Swedes rally in support of mosques after arson attacks

[ATF]

Sirpia, on 05 Jan 2015 - 11:55, said:

ATF, on 05 Jan 2015 - 10:22, said:

The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah.

Please show evidence of this.

Thanks.

The Qur'anic Attitude towards those who do not believe its message

The Qur'an has a wide range of imagery and insults for those who refuse to believe in Islam. They are likened to cattle (camels, cows, sheep), a goat-herd, dogs, asses, etc. (cf. Surah 25:44, 2:171, 7:175-177, 62:5), but in some passages it is much worse than that:

According to the Koran, a non-Muslim is less than nothing: "To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:33). And, since the Muslims are realists, they take into account circumstances and make, accordingly, temporary peace or war: "Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:35).

In a word, as the Koran is the word of Allah for all Muslims, it holds for all times and all peoples until the end of the world. It must be applied according to the indications that Allah himself gives to his believers. This logically explains what is today happening in the Sudan, in Algeria, and in numerous Islamic countries. To idealize Islam is the greatest wrong that one can do to the Muslims themselves.

(Source: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/reals.htm)

The statement that "Unbelievers are worse than the viles beasts" is topped yet again by another verse:

Those who reject (Truth) among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will abide in hell-fire, they are the worst of creatures. (Sura 98:6)

The worst of anything God ever created, whether it be the unclean pigs, or bacteria, cancer cells or the AIDS virus. Unbelievers, even those among the People of the Book, are worse than that.

The Qur'an breeds contempt for anyone who is not a Muslim. If statements like this would be printed anywhere outside of the Qur'an, the authors would be dragged before the courts for hate-speech.

The consequence of such statements quickly is: If such people are not really human beings, but are on a level of wild and vile beasts, then you do not need to treat them as human beings. Psychologically it is the same dynamic as used by Nazi Germany in regard to the Jews. First calling them sub-human (to remove the barrier that is naturally in every person's conscience against killing another human being), and then seeking to eradicate them.

No problem.

[DiamondKing]

I personally do not know any bad farangs in Thailand, that is why I do not protest or denounce them.

The ones I do know have integrated fairly well into the Thai way of life.

I had the decency to answer.

Now you try the same.

Those Muslims also don't know the bad ones, that is the whole point im trying to make. They don't know them personally and they don't want to meet them.

Ill give you an other example.. you might get it or not in the Netherlands and Uk we have / had football hooligans.. they did a lot of damage. I have yet to see normal soccer fans denounce them. Why.. because they are not the same group. Same as you and me and bad farangs.

You just group all the Muslims together and say only way to be good is denounce the bad ones that you don't know. Give them the same chance you give yourself by saying I don't know them and or am not connected to them so I don't have to denounce them.

Ohhh, the so called "good Muslims" know who the "bad Muslims" are for sure. In Indonesia alone, about 19 million (about one in ten) Muslims back violent jihad. These people are a menace to society. After spending about 2-1/2 years, working in Afghanistan, I came to the conclusion, the Muslim religion is the largest Satanic cult in the world.

Here is a quote from the Quran to ponder. "Take not the Jews nor the Christians as your friends or protectors." "Slay the idolaters where you find them. Take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in ambush." Not exactly who I would want for a next door neighbor.

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

I see the bible has as much tolerance as the koran.

the difference is and you seem to be ommiting the fact that

PEOPLE WHO READ THE BIBLE DO NOT ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE READINGS LITERALLY MEANING THEY DO NOT KILL IN 2015 AS OPPOSED TO MUSLIMS WHO TAKE THE READINGS OF THE QUARAN LITERALLY AND KILL THOUSANDS

[DiamondKing]

Here a protest from Muslims in France against ISIS, called for by the head of the largest mosque in France. But of course people will say its not enough.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/

Of course its NOT ENOUGH when you see the comparison to their protests when someone draws a cartoon of their Prophet or in support of Palestine

The difference is huge and all these good muslims you keep mentioning are out there on the street demonstrating about a stupid cartoon BUT NOTHING for acts of terror in the name of their religion SORRY its clear for ANY NORMAL PERSON who does not have their head stuck up their ass which side these people really support.

[Sirpia]

Not including the hysterical commentator, the links you provided don't say what you declared.

"http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get.cgi?version=pickthall&searchstring=25:44;+2:171;7:175-177;62:5"

The commentator you gain your 'facts' from: "The worst of anything God ever created, whether it be the unclean pigs, or bacteria, cancer cells or the AIDS virus. Unbelievers, even those among the People of the Book, are worse than that."

