Has the condo discount festival started ?

[Pinot]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

[whitemouse]

so many units on or coming on the market it will also have a downward pressure on rental pricers which go hand in glove so I say hold on till there really is blood on the streets

i think its a good time to buy and are looking to build a portfolio of 10 condos over the next couple of months...

Agents tell me that i can get a 15-20% return easily.....

LOL

[whitemouse]

So where cna we find a list of the best deals available ?

Give it a bit time, this right now is foreplay, give it some time for the main show

[Torrens54]

Just a question, They don't do mortgages for Falang do they ?

I have asked various people and gotten several different answers, I figured I would ask the fourm

Thanks in advance

The color of your skin (and your nationality) is not important.

Farang, Kairk, Jin, Gowlee, Neego, Nippon .........

If you are legally employed in Thailand, then you can get a home loan.

I was not referring to the color of my skin. More my status as a foreigner. What if I am not employed in Thailand, But gainfully employed elsewhere ? What if I were on a retirement visa ?

He gave you an honest answer, mentioning "Farang,etc., etc." are you simply Too Thick to work it out, instead of waffling on about, "what if I were..."

More to the point, "What if you wake up?

[rotary]

looks like the Saudi's are in this for the long term 2 to 5 years of low prices ,this is just the beginning. most smart oil producers put hedges on that run up to 18 months after that they will feel the pain or if they take off their hedges early. so this is just the beginning they want all future oil explorations to grind to a halt all alternative energy efforts to disappear. the next shoe to drop is oil industry workers are going to start to disappear from Thailand throwing their condos on a falling real estate market.

I would expect a fair number of oilfield hands paid cash for condos but even with that there is a good chance they will move on and sell when the are out of work.

[balo]

I have reduced the condo I have for sale in Jomtien to 1.4 mill baht. 35 sqm fully furnished. But even below the market price its really hard to sell these days. I am not giving up hope yet , but if no sale before February 15 it will end up as a rental .

Market price is the price you get when you did sell your Condo. If nobody will buy your Condo for 1.4 million, its still above market price.

Agree but I might just give it away , even if I go down to 1 mill , nobody's interested in buying now.

[OMGImInPattaya]

so many units on or coming on the market it will also have a downward pressure on rental pricers which go hand in glove so I say hold on till there really is blood on the streets

i think its a good time to buy and are looking to build a portfolio of 10 condos over the next couple of months...

Agents tell me that i can get a 15-20% return easily.....

Have they also told you about a bridge hey have for sale?

Normal returns are 5-8% in a normal market and up to 10% in really good years. Currently, I'd say Pattaya is neither of these...and this if if your an experienced landlord and know what you're doing (don't overpay to begin with, keep up your units, charge competitive rents, and work your butt off keeping your tenants happy). You don't just buy and then magically tenants appear and the money starts to flow in like the tide. These are decent returns on capital in a 1% interest rate environment but you have to work your butt off to get them.

Edited January 7, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

[Balance]

I have reduced the condo I have for sale in Jomtien to 1.4 mill baht. 35 sqm fully furnished. But even below the market price its really hard to sell these days. I am not giving up hope yet , but if no sale before February 15 it will end up as a rental .

Market price is the price you get when you did sell your Condo. If nobody will buy your Condo for 1.4 million, its still above market price.

I tried explaining this to Balo in another thread but he persists in thinking the "market price" is what he lists the condo for or even above his price. LOL

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, and forget about getting a list of "comparable" sales in the same area that actually sold. And of course there is the Thai practice of raising the price if their house or condo does not sell or rent. The is the Thai "market value."

[OMGImInPattaya]

I have reduced the condo I have for sale in Jomtien to 1.4 mill baht. 35 sqm fully furnished. But even below the market price its really hard to sell these days. I am not giving up hope yet , but if no sale before February 15 it will end up as a rental .

Market price is the price you get when you did sell your Condo. If nobody will buy your Condo for 1.4 million, its still above market price.

