals were heard to appear (through the grapevine), Chinese merchants would quickly hire locals to go get them, dead or alive.

And that's not even mentioning reptiles or birds. Perhaps it's just a small side issue, but enabling millions of Chinese to rail down in to Thailand, is also enabling their proclivities - which are to scour the earth and seas - looking to ingest parts of thousands of animals which fit with their hocus pocus belief system - much of it pertaining to men getting erections. Ground tiger penis, anyone?

Edited December 21, 2014 by boomerangutang

[muffy]

• Look at what happened to Tibet , borrower beware .

[MaxLee]

made in China,...

FACE safety and satisfaction guaranteed...

[Tomtomtom69]

More Chinese goods flocked into THL

Whole world is using stuff made in China....May not be that bad if quality is controlled properly (ehm...with Thai standards?? )... LOL...

Thai fruits and veg are being replaced in markets by Chinese produced veggies made just outside THL but cheaper, quality is definitely not the priority... I don't buy in local wet market anymore as I used to throw away half of the fruits and some of the vegs, and same with Tesco and Big C.

The fruits and veggies look exactly like Thai veg but they are disgusting

Thai farmers can't compete with Chinese prices, they are already suffering from it

What kinds of fruit and veg do you buy? Clearly China can't compete on most kinds of tropical fruit because China simply doesn't have enough land located in tropical regions to grow such fruits, hence mangosteens/coconuts/papaya/durian etc. are almost always imported, usually from Thailand.

If you're in the market for things like apples and other temperate fruit, then you won't find any locally grown ones of course since Thailand is too hot and humid for such crops. However, you do have a choice between Chinese and Australian/New Zealand/US/French etc. apples, so check the packaging or labelling or if you go to a wet market, ask, if necessary to find out where the produce comes from. The sellers will know and happily tell you. Of course the Chinese stuff is usually cheaper, not least because it didn't have to travel as far as the stuff coming out of Australia/NZ/Nth America/Europe etc.

I agree that certain types of vegetables are often from China these days but you could easily avoid buying any Chinese fruit/veg if you check carefully.

And after having lived in China, I can attest to the large amount of foreign imported fruit/veg both at markets and supermarkets over there. I would even hazard a guess that the percentage of imported produce is higher than it is in Thailand.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[BSJ]

It is what it is! The deal will financially enslave the Thai people for 60 years....but if they could borrow the money from someone else wouldn't the same apply? With higher interest it would be a more costly exercise so, why not China with their soft loan.

And there has to be some profit in the venture. Even an ex-military man like the PM should be looking at the bottom line.

[Wilsonandson]

Wow, China has bailed out more countries than the IMF and world bank. Good or bad for China cause my mum said " Never a lender or borrower be". When the China bubble bursts will it be that countries who borrowed from China and cannot pay back that cause the burst. China has everything to sell but no one has any money to buy it cause their in debt to China.

[fobuff]

Whatever happended to free competition to obtain the best price... I would like to see the bribe budget on this one

[Wilsonandson]

Winston Churchill used to call China the yellow peril. With their teeth firmly sunk into Thailand it won't be long till Thai's are using Mandarin as their second language. The capital Bangkok could be soon called Bangjieng. I also ate noodles today but tomorrow it could be followed by sharkfin soup. I also asked my wife if she had any Chinese in her? She said she couldn't remember but reassured me that she was certain she had no african.

[LawrenceChee]

Whatever happended to free competition to obtain the best price... I would like to see the bribe budget on this one

Interesting these are developing countries in the Mekong

You are suggesting that we should have a worldwide bid and then say if Brazil won the bid ...they should be shipping these parts or send their engineers here to help Laos and Myanmar etc build it within budget and send in some soft loans as well ?

Queer proposition...but then again the west always have some funny ideas on fairness and think it triumphs over practicality at all times

These nations need the railway up fast after the 2015 ASEAN integration ...what's the timeline for the railway ...preferably completed in 2015

Irregardless of the source of the funding ...there is no disagreement this is a much needed infrastructure

Too bad ...the ABD were too slow and tied with too many conditions for anything concrete to be built

[Wilsonandson]

Rubber and Rice for Railways. This is a better topic title.

[surangw]

if they all have a grasp on each other hands , no one will get their pockets picked ( during the photo op)

however, some of them were seen counting their fingers and checking to see their watches were still attached after the pict was taken

Edited December 21, 2014 by surangw

[EyesWideOpen]

Wow, China has bailed out more countries than the IMF and world bank. Good or bad for China cause my mum said " Never a lender or borrower be". When the China bubble bursts will it be that countries who borrowed from China and cannot pay back that cause the burst. China has everything to sell but no one has any money to buy it cause their in debt to China.

Your Mum was quoting the Bard, Shakespeare, from Hamlet.

[rametindallas]

More Chinese goods flocked into THL

Whole world is using stuff made in China....May not be that bad if quality is controlled properly (ehm...with Thai standards?? )... LOL...