Amazing. The koran knew about AIDS and cancer a millenium before anyone else.

why people lap up such claptrap is amazing, really.

[jacky54]

I never claimed Mohamad stating he wanted all Jews and Chritians out was in the koran, it's in the haddith, seems to have had his prayers answered

Sahih Muslim lived 817-874 CE - long after Mohammed died in 632 CE. Given the evidence of the Koran that Mohammed was perfectly happy to have Jews and Christians living in Arabia and paying jizya, doesn't the hadith seem a little suspect to you? It was written after the decision was made by the second caliph to expel all non-Moslems and seemingly "justifies" his actions.

where in the koran does it say mohamad was happy to have Jews and Christians living in Arabia? at first maybe until he was powerful enough to persecute them. The koran was written after mohamad died as well and the one today has parts missing because oral relaters forgot some of it. Some versions of the koran were gathered up and burned.

You claimed it was a myth and a made up story clearly it is not and it's quite clear also that Islam is a Jew hating ideology that would still hate jews even if there were no Israel.

Edited January 5, 2015 by jacky54

[ATF]

Sirpia, on 05 Jan 2015 - 12:20, said:

Not including the hysterical commentator, the links you provided don't say what you declared.

"http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get.cgi?version=pickthall&searchstring=25:44;+2:171;7:175-177;62:5"

The commentator you gain your 'facts' from: "The worst of anything God ever created, whether it be the unclean pigs, or bacteria, cancer cells or the AIDS virus. Unbelievers, even those among the People of the Book, are worse than that."

Amazing. The koran knew about AIDS and cancer a millenium before anyone else.

why people lap up such claptrap is amazing, really.

8:55

to top

Sahih International

Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

[monkeycountry]

It makes little sense to compare the bible and the koran.

Many muslims wage war and commit various crimes in the name of Allah (the koran), and many muslims follow the koran in general, even as their law.

Very few christians fight or commit crimes in the name of god (the bible), and few christians follow the bible in general. Noone considers the bible above the law.

Sure, many westerners/christians wage wars and commit crimes, but it almost never has anything to do with god and the bible.

My point is, it doesn't matter what is written in the bible as noone reads it or follows it (anymore), whereas many muslims read and follow the koran, which therefore has a great impact on their lives and actions.

[NeverSure]

[Sirpia]

Those Muslims also don't know the bad ones, that is the whole point im trying to make. They don't know them personally and they don't want to meet them.

Ill give you an other example.. you might get it or not in the Netherlands and Uk we have / had football hooligans.. they did a lot of damage. I have yet to see normal soccer fans denounce them. Why.. because they are not the same group. Same as you and me and bad farangs.

You just group all the Muslims together and say only way to be good is denounce the bad ones that you don't know. Give them the same chance you give yourself by saying I don't know them and or am not connected to them so I don't have to denounce them.

Ohhh, the so called "good Muslims" know who the "bad Muslims" are for sure. In Indonesia alone, about 19 million (about one in ten) Muslims back violent jihad. These people are a menace to society. After spending about 2-1/2 years, working in Afghanistan, I came to the conclusion, the Muslim religion is the largest Satanic cult in the world.

Here is a quote from the Quran to ponder. "Take not the Jews nor the Christians as your friends or protectors." "Slay the idolaters where you find them. Take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in ambush." Not exactly who I would want for a next door neighbor.

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

I see the bible has as much tolerance as the koran.

the difference is and you seem to be ommiting the fact that

PEOPLE WHO READ THE BIBLE DO NOT ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE READINGS LITERALLY MEANING THEY DO NOT KILL IN 2015 AS OPPOSED TO MUSLIMS WHO TAKE THE READINGS OF THE QUARAN LITERALLY AND KILL THOUSANDS

Facts....

They seem rather thin on the ground....

Just for your information, some Christians follow the readings of the Bible literally, some do not.

Some Muslims follow the readings of the Koran literally, some do not.

NO NEED TO SHOUT.

[Jingthing]

Is intolerance of intolerance intolerance?

[NeverSure]

Is intolerance of intolerance intolerance?

Or tolerance of intolerance is intolerable.

[Sirpia]

Stop faltering about ATF, either show us or don't.

"The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah."

Perhaps a link to where it discusses AIDS and cancer too, as declared by your copy and paste diatribe.

Some you are honestly an embarrassment, how easily ye are taken in with dramatic headlines and hate.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Sirpia

[mopar71]

How is it unsafe to criticize Muslims in the Netherlands ? I know of only 1 guy who died because of it and they got the person who did it.

I can't think of anyone who has been murdered for criticizing Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. anywhere in the world.

[Steely Dan]

The koran just like the bible and any other religious book is full of contradictions.

