To use international credit card in Thailand or not

[gezginrocker]

Hi

Since I've came to Thailand, I'm using my Visa credit card (which was issued in my home country) for shopping, restaurants, supermarkets, electronics etc. Bu I have doubt if this is a smart thing or not, because of the exchange rates at my local bank.

At another topic, I have read this:

"Just go into the bank with your passport & foreign credit/debit card & ask for a cash advance on your credit card. The trick is that the sum being requested must be higher than the ATM's usual maximum advance (THB 20,000?). The bank does the paperwork, gets the authorisation, copies your passport (which you also sign) and the bank give you the cash. Best thing is that there's no fees! Not a single Baht & you get personalised service as part if the deal."

So my question is, should I get a cash advance with my credit card like this and pay my expenses in cash, or should I continue using my credit card? Which one is better?

Thanks

[hml367]

I use my credit card from my home country to get cash as described every month. That is how I get my money here.

However, I would check with your financial institution that issued the card about the fees. They can tell you what they offer.

The one fee almost everyone pays is foreign currency conversion fee. Visa Corporate in the US, and possibly other regions, has a program that does not charge foreign currency conversion fees. The card issuing institution must have subscribed to this benefit for it to apply.

I get my money from my Visa credit card, have it deposited to my Thai bank account (I make the cash withdrawal in a Thai bank I have an account with), then go online and transfer from my deposit account to the credit card account so there are no finance charges and my financial institution has subscribed to the no conversion fee benefit. Essentially I have gotten my money from my home country to my Thai bank account free for the last 3 or 4 years.

You must check with your card issuing financial institution to see what they have available. You should also make sure that they know you will be using the card internationally because they have algorithms to block the cards for fraudulent use. This has become more frequent recently because of international credit card fraud.

Edited January 8, 2015 by hml367

[bkk_mike]

It depends on the terms and conditions of the card you're using.

This varies dramatically between issuers.

i.e. Some UK cards charge a fixed fee for using your card abroad + a percentage on the FX rate, i.e. £2.75 per use + a 3% spread on the FX rate (which you see as just a terrible FX rate on the purchases when you see your bill, but visa/mcard actually get pretty good FX rates). Using one of those for a series of small purchases is seriously damaging to your wealth... With a spread like that, you can actually be better off taking the merely bad FX rate on the direct currency conversion (when the shop offers to charge you in your home currency - it doesn't avoid the £2.75 foreign use charge, but at least you get a slightly less abysmal exchange rate).

The US definitely has cards that are similar in the range of charges...

Other cards don't charge anything (cards linked to Charles Schwab brokerage accounts in the US apparently even refund the 180 baht ATM charge - but I don't have one of those, so I don't know if there's a limit on how many they'd cover in a month...).

There are better cards, but if you're already here, you may not have them available to you. In the UK, the moneysavingexpert.com website is a good place to find the best cards for using abroad.

The best option that I use personally is to open a local bank account and transfer money in through your internet banking service - ALWAYS in your home country's currency - NEVER in Thai Baht - as the exchange rates are ALWAYS better in Thailand - at least for GBP/EUR/USD. (This is possibly easier to set up back in your home country if, like HSBC in Hong Kong, you have to go into a branch and fill in a form and show ID to set up an international transfer on your bank account's internet banking service - very secure, but not that useful if you're already in the country you want to send money to...)

How long the transfer takes depends on where you're transferring from... - i.e. Hong Kong to Thailand was always same day or next day, UK to Thailand, for some reason, takes 2 or 3 days usually, and if I remember correctly, Japan to Thailand was a day or two also.

You don't say which country you're from which would help in suggesting the best card to have, and if you already have it, carry on...

Edited January 8, 2015 by bkk_mike

[recycler]

I would only use it at the larger banks in Thailand and nowhere else if possible.

Many people get scammed even at renown and large stores in Thailand, this is one of the most dangerous countries to use your credit card.

Also with ATM cards be very careful use only the ATM's of the big banks on 24 hour busy locations and check it for any suspicious things before using it.

[brewsterbudgen]

Well I've lived here nearly 10 years and, like many Thais, use my UK and Thai credit cards regularly in department stores, supermarkets, restaurants, for travel and in some bars.

[Suradit69]

I would only use it at the larger banks in Thailand and nowhere else if possible.

Many people get scammed even at renown and large stores in Thailand, this is one of the most dangerous countries to use your credit card.

Also with ATM cards be very careful use only the ATM's of the big banks on 24 hour busy locations and check it for any suspicious things before using it.

"Many people get scammed even at renown and large stores in Thailand ..."

Sounds like the Farang Fantasy Factory is working 24/7 producing factoids as well as blowing smoke. How could you possibly know this? It just suits your prejudices.