I tried explaining this to Balo in another thread but he persists in thinking the "market price" is what he lists the condo for or even above his price. LOL

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, and forget about getting a list of "comparable" sales in the same area that actually sold. And of course there is the Thai practice of raising the price if their house or condo does not sell or rent. The is the Thai "market value."

Very easy to figure what a property is worth: Determine what it would reasonably rent for (not what the agent says it will rent for) and then whack 10% off that. Then take your rental figure and plug it into standard property valuation formulas (available on the internet).

[KittenKong]

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, ...

I would point out that MLSs are not the norm in the UK or Europe either. The MLS is a US invention (also to be found in countries that tend to adopt US practices like Canada, Central America, Israel, Philippines etc) that is probably responsible, at least in part, for the very high commission rates that US agents like to charge.

[Balance]

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, ...

I would point out that MLSs are not the norm in the UK or Europe either. The MLS is a US invention (also to be found in countries that tend to adopt US practices like Canada, Central America, Israel, Philippines etc) that is probably responsible, at least in part, for the very high commission rates that US agents like to charge.

I would pose that the MLS system was "invented" to facilitate the turn of capital locked up in the real estate market by providing a system and very codified rules of the game that everyone is required to comply with. Of course this also helps the crooks on wall street to create bubbles a la 2008. I mentioned the MLS system because it is the backbone of the data collection effort that establishes reliable market values based on what has happened which is where the thread started. But, of course there is a lot more to real estate that that.

Oh, just to set the facts straight, real estate "agents" in Chiang Mai believe they deserve a 10% commission for doing maybe 10% of the amount of work that an agent in the U.S. does for a 6% commission.

[Benmart]

Any prospective buyers in Pattaya should be very careful of the lies and nonsense the real estate agents and sellers claim, and even other general property owners.

First, they will claim they are cutting the price by a massive amount by inventing some ridiculous price the property was on the market on before. They may also invent stories about similar units having just exchanged hands at such and such a price, a lie to trick idiots into over paying. Or they may convince you that the seller is desperate for money, maybe unwell, or unable to get back to the country, to make you feel you are lucky to be getting a special deal. Or they may tell you that have another buyer who has just written a cheque but they prefer you as a client...so you get that warm and fuzzy feeling and just can't turn them down. Oh, and another big one is to tell you it can be leased out for some silly rent they make up, so the rental yield will sound incredible, but the truth is more like half what they claim and even then only if you find a tenant.

There are also lies about floor area, believe it or not, maybe marketing a 40 square meter unit as 70 square meters because they know most people don't check or have any common sense or ability to estimate by eye.

Then be very careful of hidden charges like inflated agents fees, tax that should be the sellers responsibility but they trick the buyer into paying, or convincing the buyer to use their lawyer, who will charge inflated fees.

There are endless tricks and cons and having spent some time looking at the market I found it to be the most dishonest I have come across anywhere in the world. I never bought, didn't like anything I saw, from the mid to top end, but I did learn a lot. I won't even get started on the terrible quality of construction, the difficulty in finding tenants, the local nuisances like Karaoke bars that can spring up, local construction, third world infrastructure and more. Oh, and please don't even consider buying off plan, the lovely show unit isn't what you will really end up with.

Nowhere else in the world is the phrase buyer beware more apt. I'm not saying every agent is bad, one or two I spoke to seemed genuine, but they seemed like the minority,

A very good post and I've had similar experiences and observations. I agree, while not all involved are bad, the challenge is sifting throught the debris of humankind.

In the end, I decided to long-term rent a newer condo to see how this all pans out.

"The secret to making a small fortune here, is to start with a big one".

[Benmart]

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, ...

I would point out that MLSs are not the norm in the UK or Europe either. The MLS is a US invention (also to be found in countries that tend to adopt US practices like Canada, Central America, Israel, Philippines etc) that is probably responsible, at least in part, for the very high commission rates that US agents like to charge.