Not really. The Bible is divided into two parts, Old and New Testament. For Christians the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament supersede what was in the Old Testament, so in Christianity there's no stoning for adultery (see Leviticus 20:10), and Christians don't believe "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) and it's OK to wear polyester/cotton mix shirts (see Leviticus 19:10).

The Koran is also divided into two parts - Mohammed's teachings from his Mecca period, which were pretty tolerant, and his teachings from the later Medina period, which are intolerant and violent. It's difficult to see this because the Koran is (rather ridiculously) ordered by chapter length, not chronologically. Anyway, the later (intolerant and violent) teachings replaced the earlier, rather nicer ones.

In both cases there's no real contradiction; in both cases older teachings were replaced by newer ones. In the case of the Koran the teachings moved from emphasising tolerance to promoting violence. In the case of the Bible the teachings moved in the opposite direction.

A couple of other points are noteworthy:

(1) The Bible is accepted as having been written by human beings who are fallible; the Koran is taken as the literal word of the Moslem deity and is therefore utterly infallible, so everything written in it remains an absolute truth even now, more than a millennium later, even the deeply unpleasant stuff.

(2) In Europe we underwent the Age of Enlightenment. Bacon, Descartes, Newton, Locke, Kant, Hume, Voltaire, Spinoza all published widely-read books which emphasised reason, analysis and individualism over acceptance of traditional authorities such as the Roman Catholic church. The Islamic world has never undergone such an "Enlightenment", and it remains stuck in its mediaeval mindset.

This could be a start for Muslims to enter the 21st Century ... In a call to move away from the violent mindset of radical domination ...

Egypt's President Al Sisi calls for 'religious revolution' in Islam

All this that I am telling you, you cannot feel it if you remain trapped within this mindset. You need to step outside of yourselves to be able to observe it and reflect on it it from a more enlightened perspective.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/egypt_al_sisi_calls_religious_revolution_islam.html

This hits to the very heart of the matter, the statements of individual Imams carry little weight, the head Saudi Imam condemned ISIS, however in an opinion poll over 90% of Saudis believed ISIS were faithfully following Islam. Al Sisi addressed his comments to Al Azhar university , which is one of the main schools of Islamic jurisprudence. This is massive as it as good as admits current interpretation of Islamic scripture is hugely problematic for all non Muslims. Perhaps those trying to lump all religions together in an attempt at an equivalence argument should reflect on this.

[Jingthing]

Not only about different religions being different (with also similarities) but WHERE in historical progression the different religions are now in our modern era. Example -- Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition vs. today.

[JDGRUEN]

Not only about different religions being different (with also similarities) but WHERE in historical progression the different religions are now in our modern era. Example -- Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition vs. today.

The Catholics evolved from those times - no long engaging in those activities -- not remaining static as does Islam

[Jingthing]

Not only about different religions being different (with also similarities) but WHERE in historical progression the different religions are now in our modern era. Example -- Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition vs. today.

The Catholics evolved from those times - no long engaging in those activities -- not remaining static as does Islam

That was exactly my point. I don't think it's hateful to express a wish that Islam was much further along in that progression as well.

[ATF]

Sirpia, on 05 Jan 2015 - 13:10, said:

Stop faltering about ATF, either show us or don't.

"The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah."

Perhaps a link to where it discusses AIDS and cancer too, as declared by your copy and paste diatribe.

Some you are honestly an embarrassment, how easily ye are taken in with dramatic headlines and hate.

I think you are an embarrassment. If you are not a Muslim you are a very sad person. An apologist for a religion of hate.

[Sirpia]

Sirpia, on 05 Jan 2015 - 13:10, said:

Stop faltering about ATF, either show us or don't.

"The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah."

Perhaps a link to where it discusses AIDS and cancer too, as declared by your copy and paste diatribe.

Some you are honestly an embarrassment, how easily ye are taken in with dramatic headlines and hate.

I think you are an embarrassment. If you are not a Muslim you are a very sad person. An apologist for a religion of hate.

If you cannot back up your delusional statements of hate, that's really not my fault.

Admit that you're talking nonsense, and walk on like a man.

But like most cowardly bigots, I doubt you are man enough.

Never mind.

[Pakboong]

Stop faltering about ATF, either show us or don't.

"The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah."

Perhaps a link to where it discusses AIDS and cancer too, as declared by your copy and paste diatribe.

Some you are honestly an embarrassment, how easily ye are taken in with dramatic headlines and hate.

It is almost as if there is a common misunderstanding regarding the world's many intelligence agency's day job to demonize enemies. Hundreds of billions are spent each year to convince one side of every disagreement just how bad the bad guys are.. It is what we do. We are now seeing a shift from Islam to Russians.

