I Have Been Offered Land For Set Up Rubber Tree Plantation In Issan.

[50cruff]

Dear members

If I said i had not a scrap of knowledge about farming, I would be understating my abilities to farm. No , I am not a farmer.

Instead,I will be relying on dad. Dad was upper level local gov officer in Agriculture dept(now retired and ready to work again), he has great local knowlegable of Areas all around Buri Ram up to the Cambodia Border. He is entirely trustworthy and likeable and we get on fine.

Also, I am married to his daughter.!!

Dad knows we are quite a busy married couple, with other interests and jobs and doing good but we have asked him to shop around for land to buy.

We want rubber trees, because we are prepared to wait while they grow, as a long term investment for the kids education. And I think land held over the long term will appreciate, but by how much in 15 years , who knows. Hopefully, it will achieve at least inflation increases. and fund the kids education as needed.

Here is the first deal he has found. At 25,000 baht /Rai he has asked me to look at 200 Rai, near main road, 15 kilo out of and around Baan Kruat, which is 50k south of Buri Ram, close to border. Currently planted with "eucalyptus", he is suggesting Resow with Rubber Trees and wait 6 years. He says the labour and sowing he will supervise himself and not expensive, and annual maintenace is modest. If rubber price grow over the years and track inflation, seems OK If not, we've wasted 6 years.

I am being open when I say I am being guided by my Thai family, who I feel are trustworthy and have the future generation of our children at heart. We are proposing to place the land into a company, with me minor stakeholder along with children and stakeholders and wife,and if successful will add more land. My lawyer says I will be the sole signature on the account. Its very much a close family thing and there are no issues or problems doing it this way, beause we want to increase the land and company with purchases over time. We have settled the question of ownersip and control already.

I would a ppreciate members questions and comments related or similar to the proposed purchase and use of land. I am looking at it in a week. Thank you all.

[teletiger]

Firstly Cruff, 25,000 Baht per rai seems cheap for a Euca' plantation. What deed is it? pob a tor? Tob a tor? If it's Sob a gor hard ( registered with the government ) it will be impossible to get it registered in your wifes name. Go to the land laws thread on this forum.

So, it's 200 rai of eucalyptus. How old is it? Mature euca' fetches 800/1000 Baht per ton. In the 6 years you wait for rubber trees to produce, the Euca' could double or treble in weight and you've spent nothing. Replanting 200 rai is no small job. The euca' has got to be cut down, chopped up and hauled away. It will take a macro, maybe 40 days to remove the stumps, @1,500 Baht per day. Stumps and debris will need to be burned. Maybe plough and fertilise the whole site, @ 400/500 per rai. Buy 80,000+ rubber trees. 15/20 Baht per seedling? + labour. Irrigation system? If it's a kosher deal and just for investment, I'd leave the eucalyptus in.

Regards

[50cruff]

Dear teletiger

You sound like a man with local knowledge and I am grateful for your input. If its a kosher deal , then dad has really pulled one off .

I am going to see the property next week and will be able to examine and photo the land. I think all matters will be sorted out and once again thanks for the advice, and I will keep the forum posted on my findings.

Thanks.

[z21rhd]

Dear teletiger

You sound like a man with local knowledge and I am grateful for your input. If its a kosher deal , then dad has really pulled one off .

I am going to see the property next week and will be able to examine and photo the land. I think all matters will be sorted out and once again thanks for the advice, and I will keep the forum posted on my findings.

Thanks.

Teletiger hits the nail VERY squarely on the head.

A couple of issues to consider :-

1) Rubber trees grown from seedlings (ie. those that are offered for sale in Isaan) are being rejected by Thai farmers because it has been found that they do not develop to expected potential. Best are plants that are from grafted stock.

2) If you look forward some 15 years, to the time when the tree should be producing sufficient latex- you shouldn't be surprised to find that collecting latex and managing the process is extraordinarily dirty. Working at night, eaten by mozzies and to add insult to injury as a primary producer getting a pittance for you labour.

3) A visit to a productive plantation (i.e : south of 8 degrees latitude) may convince you that growing rubber trees is a form of slavery and not something to look forward to. Certainly you won't find bird or animal life, rubber plantations are useless habitats for Thailand's fauna.

[Rinrada]

One for the experts and on the same subject...wot about coco nuts?