Thai fruits and veg are being replaced in markets by Chinese produced veggies made just outside THL but cheaper, quality is definitely not the priority... I don't buy in local wet market anymore as I used to throw away half of the fruits and some of the vegs, and same with Tesco and Big C.

The fruits and veggies look exactly like Thai veg but they are disgusting

Thai farmers can't compete with Chinese prices, they are already suffering from it

BS post of the year.

Yes, because there is no infrastructure to bring fresh, Chinese-grown produce into Bangkok. They would have to fly it in and that would negate any savings on, supposedly cheaper, Chinese produce.

http://www.business-in-asia.com/thailand/china_thailand_investment.html

[timewilltell]

Beware Chinese bearing gifts. (Apologies)

Beware of Chinese gift ball bearings. Happy Chinese manufactured Christmas!

On a side note: I spoke with an Indonesian fellow who scored a gig trying to get commissions for bringing rosewood in to China. The Chinese company wants him to find as much rosewood as possible, and their target is central Shan State in NW Burma (perhaps it's no coincidence, in this scenario, that area is essentially controlled by a Chinese private army). Rosewood has been a highly protected tree species since 2009. The Chinese furniture company knows that, but smuggling the wood at any cost is their priority - mainly because it's highly prized by millions of now-rich Chinese.

It relates to the problems of the major rivers which flow on either side of Thailand. Both, particularly the Mekong, are getting many giant dams built on them by the Chinese. Burma, to its credit, officially protested one of the dams on its side. Thailand doesn't have the cojones (balls) to speak up on that issue. China is not a signatory of the Mekong River Commission, even though it is damming the river more than the other little countries combined. So China doesn't have to adhere to any of the little countries wishes.

What I'm saying is: China is all about money and citification wherever it can. Thailand is a great ally in China's plan. Nearly all Thai politicians and essentially all it's top business people are Chinese-Thai (Shinawatres included), so Thailand can't help but march gleefully right behind, praising China's mass citification policies.

China has shown how it wants to control as much real estate as possible: in Tibet, Taiwan, Paracels, Spratlys, Scarborough Shoal, Japanese islands, parts of India .....the beat goes on. Thailand are the pom pom girls at a Chinese Pep Rally.

Will the rail way also speed the trafficking of endangered animals? You be the judge.

Are there any animals left in Thailand to be endangered?

Plenty - mostly money lenders, their henchmen and lawyers.

[rametindallas]

America and the European Union. Why can't THEY turn up in Thailand, and hand out gifts, and get a bit of the action ??

America and the European Union don't manufacture cheap copies of other people's proven products, including trains. Quality costs money and there is no way the West can offer as much for the price as China. Because China doesn't mind cutting corners on quality, have a cheap labor pool, and a state controlled economy (they just merged their two largest train manufacturers), they can offer so much more (with room for 'overhead') than the West. Also, this, in China's view, is a way for China to buy themselves deeply into Thailand's infrastructure, so they don't mind to sell for costs or even as a 'loss-leader'.

[noitom]

Thailand will soon be a puppet state of China. China is eying the abundance of food and Thailand's girls to satisfy the craving of their own disproportionate shortage of women. In fifty to a hundred years Thailand's girls will all be taken by Chinese men, remaining Thais will be farmers, cheap laborers, sex workers, delivery boys, and servants.

[ExPratt]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

I work in China most of the time, and ride the high speed rail. It is convenient, comfortable and affordable. The current rail project is suppose to be standard and a bit less of a challenge.

Part of my job in China is quality assurance. Let's hope Thailand hires the correct people to do the quality assurance.

You must have some frustrating battles with them. We did consultancy and Q/A on Wuhan -Guangzhou and X'ian - Zhengzou, as you say the ride is ok the problem they will have is durability. The amount of money spent on those high speeds means the life time Irc is 60 years before major renewals or component replacement is required. I think you'll find in some places they have speed restriction on now , less than 8 years after completion.

This track form is less of a challenge , but one challenge with this is building a new railway in with an existing Railway more or less using the existing alignment, China high speed is completely new alignment (Green field), which is more expensive but logistically easier. Better access to construction site and no need for temporary signaling and consideration to train schedules

[The Deerhunter]

Beware Chinese bearing gifts. (Apologies)

A Trojan railway?

Your words may prove to be prophetic.

A Trojan? Something that gives you a false sense of security, but at the end of the day, you are still being screwed

[Cake Monster]

China is making huge capital investments all around the world, for investing in the future of their country.

In African states for instance, they are investing in Mining, Oil , Etc, Thailand must ask the question " what do they really want of our Country as we dont have the Minerals Etc they want."

The thing that Thailand has is Agriculture, and in future years all the masses of Chinese will need food, and the Chinese Agri sector will never keep up with demand, so why not get more production of food from a close neighbouring country to secure the food source.

