12 Month Family/General Visitor Visa

[KevWaters]

....is not possible.

I want my partner and 5 month old son to stay with me in England whilst I complete 12 months of teacher training (PGCE) but it seems that I will have to spend 6 months without them. This is the last thing I want as I do not want to miss my son's first steps or first words.

So, I need a way around this. How can I get my partner the right to stay with me during my time in England whilst I'm completing the PGCE training?

I have thought about registering her onto a LEVEL 6 course at college. Can anyone suggest a course that has minimal hours, is not expensive and is not too difficult for a none native speaker to complete? A catering course may be most ideal.

[KevWaters]

A long term visa for £300 seems to cover a year but with a maximum stay of 6 months per visit.

Think my partner can fly out and straight back to activate the second stay? If so, think she will need to fly all the way back home or just to a neighbouring Country?

Anyone got any experience of this? The Gov.UK website says nothing about it.

[theoldgit]

A long term visas still only allows the visa holder to stay in the UK for six months in a twelve month period, you cannot do a "visa run" and get a second six months on your return.

Longer term visit visas are really designed for those who need to visit on a regular basis as genuine visitors, they are not really meant for, and neither are they cost effective, for those who want to spend prolonged periods in the UK.

[KevWaters]

They offer a short stay 6 month visa and 1 year long term visa for an extra 300.If a person can't stay longer than 6 out of 12 months why offer a year at a higher cost? That's what is confusing me.

The direct.gov.uk website doesn't mention a maximum amount of time per year, just per visit. It doesn't make it easier by omitting how long a person needs to stay away for before they return either, or where they need to go.

Argh.....all a big incoherent mess :-(

[KevWaters]

I guess they offer it so a person can come and go as many times as they like during the 6 month period. They should refer to it as multiple entry rather than long term stay.

If you can find info about only being allowed to stay for 6 out of 12 months please do link me to it

[KevWaters]

That said...I don't know why they refer to it as a 1 year visa rather than a '6 month multiple entry visitor visa', for example.

[theoldgit]

They offer a short stay 6 month visa and 1 year long term visa for an extra 300.If a person can't stay longer than 6 out of 12 months why offer a year at a higher cost? That's what is confusing me.

The direct.gov.uk website doesn't mention a maximum amount of time per year, just per visit. It doesn't make it easier by omitting how long a person needs to stay away for before they return either, or where they need to go.

The higher cost is for no other reason than to generate cash from applicants, in the depths of their website somewhere you will see that it costs the UKVI about the same to process a longer term visa as it does a regular short term visa. They know that people that need to travel on a regular basis are often willing to pay a premium to able to travel at short notice without going through the visa process every time.

There is no length of time a person needs to stay away, that's why it's not mentioned, the rule about staying no more than six out of any twelve months isn't actually set in stone but it's a convention, but a visa holder would have a hard time convincing that they are genuine visitors if they try to visit for longer periods on a visit visa.

My partner just paid a tad over 17,000 Baht for a two year visit visa, she isn't expecting to spend anything like six months in the UK in either year her visa is valid for, she just paid not to have to go through, what she believes to be, the indignity of applying every time she wishes to visit.

[theoldgit]

I guess they offer it so a person can come and go as many times as they like during the 6 month period. They should refer to it as multiple entry rather than long term stay.

If you can find info about only being allowed to stay for 6 out of 12 months please do link me to it

This refers to a Family Visit Visa, but the requirements are the same as a General, this link doesn't give the details of the six in any twelve month rule https://www.gov.uk/family-visit-visa/overview

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The " 6 in any 12 month rule" was never written into immigration law, but it did used to be in the UKVI guidance for visitors. It no longer exists. The Immigration Rules were changed, and they now say, in paragraph 41, amongst other things, that the requirements for a visitor are that he :

(i) is genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a limited period as stated by him, not exceeding 6 months or not exceeding 12 months in the case of a person seeking entry to accompany an academic visitor (as their child, spouse or partner), provided in the latter case the visitor accompanying the academic visitor has entry clearance; and

(ii) intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him; and does not intend to live for extended periods in the United Kingdom through frequent or successive visits; and...................

So, firstly, the maximum period of any visit is 6 months. Secondly, if you try to return to the UK before any reasonable period of stay outside the UK, then the immigration officer in the UK may decide that the visa holder is trying to live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits.

First of all, you have to get a 12 month long-stay visa before you can even try to spend the amount of time in the UK that you want. If you tell the ECO, in the visa application, that it is your intention, or rather your partner's intention, to remain with you in the UK for as much of the 12 months as she can, then the application will be refused for sure. You will need to accept that this is not possible ( I think you are already aware of this), and look for other options.

