12 dead in attack on Paris newspaper; France goes on alert

[Anthony5]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

No because they are scum and deserve to die.

[MrTee]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I do not agree with your comments about 'winding up the Muslims' through promoting political satire. I do not think that this is the core argument of the Jones article, which I do think is both pertinent and prescient. The use of these terrorist incidents to incite irrational, hate based responses is a plausible argument. But I do not correlate this with your comments on the cartoons. It has already been pointed out to you that Charlie Hebdo satirises all religions. They are ecumenical in their irreverence. Political satire is also not hate speech or bigotry. It is a tool of the powerless against the powerful. Political satirists are a rare and sensitive breed. These mild mannered artists need protection and support. Western liberal democracies need them.

These are principles worth fighting for. If people are offended by political satire, they have every right to object. They can make counter arguments. They can even draw their own cartoons. They cannot kill the satirist. For that they must be jailed. Censoring political speech because of the potential for offence is entirely antithetical to the whole idea of political satire.

I encourage you to look at the history of political satire, particularly some of the early stuff in the UK and 19thC US. You will see how it is an integral part of the development of liberties and freedoms for the masses, we ordinary folk.

Tep, maybe you misunderstood what is was I was objecting too

Just to be clear: I fully support satirists in all their forms. There is nothing better than humbling ones self by taking a fresh look at your self through someone else's eyes..

I do no read French publications, but I fully support their right to publish however they see fit.. even if its against what ever I happen to believe at the time.

I love satire in all its forms and I support their right to publish. I need no encouragement to observe satire. I've always enjoyed it!

My point was that certain posters suggesting that in order to maintain some sort of balance we should all be posting the pictures on every newspaper\magazine\rag.

Sorry, I do not see how that helps Hebdo, satire or anything else.. other than a deliberate attempt to "wind up muslims". perhaps you only read part of what I wrote-

I do not see that creating ever more hatred in the world solves anything.

and for the record, I posted several satire cartoons depicting the reality of situation, but apparently these were deemed "inappropriate"

If you DM me I'll send you a copy ;-)

I have seen calls for the mass publication of anti-muslim related material as a retaliatory measure. If this is the basis of your concern, then I would probably agree. I don't think that is the way it should work. Political satirists should go about their business of poking fun and our societies should demand that its citizens respect free speech. Using cartoonists now as part of the arsenal to attack islam or islamists or whatever is a different matter entirely. While it would provide some satisfaction to retaliate in such a manner, I believe that the best thing is for Charlie Hebdo to dust itself off and go about business as usual as soon as possible and as soon as is respectful. I read that the City of Paris will honour the surviving staff on Friday. These are responses that I think are more effective and in many ways, demonstrate more strength, than trying to batter people over their heads.

I now understand your correlation between your position and the Guardian article. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Exactly Tep

[JOC]

Lol @ people bitchin at the thai police for not finding the koh tao murderers immediately. They raided a magazine in the middle of paris and the killers are still at large lol. Yet no one is bashing the french police. Yet the murders that took place in Thailand was in some secluded island, and there were no witnesses.

The Thai police found the real killers within a couple of days, before they decided to go down the scapegoat-route!!

Doubt very much that the French police will suddenly turn their attention from Arab jihadists to choirboys from the Vatican, because it for some reason serves their agenda!!

[Anthony5]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

I agree

Murdering them gives the martyrdom they crave..

Better let them be held up publically responsible for their crimes and be banged up in gaol for the rest of their miserable lives

But the problem is that they will be freed after 2/3th of their sentence, or earlier.

[Kitsune]

Western press, please don't be bullied:

YES!

This is why ALL European/American press should publish the cartoons that got Charlie's team executed.

So they did not die in vain !

[MrTee]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

I agree

Murdering them gives the martyrdom they crave..

Better let them be held up publically responsible for their crimes and be banged up in gaol for the rest of their miserable lives

But the problem is that they will be freed after 2/3th of their sentence, or earlier.

IN France: The statutory sentence for murdering a policeman is life. 22 years before being eligible for parole, which they'd never get..

IMHO death is far too easy for these scum

[Lukecan]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

I agree

Murdering them gives the martyrdom they crave..

Better let them be held up publically responsible for their crimes and be banged up in gaol for the rest of their miserable lives

The thing is, these guys are not afraid of dying. They believe they're gonna go to heaven and party with 40 virgins. ITs best to lock them up until the end of their lives.

[JockPieandBeans]

Just to make this clear for all of you who are already mixing Islam with Islamist

The clue is in the 1st 5 letters, plain as the nose on the front of your face.

