Daughter warned that family may commit suicide, mother says

[Bluespunk]

@blue spunk

A good thing would be free housing and free food (really basic in big buildings made for this). Not giving money of course. This way there would always be food and shelter for people. Just the basics and nothing more.

I can live with that and feel ok paying taxes for it, once it becomes too easy to enter and too good too have you will have abuse. So just the basics.

In this case the family would then have food and shelter. Giving out free money (especially in Thailand where its hard to check if people have money / are making money) would be totally wrong and abused a lot.

Back where I come from where everything is registered its easier to give money but still with some people working without paying taxes they still might have 2 income streams then.

Just because people abuse a system is no reason not to have it.

Prosecute those that do wrong as in every other sphere of society.

On an off topic aside. I do not appreciate in any way, shape or form your use of my user name.

I believe it is against forum rules.

It's certainly discourteous.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[robblok]

@blue spunk

A good thing would be free housing and free food (really basic in big buildings made for this). Not giving money of course. This way there would always be food and shelter for people. Just the basics and nothing more.

I can live with that and feel ok paying taxes for it, once it becomes too easy to enter and too good too have you will have abuse. So just the basics.

In this case the family would then have food and shelter. Giving out free money (especially in Thailand where its hard to check if people have money / are making money) would be totally wrong and abused a lot.

Back where I come from where everything is registered its easier to give money but still with some people working without paying taxes they still might have 2 income streams then.

Just because people abuse a system is no reason not to have it.

Prosecute those that do wrong as in every other sphere of society.

That is just not cost effective.. they steal money from the system but can't pay it back. Plus the checks to check everyone would be far too expensive.

That is why I am for a real basic system that just helps for food and housing. Especially here you can't check a thing. I am an accountant and I know all about fraud and how hard it can be to check afterwards. So its better to prevent it.

But you obviously have not much experience in this field, else you would know that giving money in Thailand would never work. The grey economy is far to big and its far to easy to put possessions on an other ones name. What we have in the west would never ever work here because of the size of the informal economy that cant be checked.

Only a well regulated well administered country has some chance to stop fraud and even then there is a lot of fraud. To introduce anything but basic stuff in Thailand will never work.

[Bluespunk]

@blue spunk

A good thing would be free housing and free food (really basic in big buildings made for this). Not giving money of course. This way there would always be food and shelter for people. Just the basics and nothing more.

I can live with that and feel ok paying taxes for it, once it becomes too easy to enter and too good too have you will have abuse. So just the basics.

In this case the family would then have food and shelter. Giving out free money (especially in Thailand where its hard to check if people have money / are making money) would be totally wrong and abused a lot.

Back where I come from where everything is registered its easier to give money but still with some people working without paying taxes they still might have 2 income streams then.

Just because people abuse a system is no reason not to have it.

Prosecute those that do wrong as in every other sphere of society.

That is just not cost effective.. they steal money from the system but can't pay it back. Plus the checks to check everyone would be far too expensive.

That is why I am for a real basic system that just helps for food and housing. Especially here you can't check a thing. I am an accountant and I know all about fraud and how hard it can be to check afterwards. So its better to prevent it.

But you obviously have not much experience in this field, else you would know that giving money in Thailand would never work. The grey economy is far to big and its far to easy to put possessions on an other ones name. What we have in the west would never ever work here because of the size of the informal economy that cant be checked.

Only a well regulated well administered country has some chance to stop fraud and even then there is a lot of fraud. To introduce anything but basic stuff in Thailand will never work.

Don't agree with you.

All these problems can be overcome.

[robblok]

@blue spunk

A good thing would be free housing and free food (really basic in big buildings made for this). Not giving money of course. This way there would always be food and shelter for people. Just the basics and nothing more.

I can live with that and feel ok paying taxes for it, once it becomes too easy to enter and too good too have you will have abuse. So just the basics.

In this case the family would then have food and shelter. Giving out free money (especially in Thailand where its hard to check if people have money / are making money) would be totally wrong and abused a lot.

Back where I come from where everything is registered its easier to give money but still with some people working without paying taxes they still might have 2 income streams then.

Just because people abuse a system is no reason not to have it.

Prosecute those that do wrong as in every other sphere of society.

That is just not cost effective.. they steal money from the system but can't pay it back. Plus the checks to check everyone would be far too expensive.

That is why I am for a real basic system that just helps for food and housing. Especially here you can't check a thing. I am an accountant and I know all about fraud and how hard it can be to check afterwards. So its better to prevent it.

But you obviously have not much experience in this field, else you would know that giving money in Thailand would never work. The grey economy is far to big and its far to easy to put possessions on an other ones name. What we have in the west would never ever work here because of the size of the informal economy that cant be checked.

Only a well regulated well administered country has some chance to stop fraud and even then there is a lot of fraud. To introduce anything but basic stuff in Thailand will never work.

Don't agree with you.

All these problems can be overcome.

Good luck with that.. you have no idea.. and no practical experience in the field your talking about. Would love to see your qualifications.

[Bluespunk]

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.

