Death penalty states unmoved by botched execution

[CMNightRider]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

I've always thought life behind bars with NO possibility of parole would be worse than an execution. The latter is what some of these nut jobs want anyway. Plus, isn't it cheaper for incarceration versus the crazy legal costs for an execution?

Giving a murderer life-without in prison, instead of giving them the death penalty isn't necessarily what you may think. You would think, once a person is committed to prison with life-without that is the end of story.

Laws change, so do parole boards, and people tend to forget the past. As long as a murderer lives, there is always a chance he or she will strike again. Many will murder again while in prison. There are people (liberals) who run the criminal justice system who are naive enough (common liberal trait) to allow him or her to repeat his crime.

As to those currently on death row, let's get that electrical current flowing.

[Boon Mee]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

I've always thought life behind bars with NO possibility of parole would be worse than an execution. The latter is what some of these nut jobs want anyway. Plus, isn't it cheaper for incarceration versus the crazy legal costs for an execution?

Giving a murderer life-without in prison, instead of giving them the death penalty isn't necessarily what you may think. You would think, once a person is committed to prison with life-without that is the end of story.

Laws change, so do parole boards, and people tend to forget the past. As long as a murderer lives, there is always a chance he or she will strike again. Many will murder again while in prison. There are people (liberals) who run the criminal justice system who are naive enough (common liberal trait) to allow him or her to repeat his crime.

As to those currently on death row, let's get that electrical current flowing.

That's right. Take for example the Charles Manson killings. If Sharon Tate's sister stops showing up at those parole hearings, 'ol Charlie will be back walking the streets. Life w/out doesn't mean they will remain in jail.

[Publicus]

Accomplished professional expert managers and supervisors, from wardens of state prisons and police chiefs to state prosecutors of killers who kill in prison, speak to these issues based on the long careers they all have had in the state prison systems of the country.

The representative quotes that follow are statements by trained and experienced long term professionals in the prison system, the criminal justice system, and in the public safety profession.

"I've been in this system for over 40 years. I’ve been held hostage and been through multiple prison riots. If someone told me that the death penalty would protect me as a corrections officer, I would be offended. Safety inside prisons depends on proper staffing, programming, and effective reintegration of inmates back into society. The death penalty does not safeguard anybody."1

Calvin Lightfoot, former corrections officer, warden, and Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional Services for the state of Maryland

"A well-managed prison with proper classification and staffing can create incentives for lifers to behave while segregating and punishing those who are a threat before violence ever occurs. Our prison system already knows how to do this. The reality is that the death penalty is not, and never has been, a deterrent. Prison safety depends on proper staffing, equipment, resources and training. Certainly the money spent on trying to put someone to death for over 20 years could find better use in addressing those practical needs of our correctional system."2

John Connor, former chief special prosecutor for the state of Montana for 21 years, prosecuting five death penalty cases involving prison homicides.

The death penalty is no more of a deterrent for prison murder than it is for murder outside prison. If it were, one would expect more prison murders in non-death penalty states. Yet 98% of prison murders occurred in jurisdictions that have the death penalty during the last year that data was available.

http://ejusa.org/learn/prison%20killings

"If the millions of dollars currently spent on the death penalty were spent on investigating unsolved homicides, modernizing crime labs and expanding effective violence prevention programs, our communities would be much safer."2

Ray Samuels, Former Police Chief of Newark, California

EJUSA DP factsheet rison killi

[Credo]

I spent most of my life being an opponent of the death penalty. My opposition has changed and in part it is due to the holier-than-thou attitude of those who oppose the death penalty. Please don't tell me what to believe. Please don't tell me what is right or wrong.

There are people who do very, very bad things and some of them are put to death. I wouldn't push the button myself, but I wouldn't throw eggs at the people who do.

Please don't tell me I am wrong or cruel, because I am not. I don't want retribution. Justice is more rare than we would like to believe. I do not want these people to be free and I don't want to run the risk of them getting out.

Give me an alternative that assures that these people won't kill again and I'll be for it. Maybe at some point in the future we will get that magic drug and they will be as tame as a pet rabbit, but right now it doesn't exist.

Mostly, I don't want people to tell me what to believe, or that I am uncivilized.

None of the countries that outlawed the death penalty have done it through a public referendum. It's been a decision made by lawmakers.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Credo

[Publicus]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

I've always thought life behind bars with NO possibility of parole would be worse than an execution. The latter is what some of these nut jobs want anyway. Plus, isn't it cheaper for incarceration versus the crazy legal costs for an execution?

