Multi-country tourist visas stalled over security worries

[sjaak327]

I am actually wondering if usage figures have been communicated.

The list of around 35 nationalities that could apply contains many countries that are already visa exempt.

I guess it might be worthwhile for people that plan on staying in Thailand for over 30 days on the initial stint, then travel to Cambodia on the same visa. It won't save you anything as you need to pay the normal tourist visa fee at the Thai embassy (around 1000 baht) and then still need to pay 30 USD on the Cambodian side as well (the fee went up this year from 20 USD previously). But at least you won't have to obtain the visa on arrival at the Cambodian border, even though that process is usually pretty quick and easy.

But for most people, traveling to Thailand visa exempt for 30 days and then travel to Cambodia would mean that only the Cambodian visa on arrival is needed, which would be 30 USD.

For my typical travel habits, getting the single visa would mean double costs, so would not consider it.

In any case, the way it is currently setup for the combined Thailand / Cambodia single visa, both countries would still receive their current visa fees, so no need to worry about loss of income.

Edited December 21, 2014 by sjaak327

[noitom]

The Thais are great at "announcing" these things and dropping the ball on implementation. The Thais prove themselves over and over to be inept buffoons.

[chainarong]

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Personally I think ASEAN is a waste of time, it won't pass the initial stress test. Besides, some countries will fair better than others.

Thailand for example has a lot to lose, since most employers want hard-working English-speaking employees, without attitude, and a strong work ethic, something which is apparently lacking in the country. Many I have spoken to want people from the Philippines, as they tick all the boxes.

The Philippine crowd will take over just like the maids have in HK.

[Colabamumbai]

I think that they are worried of loosing Visa fee money to other countries and security worries is BS.

I think that you are correct.

[Colabamumbai]

I think that they are worried of loosing Visa fee money to other countries and security worries is BS.

I think that you are correct.

[Benmart]

Oh! Look over there, I see Thaksin...no, he's over there, oh oh....now he's over there, no he's not....he's over there.

Not the issue here.

[wilcopops]

"Security"? - bah! humbug!

[jamiesilver]

BS they are stalling so that they can take what is left on the table for high season. Thailand doesnt want a multi visa - it wants it all for itself.

[Tomtomtom69]

+1

I agree with what you say, but I stress "ASEAN member states certainly do NOT want to give up their sovereignty or their labor markets to anyone, especially not other member states."

Especially giving up sovereignty. Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Singapore won't want to give up even a small bit of sovereignty. Even Thailand, Thailand doesn't want to give up any sovereignty.

You almost got that right but I disagree somewhat about Laos.

Laos has been selling off/concessioning off their land to the highest bidders for years. As far as I know, according to a Vietnamese friend of mine Laos gave away a huge chunk of land to Vietnam back in the 1970s or so when the two started their very close political ties around the time of the communist takeover of Laos and the victorious Vietcong forces took control of the whole Vietnam and unified it. I don't know the details exactly, but in the north east of Laos you'll see a large chunk of land "missing", which is now part of Nghe An province in north central Vietnam. Even the names of many of the cities such as "muong" etc. mimic their original Lao names.

More recently casino concessions given to the Chinese such as the one at Boten, just across from China, which is now a ghost town after the Laotian or Chinese authorities shut down the place due to rampant criminal activity (originally it was suggested the Chinese pressured Laos to shut it down but more recent reports suggest the Laotians shut it down and justified it to the Chinese - not sure who's reporting is more accurate). However, the Chinese inhabitants such as the lone elderly car repairer from Lijiang and the younger lone China mobile employee a little further down the road are still there, lonely and with nothing to do but they are sitting on their 99-year land concessions granted to them under the original agreement, which still has more than 90 years to go I think.

A similar concession is very much alive on the Thai border in the Golden Triangle region just outside the Lao town of Tonpheung and opposite Thailand's Chiang Saen. It's called Kings Romans, and is very much in a state of expansion with more Chinese people living there than Lao and Chinese virtually the only language spoken. Therefore Lao villagers can't communicate with the people now living and working in this Chinese transplant on Lao soil.

