Italy rescuing more migrants in Mediterranean

[Lite Beer]

Italy rescuing more migrants in Mediterranean

ROME (AP) — The Italian Air Force is rescuing hundreds of migrants stranded on a cargo ship apparently abandoned in rough seas by smugglers in the Mediterranean.

The Air Force said late Thursday night it sent a helicopter from an air base in southern Italy to help the Ezadeen, a Sierra-Leone-flagged vessel, so Coast Guard officials can be lowered to secure the ship and doctors can also come aboard.

Coast Guard Cmdr. Filippo Marini said early Friday that a migrant had called for help saying: "'we're without crew, we're heading toward the Italian coast and we have no one to steer.'"

Exactly how many were aboard was unclear, but the ANSA news agency said there could be as many as 450. The Ezadeen was some 40 miles (64 kilometers) off Italy's southeastern tip.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-01-02

[peterb17]

The issue of thousands of illegal immigrants across Europe is changing the political landscape in many countries. There is a very significant rise in right wing anti- immigration / Muslim political parties- I see trouble ahead this year.

[maidee]

the only correct way, would be to bring it to north africa and sink the ship

invasion of europe by non christians, how much longer before people get really fed up ?

in some countries, they already took all weapons away from civilians so they cannot fight back

who deceides all this crap ?

but hey, here in thailand, we farang , are we invaders ? are we a burden ?

if we don't have money, we our kicked out, deported, blacklisted ...

[Steely Dan]

For some reason I'm reminded of the song Ship of fools, though I suspect the fools are not the would be economic migrants/vagrants but the idiots who encourage it by denial. It's a shame there is no Island in the middle of the med populated by cannibals, such as PNG where they can be processed.

[7by7]

It is sad, but not unexpected, to see that the usual suspects are showing their lack of compassion for people, many of whom are refugees fleeing for their lives, seeking a better life who have been taken advantage of by unscrupulous people smugglers.

I hope that those posters never find themselves in a similar position.

[Credo]

It is sad, but not unexpected, to see that the usual suspects are showing their lack of compassion for people, many of whom are refugees fleeing for their lives, seeking a better life who have been taken advantage of by unscrupulous people smugglers.

I hope that those posters never find themselves in a similar position.

You mean like some of the people in Thailand who use illegal means and bribery to get a visa?

Oh, no, that's different, isn't it?

[JockPieandBeans]

It is sad, but not unexpected, to see that the usual suspects are showing their lack of compassion for people, many of whom are refugees fleeing for their lives, seeking a better life who have been taken advantage of by unscrupulous people smugglers.

I hope that those posters never find themselves in a similar position.

1. Why do you assume that many of them are refugees fleeing for their lives ? It is more accurate to say that many of them have paid thousands of dollars to people smugglers to get to Europe.

2. When you pay someone for a service. How are they being taken advantage of ?

3. It would probably be a correct statement that the majority of posters here, would never dream of trying to migrate to the places that these people are coming from.

2 boats in the space of 2 days, how many actually make it without too much trouble ?

[Steely Dan]

In scenes reminiscent of the Titanic men sacrificed their own lives to save the women and children.....hang on.

http://10news.dk/ferry-catastrophe-muslims-beat-women-and-children-to-save-themselves/

[7by7]

It is sad, but not unexpected, to see that the usual suspects are showing their lack of compassion for people, many of whom are refugees fleeing for their lives, seeking a better life who have been taken advantage of by unscrupulous people smugglers.

I hope that those posters never find themselves in a similar position.

You mean like some of the people in Thailand who use illegal means and bribery to get a visa?

Oh, no, that's different, isn't it?

Only you know how that compares to being abandoned at sea!

I am not making any excuses for illegal immigrants; wherever they are from, wherever they live, whatever means they used and continue to use to live there.

I am merely saying that these people's lives were put at risk by criminals who cared nothing for their safety and that, whatever their reasons for fleeing to Europe, they should be shown compassion for that reason.

I am not saying that this means they should be immediately allowed into the EU; obviously, like all asylum seekers, they should be processed and their cases assessed.

Yes, they may have paid thousands of dollars to get onto the ship; but this does not mean they are rich. Most may have sold everything they possess to raise that money.

All of which is irrelevant to the issue of feeling compassion toward them; compassion because they thought they were going to a better life only to be abandoned to their fate in very rough seas.

Compassion which is sadly lacking in some members here; some of whom have made it perfectly clear that they think these people should have been left to die.

Maybe those members would have preferred the Italian navy to fire upon and sink the ships concerned rather than rescuing those on board?

[7by7]

In scenes reminiscent of the Titanic men sacrificed their own lives to save the women and children.....hang on.

http://10news.dk/ferry-catastrophe-muslims-beat-women-and-children-to-save-themselves/

A different ship and incident!

