Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[Eirene]

Check out the colour of the iron ore mines in Australia.

[catsanddogs]

catsanddogs...the Ware brothers left the island together.

Edit: Might be wrong there. If I recall Chris went to meet him at the airport to fly home. I'm sure there is a photo of them together when the police went to bring Chris back for questioning.

From what I've read Eirene, James Ware left the island the night before the murders. Chris Ware met him after the murders in Bangkok but they were both bought back by the RTP from Bangkok airport together for questioning. So this was the second round of questioning for Chris Ware. The police said James was not a suspect because he left the island before the murders. Would be good to see evidence of this.

[Eirene]

Okay...thanks. Didn't realize they brought them both back. Evidence he left the night before? I'm sure there would be proof/witnesses to that.

[thailandchilli]

Andy Hall and the defense team doing their bit today in Koh Tao

[catsanddogs]

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

James Ware I believe.

[catsanddogs]

Andy Hall and the defense team doing their bit today in Koh Tao

And according to a FB page Win's father is having a mental breakdown.

[boomerangutang]

One theory regarding the DNA is that IF the two lads were tested during the initial round of tests, these samples were saved and switched with the original samples from the victim. Then they conducted another round of collecting samples....found a match. Not saying this is what took place just that with all the BS surrounding this case anything is possible. I have no idea who commited this horrific crime although I sincerely hope that the monsters responsible are brought to justice to enable closure to the families of the victims. MOO

I doubt it is the first time

but how to prove it is the problem

The way I see it is that if it is their DNA then case is over

not solved though as I still can't see how the 2 midgets could have carried out the murders

but they will go down

The way to prove whether the DNA trail is reliable, is to get independent results from the Brits. The Brits are being evasive and stalling - thus far haven't released anything, and missed a release date of inquest set for Jan.6. I think it's because of pressure from the top echelons of Thai military/political totem pole. The Thai PM has already come out 100% behind the brass conducting the investigation (who haven't seemed to have done any investigating since early October). All they've done is revised the frame-up story several times to please the prosecutor. If Thai officials have done any investigating since early October, let's hear about it. The judge is a question mark, and it looks as though the reason he's put off the trial for a half year is the hope it will fade from peoples' concern. It won't.

[boomerangutang]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this. IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Perhaps the defense has sent B2 DNA to Britain to be tested. It would have to be compared to DNA taken independently by Brits (or experts outside of Thailand) to be believeable. Thai investigators have no credence. Brits are believable, but thus far have done nothing that we know about. Nada. Zilch. They're acting like kids who don't want to rat on one of their playmates who's done something wrong - so they stay silent.

It's the judge who set the start date for the trial, not the defense. There won't be a verdict before October '15, unless someone steps forward and admits guilt. Nomsod, are you listening?

[boomerangutang]

There was CCTV aimed at the beach from AC bar (as I understand it from a very early report), but these were withheld by the headman, and supported by the RTP as being private property. If the Burmese had been involved, I have no doubt that the CCTV would have been released post-haste.

As to the two PMs, its all rhetoric - a load of BS to appease the masses in both countries.

If it's true that anyone refused to release CCTV footage for that night, that person should be slapped with a Bt.100,000 day fine until he/she releases it. If that person says the CCTV footage was destroyed, then it's a criminal case. If they say the equipment was malfunctioning, then that claim should be scrutinized. If true, that the CCTV was refused to be handed over, then that's as much proof of a cover-up as any of the other proofs, some of which listed here.....

>>> refusing to share Nomsod's DNA with Brits

>>> Prior to that, Nomsod refusing to submit to DNA test

>>> Concurrently, Nomsod evading police, when everyone knew he was wanted as a prime suspect.

>>> blatantly and amateurishly planting evidence at the Burmese site.

>>> Admitting it was Nomsod or Mon in the 'running man' video, and then miraculously denying it was either of them, the minute the replacement head cop was instated by Bkk.

>>> Not doing full body checks on any of the Headman's people

>>> Not looking at their dwellings nor looking at laundry facilities

>>> Not questioning Nomsod's barber, his mother, nor his g.f.