From my experience, the 6% the US agent(s) were paid, was worth every cent. They didn't sit in the office, but did a lot of field work, showings, etc. Time is money and they were on time for me.

[KittenKong]

The problem is that Thailand does not seem to have any semblance of an organized residential real estate industry. There is no multiple listing service, for example, ...

I would point out that MLSs are not the norm in the UK or Europe either. The MLS is a US invention (also to be found in countries that tend to adopt US practices like Canada, Central America, Israel, Philippines etc) that is probably responsible, at least in part, for the very high commission rates that US agents like to charge.

I would pose that the MLS system was "invented" to facilitate the turn of capital locked up in the real estate market by providing a system and very codified rules of the game that everyone is required to comply with. Of course this also helps the crooks on wall street to create bubbles a la 2008. I mentioned the MLS system because it is the backbone of the data collection effort that establishes reliable market values based on what has happened which is where the thread started. But, of course there is a lot more to real estate that that.

Oh, just to set the facts straight, real estate "agents" in Chiang Mai believe they deserve a 10% commission for doing maybe 10% of the amount of work that an agent in the U.S. does for a 6% commission.

I cant comment on Chiang Mai but what you describe sounds like standard practice in Thailand where most people of all origins just seem to want as much money as possible for as little effort as possible.

In Pattaya 3-5% is commonly asked for and 2-3% is often acceptable. I think this is also more than they deserve, bearing in mind the little they do. In the UK and Europe, 1-3% is common.

I think the reason that commission rates tend to be much higher than that in countries that use the MLS system is because most commissions will end up being split between two agents. In Europe and the UK agents prefer to mind their own business and keep all their (smaller) commission for themselves. As a buyer/seller I prefer that also, as higher commission just comes out of the pockets of the buyer and seller.

In the UK data related to property sales comes from the taxes paid at the time of the transfers and the associated sale values, as released by the official government body that registers this. This seems like the only sensible and accurate way of doing it to me. I agree that such information would be useful to have in Thailand, but given that there is not necessarily much correlation between the declared value and the price actually paid here I dont see it happening any time soon.

[KittenKong]

From my experience, the 6% the US agent(s) were paid, was worth every cent. They didn't sit in the office, but did a lot of field work, showings, etc. Time is money and they were on time for me.

Agents in Europe and the UK do this also, but for much lower commission rates.

As far as I'm concerned 6% is just plain silly. But if you are happy paying it, that's fine.

[fosseway]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

[Asiantravel]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Yes and I would love to hear the sales patter right now coming from some of these employees working for developers. I know in one particular case, a guy I know in that business who in his own heart genuinely believes that all kinds of economic and geopolitical doom is imminent and yet to do his job and sell this stuff he must be spinning all kinds of yarn to the unsuspecting buyer. reminds me of the timeshare salesmen.

I see Pataya being hit with a double whammy. One being the sudden drop-off in attendance of one nationality which seems to have driven the condo market here in more recent times and the second factor is the general slowdown in the global economy .

[Anthony5]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Yes and I would love to hear the sales patter right now coming from some of these employees working for developers. I know in one particular case, a guy I know in that business who in his own heart genuinely believes that all kinds of economic and geopolitical doom is imminent and yet to do his job and sell this stuff he must be spinning all kinds of yarn to the unsuspecting buyer. reminds me of the timeshare salesmen.

I see Pataya being hit with a double whammy. One being the sudden drop-off in attendance of one nationality which seems to have driven the condo market here in more recent times and the second factor is the general slowdown in the global economy .

Add to that the third fact, which is that current political situation doesn't inspire buyers.

[fosseway]

From my experience, the 6% the US agent(s) were paid, was worth every cent. They didn't sit in the office, but did a lot of field work, showings, etc. Time is money and they were on time for me.

Agents in Europe and the UK do this also, but for much lower commission rates.

As far as I'm concerned 6% is just plain silly. But if you are happy paying it, that's fine.

