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Posted

AleG #666 Again I ask, what is stopping the defense from carrying out their own independent DNA analysis of the defendants (AKA, not done by the RTP), which is what, as per your cite, what the UK government wants?

Again i reply with the same answer: Yes they can ask for many things but that does not provide an independent DNA test now does it

The RTP or prosecutors would need to give the defense the original sample of the B2's DNA found inside Hannah, that sample would need to be verified independently and then a new test carried out by an independent body.

The prosecutors or RTP will not allow this if they would then the would have allowed the UK authorities to do it a long time ago.

Now you carry on but its plain you will try to argue against this no matter how clear this is to everyone except you.

I'm asking, since you are so acquainted with the defense work, if they have actually requested an independent DNA test, and if not, why. Yes, no, don't know?

You claim they would not be allowed to request one, is that an opinion or an actual fact? The argument that they won't because they wouldn't allow the UK investigators is not particularly compelling.

If your asking for facts then thats the end of the discussion, the only facts I know to be true is this one:

UK Government
"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.
This did not happen because the role of the UK police was reduced to observational only.
To give an educated opinion based on the above then it would be safe to assume that whether the defense had asked for an independent DNA test and verification or not is irrelevant as it would be refused. But hey I wish I would be wrong in that! If I was then we can guarantee it would be all over the press and Andy Hall would be reporting it as he has done about all other aspects of the case.
Posted

I'm asking, since you are so acquainted with the defense work, if they have actually requested an independent DNA test, and if not, why. Yes, no, don't know?

You claim they would not be allowed to request one, is that an opinion or an actual fact? The argument that they won't because they wouldn't allow the UK investigators is not particularly compelling.

If your asking for facts then thats the end of the discussion, the only facts I know to be true is this one:

UK Government
"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.
This did not happen because the role of the UK police was reduced to observational only.
To give an educated opinion based on the above then it would be safe to assume that whether the defense had asked for an independent DNA test and verification or not is irrelevant as it would be refused. But hey I wish I would be wrong in that! If I was then we can guarantee it would be all over the press and Andy Hall would be reporting it as he has done about all other aspects of the case.

The UK police has no jurisdiction in Thailand, using that as a basis to decide whether the defense, in Thailand, is subject to the same limitations is comparing apples to oranges; that is the reason why I said that argument is not very compelling.

In any case, if Andy Hall has not made a fuzz about the defense being denied an independent DNA test it probably means that either they haven asked, or they did and they were not denied... or they asked, were denied and for some reason the defense hasn't added that to the Reasons why this trial is unfair list of grievances that they air regularly.

Personally, I'd go with the first option until facts emerge.

Posted

I'm asking, since you are so acquainted with the defense work, if they have actually requested an independent DNA test, and if not, why. Yes, no, don't know?

You claim they would not be allowed to request one, is that an opinion or an actual fact? The argument that they won't because they wouldn't allow the UK investigators is not particularly compelling.

If your asking for facts then thats the end of the discussion, the only facts I know to be true is this one:

UK Government
"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.
This did not happen because the role of the UK police was reduced to observational only.
To give an educated opinion based on the above then it would be safe to assume that whether the defense had asked for an independent DNA test and verification or not is irrelevant as it would be refused. But hey I wish I would be wrong in that! If I was then we can guarantee it would be all over the press and Andy Hall would be reporting it as he has done about all other aspects of the case.

The UK police has no jurisdiction in Thailand, using that as a basis to decide whether the defense, in Thailand, is subject to the same limitations is comparing apples to oranges; that is the reason why I said that argument is not very compelling.

In any case, if Andy Hall has not made a fuzz about the defense being denied an independent DNA test it probably means that either they haven asked, or they did and they were not denied... or they asked, were denied and for some reason the defense hasn't added that to the Reasons why this trial is unfair list of grievances that they air regularly.

Personally, I'd go with the first option until facts emerge.

Coming from you then thats hardly compelling compared to others who want a fair and transparent trial

Posted

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

First, some important background. Most people when they talk confidently about DNA testing assume that all DNA tests are looking at the same markers. In fact, there are many different kinds of DNA testing that can be done. Unless one knows, in detail, which markers one DNA test was looking at, one cannot even conduct a test on a different sample to see if there is a match. Once you know you have comparable tests, a match may or may not provide a high level of confidence that they come from the same individual. There are many factors that influence this, and not just the chain of custody of the samples.

It is very important that the defense be able to see the prosecution evidence, and especially the DNA evidence, ahead of the trial. It is my impression that strenuous efforts are being made to obstruct them.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with,

I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report.