Of course you should be careful using your credit card anywhere in the world and realize that you'll be at the mercy of the banks when it comes to exchange rates and fees, but the major Thai department stores and other businesses have every reason to ensure that use of credit cards remain safe. I've used credit cards at departments store, hospitals, supermarkets and hotels here for years. In some cases the receipt even shows me how much I'll be charged in dollars so I can cancel the charge before signing.

I'd never use a cc for a cash advance though. At least with the cards I have, that would be far more expensive than just doing a domestic bank transfer to Bangkok Bank in New York. But whether or not a Thai bank was large or small or had a pretty logo or nice color scheme, I'd still feel safe using my card with any of them if I had to.

"...this is one of the most dangerous countries ..."

No. Mexico and the United States top the list. UK comes is higher than Brazil.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2012/10/22/countries-with-the-most-card-fraud-u-s-and-mexico/

Edited January 8, 2015 by Suradit69

[Pib]

Whether you use your credit card to get cash or use it to pay for purchases the exchange rate you get will be the same as the exchange rate is provided by Visa.

However, your "card-issuing bank" will most likely charge foreign transaction fee(s) for any purchase... and for a cash advance (ATM or bank counter) the foreign transaction fee plus a cash advance fee. The great majority of cards have a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee (maybe also a small flat fee of around $5) and a 3% cash advance fee is common. You really need to know what the Terms and Conditions are of your card. Some credit cards like the U.S. Capital Once and Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee....really depends on your card-issuing bank. And if we were talking debit cards, Schwab debit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee as an example...their are others.

And if using the card for a purchase or cash withdrawal, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT, accept a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction which at an ATM might be called something warm and fuzzy like Bank Rate, Home Rate, etc., as the local foreign bank then sets the exchange rate in that case and it will surely be around 3% lower than the Visa exchange rate....AND you'll probably still get charged the foreign transaction/cash advance fees charged by your card-issuing bank. Just say No to DCC and continue on with a regular ATM exchange transaction. If you make a purchase and when the receipt for signature prints out, if it shows your home country currency or USD "and" Thai baht, that is a DCC transaction.....refuse it...don't sign it...tell the clerk to cancel that transaction and rerun in Thai baht....it only takes about 30 seconds to accomplish regardless of what some merchants may say as some merchants really like to gouge farangs/tourists using foreign cards with a DCC transaction.

So, you really need to find out what foreign transaction/cash advance is applicable to your card then you will know how rich you been making the card-issuing bank. Now there are a few credit cards that do not charge a foreign transaction fee and even fewer which don't charge a cash advance fee like a couple of U.S. examples I gave above...and the PenFed example doesn't charge a cash advance fee either. But I expect if you had a card that had no foreign transaction fees would wouldn't have made your opening post. My guess is going to be your have a card that charges around a 3% foreign transaction fee and a 3% cash advance fee...and oh yea, when you get cash advance the interest starts being applied from the date of the cash advance...no grace period like with purchases. Just got to your bank's web site and look up the fees associated with your card.

But if you do take your credit card to a Thai bank and do a counter/teller cash advance they will not charge a fee and you will get the Visa exchange rate....but remember when the charge hits your card account it will include any foreign transaction and cash advance fees charged by your "card-issuing" bank. And if you are wondering how does the Thai bank make a profit by doing a counter cash advance if the don't charge a fee. Well, it's because they will earn something called an "interchange fee" of $1.75 + 0.33% of the advance which is paid from the card-issuing bank to the bank issuing the advance. So, don't fee sorry for the Thai bank or your card-issuing bank because believe me they are making their fees....the Thai bank from the interchange fee and your card-issuing bank from the foreign transaction fee/cash advance fee it's probably charging you.

[Pib]

I would only use it at the larger banks in Thailand and nowhere else if possible.

Many people get scammed even at renown and large stores in Thailand, this is one of the most dangerous countries to use your credit card.

Also with ATM cards be very careful use only the ATM's of the big banks on 24 hour busy locations and check it for any suspicious things before using it.

For years I've been using my U.S. issued no foreign transaction fee credit and debit cards almost daily in Thailand, especially my credit cards. I use the credit cards in grocery stores, hardware stores, fuel stations, hospitals, just everywhere....I also use the cards in ATMs and at bank tellers for cash withdrawals. Never had a fraudulent transaction. However, over my long lifetime I have had three fraudulent transactions...two in the U.S. and one in Spain...and these fraudulent transactions were spotted almost immediately and removed from my account within a few business days....and new cards rec'd within a few weeks.

