Diazepam - should I just ignore the prescription and avoid it ?

[sexy man]

codeine products are illegal in thailand but may be available from a hospitalif prescribed by thier dr

[Sheryl]

Several have asked me why I would go to a doctor with such poor English skills - its simple. When you walk into Pattaya Memorial and ask to see a doctor, they assign one to you. This is exactly how I was treated in Bumrungrad when I hurt my back and I've never sought out a 'permanent' doctor in Thailand - my assumption was that the majority were trained overseas and had reasonable English, at least in towns with a high percentage of Farang residents : clearly that was a naive assumption.

Yes, one must take time and do some research to find a good doctor/doctor who speaks English well (often but not always go together...the best specialists have usually friend abroad and thus are fluent)

They are far fewer in Pattaya than in Bkk to put it mildly. From a Thai medical perspective, Pattaya is a backwater ..not even a provincial capital and not near any major teaching/reasearch hospitals.

There are a few notable exceptions, but in most cases for anything major or very specialized it is necessary to go to Bangkok ...having first taken the time to pre-select a doctor...all the major hospitals give CVs on their website, or you can do a search if this forum or post her for specific rec. Never let staff at Bumrungrad et. al assign you a doctor --- that is the worst way to go as they will, naturally, direct you towards whomever is least busy and that is often for a good reason. Eeven if it was a sudden unexpected thing and urgent trip, if you are at all able stop i nthe lobby and avail of the free internet to look up who is on duty that day and examine CVs.

[atyclb]

Prednisolone / oral Steroids

you can find credible papers/ articles on their adjuvant use in upper respiratory conditions. nasal steroids are fairly commonly used. the op didnt specify if po or nasal

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/715421

the addition of intranasal or oral steroids (prednisone) may reduce symptoms.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/sinus_infection/page9_em.htm

The way it works is if there supporting data from an abstract, paper, or study it is not considered unacceptable practice. We doubt the op was given high dose oral steroids as to knock out the adrenal axis nor long term steroids.

I will refrain from comment on the other medications since the experts have already commented.

Edited December 25, 2014 by atyclb

[inbangkok]

I must say the hysteria around diazepam on this thread has been quite amusing and unwarranted. As with any drug in its class, there is a potential for abuse. However, the vast majority of people who are ever prescribed this drug never become dependent on it or abuse it.

[bill1369]

Re: The benzo discussion.

About 10 or 12 years ago I went to my Dr in US - he was in his mid-60s, about a decade older than I. I told him I was falling off to sleep OK but always awoke after about 2-hours sleep and then had difficulty going back to sleep. He told me he had developed his own sleep problems because he laid in bed thinking of his patients. He prescribed me 1mg Lorazepam which is what the Dr said he had begun taking nightly. I began taking 1 tablet a night and slept like a baby.

When I arrived in Thailand about 6-years ago, I began seeing an Thai endocrinologist at Bumrungard. After I'd finished the Lorazepam I brought from US with me,I asked her for a new Rx. She refused; saying it was too addictive and gave me Trazadone 50mg. Trazadone was not as good inducing sleep as Lorazepam but was semi-OK. About a year ago, I found a US Dr practicing at another BKK hospital. He has had no problem in prescribing the Lorazepam 1mg. Now I usually take the Trazadone but once or so a week it doesn't put me to sleep so,after an hour of tossing & turning, I'll pop a Lorazepam. (Maybe not the best combo but I cannot find anything on internet to definitely say it's a no no.)

I have at times thought about only taking the Lorazepam nightly but don't because of the possible physical addiction consequences - however, they're all psychologically addictive. If I crawl into bed forgetting to pop a sleeper all I do is think I'll never sleep unless I get up and take a pill, which I always end up doing.

But - not more than 2 weeks ago, I saw a NY Times article of a just released long-term study on the benzos and their long term affect when used as sleepers. The researchers found that persons taking a benzo sleeper for 6 to 8 years had a statistically significant higher risk of developing Alzheimer's. So now I think it best to ignore them altogether; perhaps talking to my endocrinologist about increasing Trazadone to a 100mg tablet.