[inaugural Address, January 20 1961]

John F. Kennedy"

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[robblok]

Humor me and give a solution for the following (in Thailand):

Someone pretends to be poor says he has no income

He does in reality have income by doing odd jobs and gets paid in cash

Now don't say put a controller on it.. because that would be far from cost effective as he would need to follow this guy for days and see money be handed over and making a case.

The guy handing over the money can deduct the expenses (where I am from it would not be possible as it would have to go through some salary system or invoices should be generated) This is why there is almost no black money. So where I am from its prevented for a large part that the guy paying cant deduct it anymore and it should stay off the books. Only in a country where cash transactions are almost gone and things are administered properly does it work.

That is not Thailand.

[Bluespunk]

Humor me and give a solution for the following (in Thailand):

Someone pretends to be poor says he has no income

He does in reality have income by doing odd jobs and gets paid in cash

Now don't say put a controller on it.. because that would be far from cost effective as he would need to follow this guy for days and see money be handed over and making a case.

The guy handing over the money can deduct the expenses (where I am from it would not be possible as it would have to go through some salary system or invoices should be generated) This is why there is almost no black money. So where I am from its prevented for a large part that the guy paying cant deduct it anymore and it should stay off the books. Only in a country where cash transactions are almost gone and things are administered properly does it work.

That is not Thailand.

It can be done.

Won't be easy but that is no reason not to do it.

And yes there will be abuse.

I'd rather have that though if it prevents tragedies like this.

Also, anyone doing odd jobs for cash is still poor.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[robblok]

Humor me and give a solution for the following (in Thailand):

Someone pretends to be poor says he has no income

He does in reality have income by doing odd jobs and gets paid in cash

Now don't say put a controller on it.. because that would be far from cost effective as he would need to follow this guy for days and see money be handed over and making a case.

The guy handing over the money can deduct the expenses (where I am from it would not be possible as it would have to go through some salary system or invoices should be generated) This is why there is almost no black money. So where I am from its prevented for a large part that the guy paying cant deduct it anymore and it should stay off the books. Only in a country where cash transactions are almost gone and things are administered properly does it work.

That is not Thailand.

It can be done.

Won't be easy but that is no reason not to do it.

And yes there will be abuse.

I'd rather have that though if it prevents tragedies like this.

As i thought.. no practical solution.. only to say it can be done. So it can't be done if easy you would have given an answer already.

That is where education and experience in the field beats posters without knowledge but good intentions.

[Bluespunk]

Humor me and give a solution for the following (in Thailand):

Someone pretends to be poor says he has no income

He does in reality have income by doing odd jobs and gets paid in cash

Now don't say put a controller on it.. because that would be far from cost effective as he would need to follow this guy for days and see money be handed over and making a case.

The guy handing over the money can deduct the expenses (where I am from it would not be possible as it would have to go through some salary system or invoices should be generated) This is why there is almost no black money. So where I am from its prevented for a large part that the guy paying cant deduct it anymore and it should stay off the books. Only in a country where cash transactions are almost gone and things are administered properly does it work.

That is not Thailand.

It can be done.

Won't be easy but that is no reason not to do it.

And yes there will be abuse.

I'd rather have that though if it prevents tragedies like this.

As i thought.. no practical solution.. only to say it can be done. So it can't be done if easy you would have given an answer already.

That is where education and experience in the field beats posters without knowledge but good intentions.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."

[inaugural Address, January 20 1961]

John F. Kennedy

Expert enough for you?

Also enough of the "good intentions but no knowledge" patronising condescension.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[robblok]

Humor me and give a solution for the following (in Thailand):

Someone pretends to be poor says he has no income

He does in reality have income by doing odd jobs and gets paid in cash

Now don't say put a controller on it.. because that would be far from cost effective as he would need to follow this guy for days and see money be handed over and making a case.

The guy handing over the money can deduct the expenses (where I am from it would not be possible as it would have to go through some salary system or invoices should be generated) This is why there is almost no black money. So where I am from its prevented for a large part that the guy paying cant deduct it anymore and it should stay off the books. Only in a country where cash transactions are almost gone and things are administered properly does it work.

That is not Thailand.

It can be done.

Won't be easy but that is no reason not to do it.

And yes there will be abuse.

I'd rather have that though if it prevents tragedies like this.

As i thought.. no practical solution.. only to say it can be done. So it can't be done if easy you would have given an answer already.

That is where education and experience in the field beats posters without knowledge but good intentions.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."

[inaugural Address, January 20 1961]

John F. Kennedy

Expert enough for you?

Also enough of the "good intentions but no knowledge" patronising condescension.

The truth huts does it not.. I gave you an chance to prove you knew what you were talking about and come with a solution. You had no idea, don't blame me then.

If you have any more hollow statements please post them but it does not change the fact that you have no solution for what i know is the problem.