Now I do treat my cards like cash since losing a card in Thailand is the same as losing cash as the bad guy who finds/steals it can go on a spending spree since Thai checkout clerks don't confirm identity or compare signatures against an ID card. And it don't matter if its a chipped card or magnetic stripe card as Point of Service (POS) machines at checkout counters do not require a PIN enter unless the bank issuing the card has the card setup to absolutely require a PIN entry which the great majority do not when the local merchant doesn't want to use PIN entry...that's why you see the great, great majority of Thai POS machines are not used for customer entry of PINs; only the clerks make some entries into the POS machines. In all my years in Bangkok in checkout lines watching thousands of people checkout using their credit & debit cards, I think only once have I seen a customer PIN entry with chipped or non-chipped card.

And I don't use my cards in ATMs unless the ATMs are at mall, a large fuel station, or somewhere that I consider unlikely the ATM could be tampered with.

Yea, protect your credit and debit cards like cash....maintain good card and banking personal security. It' won't give you 100% protection but it will get pretty close.

[Leung Falang]

My wife often uses her visa card at Big C the same day I use the ATM for Schwab. Rates are within .01 or .02 for US$.

We often see .1 difference (32.7 versus 32.8) when we use the visa at Global House, and if you don't watch out, they will ask to transfer into the currency where your card is located which was a terrible choice the one time we did that with

1.5 or so lower (31.0 versus 32.5) . We have never had a problem with either card here in ten years.

We don't normally use them outside of major stores/airlines/hotels.

[muffy]

I use my cards all over , but I also check for fraud . No problem ever .

[Pib]

My wife often uses her visa card at Big C the same day I use the ATM for Schwab. Rates are within .01 or .02 for US$.

We often see .1 difference (32.7 versus 32.8) when we use the visa at Global House, and if you don't watch out, they will ask to transfer into the currency where your card is located which was a terrible choice the one time we did that with

1.5 or so lower (31.0 versus 32.5) . We have never had a problem with either card here in ten years.

We don't normally use them outside of major stores/airlines/hotels.

Visa provides the same basic exchange rate for all cards, any difference between your wife' Visa card (maybe your talking a credit card?) and your Schwab debit card would be due to a foreign transaction fee on your wife's card and/or the time of day since Visa exchange rate changes daily tied to U.S. eastern time which depending on whether the U.S. is on daylight savings time or not is either 11am or 12 noon in Thailand.

So even if your wife's card does not charge a foreign transaction fee and she makes her buy says at 10:50am and you do your ATM withdrawal at say 12:15pm, the Visa rate will have changed for the next 24 hours making it look like one of the cards got a better exchange.

I use to do a lot of buys at Global House for several years in getting my household up to speed...they never tried the DCC ripoff until one day about 18 months ago when the store I had been using my card at for years would only process my U.S. credit card under the DCC transaction. After having them cancel the transaction and the a store supervisor trying to get someone on the phone supposedly at HQ Global House I just left the store without buying anything because it was taking too long and I could buy the items later at another store which I did. Later that evening I went the Global House website and submitted a complaint and within two days HQ Global House called with an apology and said the store just misunderstood and they can process the transaction in Thai baht...please continue to do business with us. I was nice of them to reply...in fact I was somewhat pleasantly surprised. Same thing happened to another ThaiVisa poster. But anyway although I have bought some things at this Global House store a few times since it was all value buys less than 500 baht where I couldn't use my credit card. One day I'll try a credit card buy again at that Global Store...but even with the HQ apology it has still left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Global....I just don't like doing business with any merchant (unless I have to) that attempts the DCC ripoff.

[Tomtomtom69]

Whether you use your credit card to get cash or use it to pay for purchases the exchange rate you get will be the same as the exchange rate is provided by Visa.

However, your "card-issuing bank" will most likely charge foreign transaction fee(s) for any purchase... and for a cash advance (ATM or bank counter) the foreign transaction fee plus a cash advance fee. The great majority of cards have a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee (maybe also a small flat fee of around $5) and a 3% cash advance fee is common. You really need to know what the Terms and Conditions are of your card. Some credit cards like the U.S. Capital Once and Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee....really depends on your card-issuing bank. And if we were talking debit cards, Schwab debit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee as an example...their are others.

And if using the card for a purchase or cash withdrawal, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT, accept a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction which at an ATM might be called something warm and fuzzy like Bank Rate, Home Rate, etc., as the local foreign bank then sets the exchange rate in that case and it will surely be around 3% lower than the Visa exchange rate....AND you'll probably still get charged the foreign transaction/cash advance fees charged by your card-issuing bank. Just say No to DCC and continue on with a regular ATM exchange transaction. If you make a purchase and when the receipt for signature prints out, if it shows your home country currency or USD "and" Thai baht, that is a DCC transaction.....refuse it...don't sign it...tell the clerk to cancel that transaction and rerun in Thai baht....it only takes about 30 seconds to accomplish regardless of what some merchants may say as some merchants really like to gouge farangs/tourists using foreign cards with a DCC transaction.