>>> Not looking in to phone histories on that night, and soon after.

>>> Not pursuing any leads of how a rich son of a Headman could get quickly from the island to Bkk.

>>> Not investigating Mon's cop friend, nor the so-called 'Stingray Man.'

>>> Letting Sean go with a pat on the back.

[AleG]

Of course you are confused, it's a natural consequence of taking conspiracy theories seriously, they don't have consistency between them (not to mention the lack of internal consistency). Once you stop taking people's speculations as facts things become more clear.

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of shorts with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the shorts may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the shorts, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's shorts so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody shorts.

Seems we are all getting a little confused. We were told they were a pair of trousers. From there you have changed them to a pair of pants and now a pair of shorts.

What is the need to change the trousers into shorts ?

You can carry on with the good policing. Just got to hope no one catches you out changing the name of things to fit the story.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-top-bangkok-cop-flies-koh-tao-investigate-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murders-1466049

Yes, they were trousers, not shorts, doesn't change a thing:

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of trousers with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the trousers may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the trousers, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's trousers so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody trousers.

[AleG]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this. IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Perhaps the defense has sent B2 DNA to Britain to be tested. It would have to be compared to DNA taken independently by Brits (or experts outside of Thailand) to be believeable. Thai investigators have no credence. Brits are believable, but thus far have done nothing that we know about. Nada. Zilch. They're acting like kids who don't want to rat on one of their playmates who's done something wrong - so they stay silent.

It's the judge who set the start date for the trial, not the defense. There won't be a verdict before October '15, unless someone steps forward and admits guilt. Nomsod, are you listening?

You are accusing the UK police of being complicit in a cover up for a double murder; your obsession with Nomsod being the only thing you need for the claim.

[AleG]

What is stopping the defense from doing it?

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

They can ask for the full results from the analysis of the original samples.

[berybert]

Of course you are confused, it's a natural consequence of taking conspiracy theories seriously, they don't have consistency between them (not to mention the lack of internal consistency). Once you stop taking people's speculations as facts things become more clear.

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of shorts with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the shorts may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the shorts, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's shorts so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody shorts.

Seems we are all getting a little confused. We were told they were a pair of trousers. From there you have changed them to a pair of pants and now a pair of shorts.

What is the need to change the trousers into shorts ?

You can carry on with the good policing. Just got to hope no one catches you out changing the name of things to fit the story.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-top-bangkok-cop-flies-koh-tao-investigate-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murders-1466049

Yes, they were trousers, not shorts, doesn't change a thing:

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of trousers with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the trousers may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the trousers, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's trousers so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody trousers.

You are changing your story with every post. Of course David couldn't go back to his room to change his trousers. He was wearing shorts.

Do you think it wrong to go back over the clues of a murder scene ? specially one were by the police couldn't get conviction the first 7 times they tried.

Gladly we are all different. If we were all the same who knows maybe Nomsod would have hung before now. But the 2nd cop was different to the first. The second cop wants to hang 2 Burmese with what appears to be very flimsy proof. Gladly again many of us are not like him and we want to see some real evidence.

You may be happy to see people swinging from a rope with very little to prove they committed the crime. Many are not.

[greenchair]

Wondered how long it would take to gently guide people back to nomsod. Tunnel vision will keep you in the dark ???is here

[thailandchilli]

What is stopping the defense from doing it?

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

They can ask for the full results from the analysis of the original samples.

Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it...............

[AleG]

Yes, they were trousers, not shorts, doesn't change a thing:

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of trousers with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the trousers may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the trousers, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's trousers so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody trousers.

You are changing your story with every post. Of course David couldn't go back to his room to change his trousers. He was wearing shorts.

Do you think it wrong to go back over the clues of a murder scene ? specially one were by the police couldn't get conviction the first 7 times they tried.

Gladly we are all different. If we were all the same who knows maybe Nomsod would have hung before now. But the 2nd cop was different to the first. The second cop wants to hang 2 Burmese with what appears to be very flimsy proof. Gladly again many of us are not like him and we want to see some real evidence.