[KevWaters]

The " 6 in any 12 month rule" was never written into immigration law, but it did used to be in the UKVI guidance for visitors. It no longer exists. The Immigration Rules were changed, and they now say, in paragraph 41, amongst other things, that the requirements for a visitor are that he :

(i) is genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a limited period as stated by him, not exceeding 6 months or not exceeding 12 months in the case of a person seeking entry to accompany an academic visitor (as their child, spouse or partner), provided in the latter case the visitor accompanying the academic visitor has entry clearance; and

(ii) intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him; and does not intend to live for extended periods in the United Kingdom through frequent or successive visits; and...................

So, firstly, the maximum period of any visit is 6 months. Secondly, if you try to return to the UK before any reasonable period of stay outside the UK, then the immigration officer in the UK may decide that the visa holder is trying to live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits.

First of all, you have to get a 12 month long-stay visa before you can even try to spend the amount of time in the UK that you want. If you tell the ECO, in the visa application, that it is your intention, or rather your partner's intention, to remain with you in the UK for as much of the 12 months as she can, then the application will be refused for sure. You will need to accept that this is not possible ( I think you are already aware of this), and look for other options.

But there is no way of trying to stay the amount of time that I want, right? So why not just get the 6 month visa if that is the case and save the 300 quid? Really can't see any benefit for anyone for a 12 month long stay visa if all this is true.

I wonder if me studying could fall within one of the three exceptions, if we were legally married. It does mention spouse. I'm no visitor, but why should that make a difference.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I'm not sure what you mean by the three exceptions. What three exceptions ?

As previously explained by theoldgit, long term visas are normally used by people who travel to the UK regularly, perhaps many times a year on short visits. They are not doing what you are hoping to do, and that is to keep your partner in the UK for as long as possible.

When you talk about spouses of students, I think maybe you are looking at spouses of foreign students, not spouses of British citizens. That said, I assume you are a British citizen ? If not, then the situation may be very different.

Tony M

[7by7]

The " 6 in any 12 month rule" was never written into immigration law, but it did used to be in the UKVI guidance for visitors. It no longer exists.

It is still in the Entry Clearance Guidance.

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no restriction on the number of visits a person may make to the UK nor any requirement that a specified time must elapse between successive visits. However, the Immigration Rules state that the applicant must show that they do not intend to live in the UK for extended periods through frequent and successive visits. An ECO must consider the reason for a series of visits with only brief intervals outside the UK between each visit. The ECO must consider the purpose of the visit against the time elapsed between visits and the duration of previous visits to the UK.

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence.

There used to be a similar section in the Immigration Directorate Instructions; but I can't find it.

[7by7]

I have thought about registering her onto a LEVEL 6 course at college. Can anyone suggest a course that has minimal hours, is not expensive and is not too difficult for a none native speaker to complete? A catering course may be most ideal.

She would need to obtain a Tier 4 (General) student visa.

So her first step would be to find an educational establishment on the Register of Sponsors Licensed Under the Points-based System to sponsor her.

Alternatively, she can apply for an 11 month extended Student Visit Visa in order to come to the UK and study English. Again, among the other requirements, she will need to be accepted onto a suitable course from an accepted place of study before she can apply for the visa.

The only other option I can think of is to apply for settlement. But not only is this more expensive (£885) you will also need to meet the financial requirement and, unless you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage outside the UK for at least the past two years, get married.

Note that if she applies for any visa which allows a stay in the UK of more than 6 months she will need a TB certificate.

[KevWaters]

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I'm not sure what you mean by the three exceptions. What three exceptions ?

As previously explained by theoldgit, long term visas are normally used by people who travel to the UK regularly, perhaps many times a year on short visits. They are not doing what you are hoping to do, and that is to keep your partner in the UK for as long as possible.

When you talk about spouses of students, I think maybe you are looking at spouses of foreign students, not spouses of British citizens. That said, I assume you are a British citizen ? If not, then the situation may be very different.

Tony M

well one of them is as follows:

"or not exceeding 12 months in the case of a person seeking entry to accompany an academic visitor (as their child, spouse or partner), provided in the latter case the visitor accompanying the academic visitor has entry clearance "

The above is also included in the link - http://overseaschachi.com/documents/Ukvisitvisa.pdf

How long can I stay in the UK as a visitor?