Edited December 25, 2014 by bill1369

[Harveyg]

Is it really my place to question the doctors on the medication they prescribe ?

This is laughable except I know you're completely serious.

Without launching into how doctors' education and present knowledge is, um, 'guided', by the pharmaceutical industries worldwide, I would suggest some internet searches.

I do not claim expertise, but personally, I would check my diet for processed foods, obvious or hidden sources of sugar, and cut them out to strengthen my immune system. Furthermore I would juice, not blend, green leaf vegetables 1-2 liters/day. Profuse Info on net...

[eXplosief]

I am no doctor so won't try to give any advice on the medicine. But what i have always told anyone with similar complaints is to start with cleaning the A/C. If you hire someone to do it make sure they do a good job.

[harrry]

Re: The benzo discussion.

About 10 or 12 years ago I went to my Dr in US - he was in his mid-60s, about a decade older than I. I told him I was falling off to sleep OK but always awoke after about 2-hours sleep and then had difficulty going back to sleep. He told me he had developed his own sleep problems because he laid in bed thinking of his patients. He prescribed me 1mg Lorazepam which is what the Dr said he had begun taking nightly. I began taking 1 tablet a night and slept like a baby.

When I arrived in Thailand about 6-years ago, I began seeing an Thai endocrinologist at Bumrungard. After I'd finished the Lorazepam I brought from US with me,I asked her for a new Rx. She refused; saying it was too addictive and gave me Trazadone 50mg. Trazadone was not as good inducing sleep as Lorazepam but was semi-OK. About a year ago, I found a US Dr practicing at another BKK hospital. He has had no problem in prescribing the Lorazepam 1mg. Now I usually take the Trazadone but once or so a week it doesn't put me to sleep so,after an hour of tossing & turning, I'll pop a Lorazepam. (Maybe not the best combo but I cannot find anything on internet to definitely say it's a no no.)

I have at times thought about only taking the Lorazepam nightly but don't because of the possible physical addiction consequences - however, they're all psychologically addictive. If I crawl into bed forgetting to pop a sleeper all I do is think I'll never sleep unless I get up and take a pill, which I always end up doing.

But - not more than 2 weeks ago, I saw a NY Times article of a just released long-term study on the benzos and their long term affect when used as sleepers. The researchers found that persons taking a benzo sleeper for 6 to 8 years had a statistically significant higher risk of developing Alzheimer's. So now I think it best to ignore them altogether; perhaps talking to my endocrinologist about increasing Trazadone to a 100mg tablet.

Admit it you just keep forgetting to take them.

I think long and short term use may be a different issue. In fact I believe after a few weeks they actually do not work well at all as well as the side effects.

[ageless1]

I have developed claustrophobia as I got older and couldn't fly as a result. Went to the doctor and he prescribed a benzodiazepine called Oxazepam, marketed as Muralex. From what I understand, the benzos are less likely to be abused than the diazepams (don't ask me why)Have taken these for 10 years now. But I have maintained very strict control over my usage, as the doctor told me you can build a tolerance to them. If that were to happen to me I wouldn't be able to fly which would be a big problem. So what that means is that unless I'm going to fly or have an MRI for example, they remain in my drawer and I don't touch them for sometimes months.I think some people just have addictive personalities and become addicted to anything they take. If you're one of these personalities, I wouldn't touch the valium, no way.I take up to 90mg before boarding a flight. I fly to Brisbane two or three times a year which is a 9.5hr flight. The sleep is wonderful from these tiny little tablets. I click my seat buckle in and am fast asleep before the flight even takes off. The flight attendant shakes me awake to eat, when finished my meal I'm straight back to sleep and only wake up when the plane bumps down on the tarmac at Brisbane....No side effects at all except that they wipe your (short term) memory for the time while you're on them. You mentioned you're a drinker, one thing to remember is that this drug will accentuate the effects of alcohol.....I can tell you that from first hand experience, I've had some pretty wild nights out in Pattaya after flying in from Brisbane still heavily sedated, sleep all the way down from the airport but awake enough to start on the Jack when I get here. My doctor hates it when I tell him that!But, if it's sleep you're after, these things will calm you down and do the trick. Just don't make a habit out of it!