Then just tell what methodology was used to analyze the DNA from the crime scene, simple as that.

"I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report."

Claims are a dime a dozen, proving that the laboratories were the analysis were carried out were complicit in a cover up since the very beginning of the investigation is something else altogether, specially since that cover-up scenario would count on the UK authorities to go along with it.

If the defense is going to just contest the results with that sort of unsupported claims they may just as well give up already.

Posted

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

First, some important background. Most people when they talk confidently about DNA testing assume that all DNA tests are looking at the same markers. In fact, there are many different kinds of DNA testing that can be done. Unless one knows, in detail, which markers one DNA test was looking at, one cannot even conduct a test on a different sample to see if there is a match. Once you know you have comparable tests, a match may or may not provide a high level of confidence that they come from the same individual. There are many factors that influence this, and not just the chain of custody of the samples.

It is very important that the defense be able to see the prosecution evidence, and especially the DNA evidence, ahead of the trial. It is my impression that strenuous efforts are being made to obstruct them.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with,

I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report.

Then just tell what methodology was used to analyze the DNA from the crime scene, simple as that.

"I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report."

Claims are a dime a dozen, proving that the laboratories were the analysis were carried out were complicit in a cover up since the very beginning of the investigation is something else altogether, specially since that cover-up scenario would count on the UK authorities to go along with it.

If the defense is going to just contest the results with that sort of unsupported claims they may just as well give up already.

Why would it count on the "UK authorities to go along with it."

Give me some facts on that statement

  • Like 1
Posted

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

Yup, here I am jumping up (you knew it would be me, didn't you AleG). I'll state it again for the 7th time, tampering with DNA would not be difficult. One person could clandestinely take the B2 typing, re-label them 'DNA taken from Hannah' .....and everything would fit nicely in place for Thai officials' frame-up.

It wouldn't require changing the DNA trail 'from the very beginning'. If the re-labeling happened, it would have likely been right after the DNA samples were taken from the Burmese, which non-coincidentally, was right after the 2nd head cop was put in charge. Someone earlier mentioned the DNA typing taking from the crime scene was magically transferred to many people initially. That's a BIG assumption, and very doubtful. With a military gov't and police brass working together - it's their style to make announcements and expect every person lower ranks to accept it as gospel. Can you imagine a person of lower rank saying to his superior, "Excuse me sir, I would like to see the original DNA cards labeled, '...taken from Hannah' to check to see for myself whether they do actually match the DNA taken from the Burmese. It's more likely a lower-ranked person would say, "Excuse me sir, I'd like to fondle your daughter and take your pet dog and carve it up for a BBQ party, and only your wife is invited, and she's got to wear lingerie."

Yes, yes, we heard your conspiracy theories before; let's see some facts now, if there are any.

You should send your comment to the RTP.

Posted

They can make a blind, independent test of the defendants DNA, without providing the results from the DNA from the victims to the laboratory(es), if later they don't match it would prove the prosecution evidence is questionable.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with, but that would have required to change the results at the very beginning to match the two Burmese an the end of a sham investigation, which is a ridiculous scenario, so really, don't bother.

First, some important background. Most people when they talk confidently about DNA testing assume that all DNA tests are looking at the same markers. In fact, there are many different kinds of DNA testing that can be done. Unless one knows, in detail, which markers one DNA test was looking at, one cannot even conduct a test on a different sample to see if there is a match. Once you know you have comparable tests, a match may or may not provide a high level of confidence that they come from the same individual. There are many factors that influence this, and not just the chain of custody of the samples.

It is very important that the defense be able to see the prosecution evidence, and especially the DNA evidence, ahead of the trial. It is my impression that strenuous efforts are being made to obstruct them.

I'm sure someone is going to jump up claiming that the DNA results from the victims were tampered with,

I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report.

Then just tell what methodology was used to analyze the DNA from the crime scene, simple as that.

"I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report."

Claims are a dime a dozen, proving that the laboratories were the analysis were carried out were complicit in a cover up since the very beginning of the investigation is something else altogether, specially since that cover-up scenario would count on the UK authorities to go along with it.

If the defense is going to just contest the results with that sort of unsupported claims they may just as well give up already.

The laboratories where the tests were carried out are not told the origin of the samples. They are given a numbered sample and told which tests to carry out. They make a report accordingly, and this is associated by the investigator with the victim. As others have repeatedly pointed out, you need to trust the investigator, and some of us do not.

that cover-up scenario would count on the UK authorities to go along with it.

I am really struggling with how the UK authorities would be able to say anything about the DNA results (unless, perhaps, the UK Home Office pathologist was able to independently extract samples after the bodies were returned to the UK). We know the Met guys were not able to review the results while here.