Just noticed this post, I think both Kitten Kong and myself have been here before.

UK commission rates are typically between 1 and 2% this much depends on the price of the property. Can you imagine selling a 5,000000 Pound apartment in Mayfair, @ 6% this would net the agent 120,000 Pounds commission !!!

I would guess agents overheads in UK are higher than the US, for a start, US fuel is about a third of the cost of UK.

But at the end of the day, as quoted by K.K. If you are happy paying it, that's fine.

[Asiantravel]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

That proves nothing! You're talking about the past , which is completely unrelated to today's conditions.

I can remember when, during the early 1980s inflation was higher than interest rates so making money by buying real estate was as easy as falling off a log.

It actually paid to borrow as much as possible and it was even deemed to be successful to borrow as much as possible to make easy money (which probably accounts for Walt Disney's famous quote in the 70's when someone asked him if he was rich he said I must be rich - I owe $7 million!)

All you can see in today's world is the prospect of deflation. Why would any rational person buy now (particularly off the plan)when looking at global trends something is much more likely to be cheaper than more expensive down the track?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Asiantravel

[chris2004]

It is ALWAYS better to buy than to rent IF you are going to stay somewhere for any length of time. Buying here in Pattaya was the best thing i ever did. Not only did i lock my accommodation costs in at 71 to the Pound but i can now live rent free for the next 20 years. The key thing is to buy in the right location and for a good price. I am sure there will be some bargains for those wishing to buy later this year.

[Benmart]

From my experience, the 6% the US agent(s) were paid, was worth every cent. They didn't sit in the office, but did a lot of field work, showings, etc. Time is money and they were on time for me.

Agents in Europe and the UK do this also, but for much lower commission rates.

As far as I'm concerned 6% is just plain silly. But if you are happy paying it, that's fine.

Rates vary much like the understanding information sharing.

I am happy for mainland Europeans and UK citizens that enjoy lower commission rates. I don't pay a VAT in my home state (at least not yet) and don't regard anyone silly for doing so, since I'm not an expert on the topic.

When I wish someone happiness, I do so without attachment or qualifiers.

One Day at a Time

Edited January 8, 2015 by Benmart

[paddyjenkins]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

A lot of older people bought property decades ago when it was much cheaper. But that's irrelevant, we are talking about the present, not decades ago. I always find it strange when people can't seem to distinguish between past and present. Maybe they just do it because they think we're impressed, or they just can't understand how the distant past was a different world, or maybe it's just one of those age things.

[NightRider70]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

Where are these 20 years old condos selling for 13-15 millions in todays market? They must be super fancy. Any pics?

[paddyjenkins]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

Where are these 20 years old condos selling for 13-15 millions in todays market? They must be super fancy. Any pics?

Come to think of it, very good point. I think the poster is telling porky pies. First, yes, where are these 20 year old or older condos selling for 15 million baht? Second, if he bought 20 years ago then that was 1995, a few years before the Asian crisis. During the Asian crisis the THB was massively devalued so the poster would have bought THB before it devalued, not after. In fact, the exchange rates of GBP to THB was then about 40, so that's a huge loss even against the currently weak GBP. Second, property crashed during the Asian crisis and he bought at the pre crash prices. Although prices have since recovered I very much doubt he has made what he claims, nothing like it. Judging by the fact that the SET has only just recovered to its pre crash levels, it seems to me the poster may well have made nothing on his purchases, or that he has even lost money. It all smells of a big fat lie to me. Or it's a failure of understanding, maybe an age thing. Edited January 8, 2015 by paddyjenkins

[OMGImInPattaya]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

Where are these 20 years old condos selling for 13-15 millions in todays market? They must be super fancy. Any pics?

Units in the Royal Cliff condos and some of the older buildings in Naklua go for these prices. The added bonus is as these places were built when land, labor, everything was much cheaper, the units themselves are much bigger than today's micro-sized unites.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

^^^paddyjenkins' post (No. 25) ought to be pinned at the top of the Pattaya subforum. Thailand Real Estate Buyer Beware!