[ageless1]

Be careful of who's advice you take as you're likely to get frankly incorrect advice from people like Wasa who obviously have no medical training and very little knowledge. If he really wanted to cure his claustrophobia he'd use Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and not just treat the symptoms with dangerously high doses of benzos. Maybe one of these trips he will quietly stop breathing? Maybe he's more addicted than he thinks?

The treatment of any condition should focus on treating the cause. If it is an incurable condition, symptomatic treatment can take precedence. If treatment of the cause will take time, temporary symptomatic treatment can be added to the primary treatment of the cause.

You need to find a doctor you can communicate with. They need to be a person who can explain what is going on and what your treatment options are. Ultimately it should be you who decides which treatment options you try and your decision should be an informed one

No one has more of a vested interest in your health.... Or illness..... Than you yourself ! Don't hand the decision making power to anyone unless you are positive they have your best interests at heart

[Sheryl]

I must say the hysteria around diazepam on this thread has been quite amusing and unwarranted. As with any drug in its class, there is a potential for abuse. However, the vast majority of people who are ever prescribed this drug never become dependent on it or abuse it.

Yes but the issue here was not whether someone in need of a benzo/with a condition for which benzo would normally be indicated, should worry about addiction. The issue is whether its prescription made any sense in this particular case. And it absolutely did not.

The OP was not suffering from anciety, muscke tension or primary insomnia. He has a throat/sinus infection. The post-nasal trip is cuasing an irritating cough when he lies flat that disturbs his sleep. treatment of the underlying cause + short term cough suppressants (which benzos are nto) is the answer to that. Diazepam script in this context makes zero sense, as did some of the other things given.

[ageless1]

You're absolutely right Sheryl, it was a wholly inappropriate treatment option for a condition completely curable with other forms of treatment

[inbangkok]

I must say the hysteria around diazepam on this thread has been quite amusing and unwarranted. As with any drug in its class, there is a potential for abuse. However, the vast majority of people who are ever prescribed this drug never become dependent on it or abuse it.

Yes but the issue here was not whether someone in need of a benzo/with a condition for which benzo would normally be indicated, should worry about addiction. The issue is whether its prescription made any sense in this particular case. And it absolutely did not.

The OP was not suffering from anciety, muscke tension or primary insomnia. He has a throat/sinus infection. The post-nasal trip is cuasing an irritating cough when he lies flat that disturbs his sleep. treatment of the underlying cause + short term cough suppressants (which benzos are nto) is the answer to that. Diazepam script in this context makes zero sense, as did some of the other things given.

You are certainly correct! That was the original issue the OP posted about. However, I assume you have read the following comments and responses that solely speak of the supposed dangers of this drug the devil must have personally produced. That is what my comment is referring too. Reading the comments here, I would think it was black tar heroin being discussed....... Not Diazepam.

On a side not.... I don't know about Dr's here in Thailand, but in the USA, Dr's can prescribe drugs for off label use pretty much whenever they see fit. If it is the same here in Thailand.... It is possible this Dr has an explanation for prescribing it that we don't know about.

Edited December 25, 2014 by inbangkok

[atyclb]

Be careful of who's advice you take as you're likely to get frankly incorrect advice from people like Wasa who obviously have no medical training and very little knowledge. If he really wanted to cure his claustrophobia he'd use Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and not just treat the symptoms with dangerously high doses of benzos. Maybe one of these trips he will quietly stop breathing? Maybe he's more addicted than he thinks?

The treatment of any condition should focus on treating the cause. If it is an incurable condition, symptomatic treatment can take precedence. If treatment of the cause will take time, temporary symptomatic treatment can be added to the primary treatment of the cause.