The Norman Atlantic is a car ferry which caught fire. She was not carrying refugees and was not abandoned by her crew; indeed, her captain has been praised for remaining on board until all the survivors had been evacuated.

As for your link; yes there was chaos and witness accounts do tell of some men showing scant regard for women and children. But no account other than this woman's says they were 'Iraqi, Turks, Pakistani."

Which begs the questions; how did she know? Maybe in all the chaos she took the time to check their passports!

[simple1]

In scenes reminiscent of the Titanic men sacrificed their own lives to save the women and children.....hang on.

http://10news.dk/ferry-catastrophe-muslims-beat-women-and-children-to-save-themselves/

Although this disaster has been extensively covered and survivors interviewed by main stream news organisation this alleged matter was not reported. Strange this accusation has only been made by one individual, with no other witnesses & seemingly only reported by the usual anti-Muslim web sites.

Getting back to the topic. I believe the people concerned are mainly Syrian seeking a new life. I'm sure people will know there are now around half of the Syrian population are refugees or internally displaced. There were 75,000 people (including an estimated 18,000 civilians) killed in the fighting during 2014. Sure it isn’t the best option to engage with people smugglers, but they don't have many choices other than sitting in refugee camps for god only knows how long.

[Steely Dan]

In scenes reminiscent of the Titanic men sacrificed their own lives to save the women and children.....hang on.

http://10news.dk/ferry-catastrophe-muslims-beat-women-and-children-to-save-themselves/

Although this disaster has been extensively covered and survivors interviewed by main stream news organisation this alleged matter was not reported. Strange this accusation has only been made by one individual, with no other witnesses & seemingly only reported by the usual anti-Muslim web sites.

Getting back to the topic. I believe the people concerned are mainly Syrian seeking a new life. I'm sure people will know there are now around half of the Syrian population are refugees or internally displaced. There were 75,000 people (including an estimated 18,000 civilians) killed in the fighting during 2014. Sure it isn’t the best option to engage with people smugglers, but they don't have many choices other than sitting in refugee camps for god only knows how long.

It was reported by the Mail and Telegraph from memory, I will look for the links to confirm this.

[Scott]

If they are from Syria, they will most likely qualify for refugee status and even if they would have some reason to be excluded, it will be very, very difficult to repatriate them.

[JockPieandBeans]

The police chief of Cosenza province, Luigi Liguori, said each migrant had paid between $4,000 and $8,000 to board the ship.

"We've noticed a change in the make-up of the Syrian refugees on board," he said. "They are socially well off. They wear better clothes and are also better organised and, if you allow me to, they are less desperate than the migrants we normally see."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

Genuine refugees usually escape with what they are wearing and what they can grab and carry.

Edited January 4, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[Scott]

The police chief of Cosenza province, Luigi Liguori, said each migrant had paid between $4,000 and $8,000 to board the ship.

"We've noticed a change in the make-up of the Syrian refugees on board," he said. "They are socially well off. They wear better clothes and are also better organised and, if you allow me to, they are less desperate than the migrants we normally see."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

Genuine refugees usually escape with what they are wearing and what they can grab and carry.

A genuine refugee is not determined by what they are wearing or what they can grab or carry. They are determined based on a well-founded fear of persecution. That persecution may have already started or it may be impending. Some refugees may leave before the persecution begins; some after. Some may be rich, some may be poor. Some may have the opportunity to get belongings and assets out of the country, others may not.

Regardless of what they have or bring with them, they are all losing their home and way of life.

It's not about what they have. It's more about what they lost.

[JockPieandBeans]

The police chief of Cosenza province, Luigi Liguori, said each migrant had paid between $4,000 and $8,000 to board the ship.

"We've noticed a change in the make-up of the Syrian refugees on board," he said. "They are socially well off. They wear better clothes and are also better organised and, if you allow me to, they are less desperate than the migrants we normally see."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

Genuine refugees usually escape with what they are wearing and what they can grab and carry.

A genuine refugee is not determined by what they are wearing or what they can grab or carry. They are determined based on a well-founded fear of persecution. That persecution may have already started or it may be impending. Some refugees may leave before the persecution begins; some after. Some may be rich, some may be poor. Some may have the opportunity to get belongings and assets out of the country, others may not.

Regardless of what they have or bring with them, they are all losing their home and way of life.

It's not about what they have. It's more about what they lost.

When someone has worked with " Genuine " refugees. The difference is clear.

[Scott]

Yes, I know. I worked for the UNHCR and for Refugee Services for several different countries.

[H1w4yR1da]

It's not about what they have. It's more about what they lost.

Paying $8000 shows they really haven't lost much at all.

Let's hope those settled in Europe have means to survive without sponging thousands off the state for their extended families like certain 'clerics' have done in the UK.

[Scott]

The term being used in this op is 'migrants'. Mixed in with this group of people are probably some genuine political refugees. It's a matter of figuring out who is who and that requires screening to determine who should remain and who should be returned.