Other mining, forestry and rubber plantation concessions to foreign companies further suggest that Laos only cares about getting money and not so much about their sovereignty except of course when it comes to a foreign power trying to grab back some land it believes owed to it, such as Thailand did back in 1989 resulting in a short border war but times have changed since then.

I'd say Cambodia and Thailand are far more concerned about their territorial sovereignty. Consider the examples of the temple conflict between the two nations, which resulted in major skirmishes back in 2011 over the Khao Phra Wiharn or Preah Vihear temple along the Thai-Cambodian border. While the temple was awarded to Cambodia back in 1962 due to a decision made by the International Court of Justice (or whatever the name of the court was), the surrounding 4.5 sq km of land was not defined. The Thais feverishly fought over this land surrounding the temple culminating in the 2011 skirmishes, but of course the Khmers are not going to give that land up so easily thus the case again went to the international courts. I believe no final decision has been made, but this case and another smaller skirmish over another border area in the same area has proven that both sides are very nationalistic and will fight over even the smallest, most useless piece of land.

Back in 2003 shortly before my first trip to Cambodia when I visited Angkor Wat, a remark by a Thai actress claiming that Angkor Wat should be returned to Thailand caused a major outpouring of anti-Thai sentiment, especially in Phnom Penh, resulting in the vandalization of the Thai Embassy and other Thai owned/operated businesses. This led to a major downgrading of relations between the two countries and Thais/Cambodians were not permitted to cross their common land borders for a couple of weeks. Foreign nationals however were OK to cross in the meantime.

Vietnam of course continues to be concerned about Chinese claims to it's Spratly and Paracel islands in what they calls the "East Sea" but what the Thais, the western world and of course China calls the "South China Sea". China already occupies the Hoang Sa archipelago (as Vietnam calls it) and has occupied it since 1974 when they took over control, by force, from Vietnam.

The ongoing separatist movement in southern Thailand is another example of Thailand holding onto it's sovereignty at all costs. Although it seems that the separatists and many of the Malay Muslims in that border region of Thailand do not identify with Thailand and would prefer not to be part of Thailand anymore, their wishes have fallen on deaf ears and thus a clandestine insurgency, which is said to be as if Kabul were in Thailand is ongoing in the southernmost provinces with almost daily shootings, be-headings, bombings and other terrorist attacks on teachers, policemen, the army and other symbols of the Thai state.

Myanmar also made a big fuss about it's sovereignty being "invaded" when the natural phenomenon of some of it's river bank along the Moei river, which separates it from Thailand between Myawady and Thailand's Mae Sot was washed over to the Thai side. It's response? Close the bridge separating the two countries for like a year! This happened back in 2011 before the transition to power to a new civilian government. What a childish response, not to mention the huge impact on trade between the two countries along what is the most important overland corridor for trade and nowadays tourism too between the two countries, which Myanmar obviously didn't give a crap about back then, but the current administration almost certainly would be concerned. Even so, it indicates very much that Myanmar is equally concerned about it's territorial integrity, even to the point of getting silly about the tiniest, most useless sand banks in a dirty, polluted river.

Another example of Myanmar nationalism occurred with the MOU on a Chinese backed hydropower plant project and a think also a nickel mine in the country's northern Kachin State I believe being cancelled and not renewed, due to fears of losing sovereignty to China. I also remember reading an article on elevenmyanmar.com, the Myanmar news portal that is supported by The Nation last year I think it was about Chinese language signs being taken down in Mandalay, since they did not contain either English or Burmese alongside them. Apparently only English and Burmese signs are permitted to be displayed in Myanmar. Even this act by Chinese immigrants (possibly illegals) got the administration nervous and thus the signs were forcibly removed. Interestingly, having travelled along the Mandalay to Muse road to the Chinese border, the only place where I remember seeing any Chinese language signs apart from at Chinese restaurants (alongside Burmese and English) was in Muse next to the Chinese border, but even there, there weren't that many Chinese signs and they were always accompanied by larger Burmese and/or English signs. I found that interesting because in northern Laos everything is in Chinese in places. But now I know why Myanmar is different.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[maidee]

hahaha, asean is almost there

and guess who is most ill prepared ?