You need to find a doctor you can communicate with. They need to be a person who can explain what is going on and what your treatment options are. Ultimately it should be you who decides which treatment options you try and your decision should be an informed one

No one has more of a vested interest in your health.... Or illness..... Than you yourself ! Don't hand the decision making power to anyone unless you are positive they have your best interests at heart

Valid points.

Do you / does anyone not think a sound idea for those posting medical information is to include their health care / medical background experience, training, educations, specific licenses held currently or past ?

[atyclb]

I must say the hysteria around diazepam on this thread has been quite amusing and unwarranted. As with any drug in its class, there is a potential for abuse. However, the vast majority of people who are ever prescribed this drug never become dependent on it or abuse it.

Yes but the issue here was not whether someone in need of a benzo/with a condition for which benzo would normally be indicated, should worry about addiction. The issue is whether its prescription made any sense in this particular case. And it absolutely did not.

The OP was not suffering from anciety, muscke tension or primary insomnia. He has a throat/sinus infection. The post-nasal trip is cuasing an irritating cough when he lies flat that disturbs his sleep. treatment of the underlying cause + short term cough suppressants (which benzos are nto) is the answer to that. Diazepam script in this context makes zero sense, as did some of the other things given.

You are certainly correct! That was the original issue the OP posted about. However, I assume you have read the following comments and responses that solely speak of the supposed dangers of this drug the devil must have personally produced. That is what my comment is referring too. Reading the comments here, I would think it was black tar heroin being discussed....... Not Diazepam.

On a side not.... I don't know about Dr's here in Thailand, but in the USA, Dr's can prescribe drugs for off label use pretty much whenever they see fit. If it is the same here in Thailand.... It is possible this Dr has an explanation for prescribing it that we don't know about.

would be interesting and welcome to ascertain the rationale for it absolutely.

[ageless1]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

[atyclb]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

[inbangkok]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

Edited December 26, 2014 by inbangkok

[monk213]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Trial and error my friend, also ever since I got mixed up in all kinds of things I always made a point to heavily research what I was putting into my body. You would be surprised at how many doctors do not even fully understand the dangers of benzos and withdrawals, or they simply do not care that much. I know more about how substances interact with the human body on a chemical and biological basis than a few doctors put it that way.

I remember for my 19 birthday my mother bought me a factual book on Ecstasy, and I can discuss with you the ins and out of exactly how it manages to release huge quantities of serotonin on a molecular basis. On a ratio standpoint MDMA is less harmful than horse riding, that's a fact, benzos on the other hand are really quite dangerous for multiple reasons. Anybody who is curious to learn more about benzos check out the works of Dr Ashton as I mentioned previously, her work is second to none in my honest opinion, very extensive research on people who use and or abuse. and the drugs themselves.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Edited December 26, 2014 by monk213

[inbangkok]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Trial and error my friend, also ever since I got mixed up in all kinds of things I always made a point to heavily research what I was putting into my body. You would be surprised at how many doctors do not even fully understand the dangers of benzos and withdrawals, or they simply do not care that much. I know more about how substances interact with the human body on a chemical and biological basis than a few doctors put it that way.

I remember for my 19 birthday my mother bought me a factual book on Ecstasy, and I can discuss with you the ins and out of exactly how it manages to release huge quantities of serotonin on a molecular basis. On a ratio standpoint MDMA is less harmful than horse riding, that's a fact, benzos on the other hand are really quite dangerous for multiple reasons. Anybody who is curious to learn more about benzos check out the works of Dr Ashton as I mentioned previously, her work is second to none in my honest opinion, very extensive research on people who use and or abuse. and the drugs themselves.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

"Mixed up in all kinds of things"? So you are a recreational drug user? Or used to be?

I got news for you...... Every drug user thinks they are an expert in the subject.

MDMA safer than horse back riding? Buddy.... I don't think you know what the work "fact" actually means.