Just posting it can be done.. crazy. You have absolutely no idea how things work, I do and gave you a chance.. pointed to the problems. If I have no idea about building a house id listen to those with experience .. unlike you who does not listen to those in the know.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=8758

Here Kennedy about welfare. he is like me for prevention and rehabilitation and not a welfare state

Edited January 4, 2015 by robblok

[Bluespunk]

@robblok (see how easy it is to use a user name correctly)

You have no idea about my background or experience. It is laughable that you see your free market demagoguery as some sort of expertise.

Nothing you say is the truth, just political ideology. That of an uncaring Dickensian society. That of misery, poverty, blind indifference and no concern about those in need.

Tell me how a welfare state would not have helped these people. Tell me how their poverty was for the better of society. Tell me how no support helped them.

Sleep well.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[bendejo]

occidental: give me the money or I'll kill you

oriental: give me the money or I'll kill myself

[robblok]

@robblok (see how easy it is to use a user name correctly)

You have no idea about my background or experience. It is laughable that you see your free market demagoguery as some sort of expertise.

Nothing you say is the truth, just political ideology. That of an uncaring Dickensian society. That of misery, poverty, blind indifference and no concern about those in need.

Tell me how a welfare state would not have helped these people. Tell me how their poverty was for the better of society. Tell me how no support helped them.

Sleep well.

sorry if i got your username wrong. That was 100% unintentional.

I gave you a chance to prove yourself by coming up with a solution. I am an expert here on accounting and have studied fraud. I know the weaknesses in the system I know how the tax-office looks for fraud. I know what is needed to check and in what situations (Thai situation) it won't work. I have given you an example and you could not come up with a solution (as i thought) so that proves you have no idea what your talking about. Here in Thailand its too easy to make money off the record and without any trace of it. That is the reason why the system won't work. There will be too many freeloaders and abuse and then the system will collapse because of lack of support and the price of it (of course the freeloaders would support it)

A welfare state would have helped these people no doubt about that, but at what cost. Here its impossible to introduce this because of the risk of fraud and the problem that there is almost no tax base here. (look it up how bad the tax base is in Thailand again that is because of the large informal of the record economy). Just wishing that something is possible is not going to make it possible.

My plan on the other hand, to give just food and housing (basic life necessities) would attract a lot less freeloaders and would be easier to check and more affordable. It would also have saved them as they would always have food and shelter.

[Bluespunk]

@robblok (see how easy it is to use a user name correctly)

You have no idea about my background or experience. It is laughable that you see your free market demagoguery as some sort of expertise.

Nothing you say is the truth, just political ideology. That of an uncaring Dickensian society. That of misery, poverty, blind indifference and no concern about those in need.

Tell me how a welfare state would not have helped these people. Tell me how their poverty was for the better of society. Tell me how no support helped them.

Sleep well.

sorry if i got your username wrong. That was 100% unintentional.

I gave you a chance to prove yourself by coming up with a solution. I am an expert here on accounting and have studied fraud. I know the weaknesses in the system I know how the tax-office looks for fraud. I know what is needed to check and in what situations (Thai situation) it won't work. I have given you an example and you could not come up with a solution (as i thought) so that proves you have no idea what your talking about. Here in Thailand its too easy to make money off the record and without any trace of it. That is the reason why the system won't work. There will be too many freeloaders and abuse and then the system will collapse because of lack of support and the price of it (of course the freeloaders would support it)

A welfare state would have helped these people no doubt about that, but at what cost. Here its impossible to introduce this because of the risk of fraud and the problem that there is almost no tax base here. (look it up how bad the tax base is in Thailand again that is because of the large informal of the record economy). Just wishing that something is possible is not going to make it possible.

My plan on the other hand, to give just food and housing (basic life necessities) would attract a lot less freeloaders and would be easier to check and more affordable. It would also have saved them as they would always have food and shelter.

Accountant, explains things.

Fraud happens everywhere and that is what the law is for. To root it out and punish it.

The welfare state is to help those who need the help.

Ever done social work?

Ever worked in communities where the free loaders and scroungers live? Elderly and young alike living in conditions no one should endure.

Ever worked with young offenders whose whole life has been poverty, envy and a sense of hopelessness?

Ever seen what happens when there is no one and nothing to support you?

The welfare state is a necessity and a moral obligation on a society that allows poverty.

Welfare states don't give an easy life for those who rely on it.

There is no luxury there.

No one searches it out.

[45slap]

Terrible.

[peecee]

I am at loss for words.....

This is so very sad.

R.I.P

Sadly snap!

[wolfmanjack]

@bluespunk,

Good solution would be that those in favor of welfare have to finance it. Those that are not don't have to pay into it but are also not allowed to use it.

Sounds real fair to me. Then people with high morals like you could support your cause while others who don't see it for a good thing just don't.

Its always easy to tell people what to do but once it cost them money they often change their mind.

Nope.

Awful solution.

Of course.. because then it would cost you money instead of deciding how other peoples money has to be spend.

Its always easier to do good and let others pay the bill instead of paying it yourself.

You made my point.. your not willing to finance your idea's but want others to pay for it.

Easy solution.

Just consider your tax $$$ to go to government programs you agree with and other's tax $$$ to go to programs they agree with.