You may be happy to see people swinging from a rope with very little to prove they committed the crime. Many are not.

I'm not changing any story, it was you that claimed "Miller's pants were planted in Ware's suitcase by the police." I proved you wrong, so of course you go off in a tangent to avoid recognizing it.

DNA evidence and belongings of the victims traced back to the suspects, to name two things, don't make flimsy evidence (which is not the same as proof)

Flimsy proof is claiming Nomsod did it based on bugger all evidence... no, not just no evidence at all, against evidence to the contrary.

[AleG]

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

They can ask for the full results from the analysis of the original samples.

Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it...............

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

[catsanddogs]

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

They can ask for the full results from the analysis of the original samples.

Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it...............

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

'Questionable'? That's putting it politely.

[thailandchilli]

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

They can ask for the full results from the analysis of the original samples.

Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it...............

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

You seem to miss the point here. Only a FULL independent DNA test would suffice to lay to doubt the concerns internationally of a cover up in this case. Do you not agree? The UK Authorities do:

UK Government

"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29668785

An independent test would reveal only one of 2 possible results.

1. The DNA did not match and this was a cover up from the start

2. The DNA matches and the very least the B2 are guilty of is rape

So with only these 2 results possible then if the RTP are so confident in their case and are so affected by the international outcry they could have taken the offer by the UK government to prove their case, but they did not do so................

If this had been done and the results were a match, that would satisfy me and I am sure most other people, speculation on the DNA would then cease.............a fair and transparent trial could be had presuming all the other evidence is above board

[loonodingle]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this. IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Perhaps the defense has sent B2 DNA to Britain to be tested. It would have to be compared to DNA taken independently by Brits (or experts outside of Thailand) to be believeable. Thai investigators have no credence. Brits are believable, but thus far have done nothing that we know about. Nada. Zilch. They're acting like kids who don't want to rat on one of their playmates who's done something wrong - so they stay silent.

It's the judge who set the start date for the trial, not the defense. There won't be a verdict before October '15, unless someone steps forward and admits guilt. Nomsod, are you listening?

Can I just say guys the Inquest was adjourned until 15th Oct and it will be a review hearing. Not the Inquest. I know I was listening to her.

[boomerangutang]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this. IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Perhaps the defense has sent B2 DNA to Britain to be tested. It would have to be compared to DNA taken independently by Brits (or experts outside of Thailand) to be believeable. Thai investigators have no credence. Brits are believable, but thus far have done nothing that we know about. Nada. Zilch. They're acting like kids who don't want to rat on one of their playmates who's done something wrong - so they stay silent.

It's the judge who set the start date for the trial, not the defense. There won't be a verdict before October '15, unless someone steps forward and admits guilt. Nomsod, are you listening?

You are accusing the UK police of being complicit in a cover up for a double murder; your obsession with Nomsod being the only thing you need for the claim.

I am 'supposing' not 'accusing.' Sorry I don't fit with your shrill hoped-for dramatics. The Brit experts haven't contributed anything at all thus far to the investigation. They said they'd have an inquest on the 6th, and then a few days before that, they put it off for 10 months. Unless they've been doing nothing at all re; the Ko Tao case, for the past 15 weeks, they should have some basic data: DNA found in/on victims, an idea of weapons used, what drugs may have been in the blood of victims. Their silence and stalling indicates pressure from Thai PM and officials, as Thai officials have made it clear they don't want a professional and thorough investigation of the crime. It indicates that Diplomatic niceties are more important (for officials of both countries) than shedding light on what happened at the crime. It goes without saying that AleG concurs with Thai officialdom, in not wanting a thorough and professional investigation. The folks who think that way, are the same folks who vehemently oppose/attack any leads which implicate any of the Headman's people.

[BritTim]

Yes, they were trousers, not shorts, doesn't change a thing:

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of trousers with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the trousers may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the trousers, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's trousers so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody trousers.

-Reasonable, and may be correct.