[atyclb]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

[inbangkok]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

Let me try again.... I think Dr's hate it when the patients turn to Google and think they know how to treat themselves better than the Dr does.

[atyclb]

Let me try again.... I think Dr's hate it when the patients turn to Google and think they know how to treat themselves better than the Dr does.

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

some may dislike (hate) it as you say but science teaches to maintain an open mind. listen, and discuss and learn, learn from each other as i am sure a mutual learning takes place as is the nature of humanity, hopefully.

God bless.

sorry for bold type but system would not let me post so many quotes

[atyclb]

I must say the hysteria around diazepam on this thread has been quite amusing and unwarranted. As with any drug in its class, there is a potential for abuse. However, the vast majority of people who are ever prescribed this drug never become dependent on it or abuse it.

Interesting point. Try to find statistics on benzo (valium class drugs) dependance and post here. I wonder how the stats compare with alcohol dependance / addiction.

[WitawatWatawit]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

Let me try again.... I think Dr's hate it when the patients turn to Google and think they know how to treat themselves better than the Dr does.

And when your doctors (plural) are clearly letting you down by their ignorance? Please tell who you then turn to. One of the big shitfights with benzos is that doctors worldwide are either not educated or refuse to be educated about the dependency and w/d issues. They prefer to believe big pharma. I went through benzo w/d completely BY MYSELF because the local quacks refused to believe that I was suffering. Month after month of the most unbelievable "torture", and all I had to help me get through was the internet and the advice of others who were similarly suffering. I survived (and I mean that because there were days when I didn't want to go on), and two years later, if anyone wants MY help in benzo w/d instead of a doctor, I will give it - with great precaution, naturally. When a doctor doesn't know any better, then you only have yourself to rely on, as I proved.

[inbangkok]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

Let me try again.... I think Dr's hate it when the patients turn to Google and think they know how to treat themselves better than the Dr does.

And when your doctors (plural) are clearly letting you down by their ignorance? Please tell who you then turn to. One of the big shitfights with benzos is that doctors worldwide are either not educated or refuse to be educated about the dependency and w/d issues. They prefer to believe big pharma. I went through benzo w/d completely BY MYSELF because the local quacks refused to believe that I was suffering. Month after month of the most unbelievable "torture", and all I had to help me get through was the internet and the advice of others who were similarly suffering. I survived (and I mean that because there were days when I didn't want to go on), and two years later, if anyone wants MY help in benzo w/d instead of a doctor, I will give it - with great precaution, naturally. When a doctor doesn't know any better, then you only have yourself to rely on, as I proved.

There is no scientific evidence that physical withdrawals of benzos last for months when taken at normal dosage and as prescribed. That may have been why Dr's were not taking you seriously. Were you medicating yourself or not using them sparingly or as directed? If I am wrong, please provide me the info and I will look into it. Actual scientific info.... Not your personal antidotes.

Edited December 27, 2014 by inbangkok

[atyclb]

If using the topic to relay personal experience or anecdotes but not presume expertise or the right to advise others based on that alone then any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it was found

If using the forum to give direct medical advice then the writer's credentials or the source of their evidence based information would definitely give more weight to their opinion

the assumption that any reader should have the sense to leave the information where it is is quite a reaching assumption and if you believe your statement you would not have posted the response to "wasa" about high dose benzo's.

some posters content seems to suggest they have some medical background although nowadays the internet can yield a lot of information and some could present it in a way similar to that of health care practitioners.

this is why it would be quite reasonable to know what qualifications and licensure such posters hold.

there can also be a disclaimer saying the information is not advice but sharing of knowledge

Dr.s absolutely hate Google for this very reason. Everyone seems to think they know everything now after a 2 minute web search and consulting wikipedia. I will admit, I do a lot of research regarding all the meds and healthcare I consume.....but I am no Dr. If I meet a Dr and I don't think I am getting good treatment, I will opt to see another one for another opinion. It is not a good idea to take your own treatment into your own hands no matter how good your research skills may be. And I have to say, I am a bit conflicted about someone seeing a Dr and receiving medications, and then visiting a web board with people telling him "the Dr. is wrong" and then the patient decides not to take the meds. In this instance it is probably not a big deal, but the idea of allowing a public weboard to over-ride your Dr.s decisions could be dangerous in certain situation. I personaly think the more practical move would have been consulting another Dr if you feel you got the wrong meds or bad treatment with the first one (at least thats what I would have done).