  • Like 1
Posted

AleG, similar to Thai officialdom, wants us to believe the DNA trail, as put together by Thai authorities, is reliable. Labs just do the typing, then give it over to whomever requests it. In this case, Thai officials. If one or two Thai officials change the labeling of the DNA cards (taken from Hannah), who but them is going to really know.

The Brits are unlikely complicit in the cover up, but if they know anything which can clear up the public's doubts, they're not letting anyone know other than the victims' families. The Brit Coroner Office's silence and evasiveness indicates they have have data which conflicts with Thai officials' data. If so, the Brits are opting to do nothing, rather than anger top Thai officials. It would be refreshing to have an insider, like Daniel Ellsberg (Pentagon Papers) buck the official silence on the matter, and go rogue and let the public know what they're hiding. It would aid the defense also, which spooks Thai authorities who desperately want convictions. Most galling of all, for Thai authorities and the Headman, is the possibility of British findings implicating the Headman's people. Then we'd hear a whole buzz of protest from the Gang of 4. But that would difficult, because Brit officials aren't being given any DNA data from the Headman's people - by Thai authorities.

  • Like 1
Posted

Just like jdinasia, when AleG is stumped for things to say, he devolves to repeating 'conspiracy theory' over and over. The biggest conspiracy theory in this botched investigation is the conspiracy of bumbling Thai top officials. Since the replacement head cop took over, they've done nothing but try to frame the B2 while shielding the Headman's people - and not even doing a good job at it.

If it weren't for social media, some of which contributes things/photos/first-had witness accounts which could prove useful for establishing guilt .....then this investigation would go the same route as others by Thai officials, which wound up nailing scapegoats, and enabling VIPs to get off smelling like cheap cologne.

If Thai officials are paranoid and defensive and riven by self-doubts, then they only have themselves to blame. They dug the hole they're in. The decent people on social media who are seeking truth and justice have given them ways to climb out of their mud hole, but Thai officialdom is hanging tough, and continuing to dig deeper in the doo doo.

  • Like 2
Posted

Then just tell what methodology was used to analyze the DNA from the crime scene, simple as that.

"I am going to claim that they could have been, and probably could still be, given that very few people actually have access to those results and could testify that they were different from those in the original report."

Claims are a dime a dozen, proving that the laboratories were the analysis were carried out were complicit in a cover up since the very beginning of the investigation is something else altogether, specially since that cover-up scenario would count on the UK authorities to go along with it.

If the defense is going to just contest the results with that sort of unsupported claims they may just as well give up already.

Why would it count on the "UK authorities to go along with it."

Give me some facts on that statement

Because they would have to count on the UK pathologist to not do DNA analysis or if they did to keep mum about their results if they don't match the Thai ones.

Posted

Just like jdinasia, when AleG is stumped for things to say, he devolves to repeating 'conspiracy theory' over and over. The biggest conspiracy theory in this botched investigation is the conspiracy of bumbling Thai top officials. Since the replacement head cop took over, they've done nothing but try to frame the B2 while shielding the Headman's people - and not even doing a good job at it.

If it weren't for social media, some of which contributes things/photos/first-had witness accounts which could prove useful for establishing guilt .....then this investigation would go the same route as others by Thai officials, which wound up nailing scapegoats, and enabling VIPs to get off smelling like cheap cologne.

If Thai officials are paranoid and defensive and riven by self-doubts, then they only have themselves to blame. They dug the hole they're in. The decent people on social media who are seeking truth and justice have given them ways to climb out of their mud hole, but Thai officialdom is hanging tough, and continuing to dig deeper in the doo doo.

"when AleG is stumped for things to say, he devolves to repeating 'conspiracy theory' over and over."

That's funny, since it's you who, for lack of facts or logical arguments, always goes back to your conspiracy theories; let's see just from your last two posts:

-"If one or two Thai officials change the labeling of the DNA cards (taken from Hannah), who but them is going to really know."

-"The Brit Coroner Office's silence and evasiveness indicates they have have data which conflicts with Thai officials' data. If so, the Brits are opting to do nothing, rather than anger top Thai officials"

-"It would be refreshing to have an insider, like Daniel Ellsberg (Pentagon Papers) buck the official silence on the matter, and go rogue and let the public know what they're hiding"

-"But that would difficult, because Brit officials aren't being given any DNA data from the Headman's people - by Thai authorities."

-"The biggest conspiracy theory in this botched investigation is the conspiracy of bumbling Thai top officials."