On the other hand, for those of us who believe the local police, right from the beginning, were involved in a cover up and attempting to manufacture scapegoats, there are other reasonable possibilities. One is that the trousers originally contained no stain at all. The police may have removed them, assuming they belonged to Chris, and with the intention of converting them into evidence. For whatever reason (cold feet, discovering the trousers belonged to David, Chris having an alibi, more promising scapegoats elsewhere?) the plan to frame Chris was aborted. This may also be correct.

There is insufficient evidence available to us to judge which scenario (or some other) is the truth.

[boomerangutang]

Can I just say guys the Inquest was adjourned until 15th Oct and it will be a review hearing. Not the Inquest. I know I was listening to her.

I don't understand your sentence. When something is 'adjourned' it's put off until a later date. In this case, until mid-Oct, over 9 months from now. So what's the difference between 'a review hearing' and an inquest? Your first sentence makes it sound like they're the same thing. You may have mentioned earlier why this stuff is happening after the trial (and may get further delayed for legal reasons), is it because there's a possible death penalty? Is it because data from Brit Coroner could assist the defense? Or because data from the Brits could show the Thais to be blatantly inept and/or concocting a frame-up and/or meddled with the DNA trail?

Sorry to have so many Q's, but it's annoying that Brit experts, who supposedly have crucial data, are putting off releasing their findings for nearly a year. Indeed, it will have been over a year since they took possession of the victims' bodies.

Delaying and refusing to release any data, fits nicely with Thai officials' plans to frame the Burmese. Do Brit experts want to be seen to be a party to that? If not, release data. They're paid by taxpayers, so they work for the public. Withholding important data could indirectly be endangering backpackers at Ko Tao, as long as really vile men are walking around unhindered.

[AleG]

Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it...............

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

You seem to miss the point here. Only a FULL independent DNA test would suffice to lay to doubt the concerns internationally of a cover up in this case. Do you not agree? The UK Authorities do:

UK Government

"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29668785

An independent test would reveal only one of 2 possible results.

1. The DNA did not match and this was a cover up from the start

2. The DNA matches and the very least the B2 are guilty of is rape

So with only these 2 results possible then if the RTP are so confident in their case and are so affected by the international outcry they could have taken the offer by the UK government to prove their case, but they did not do so................

If this had been done and the results were a match, that would satisfy me and I am sure most other people, speculation on the DNA would then cease.............a fair and transparent trial could be had presuming all the other evidence is above board

Again I ask, what is stopping the defense from carrying out their own independent DNA analysis of the defendants (AKA, not done by the RTP), which is what, as per your cite, what the UK government wants?

[thailandchilli]

AleG #666 Again I ask, what is stopping the defense from carrying out their own independent DNA analysis of the defendants (AKA, not done by the RTP), which is what, as per your cite, what the UK government wants?

Again i reply with the same answer: Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it

The RTP or prosecutors would need to give the defense the original sample of the B2's DNA found inside Hannah, that sample would need to be verified independently and then a new test carried out by an independent body.

The prosecutors or RTP will not allow this if they would then the would have allowed the UK authorities to do it a long time ago.

Now you carry on but its plain you will try to argue against this no matter how clear this is to everyone except you.

[boomerangutang]

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

Yup, here I am jumping up (you knew it would be me, didn't you AleG). I'll state it again for the 7th time, tampering with DNA would not be difficult. One person could clandestinely take the B2 typing, re-label them 'DNA taken from Hannah' .....and everything would fit nicely in place for Thai officials' frame-up.

It wouldn't require changing the DNA trail 'from the very beginning'. If the re-labeling happened, it would have likely been right after the DNA samples were taken from the Burmese, which non-coincidentally, was right after the 2nd head cop was put in charge. Someone earlier mentioned the DNA typing taking from the crime scene was magically transferred to many people initially. That's a BIG assumption, and very doubtful. With a military gov't and police brass working together - it's their style to make announcements and expect every person lower ranks to accept it as gospel. Can you imagine a person of lower rank saying to his superior, "Excuse me sir, I would like to see the original DNA cards labeled, '...taken from Hannah' to check to see for myself whether they do actually match the DNA taken from the Burmese. It's more likely a lower-ranked person would say, "Excuse me sir, I'd like to fondle your daughter and take your pet dog and carve it up for a BBQ party, and only your wife is invited, and she's got to wear lingerie."