A friend of mine with no particular budget limit calls condo pricing in Thailand ludicrous. Same for cars. He sees no value in either.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[NanLaew]

looks like the Saudi's are in this for the long term 2 to 5 years of low prices ,this is just the beginning. most smart oil producers put hedges on that run up to 18 months after that they will feel the pain or if they take off their hedges early. so this is just the beginning they want all future oil explorations to grind to a halt all alternative energy efforts to disappear. the next shoe to drop is oil industry workers are going to start to disappear from Thailand throwing their condos on a falling real estate market.

Most of the more mature oil trash calling Thailand their home have already bought and paid for their retirement estates in the country and never played around much with the condo market.

Now if you are talking about digital pikeys...

[NightRider70]

It's never a good time to buy in Thailand. Condos never hold their value, construction quality is poor. Then there is the tenant/management nightmare. I know of numerous cases where owners and the management companies are at each other's throat over the use of service/maintenance fees. Management companies think of the management fees as a profit center as the property quickly deteriorates in this climate. This is a country where contracts mean little.

Bottom line, there is no reason to buy in Thailand. More property comes on the market daily, where is the bottom? Rent.

Buying property for investment here? I know the market in Phuket is at a standstill. Russians propped it up last year but that's over. Only a naive newbie would come to Thailand looking to buy something. The experienced expat knows buying here is for suckers. Everyone I know has either sold or kicking themselves for not selling when there was a prayer of getting out.

Dear Pinot,

I bought my condo some twenty years ago for 3 Million Baht, then spending about 1 Million Baht on a upgrade from the usual Thai standard product. The Condo has been well managed and well funded over the years, and we are sitting on a healthy

sinking fund.

Comparable units are now selling, ( Not asking) between the 13 to 15 Million Baht range.

I have just let the unit to a company for 80K per Month, I am moving into another one I bought in the same building about 10 years ago.

I conservatively guessimate the "Saved rent" over 20 years to average around 40 K per month, = 480,000 per year x 20 = 9.6 Million Baht.

Condo dues paid would have been around 1.2 Million, repairs and renewals not that much, with the exception of 4x Diakin ceiling Cassette air conditioners (Baht 160 K) lets say another 70 K, so a Total of 1.43 Million.

Interest of course, on the original 4 Million Baht would have to be calculated and deducted from the above figures.

One must also take into account the fact of actually owning a unit, gives you the piece of mind that the condo will not be sold sold by your landlord at some stage, plus most importantly in my view, you get to live in a condo designed specifically to your personal tastes.

I hope the above confirms my preference regarding buying or renting.

Where are these 20 years old condos selling for 13-15 millions in todays market? They must be super fancy. Any pics?

Units in the Royal Cliff condos and some of the older buildings in Naklua go for these prices. The added bonus is as these places were built when land, labor, everything was much cheaper, the units themselves are much bigger than today's micro-sized unites.

They got to be fancy to sell for that today. I believe there was some sort of crash in 1997, the ones who bought a big condo then must have made some deals.

[mike2011]

Anyone with USD in the bank is watching the trend with a smile while having some cold drink and sharpening the blade.

paddyjenkins' post is indeed obligatory reading and I wish he had added even more of his wisdom.

I am kind of more primitive person. I looked at those agents and asked myself it I would deal with such character back home. Almost always the answer was no. The argument that 'things' are different in Thailand never impressed me cos my money was the same as back home. And no matter what these sales persons try to put into your head, never forget your money rules. period.

A question: Following the 1997 bust Thai banks had for a long time quite a bit of foreclosed inventory on the websites of their realestate divisions. Are Thai banks still involved in the real estate market like they were in 1997? If so I would expect their inventory to built up again. That should be a cheaper way of buying stuff as no agent would be involced.

Any, as I said, let's wait and see. No easier way of making/saving money