-"Since the replacement head cop took over, they've done nothing but try to frame the B2 while shielding the Headman's people"

-"then this investigation would go the same route as others by Thai officials, which wound up nailing scapegoats, and enabling VIPs to get off smelling like cheap cologne."

Darn, I may just as well have quoted the entire posts.

Posted (edited)

Yes, they were trousers, not shorts, doesn't change a thing:

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of trousers with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the trousers may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the trousers, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's trousers so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody trousers.

You are changing your story with every post. Of course David couldn't go back to his room to change his trousers. He was wearing shorts.

Do you think it wrong to go back over the clues of a murder scene ? specially one were by the police couldn't get conviction the first 7 times they tried.

Gladly we are all different. If we were all the same who knows maybe Nomsod would have hung before now. But the 2nd cop was different to the first. The second cop wants to hang 2 Burmese with what appears to be very flimsy proof. Gladly again many of us are not like him and we want to see some real evidence.

You may be happy to see people swinging from a rope with very little to prove they committed the crime. Many are not.

I'm not changing any story, it was you that claimed "Miller's pants were planted in Ware's suitcase by the police." I proved you wrong, so of course you go off in a tangent to avoid recognizing it.

DNA evidence and belongings of the victims traced back to the suspects, to name two things, don't make flimsy evidence (which is not the same as proof)

Flimsy proof is claiming Nomsod did it based on bugger all evidence... no, not just no evidence at all, against evidence to the contrary.

The reason I mention Nomsod is because the people you have total trust in are the same people who had him down as target 1.

I have gone off in no tangents at all.

It was you who claimed the trousers were pants were shorts.

As for things that trace back to the victims ? DNA that is nonsense and a phone that was Hannah's or David's depending on which day you read the story.

P.S. I don't think Nomsod killed anyone. I just mentioned he could have been hung by now if you believed everything the RTP say.

P.P.S There are hours of footage from cctv cameras. Give me one good reason the family of the AC Bar are against it being shown. Then tell me again you believe all you type. Personal property and we don't want anyone to see it. OK sounds good to me!!!!

Edited by berybert
  • Like 2
Posted

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

attachicon.gifJames Ware.jpg

interesting photo , to me that looks like the guy in the white baggy shirt that arrives at the food stall with the female friend , just as david continues up the road to get some fags . There is a bit of footage where david seems to come out of the bar / shop on the otherside of the road to the foods stall ( lower left of the stall )

James Ware I believe.

Posted

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

attachicon.gifJames Ware.jpg

interesting photo , to me that looks like the guy in the white baggy shirt that arrives at the food stall with the female friend , just as david continues up the road to get some fags . There is a bit of footage where david seems to come out of the bar / shop on the otherside of the road to the foods stall ( lower left of the stall )

James Ware I believe.

crap picture i know .. . but go look for yourselves ....

post-221615-0-29916800-1420918493_thumb.

  • Like 1
Posted

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

attachicon.gifJames Ware.jpg

interesting photo , to me that looks like the guy in the white baggy shirt that arrives at the food stall with the female friend , just as david continues up the road to get some fags . There is a bit of footage where david seems to come out of the bar / shop on the otherside of the road to the foods stall ( lower left of the stall )

James Ware I believe.

crap picture i know .. . but go look for yourselves ....

post-221615-0-25149400-1420918905_thumb.

Posted

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

attachicon.gifJames Ware.jpg

interesting photo , to me that looks like the guy in the white baggy shirt that arrives at the food stall with the female friend , just as david continues up the road to get some fags . There is a bit of footage where david seems to come out of the bar / shop on the otherside of the road to the foods stall ( lower left of the stall )

James Ware I believe.

crap picture i know .. . but go look for yourselves ....

Could be James, could be Christopher. Close up looks like the guy is wearing a ring on right hand. Or maybe I'm hallucinating again.

Posted

Another thought. The stained trousers could have belonged to James Ware. What time did he leave the island the night before the murders? And what transport did he use? Why did he leave? James is Chris's younger brother I think I read. Blood is thicker than water the saying goes.

Also, we have seen from the CCTV video that something happened on the eve and morning of 14/15 Sept as David was seen walking past the food stall. We saw a crowd of people looking in the direction of where David was coming from as if something was going down - someone shouting maybe at David. And in another video we saw the couple at the food stand looking in the direction of where David was coming from, again, the woman's face as if something odd was going on. We then see what looks like Chris Ware and one of Hannahs friends (to me anyway) arrive at the stall and David carries on walking down the street. It could have been that Ware was having issues with David or shouting at him because the woman at the stall then turns her attention back to the stall once this bloke that looks like Ware is there. We don't see anyone else walk past in that video that takes her attention. Or maybe someone was shouting at both Chris and David and they went in the other direction so did not come into view of the CCTV camera.