I cant say doctors hate google / internet because it is also a valuable ally in looking up things quickly and in telemedicine. learning and educating oneself is virtually never a bad thing.

the bone of contention is more firmly placed with mass media drug marketing aimed at the general public that compels many into believing they need drug a, b, or c.

Interesting in that the medical information posters are not jumping out of the woodwork to share their backgrounds, education, training and licensure.

Let me try again.... I think Dr's hate it when the patients turn to Google and think they know how to treat themselves better than the Dr does.

And when your doctors (plural) are clearly letting you down by their ignorance? Please tell who you then turn to. One of the big shitfights with benzos is that doctors worldwide are either not educated or refuse to be educated about the dependency and w/d issues. They prefer to believe big pharma. I went through benzo w/d completely BY MYSELF because the local quacks refused to believe that I was suffering. Month after month of the most unbelievable "torture", and all I had to help me get through was the internet and the advice of others who were similarly suffering. I survived (and I mean that because there were days when I didn't want to go on), and two years later, if anyone wants MY help in benzo w/d instead of a doctor, I will give it - with great precaution, naturally. When a doctor doesn't know any better, then you only have yourself to rely on, as I proved.

There is no scientific evidence that physical withdrawals of benzos last for months when taken at normal dosage and as prescribed. That may have been why Dr's were not taking you seriously. Were you medicating yourself or not using them sparingly or as directed? If I am wrong, please provide me the info and I will look into it. Actual scientific info.... Not your personal antidotes.

the dangers of benzos are widespread and well known in the medical community but we live in an imperfect world. the vast majority of practitioners err on the side of caution but some dont. some may have practices built on being known to readily prescribe controlled substances.

[Lumbini]

Almost hard to believe you were prescribed Valium for this . Perhaps give the Dr's name so we all can get the heads up and possibly this Dr will get a kind wake up call ?

Thanks for your post

Edited December 27, 2014 by Lumbini

[WitawatWatawit]

QUOTE: There is no scientific evidence that physical withdrawals of benzos last for months when taken at normal dosage and as prescribed.

The Coleman Institute good enough for you? If not, it won't be hard to find other sources, as there is a growing amount of evidence being posted, should you care to look.

http://www.thecolemaninstitute.com/rapid-benzodiazepine-detoxification-faq

PS: Please explain "normal dosage and as prescribed". If you can. And then, perhaps, you might want to consider what is a "normal" patient and a "normal" doctor.

[inbangkok]

QUOTE: There is no scientific evidence that physical withdrawals of benzos last for months when taken at normal dosage and as prescribed.

The Coleman Institute good enough for you? If not, it won't be hard to find other sources, as there is a growing amount of evidence being posted, should you care to look.

http://www.thecolemaninstitute.com/rapid-benzodiazepine-detoxification-faq

PS: Please explain "normal dosage and as prescribed". If you can. And then, perhaps, you might want to consider what is a "normal" patient and a "normal" doctor.

Considering they are trying to sell detox programs, I remain skeptical. I have actually read this very link you posted in the past.

Well, a normal Dr would be someone who knows the dangers of a drug and prescribe them appropriately I suppose. But as the poster above mentioned, Dr's make mistakes, maybe at times don't care.... And possibly unaware.

A normal patient..... I guess I don't know that one. At least someone who knows the difference between use and abuse. But if Benzos were actually as dangerous as you claim, the FDA would have pulled them by now. And you can't claim that the pharmaceutical industry is in control all of the time. The FDA does pull drugs from the market when the risk outweighs the benefit.

Edited December 27, 2014 by inbangkok