[JOC]

[Tep]

Just to make this clear for all of you who are already mixing Islam with Islamist :

The guys who died in France would have spit on your face for such comments.

The guys who died hated the kind of people who mixed a minority of a group to make the whole group look bad whatever the group is.

Yes they hated religion, yes they hated the islamists, as much as they hated the israelian settlers, as much as they hated the catholic church and its wealth and secrets about children abuses by their priest.

Charb, Cabu, Wolinski, Tignous and all the staff at the Charlie Hebdo were mostly ...be ready guys.... communists or far left winged and nothing, not even such carnage would have changed their way of living.

Oh and another thing, just remember YOU are the <deleted> foreigners here, and i can read a lot from you speaking about how the thais try daily to con farangs, to kill them or rob them, and still you re here.... just think of what may happen if one day two lunatics farang start to kill 12 people in Bangkok, how would you like them to react? understand the difference or just kick all of us from thailand?

You are wrong

Charb when asked what he would say if he met one of the terrorists who were trying to kill him, said: " I would give him the Coran to read, because most of them are clueless and have not even read it".

Charb did not hate religion, he mocked extremists.

They did not hate Islamists they made fun of salafists.

They were people of love not hatred....

Wolinski said: " The fanatics are never going to pin us down because we never hated anyone, we are all love"

Sorry but you sound like someone uneducated who does not get the message behind their cartoons

The naivete of the cartoonists seems staggering.

Delusional liberals as always.

They will 'pin you down' alright.

If not by words, then by swords.

They fought and died for an important principle. That demonstrates courage to me. You don't have to agree with their politics to support the idea of free speech. I would imagine that being at the end of a gun would test a person's convictions. These guys didn't just talk the talk. They had been through this before.

The old saying that you allude to, that the 'Pen is mightier than the Sword'. I believe it and political satire is one tool in the arsenal of liberal democracies against oppression and oppressive ideologies.

[micmichd]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

No because they are scum and deserve to die.

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

Edited January 8, 2015 by micmichd

[Lukecan]

Lol @ people bitchin at the thai police for not finding the koh tao murderers immediately. They raided a magazine in the middle of paris and the killers are still at large lol. Yet no one is bashing the french police. Yet the murders that took place in Thailand was in some secluded island, and there were no witnesses.

The Thai police found the real killers within a couple of days, before they decided to go down the scapegoat-route!!

Doubt very much that the French police will suddenly turn their attention from Arab jihadists to choirboys from the Vatican, because it for some reason serves their agenda!!

Doesn't change the fact that french police are incompetent. 2 jihadists with ak-47's raiding an office in broad daylight. If it took place in some small city or village I'd given them the benefit of the doubt. But that magazine has been attacked several times before, and received countless threats, so it was a vulnerable target and should of been monitored much more closely. 30 hours after the incident, the killers are still at large. Such an attack shouldn't of taken place at first! I wonder who the head of french intelligence is.

And according to the witnesses, the shootings went on for 10 minutes at least, 10 minutes and no reinforcements, was the french police on strike?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Lukecan

[ggold]

Hope it comes to a shoot-out and the Muslim scum goes straight to hell!!

Fanatic extremists like them don't deserve a trial provided by a system they despise.

Sure the French Police will only be too happy to help the cowards to a another life after their killing of two of their colleagues!!

Using terrorists methods and kill them would be making martyrs of them and losing our democracy.

If we want to keep a democracy we have to take them to court

Sometimes political correctness makes me wanna puke!!

They killed 11 innocent people, most of those only used their pencil as a weapon, and you still think they deserve a fair trial??

No shoot them as the dogs they are and let the bodies disappear, so there will be no place for their families and fellow fanatics to visit in their "honor" !

Sometimes enough is enough!! No more turning the other cheek, if we want them stop pissing on us and our values!!

Rats better shut up!

I think we have a fundamentalist in our midst, he/she doesn't like what he/she reads and is making threats! Ignoring his/her comment I would like to say.

I do not think the vermin who slaughtered the journalists of Charlie Hebdo will give themselves up. I don't think democracy will lose if they are not brought before a court. These animals don't deserve to live anyway. Let them rot in hell , may their next life be as pigs.

[ggold]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

No because they are scum and deserve to die.

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

you are right they are not scum, they are shit, They do not deserve to be thought of as human beings.

[Christie Paul]

If ever you bother to study the Koran, if you bother to study the Hadith or carefully study the social life in an Islamic community or better still get the opinions of intelligent Muslims, you will come to realise, that the philosophy is so profoundly flawed, so incoherent, not just on issues around morality, but on plain logic, augmented by observable reality, that it has no place within an intelligent practical framework for living a life.