Some of those coming from places like Syria and Iraq probably can't be returned at this point in time whether they are genuine refugees or not.

[Ulysses G.]

If they are from Syria, they will most likely qualify for refugee status and even if they would have some reason to be excluded, it will be very, very difficult to repatriate them.

I feel genuine sympathy for these people, but I would not want large numbers of them going to my country. I think that the majority of Muslims are decent people, but way too many are zealots that believe in the Qur'an literally. That belief spells nothing but trouble for non-Muslim countries.

[Steely Dan]

The term being used in this op is 'migrants'. Mixed in with this group of people are probably some genuine political refugees. It's a matter of figuring out who is who and that requires screening to determine who should remain and who should be returned.

Some of those coming from places like Syria and Iraq probably can't be returned at this point in time whether they are genuine refugees or not.

I agree, many coming from Syria and Iraq may well be genuine refugees. Christians, Kurds, Yazidis and sometimes Sunni or Shia may find themselves persecuted, depending on who is in control of a given area. The trouble is that those who are genuinely suffering persecution may in turn persecute other groups given a chance. Yazidis have indeed claimed that their former Sunni neighbors were more than willing to aid and abet ISIS in attacking them. It sounds terrible but if I were charged with determining a priority for settling people I would choose those suffering persecution from the most first, which would be Christian, Yazidi, Kurd then finally Sunni and Shia. I wouldn't give any sanctuary though without a thorough compulsory education in democracy and religious pluralism.

[Scott]

Good points and it is important to understand that many refugees stop in a country of first asylum and are screened at that point and then resettlement is decided amongst different countries. Unfortunately, many just head for a particular country.

It is not in any countries interest to be overburdened with people from anywhere. Host countries cannot assimilate huge numbers and provide the services necessary to help them integrate.

Some countries do make distinctions on resettling certain groups over others. An example was some countries took more Vietnamese from North Vietnam and others took more from South Vietnam. The two groups didn't always mix well. I am not aware of issues directly related to religion, but some countries make the decisions internally and it is not widely known why they accept or reject particular refugees.

[Zlabermacht]

the only correct way, would be to bring it to north africa and sink the ship

invasion of europe by non christians, how much longer before people get really fed up ?

in some countries, they already took all weapons away from civilians so they cannot fight back

who deceides all this crap ?

but hey, here in thailand, we farang , are we invaders ? are we a burden ?

if we don't have money, we our kicked out, deported, blacklisted ...

Wait, wait, wait. What are you talking about? Sink the ship? Kill migrants?

[Zlabermacht]

Proud to be Italian this time.

[Scott]

I am hoping that the poster is referring to sinking the boats so that they can't be used for smuggling people, not sinking them to kill everyone.

[JockPieandBeans]

Yes, I know. I worked for the UNHCR and for Refugee Services for several different countries.

Good. Then you should have seen 1st hand what a Genuine refugee is, and what a chancer is that can afford to pay between 4 - 8k to people traffickers.

[7by7]

Being well off does not stop one from being persecuted and in fear of one's life.

Many Jews fleeing Nazi Germany were well off and paid large amounts to get away. Were they chancers?

[simple1]

Yes, I know. I worked for the UNHCR and for Refugee Services for several different countries.

Good. Then you should have seen 1st hand what a Genuine refugee is, and what a chancer is that can afford to pay between 4 - 8k to people traffickers.

I believe it has been mentioned that access to sufficient funds to pay for people smugglers does not determine if an individual is a genuine refugee / asylum seeker or not.

I would be interested to know if someone you knew was in a similar situation to many from the likes of Syria whether you would assist them to gain refuge via people sumugglers or would you be OK for them to sit in some forlorn refugee camp for years whilst waiting to be processed by UNHCR. Scott can correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the average waiting time to be resettled via UNHCR is ten years or more. There is no such thing as an orderly sequential queue in the refugee camps as other disasters / conflicts can easily be priortised over those waiting - in some cases waiting 20+ years.

Edited January 5, 2015 by simple1

[Scott]

The time spent in refugee camps varies greatly and depends on the area, the conflict and numerous other factors. There is a push factor (the conditions in the home country) and a pull factor (the hope of resettlement) that affect the number of people who leave. In many cases, the people in camps are considered to be displaced persons and not eligible for resettlement. The hope is that once the conflict dies down, they can return.

I would be very, very hesitant to advise anyone to use the people smuggler route. In addition to the expense, there are some very, very bad things that happen to people being smuggled.

I can't site the source, but of the Vietnamese who headed to Thailand only 40% arrived. 60% died at sea or were killed by pirates.

Life in the camps is not good, but it is usually safe. There is food, shelter, medical care and educational facilities.

[Scott]

One of the big differences is that when you are screened outside the resettlement country they are ready for you when you arrive. There may be language classes, cultural classes, housing and job opportunities. Arriving unannounced can be as bad as waiting in the camps.