Giving a murderer life-without in prison, instead of giving them the death penalty isn't necessarily what you may think. You would think, once a person is committed to prison with life-without that is the end of story.

Laws change, so do parole boards, and people tend to forget the past. As long as a murderer lives, there is always a chance he or she will strike again. Many will murder again while in prison. There are people (liberals) who run the criminal justice system who are naive enough (common liberal trait) to allow him or her to repeat his crime.

As to those currently on death row, let's get that electrical current flowing.

That's right. Take for example the Charles Manson killings. If Sharon Tate's sister stops showing up at those parole hearings, 'ol Charlie will be back walking the streets. Life w/out doesn't mean they will remain in jail.

No parole for violent offenders, period. The country needs more of such laws. So take your hand off the power lever of the electric chair to buttonhole your governor at his/her favorite coffee shop any morning of the week to say what we need, which is better laws and less pursuit of death as a solution to a problem.

From the Los Angeles Times.....

Why Should Murderers Get Parole? : Three-quarters of convicted killers in California are released, sometimes after just 13 years.MITCHELL KEITER | Mitchell Keiter is a California deputy attorney general.

Jose Morales murdered his girlfriend in Los Angeles. After trial and conviction, a court sentenced him to life imprisonment. Three months after his release, he murdered his new wife. Last month, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Morales was not entitled to a new parole hearing every year, only every third year. The real question is why people like Morales are eligible for parole at all.

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-05-23/local/me-4925_1_murderer-paroled-convicted

Lucinda Devlin/m-Bochum Gallery Photo: Lucinda Devlin/Galerie m Bochum

Electric Chair, Greensville Correctional Facility, Jarratt, Virginia, 1991

Lucinda Devlin/m-Bochum Gallery Photo: Lucinda Devlin/Galerie m Bochum

Lethal Injection Chamber, Territorial Correctional Facility, Canon City, Colorado, 1991

Lucinda Devlin/m-Bochum Gallery Photo: Lucinda Devlin/Galerie m Bochum

Gallows, Department of Corrections, Smyrna, Delaware, 1991

Delaware tore down its gallows in 2003. Executions are now performed through lethal injection.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Publicus

[Ulysses G.]

Accomplished professional expert managers and supervisors, from wardens of state prisons and police chiefs to state prosecutors of killers who kill in prison, speak to these issues based on the long careers they all have had in the state prison systems of the country.

The representative quotes that follow are statements by trained and experienced long term professionals in the prison system, the criminal justice system, and in the public safety profession.

I'm sure that you realize that many in law enforcement disagree with these views and support capital punishment.

“

When an individual murders another individual, society must stand up and denounce this act, and if that act was so heinous that it warrants death then that individual chose their fate by his or her actions,” said Sgt. Rich Holton, president of the Hartford Police Union. “The death penalty is not about ‘an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth,’ it’s about protecting and safeguarding innocent victims - men, women, children and the elderly - from predators within society who do not have a moral compass and do not value life as the rest of society does. Is it too much to ask that these violent predators forfeit their lives when they did not give their victims a chance?”

"When a state puts death row criminals to death quickly, it creates a chilling effect on violent criminals in our society," Sheriff Jack Parker said. "While working in the jail in the 1980s, I often heard inmates say the only thing that kept them from killing their victim was their fear of the (electric) chair. Unfortunately, waiting too many years for a death sentence to be carried out is bad for the victim's family, bad for justice and dilutes any deterrent value."

Many more where those came from:

http://prodpquotes.info/prodp/default/view/1613/Law-Enforcement-Officials-from-the-USA

[Boon Mee]

Yeah, it's pretty much Catch & Release there in the States these days:

Recent Parolee Arrested in Shooting Off-Duty St. Louis Police Officer

A recent parolee was charged in the shooting last week of an off-duty police officer in the Hyde Park neighborhood.

Dominic Irons (Police One)

Irons was charged with second degree murder for the death of an accomplice who was killed in the shootout.
It is not clear if Irons knew he was shooting at an off-duty police officer.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported:

A recent parolee has been charged in the shooting last weekend of an off-duty St. Louis police officer in the city’s Hyde Park neighborhood.

Authorities said the officer was critically injured Dec. 19 in a gunfight with people in a car driven by the parolee, Dominic Lamont Irons, 29, of the 2800 block of Delmar Boulevard.

A court document says one of the others in the car was killed in the shootout. At least one other person was still being sought by police.