It is a badly cobbled together illogical and plagiarised pile of nonsense. It didn't even manage to plagiarise the good bits from other philosophies, only the really dumb bits.

If philosophies were expressed as motor vehicles - Islam would be a Trabant. Which is not entirely a fair judgement, because the Trabant was kind of cute.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Christie Paul

[micmichd]

I think we have lots of fundamentalists here, if you call humans animals I call you rats.

[Jingthing]

No, they are human beings alright. Just another example of what human beings are capable of under the influence of toxic belief systems.

[Lukecan]

If ever you bother to study the Koran, if you bother to study the Hadith or carefully study the social life in an Islamic community or better still get the opinions of intelligent Muslims, you will come to realise, that the philosophy is so profoundly flawed, so incoherent, not just on issues around morality, but on plain logic, augmented by observable reality, that it has no place within an intelligent practical framework for living a life.

It is a badly cobbled together illogical and plagiarised pile of nonsense. It didn't even manage to plagiarise the good bits from other philosophies, only the really dumb bits.

If philosophies were expressed as motor vehicles - Islam would be a Trabant. Which is not entirely a fair judgement, because the Trabant was kind of cute.

Al religions are flawed, not just islam. What makes islam stand out is that it has a lot of serious followers. You got guys worshipping cows, weed etc etc. Don't expect religions to be logical.

Actually if you judged it from a logical point of view, Islam is more logical then most religions, but it still has its flaws.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Lukecan

[JDGRUEN]

Last update for Montrouge city: two municipal officers shot, they had been called to a traffic scene accident involving a gray car brand Renault Clio model.

It was at this point that one or two men opened fire with assault rifles, a man would immediately fled on foot toward the Metro station Châtillon-Montrouge. Testimonies speak another man fleeing by car to Paris, witnesses stating that he was wearing a bulletproof vest and drove a white Clio.

A car matching that description was found about 9:30 am near the Metro Laplace.

The idiot media said that there was not connection to the killing of the 12 people... amazing

Policewoman Shot Dead In Paris This Morning

The two people were shot near a metro station in Montrogue by a man wearing a bulletproof vest, the AFP reports. He was carrying an automatic rifle.

http://www.businessinsider.com/shootings-in-southern-paris-2015-1

[rgs2001uk]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

No because they are scum and deserve to die.

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

Correct, finally the penny drops.

I am more than willing to pay my own air fare to France, buy my own pig blood to soak the bullets in, before putting a bullet in the back of these scums head.

If you dont have the balls for it, please step aside for those of us who do.

As for human beings and scum, best you head off to Iraq/Syria and you can discuss your ideas over a cuppa chai with ISIS.

[Lukecan]

They have a right to free trial, just like the anders guy in Norway. Just because they are islamist terrorists is not a reason to reject them a free trial. Anders killed more than 50 people, yet he was given a decent trial.

Let me guess, you don't want them to get a trial because the killers are muslim?

No because they are scum and deserve to die.

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

So, since they are "scum" they are not human beings?

Correct, finally the penny drops.

I am more than willing to pay my own air fare to France, buy my own pig blood to soak the bullets in, before putting a bullet in the back of these scums head.

If you dont have the balls for it, please step aside for those of us who do.

As for human beings and scum, best you head off to Iraq/Syria and you can discuss your ideas over a cuppa chai with ISIS.

Whats stopping you mr. rambo. Why don't you head off to France and go after the killers. But be careful, those guys look like professionals, you might be the one that ends up getting the bullet.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Lukecan

[MrTee]

Lol @ people bitchin at the thai police for not finding the koh tao murderers immediately. They raided a magazine in the middle of paris and the killers are still at large lol. Yet no one is bashing the french police. Yet the murders that took place in Thailand was in some secluded island, and there were no witnesses.

The Thai police found the real killers within a couple of days, before they decided to go down the scapegoat-route!!

Doubt very much that the French police will suddenly turn their attention from Arab jihadists to choirboys from the Vatican, because it for some reason serves their agenda!!

Doesn't change the fact that french police are incompetent. 2 jihadists with ak-47's raiding an office in broad daylight. If it took place in some small city or village I'd given them the benefit of the doubt. But that magazine has been attacked several times before, and received countless threats, so it was a vulnerable target and should of been monitored much more closely. 30 hours after the incident, the killers are still at large. Such an attack shouldn't of taken place at first! I wonder who the head of french intelligence is.

And according to the witnesses, the shootings went on for 10 minutes at least, 10 minutes and no reinforcements, was the french police on strike?

took USA over 10 years to find Osama Bin Laden.. just saying.