[BritTim]

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

First, some important background. Most people when they talk confidently about DNA testing assume that all DNA tests are looking at the same markers. In fact, there are many different kinds of DNA testing that can be done. Unless one knows, in detail, which markers one DNA test was looking at, one cannot even conduct a test on a different sample to see if there is a match. Once you know you have comparable tests, a match may or may not provide a high level of confidence that they come from the same individual. There are many factors that influence this, and not just the chain of custody of the samples.

It is very important that the defense be able to see the prosecution evidence, and especially the DNA evidence, ahead of the trial. It is my impression that strenuous efforts are being made to obstruct them.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with,

I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report.

[boomerangutang]

Again I ask, what is stopping the defense from carrying out their own independent DNA analysis of the defendants (AKA, not done by the RTP), which is what, as per your cite, what the UK government wants?

Sure, the defense can test their clients' DNA 'til the cows come home. The important thing is whether the DNA taken from Hannah is reliable, as Thai officials would want everyone to believe. I agree with ThailandChile that if INDEPENDENTLY (Brit labs) typed DNA from Hannah matches the B2's DNA, then the Burmese are guilty of at least rape (while she was alive, or after?). I differ a bit from the Thai PM who asserts that if the DNA matches, then the Burmese are also guilty of murder.

Beyond that, I'd like to see the independently typed DNA compared with DNA from all the Headman's people, including: Nomsod, Mon, Mon's cop friend, Stingray Man, and other men of interest. Already, Thai officials have refused to share Nomsod's DNA with the Brits, and probably same goes for the others mentioned. Perhaps it's all moot, because the Brits apparently don't want to lift a finger to solve the crime. They're only goal seems to be just to convey to the victims' families, what the RTP told them.

[AleG]

AleG #666 Again I ask, what is stopping the defense from carrying out their own independent DNA analysis of the defendants (AKA, not done by the RTP), which is what, as per your cite, what the UK government wants?

Again i reply with the same answer: Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it

The RTP or prosecutors would need to give the defense the original sample of the B2's DNA found inside Hannah, that sample would need to be verified independently and then a new test carried out by an independent body.

The prosecutors or RTP will not allow this if they would then the would have allowed the UK authorities to do it a long time ago.

Now you carry on but its plain you will try to argue against this no matter how clear this is to everyone except you.

I'm asking, since you are so acquainted with the defense work, if they have actually requested an independent DNA test, and if not, why. Yes, no, don't know?

You claim they would not be allowed to request one, is that an opinion or an actual fact? The argument that they won't because they wouldn't allow the UK investigators is not particularly compelling.

[AleG]

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

Yup, here I am jumping up (you knew it would be me, didn't you AleG). I'll state it again for the 7th time, tampering with DNA would not be difficult. One person could clandestinely take the B2 typing, re-label them 'DNA taken from Hannah' .....and everything would fit nicely in place for Thai officials' frame-up.

It wouldn't require changing the DNA trail 'from the very beginning'. If the re-labeling happened, it would have likely been right after the DNA samples were taken from the Burmese, which non-coincidentally, was right after the 2nd head cop was put in charge. Someone earlier mentioned the DNA typing taking from the crime scene was magically transferred to many people initially. That's a BIG assumption, and very doubtful. With a military gov't and police brass working together - it's their style to make announcements and expect every person lower ranks to accept it as gospel. Can you imagine a person of lower rank saying to his superior, "Excuse me sir, I would like to see the original DNA cards labeled, '...taken from Hannah' to check to see for myself whether they do actually match the DNA taken from the Burmese. It's more likely a lower-ranked person would say, "Excuse me sir, I'd like to fondle your daughter and take your pet dog and carve it up for a BBQ party, and only your wife is invited, and she's got to wear lingerie."

Yes, yes, we heard your conspiracy theories before; let's see some facts now, if there are any.