Visitors can stay in the UK for a maximum of six months at any one time. The only three exceptions to this rule

are Academic Visitors and the parents of children at school who can stay for up to 12 months and please see the

separate section on visitors for private medical treatment

The " 6 in any 12 month rule" was never written into immigration law, but it did used to be in the UKVI guidance for visitors. It no longer exists.

It is still in the Entry Clearance Guidance.

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no restriction on the number of visits a person may make to the UK nor any requirement that a specified time must elapse between successive visits. However, the Immigration Rules state that the applicant must show that they do not intend to live in the UK for extended periods through frequent and successive visits. An ECO must consider the reason for a series of visits with only brief intervals outside the UK between each visit. The ECO must consider the purpose of the visit against the time elapsed between visits and the duration of previous visits to the UK.

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence.

There used to be a similar section in the Immigration Directorate Instructions; but I can't find it.

So if there is no rule and the ECO must only examine the pattern and frequency of the visits does that mean I can apply for 1 one year visa and get it granted? As I can show a good reason for it. 1) Having a son together 2) Studying for 1 year in the UK

Can't really afford to gamble on the 300 + 89 one year Long Term Visa not knowing what they are going to do.

Maybe I'll just wait and see what the Home Office email back. Hopefully wont be waiting too long, need to make a decision about the course soon.

[howerde]

Are you a british citizen?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You are not an academic visitor ( I'm still assuming that you are British). So your partner/wife cannot qualify as the spouse of an academic visitor. Without going into much detail,an academic visitor is basically :

to act as an Academic Visitor but only if

(1) he is an academic who is:

(a) on sabbatical leave from an overseas academic institution to carry out research;

(b ) taking part in formal exchange arrangements with UK counterparts (including doctors);

(c ) coming to share knowledge or experience, or to hold informal discussions with their UK counterparts, or

(d) taking part in a single conference or seminar that is not a commercial or non-profit venture;

(e) an eminent senior doctor or dentist taking part in research, teaching or clinical practice;

Nor is your son at school in the UK. Nor is there any private medical treatment involved in the visit.

To answer your other question(s), you, or rather your partner, can apply for whatever she wants, but she will not be granted a visa that allows her to remain in the UK as a visitor for 12 months. The 3 reasons that you have given, for hoping that a 12 months stay will be granted, are not within the immigration rules.

Tony M

Edited December 30, 2014 by ThaiVisaExpress

[KevWaters]

Are you a british citizen?

Yep

[howerde]

Then the parts you mentioned in red above will not apply to you or british citizens, they are for foreign students to bring spouses etc, i'm afarid there is no visa for someone in your circumstances, that will allow her to stay 12 months, if she wanted to come and study then that would be another route, there is a lot on this, look at the border agencies website.

[KevWaters]

You are not an academic visitor ( I'm still assuming that you are British). So your partner/wife cannot qualify as the spouse of an academic visitor. Without going into much detail,an academic visitor is basically :

to act as an Academic Visitor but only if

(1) he is an academic who is:

(a) on sabbatical leave from an overseas academic institution to carry out research;

(b ) taking part in formal exchange arrangements with UK counterparts (including doctors);

(c ) coming to share knowledge or experience, or to hold informal discussions with their UK counterparts, or

(d) taking part in a single conference or seminar that is not a commercial or non-profit venture;

(e) an eminent senior doctor or dentist taking part in research, teaching or clinical practice;

Nor is your son at school in the UK. Nor is there any private medical treatment involved in the visit.

To answer your other question(s), you, or rather your partner, can apply for whatever she wants, but she will not be granted a visa that allows her to remain in the UK as a visitor for 12 months. The 3 reasons that you have given, for hoping that a 12 months stay will be granted, are not within the immigration rules.

Tony M

I guess I'm &lt;deleted&gt;. Rules just weren't made for people in my situation. Will look at enrolling her on a course, or 1 year old son into nursery school out of desperation.

[7by7]

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence.

(7by7 emphasis)

So if there is no rule and the ECO must only examine the pattern and frequency of the visits does that mean I can apply for 1 one year visa and get it granted? As I can show a good reason for it. 1) Having a son together 2) Studying for 1 year in the UK

You don't apply for anything; you are a British citizen and don't need a visa to enter the UK. It is your partner who applies.

Were your partner to apply for a 1 year visit visa stating that she intends to remain in the UK for the full 12 months she will be refused; the maximum a general or family visitor can remain in the UK for on any one visit is in the rules; it's 6 months. Regardless of the actual term of the visa itself.

Were she to apply for a 1 year visit visa stating that she intends to remain for 6 months, leave and then shortly after return citing the reasons you state then I expect that she would be refused as the ECO would deem her intentions amount to de facto residence.