Also, that picture that was put up of David after he had been murdered - he had a black eye. Because we have no footage to look at from ANY source after 2am ish with David or Hannah in it, it may be possible that David got that black eye before he was murdered. Even before he got to the beach. Maybe in one of the bars, maybe at the Ocean View accommodation, or somewhere in the street or a side alley. The friends know lots plenty and that's why the defence is asking them to take the stand. They are no doubt living in terrible fear and know that whatever they say will not bring Hannah and David back. And it appears the UK police also want to protect them by refusing to do what they should be doing which is taking a stand and getting independent DNA tests done for the sake of the victims, their families and and all the other naive youngsters that are planning to take the holiday of a lifetime.

attachicon.gifJames Ware.jpg

interesting photo , to me that looks like the guy in the white baggy shirt that arrives at the food stall with the female friend , just as david continues up the road to get some fags . There is a bit of footage where david seems to come out of the bar / shop on the otherside of the road to the foods stall ( lower left of the stall )

James Ware I believe.

crap picture i know .. . but go look for yourselves ....

Its not Cluedo here is it?

Are you all forgetting that 3 Different Asian DNA was recovered from the Body Of Hannah WItheridge.

No Farang DNA.

A possible witness in Sean McAnna to part of the incident. Also possible Blonde Haired Female Involvement.

I had a Medium contact me.... (its not my thing I may add) and she reckons there was a woman involved. That Hannah had a problem with a woman that night.

Just saying by the way.. as i say I am not into all that. Some of you maybe though.

Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

  • Like 1
Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

LOL.....

Who says she was running???

Are you a Medium as well..

I think it would be fair to say it was Asian DNA.. No Falang detained and jailed. So its Asian

They did say blonde hair....well I see the B2 did not have blonde hair yet they retrieved it from Hannah's hand. No doubt as she fought back.

Also the RTP Fed us what they want. We are the Mushrooms and you know what they grow with don't you.

As for the Cluedo game well I think its: Nomsod, On the Beach, with a Hoe............... I would like to add his Gang of thugs as well.

  • Like 1
Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

Sorry missed the Motive.......

The motive was he was all over her like a rash and she wasn't having non of it. Davids taken her away from there hence he was then a target. The guy who wanted her had her and then his mate had a go as well. Another one sexually assaulted her as well. She has what appears like fingers marks on her upper body were she has been restrained by people.

Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

LOL.....

Who says she was running???

Are you a Medium as well..

I think it would be fair to say it was Asian DNA.. No Falang detained and jailed. So its Asian

They did say blonde hair....well I see the B2 did not have blonde hair yet they retrieved it from Hannah's hand. No doubt as she fought back.

Also the RTP Fed us what they want. We are the Mushrooms and you know what they grow with don't you.

As for the Cluedo game well I think its: Nomsod, On the Beach, with a Hoe............... I would like to add his Gang of thugs as well.

Police are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

I think it would be fair to say it was Asian DNA.. No Falang detained and jailed. So its Asian

Well you could then say - no Thai detained or jailed so it's Burmese.

  • Like 1
Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

Sorry missed the Motive.......

The motive was he was all over her like a rash and she wasn't having non of it. Davids taken her away from there hence he was then a target. The guy who wanted her had her and then his mate had a go as well. Another one sexually assaulted her as well. She has what appears like fingers marks on her upper body were she has been restrained by people.

Just like he had to take care of all the other girls who maybe turned him down saying to him: No BJ for you tonight, big boy.

Posted

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

Sorry missed the Motive.......

The motive was he was all over her like a rash and she wasn't having non of it. Davids taken her away from there hence he was then a target. The guy who wanted her had her and then his mate had a go as well. Another one sexually assaulted her as well. She has what appears like fingers marks on her upper body were she has been restrained by people.

Just like he had to take care of all the other girls who maybe turned him down saying to him: No BJ for you tonight, big boy.

Unfortunately neither of us know the motive crabby. There is very little facts on here that can be backed up from either side of the fence.

They will go to their deaths on the back of the DNA..unless the fact that they kept it in house raises sufficient cause for concern that the presiding judge rulers it inadmissible.

No Pornthip

No 3rd Party verification.

It must weaken their case. not sure if its enough though and non of us do. its all if buts and maybe's hey!!

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

I don't know of any motive or if he was involved at all -- all I'm questioning is whether this would have been the first time he had ever been turned down and what did he do every other time some farang floozie turned him down?

Edited by JLCrab
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