I am more than anything surprised at the lack of sophistication in many of these extremely bigoted posts. In my era, it was the Soviets and communism.

[metisdead]

A post containing overly graphic images has been removed as the replies. Images of that nature are not needed on this site.

[H1w4yR1da]

Here a protest from Muslims in France against ISIS, called for by the head of the largest mosque in France. But of course people will say its not enough.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/

Of course it's not enough!

The head of the mosque should be calling for protests against Muslims in France who riot, create no-go areas, and burn cars every new years eve.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=muslims+burn+cars+in+france#q=muslims+burn+cars+in+france&safe=off&start=10

[AyG]

Here a protest from Muslims in France against ISIS, called for by the head of the largest mosque in France. But of course people will say its not enough.

What you haven't spotted is that the protest is at the Grand Mosque de Paris, which is a Sufi Moslem mosque.

ISIS, of course, is a Sunni Moslem operation.

Moslem sects (particularly Sunni/Shiite) hate each other at least as much as they hate Jews and Christians.

So the real question should be, where is the condemnation of ISIS coming from Sunni Moslem leaders around the globe?

Edited January 5, 2015 by AyG

[Ulysses G.]

So the real question should be, where is the condemnation of ISIS coming from Sunni Moslem leaders around the globe?

Good point. Shiites protesting against ISIS is like Pepsi having demonstrations against Coca-Cola for putting unhealthy ingredients in their sodas.

[connda]

So the real question should be, where is the condemnation of ISIS coming from Sunni Moslem leaders around the globe?

Good point. Shiites protesting against ISIS is like Pepsi having demonstrations against Coca-Cola for putting unhealthy ingredients in their sodas.

We're not always in agreement, but I do like your analogy. Good one 555

[Steely Dan]

Here a protest from Muslims in France against ISIS, called for by the head of the largest mosque in France. But of course people will say its not enough.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/

Of course it's not enough!

The head of the mosque should be calling for protests against Muslims in France who riot, create no-go areas, and burn cars every new years eve.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=muslims+burn+cars+in+france#q=muslims+burn+cars+in+france&safe=off&start=10

You also have to watch these reports for Taqiyya, in this instance the link goes on to quote CAIR, the centre for American Islamic Relations. You might be forgiven for mistakenly concluding they are moderate, until you learn the UAE put them on a list of designated terrorist organizations along with the Muslim brotherhood.

[Sirpia]

Stop faltering about ATF, either show us or don't.

"The Koran says that anyone who does not accept Islam is lower than a dog and can be dispatched with impunity because they are insult to Allah."

Perhaps a link to where it discusses AIDS and cancer too, as declared by your copy and paste diatribe.

Some you are honestly an embarrassment, how easily ye are taken in with dramatic headlines and hate.

It is almost as if there is a common misunderstanding regarding the world's many intelligence agency's day job to demonize enemies. Hundreds of billions are spent each year to convince one side of every disagreement just how bad the bad guys are.. It is what we do. We are now seeing a shift from Islam to Russians.

I am more than anything surprised at the lack of sophistication in many of these extremely bigoted posts. In my era, it was the Soviets and communism.

Remember when the Billions went on evil, evil communism. A severe threat to all decent, hard working people the World over.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe you better do some studying about what Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot did to their own people. Communism was just as evil as radical Islam is today.

[7by7]

<snip>

So the real question should be, where is the condemnation of ISIS coming from Sunni Moslem leaders around the globe?

Muslims in US issue joint Sunni-Shia statement condemning ISIS.

The Shia-Sunni Alliance of New Jersey issued a joint statement on Tuesday openly condemning the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)

Sunni cleric: ISIS chief al-Baghdadi ‘is going to hell’

A prominent Syrian Sunni cleric on Monday condemned the ISIS killing of the American Peter Kassig and said that ISIS chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi “is going to hell.”

“We have to speak loud and very clear that Muslims and Islam have nothing to do with this,” Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.

Muslims Stand Against ISIS, Too

Sunni and Shii clerics in Iraq jointly drafted and distributed a religious edict to over 50,000 mosques declaring ISIS as an un-Islamic terrorist organization. Sheikh Taha al Karkhi, grand preacher in Baghdad, declared that resisting and standing up against ISIS is a religious duty.

I've reached the forum software limit on the number of quotes allowed in a post; but there are plenty more examples of Sunni clerics and leaders condemning ISIS for those who care to look.

[jacky54]

why don't they condemn the violent passages in the Koran that motivate Muslims to kill so much?