If she did manage to obtain a 1 year visa, entered the UK, left after 6 months and then shortly after returned I expect that immigration would refuse her entry, as they would deem her intentions amount to de facto residence.

I think this is all academic anyway, unless your partner has previously visited the UK, as she is extremely unlikely to be granted anything longer than 6 months on her first application.

I don't think that enrolling your son in a nursery school will help, as he is a British citizen and so would not be in the UK as a foreign student; so I don't think his mother would be covered as the parent of a child at school.

Which leaves the option of her enrolling on a course and obtaining a Tier 4 Student visa, which will allow her to remain in the UK for the duration of the course, or a Student Visitor visa, which will allow her 11 months in the UK if she is studying English.

You are right; the rules are not designed for people in your, you must accept very rare, situation.

I know that's not what you want to hear; but that's the situation.

Why not do your PGCE course in Thailand? They are available there; see this recent topic for example.

[KevWaters]

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence.

(7by7 emphasis)

So if there is no rule and the ECO must only examine the pattern and frequency of the visits does that mean I can apply for 1 one year visa and get it granted? As I can show a good reason for it. 1) Having a son together 2) Studying for 1 year in the UK

"....Which leaves the option of her enrolling on a course and obtaining a Tier 4 Student visa, which will allow her to remain in the UK for the duration of the course, or a Student Visitor visa, which will allow her 11 months in the UK if she is studying English.

You are right; the rules are not designed for people in your, you must accept very rare, situation.

I know that's not what you want to hear; but that's the situation.

Why not do your PGCE course in Thailand? They are available there; see this recent topic for example."

I've just been looking at the Student Visitor Visa here https://www.gov.uk/study-visit-visa and can see that it is £150 for a 11 month Visa, which is not bad at all.

However, I suspect that the course is crazy expensive.

Can anyone here suggest any courses that would allow such a visa to be granted? Maybe you have foreign friends who have gone over to the UK to study English on budget? The content or course reputation is not important, as long as it will allow the 11 month visa to be granted.

Cheers for the info re. PGCE's in Thailand. I did not know about them beforehand. From my experience most decent schools only accept teachers with recognised QTS from their own Country, and given that the UK funds the course with student loans, and also provides decent bursaries for the more in-demand subjects (such as my option - Primary), it would be far better to go down that route.

[KevWaters]

Here are a list of Universities/ Courses accepted for the Tier 4 Visa but I think they are likely to be too advanced for our purpose, also they cost thousands of pounds from what I can see.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/391741/Tier_4_Register_of_Sponsors_2015-01-05.pdf

So that really only leaves me with the 11 month English as a Foreign Language Course. The Gov website says the following

Where you can study

You must be accepted on a course taught by an organisation that islicensed to sponsor Tier 4 migrants or accredited by one of the following:

• Accreditation UK
• Accreditation Body for Language Services
• British Accreditation Council
• Accreditation Service for International Colleges

Otherwise your course will need to be held at an educational institution listed by one of the following:

• Bridge School Inspectorate
• Education and Training Inspectorate (in Northern Ireland)
• Estyn (in Wales)
• HM Inspectorate of Education (in Scotland)
• Independent Schools Inspectorate
• Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted)
• Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education
• Schools Inspection Service

I've started clicking through looking for suitable courses but this could be a long process.

Can anyone recommend a course that may be acceptable from personal or friends experiences?

[KevWaters]

I had hoped that I could enrol her on an A Level Course or something similar so she would only spend one day a week studying on site, giving her more time to spend with our son. It looks like with the above option she will be studying full-time, which is no good at all. Really hoping for some luck.

[KevWaters]

And as thought the English as a Foreign Language Course is too expensive (below are the fees from Manchester University).

Overseas tuition fees, per year, for entry in the academic year 2014/2015

• English as a Foreign Language: 1 term: £2,500; 2 terms: £4,500, 3 terms: £6,500
• International Foundation Programme (Business or Engineering): £ 8,250
• All other pre-university courses (e.g. A levels, Access): £7,250
• BA Acting for Live & Recorded Media/BA Musical Theatre:£9,725
• All other university level courses (e.g. HND, FdA, FdSc, BA, BSc): £8,725
• Fees for short courses are available from the International Office

When you accept a place at the College, we’ll ask you to pay a deposit. Depending on the course, this will either be £2500 or £3000. We’ll ask you to pay the rest of the fee before the first day of your course. You will not be able to start your course until you have paid your tuition fees. Please note that deposits are not refundable.