K.Wife has just been talking to our new gardeners in C.M.and she tells me that they have now planted the last of 200 coco-nut ..trees-bushes..wotever you call them and I just wonder how they will fare half way up the mountain?

Like most of us I remember long lazy hazy days sitting under them on some golden beach somewhere...West Africa,South Pacific,South America,Blackpool etc.but apart from having to dodge them when they fall down and haven eaten them in a curry I dont recall given too much thought about the humble nut.

We already have lots of the other stuff...Pineapple,Mango,Bananas,Jack fruit,Lam Yai and even some man farang-King Eddies (planted last year) but CoCos Nuts.....mai CoCo jai.

Good thread...

[Issangeorge]

Dear 50 Cruff, Here is a site with a rubber plantation for sale in Nong Khai, it will give you an idea of prices. Issangeorge

http://www.udonrealestate.com/30004.asp

[chownah]

50cruff,

Be sure to check into the availability of water for irrigation. Try to find out about any wells in the neighborhood...how deep they are...how much water do they produce...and if the water is totally fresh or is it slightly brakish. In a dry climate brakish water will work for a few years but eventually it will create salt buildup. In some areas of Isaan it is hard to get fresh water since the underlying geology of alot of Isaan is salt deposits from an ancient sea bed.

Chownah

[z21rhd]

Dear 50 Cruff, Here is a site with a rubber plantation for sale in Nong Khai, it will give you an idea of prices. Issangeorge

http://www.udonrealestate.com/30004.asp

50Cruff, Issangeorge,

Possibly, Comparing the

200 rai land currently planted with eucalyptus @ 25,000 baht /Rai 50k south of Buri Ram.

with the

37.5 rai land planted with rubber trees @ 53,300 baht/Rai near Nong Khai.

is like comparing a Ford Mustang with a series 2 Land Rover - ie.. 2 very different animals

An interestin article on the effects of Eucalyptus cultivation on water and land resources can be found at http://www.unu.edu/unupress/unupbooks/80a03e/80A03E0b.htm

[RamdomChances]

If it's got eucalyptus on it now it's going to need extensive fertilisation as they suck all the nutriants out of the ground. As an example nitrogen at 50kg/rai will set you back 600bhat/rai

A digger (macro) to get the stumps out is going to cost you 1000+Bhat an hour, might be worth buying a second hand one and selling it later.

Your costs for actually getting the land ready for planting could run to another couple of mill, then you have to wait a minimum of 6 years while it is still costing you for mantinance, fertiliser ect before any return. What is the market for rubber going to be like in 6 years time ? Once they are in it's not really easy to change over to something else.

Personaly with that sort of investment, I'd be looking for something else, with 200 rai even growing "mainstream" crops will make you a decent return, starting at the next harvest

[jay-uk]

Hey Cruff'

Here's another take on matters. 5,000,000 hard earned THB is what you are proposing to speculate on your childrens future. My advice, be master of your own destiny and do not leave that sort of money tied up in the hands of thais whether family or not. If you stick that on deposit at a nominal 5% each year you will make 25,000 THB per annum in interest without lifting a finger and it certainly would not be lost by family or a failed project that way. Over fifteen years compounding interest in a bank it will earn in excess of 3.75 million THB. A nice tidy guaranteed sum of money for your kids future rather than blind speculation. I would leave it secure and safe for your kids in a bank rather than trusting someone elses endeavours will pay off in the long term. I'll take my bank manager over thai family any day. For the record my wife is thai also and her family are farmers but where money's concerned they rarely have a clue mate!

Regards,

Jay

[sibeymai]

you'd be better growing teak than rubber. 20 years to harvest and around USD2,000 per cubic metre at today's prices. About 350 trees per rai. Should be at least 1 cubic metre from a 15-20 metre tree. Do the sums.

[utapaortnab]

Perhaps my Dutch friend Harry Nijpels [email protected] could shed some light on rubber tree plantations. He has recently started up some of his own in Chiayaphum Province. He might be able to give you some advise on the profitability and maybe the workload required to make a rubber tree plantation work.

Ken Bower

Chiayaphum Thailand

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear members

If I said i had not a scrap of knowledge about farming, I would be understating my abilities to farm. No , I am not a farmer.

Instead,I will be relying on dad. Dad was upper level local gov officer in Agriculture dept(now retired and ready to work again), he has great local knowlegable of Areas all around Buri Ram up to the Cambodia Border. He is entirely trustworthy and likeable and we get on fine.