[Lukecan]

Lol @ people bitchin at the thai police for not finding the koh tao murderers immediately. They raided a magazine in the middle of paris and the killers are still at large lol. Yet no one is bashing the french police. Yet the murders that took place in Thailand was in some secluded island, and there were no witnesses.

The Thai police found the real killers within a couple of days, before they decided to go down the scapegoat-route!!

Doubt very much that the French police will suddenly turn their attention from Arab jihadists to choirboys from the Vatican, because it for some reason serves their agenda!!

Doesn't change the fact that french police are incompetent. 2 jihadists with ak-47's raiding an office in broad daylight. If it took place in some small city or village I'd given them the benefit of the doubt. But that magazine has been attacked several times before, and received countless threats, so it was a vulnerable target and should of been monitored much more closely. 30 hours after the incident, the killers are still at large. Such an attack shouldn't of taken place at first! I wonder who the head of french intelligence is.

And according to the witnesses, the shootings went on for 10 minutes at least, 10 minutes and no reinforcements, was the french police on strike?

took USA over 10 years to find Osama Bin Laden.. just saying.

Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan, not USA.

[JDGRUEN]

@micmichd # 355

Capitalism is the freedom to sacrifice everything in the name of money.
Without "Arabic numbers" (Indian, in fact) you would not be able even to count your tea money. Left alone architecture, poetry etc.

You are really eaten up with socialism aren't you? And bringing out that old numbers canard ... that's the best you can do? Wow!

[JockPieandBeans]

If ever you bother to study the Koran, if you bother to study the Hadith or carefully study the social life in an Islamic community or better still get the opinions of intelligent Muslims, you will come to realise, that the philosophy is so profoundly flawed, so incoherent, not just on issues around morality, but on plain logic, augmented by observable reality, that it has no place within an intelligent practical framework for living a life.

It is a badly cobbled together illogical and plagiarised pile of nonsense. It didn't even manage to plagiarise the good bits from other philosophies, only the really dumb bits.

If philosophies were expressed as motor vehicles - Islam would be a Trabant. Which is not entirely a fair judgement, because the Trabant was kind of cute.

It doesnt matter that Westerners think it is a pile of cr@p.

It is what

Al Kebab

Al Quida

Boko Haram

ISIS

The Lone Wolves

And a whole host of subsidiary groups think.

They think that it is perfectly normal to kill, behead, rape, take slaves and every other atrocity that they can think of.

I also see it did not take long for the " Pen is mightier than the Sword " Brigade to start making an appearance.

The 1st time hot lead erupts around your feet, please let me know what colour of pen you scream for.

Time to take the gloves off and fight fire with fire.

[Steely Dan]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

[Farang two dot zero]

The two terrorists have abandoned their car and the SWAT focuses on Corcy and Longpont villages from an hour and a half , they seek one or both feet men!

Edited January 8, 2015 by Farang two dot zero

[ggold]

If ever you bother to study the Koran, if you bother to study the Hadith or carefully study the social life in an Islamic community or better still get the opinions of intelligent Muslims, you will come to realise, that the philosophy is so profoundly flawed, so incoherent, not just on issues around morality, but on plain logic, augmented by observable reality, that it has no place within an intelligent practical framework for living a life.

It is a badly cobbled together illogical and plagiarised pile of nonsense. It didn't even manage to plagiarise the good bits from other philosophies, only the really dumb bits.

If philosophies were expressed as motor vehicles - Islam would be a Trabant. Which is not entirely a fair judgement, because the Trabant was kind of cute.

Al religions are flawed, not just islam. What makes islam stand out is that it has a lot of serious followers. You got guys worshipping cows, weed etc etc. Don't expect religions to be logical.

Actually if you judged it from a logical point of view, Islam is more logical then most religions, but it still has its flaws.

What they have are followers who interpret the faith is such a way that it justifies killing non believers, Or haven't you noticed that, with what has been happening in Syria and Iraq. To even suggest that there is some logic in that is well ludicrous. There is not logic to a faith that can allow for the killing of fellow Muslims Just because one faction interprets something one way and another faction interprets it in completely the opposite way.

[Kitsune]

France is debating whether le front National should be invited or not

[micmichd]

@micmichd # 355

Capitalism is the freedom to sacrifice everything in the name of money.

Without "Arabic numbers" (Indian, in fact) you would not be able even to count your tea money. Left alone architecture, poetry etc.

You are really eaten up with socialism aren't you? And bringing out that old numbers canard ... that's the best you can do? Wow!

Yes.

I'm German, and I know both systems. And I've been in Asia for a long time.