Whether that food source will remain in the hands of Thailand, and the Thai Government in years to come, - who knows ?

[LawrenceChee]

China is making huge capital investments all around the world, for investing in the future of their country.

In African states for instance, they are investing in Mining, Oil , Etc, Thailand must ask the question " what do they really want of our Country as we dont have the Minerals Etc they want."

The thing that Thailand has is Agriculture, and in future years all the masses of Chinese will need food, and the Chinese Agri sector will never keep up with demand, so why not get more production of food from a close neighbouring country to secure the food source.

Whether that food source will remain in the hands of Thailand, and the Thai Government in years to come, - who knows ?

That's governance at its best right ? Sourcing for the food basket for their people and logistically no other place makes more sense than ASEAN

They have almost everything which was the reason the Japanese wanted it for WWII and also after war efforts

Just too bad Japan like everyone else was flirting and not serious and like a butterfly was everywhere and eventually it amounted to not much although from an automobile end they have a mkt that would remain unchallenged for decades in Thailand

The Chinese have an eye for this region and like a long term husband wants solid deals & peaceful relationships and have brought in the "sin sot" in highway and railway construction at a scale never done before

I can imagine trainloads of chinese tourists doing an ASEAN loop on trains ...boarding thru kunming and heading straight down to angkor wat and to Laos for a Vien Viang River cruise and then streaming to Chiangmai for shopping and eating before heading home

Edited December 22, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[godden]

Winston Churchill used to call China the yellow peril. With their teeth firmly sunk into Thailand it won't be long till Thai's are using Mandarin as their second language. The capital Bangkok could be soon called Bangjieng. I also ate noodles today but tomorrow it could be followed by sharkfin soup. I also asked my wife if she had any Chinese in her? She said she couldn't remember but reassured me that she was certain she had no african.

I asked the wife if she had any English in her, she said no, i said would you like some.

[boomerangutang]

Look at what China is doing with all their new money, and thousands of new millionaires:

They're building giant concrete cities which people can't afford, and/or don't want to live in. They're buying endangered animals and their body parts, mostly for men who have flaccidity problems. Their preference for boy babies has skewed the ratio of males to females. Even if a Chinese man is lucky enough to have a chance at marrying a young woman, it's expensive. One natural resource which Thailand has an abundance of: bevies of beautiful young women. Message to Thai girls: forget about learning English in school - learn Mandarin and/or Cantonese, and hold out for a high price when Chinese men come knocking on your door.

Edited December 22, 2014 by boomerangutang

[LawrenceChee]

Look at what China is doing with all their new money, and thousands of new millionaires:

They're building giant concrete cities which people can't afford, and/or don't want to live in. They're buying endangered animals and their body parts, mostly for men who have flaccidity problems. Their preference for boy babies has skewed the ratio of males to females. Even if a Chinese man is lucky enough to have a chance at marrying a young woman, it's expensive. One natural resource which Thailand has an abundance of: bevies of beautiful young women. Message to Thai girls: forget about learning English in school - learn Mandarin and/or Cantonese, and hold out for a high price when Chinese men come knocking on your door.

The saving grace is the Chinese don't like dark skinned girls so the farangs are safe ...their supplies of woman who would listen to their bevy of stories at the bars would still be there

Well girls up north may be a different proposition ...they are fair skinned like the girls in Hanoi

Edited December 22, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[LawrenceChee]

Some campaigns going up in China on travel and cultural tips

Maybe we will have less map reading motorcycles stopping in the middle of the road ...well maybe

[Starre]

I think the Thais will like being a province of China, although they will tell themselves that they are independent.

I don't think you're far wrong.

What we are not told is what China expects in return.

No complaints action when damming the upper Mekong results in the lower Mekong drying up.

Easing of regulations to allow Chinese companies entry into Thailand, employing only Chinese staff, and out-competing Thai companies.

Removal of tariffs on Chinese imports.

99 year leases on swathes of arable land for Chines agri business to operate as an extension of the Chinese production effort.

Logging and mining concessions for Chinese companies to rape the land.

The General is doing a great job trying to straighten the country out, but as an interim PM, he should not be dabbling in very long term cross border agreements. Leave that to an elected and economically/diplomatically experienced professional. There should be no rush to sign up to anything with any country, especially China.

We will never know how much China has spent in gratuities to get this deal.

+1000 - Unfortunately the currently stock of buffoons in Canberra rushed off in a hurry to stitch up a free trade deal with China in order to shore up their falling political capital. The result, given the Chinese saw them coming from miles away, was a deal that effectively sells out our industry, labour and property in return for a few discounts on food and agriculture tariffs. So now the Chinese can buy Australian properties and entities no questions asked up to a billion dollars and staff them with Chinese labour. Meanwhile we still can't even own so much as grain of sand if we step foot in China. Hard bargains our guys drive. At least Thailand might get some project capital in return.

[jamiesilver]

Another silk road - goodbye Thailand - hello Chailand