Also, I am married to his daughter.!!

Dad knows we are quite a busy married couple, with other interests and jobs and doing good but we have asked him to shop around for land to buy.

We want rubber trees, because we are prepared to wait while they grow, as a long term investment for the kids education. And I think land held over the long term will appreciate, but by how much in 15 years , who knows. Hopefully, it will achieve at least inflation increases. and fund the kids education as needed.

Here is the first deal he has found. At 25,000 baht /Rai he has asked me to look at 200 Rai, near main road, 15 kilo out of and around Baan Kruat, which is 50k south of Buri Ram, close to border. Currently planted with "eucalyptus", he is suggesting Resow with Rubber Trees and wait 6 years. He says the labour and sowing he will supervise himself and not expensive, and annual maintenace is modest. If rubber price grow over the years and track inflation, seems OK If not, we've wasted 6 years.

I am being open when I say I am being guided by my Thai family, who I feel are trustworthy and have the future generation of our children at heart. We are proposing to place the land into a company, with me minor stakeholder along with children and stakeholders and wife,and if successful will add more land. My lawyer says I will be the sole signature on the account. Its very much a close family thing and there are no issues or problems doing it this way, beause we want to increase the land and company with purchases over time. We have settled the question of ownersip and control already.

I would a ppreciate members questions and comments related or similar to the proposed purchase and use of land. I am looking at it in a week. Thank you all.

[50cruff]

I want to thank all the members for their advice. i am grateful to all of you for your comments, and I will be adding to this topic next week, after I have seen the land.

[timber]

Teletiger said some pretty interesting stuff. Not sure if you have to remove the stumps but have to treat them at the least. Again need to check out how well the Eucalyptus is growing and how old the plantation is. There is some mention of the leaves of the Eucalyptus making the soil toxic in the thread by z21rhd. There seem to be definite problems following up a Eucalyptus plantation. They deplete the land. You would definitly have to do a major fertilization. At 25,000 per rai down south you could make a lot of money on a rubber tree plantation. They have the moisture. Rubber trees need a reasonable amount of moisture. Being Issan I would assume you don't have the rainfall. In which case a drip system would take care of both of the problems with water and fertilizer. My in-laws have rubber trees and they work hard but make good money. You would be hiring someone for every 10 rai or so to look after the rubber processing and would probably give them 40% or so of the take.of prices. I would look for examples of people growing rubber in Issan, and see how much they are making. Can make less than down south if you pay 25,000 per rai but not a lot less. If they are selling for 25,000 per rai maybe the eucalyptus is not doing all that well or is young and doesn't want to wait for the pay day.

[teletiger]

Timber,

The problem with Eucalyptus is that it will keep growing from the stumps. You will need to treat the stumps with some pretty toxic stuff to kill them off. I suspect that Cruff will be met with 200 rai of stumps, which would explain the cheap price. This would not be a problem, as I said the euca' just keeps growing. He will need to trim all but the strongest sapling on each stump, sit back and watch it re-grow.

regards

[David006]

Firstly Cruff, 25,000 Baht per rai seems cheap for a Euca' plantation. What deed is it? pob a tor? Tob a tor? If it's Sob a gor hard ( registered with the government ) it will be impossible to get it registered in your wifes name. Go to the land laws thread on this forum.

So, it's 200 rai of eucalyptus. How old is it? Mature euca' fetches 800/1000 Baht per ton. In the 6 years you wait for rubber trees to produce, the Euca' could double or treble in weight and you've spent nothing. Replanting 200 rai is no small job. The euca' has got to be cut down, chopped up and hauled away. It will take a macro, maybe 40 days to remove the stumps, @1,500 Baht per day. Stumps and debris will need to be burned. Maybe plough and fertilise the whole site, @ 400/500 per rai. Buy 80,000+ rubber trees. 15/20 Baht per seedling? + labour. Irrigation system? If it's a kosher deal and just for investment, I'd leave the eucalyptus in.

Regards

80,000+ trees on 200 rai ? Typo?

[David48]

Hey David ... that's a 6 year old thread you've dragged up?

[Livinginexile]

It would be interesting to read the update from the OP.

Did he buy, did he plant, he would be on his first harvest now.

50Cruff....are you out there?