Irons was charged Saturday with assault, armed criminal action and unlawful use of a weapon. The circuit attorney’s office said he also was charged with second-degree murder in connection with the death of the accomplice.

According to a court document, Irons and the others in the car followed the officer’s truck for the purpose of shooting him.

As the officer pulled to the curb in the 3800 block of North 25th Street and began to get out of his truck, Irons drove alongside and someone in the car shot at the officer.

Authorities said the officer returned fire and Terrell Beasley, 28, of the 4000 block of Cleveland Avenue, was killed during the shootout. Beasley’s body was found a few hours later in a burning vehicle in the 700 block of Thrush Avenue in the Baden neighborhood.

The court document does not say why the people in the car were following the officer and whether they knew he was an officer. Authorities didn’t say whether Irons fired

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/recent-parolee-charged-in-shooting-of-off-duty-st-louis/article_da90c18a-2bb0-5767-a467-1ecf1f04d788.html

What is it with these bleeding hearts always siding with the Perp rather than the victim?

[Publicus]

Yes, there are of course innumerable horror stories on each side, and the experiences are vivid, valid.

There are arguments on each side which are convincing depending on one's point of view on the issue.

Those guys can present their side, I'll present my side and n'er the twain shall meet.

Nothing new in what is occurring at the thread and for this particular topic.

[CMNightRider]

I don't believe most death penalty opponents think or really care about victims of crime. Actually, I don't think they care about the killers either. It seems their self-esteem is what concerns them.

This is why liberal arguments against the death penalty are always circular. It's not about logic (usually lacking in liberals) it's about how they feel about themselves.

You have to look long and hard to find anyone in law enforcement who doesn't believe in the death penalty, in spite of the couple individuals Publicus quoted in his #65 post.

If death penalty opponents were to think of capital punishment as a late abortion it would make sense to them. After all, most of these people have no problem with unborn babies being chopped up with scissors. That should be a sobering thought for anyone.

Edited December 30, 2014 by CMNightRider

[Boon Mee]

.

If death penalty opponents were to think of capital punishment as a late abortion it would make sense to them. After all, most of these people have no problem with unborn babies being chopped up with scissors. That should be a sobering thought for anyone.

Indeed.

Good analogy

[Publicus]

I don't believe most death penalty opponents think or really care about victims of crime. Actually, I don't think they care about the killers either. It seems their self-esteem is what concerns them.

This is why liberal arguments against the death penalty are always circular. It's not about logic (usually lacking in liberals) it's about how they feel about themselves.

You have to look long and hard to find anyone in law enforcement who doesn't believe in the death penalty, in spite of the couple individuals Publicus quoted in his #65 post.

If death penalty opponents were to think of capital punishment as a late abortion it would make sense to them. After all, most of these people have no problem with unborn babies being chopped up with scissors. That should be a sobering thought for anyone.

I don't believe most death penalty opponents think or really care about victims of crime. Actually, I don't think they care about the killers either. It seems their self-esteem is what concerns them.

I don't believe most death penalty advocates think or really care about victims of crime. Actually, I don't think they care about the killers either. It seems their self-esteem is what concerns them.

This is why conservative arguments against abolition are always circular. It's not about logic (usually lacking in conservatives) it's about how they feel about themselves.

If death penalty advocates were to think of a late abortion as capital punishment,it would make sense to them. After all, most of these people have no problem with electrocuting the hell out of some poor guy who got caught up in the system.That should be a sobering thought for anyone.

[samran]

.

If death penalty opponents were to think of capital punishment as a late abortion it would make sense to them. After all, most of these people have no problem with unborn babies being chopped up with scissors. That should be a sobering thought for anyone.

Indeed.

Good analogy

Crap analogy.

Just useless hyperbole you expect from the tub thumpers on the nutbag right.

Ask millions of Catholics about their opposition to both and they'll say to shove the analogy up your clacker.

[Scott]

This is the last reminder to stay on the topic and to stop making remarks directed at other posters. Continuing to do so will result in a warning and suspension.

[biplanebluey]

What the death penalty isn't:

1. A deterrent for others.

2. Primarily intended as punishment.

What the death penalty is:

1. An assurance to society that the perp won't do it again.

2. A statement by society that some crimes are too horrific to deserve life.

But 100K to renovate a room? Geez, a bullet costs 2 for a dollar.

After the initial purchase 3metres of rope costs nothing and lasts indefinitely !!!!!