So, you really need to find out what foreign transaction/cash advance is applicable to your card then you will know how rich you been making the card-issuing bank. Now there are a few credit cards that do not charge a foreign transaction fee and even fewer which don't charge a cash advance fee like a couple of U.S. examples I gave above...and the PenFed example doesn't charge a cash advance fee either. But I expect if you had a card that had no foreign transaction fees would wouldn't have made your opening post. My guess is going to be your have a card that charges around a 3% foreign transaction fee and a 3% cash advance fee...and oh yea, when you get cash advance the interest starts being applied from the date of the cash advance...no grace period like with purchases. Just got to your bank's web site and look up the fees associated with your card.

But if you do take your credit card to a Thai bank and do a counter/teller cash advance they will not charge a fee and you will get the Visa exchange rate....but remember when the charge hits your card account it will include any foreign transaction and cash advance fees charged by your "card-issuing" bank. And if you are wondering how does the Thai bank make a profit by doing a counter cash advance if the don't charge a fee. Well, it's because they will earn something called an "interchange fee" of $1.75 + 0.33% of the advance which is paid from the card-issuing bank to the bank issuing the advance. So, don't fee sorry for the Thai bank or your card-issuing bank because believe me they are making their fees....the Thai bank from the interchange fee and your card-issuing bank from the foreign transaction fee/cash advance fee it's probably charging you.

It's either your home currency or THB, not USD, unless that's also your home currency.

[Tomtomtom69]

Whether you use your credit card to get cash or use it to pay for purchases the exchange rate you get will be the same as the exchange rate is provided by Visa.

However, your "card-issuing bank" will most likely charge foreign transaction fee(s) for any purchase... and for a cash advance (ATM or bank counter) the foreign transaction fee plus a cash advance fee. The great majority of cards have a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee (maybe also a small flat fee of around $5) and a 3% cash advance fee is common. You really need to know what the Terms and Conditions are of your card. Some credit cards like the U.S. Capital Once and Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee....really depends on your card-issuing bank. And if we were talking debit cards, Schwab debit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee as an example...their are others.

And if using the card for a purchase or cash withdrawal, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT, accept a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction which at an ATM might be called something warm and fuzzy like Bank Rate, Home Rate, etc., as the local foreign bank then sets the exchange rate in that case and it will surely be around 3% lower than the Visa exchange rate....AND you'll probably still get charged the foreign transaction/cash advance fees charged by your card-issuing bank. Just say No to DCC and continue on with a regular ATM exchange transaction. If you make a purchase and when the receipt for signature prints out, if it shows your home country currency or USD "and" Thai baht, that is a DCC transaction.....refuse it...don't sign it...tell the clerk to cancel that transaction and rerun in Thai baht....it only takes about 30 seconds to accomplish regardless of what some merchants may say as some merchants really like to gouge farangs/tourists using foreign cards with a DCC transaction.

So, you really need to find out what foreign transaction/cash advance is applicable to your card then you will know how rich you been making the card-issuing bank. Now there are a few credit cards that do not charge a foreign transaction fee and even fewer which don't charge a cash advance fee like a couple of U.S. examples I gave above...and the PenFed example doesn't charge a cash advance fee either. But I expect if you had a card that had no foreign transaction fees would wouldn't have made your opening post. My guess is going to be your have a card that charges around a 3% foreign transaction fee and a 3% cash advance fee...and oh yea, when you get cash advance the interest starts being applied from the date of the cash advance...no grace period like with purchases. Just got to your bank's web site and look up the fees associated with your card.

But if you do take your credit card to a Thai bank and do a counter/teller cash advance they will not charge a fee and you will get the Visa exchange rate....but remember when the charge hits your card account it will include any foreign transaction and cash advance fees charged by your "card-issuing" bank. And if you are wondering how does the Thai bank make a profit by doing a counter cash advance if the don't charge a fee. Well, it's because they will earn something called an "interchange fee" of $1.75 + 0.33% of the advance which is paid from the card-issuing bank to the bank issuing the advance. So, don't fee sorry for the Thai bank or your card-issuing bank because believe me they are making their fees....the Thai bank from the interchange fee and your card-issuing bank from the foreign transaction fee/cash advance fee it's probably charging you.

It's either your home currency or THB, not USD, unless that's also your home currency.

[el jefe]

.......

Now I do treat my cards like cash since losing a card in Thailand is the same as losing cash as the bad guy who finds/steals it can go on a spending spree since Thai checkout clerks don't confirm identity or compare signatures against an ID card. And it don't matter if its a chipped card or magnetic stripe card as Point of Service (POS) machines at checkout counters do not require a PIN enter unless the bank issuing the card has the card setup to absolutely require a PIN entry which the great majority do not when the local merchant doesn't want to use PIN entry...that's why you see the great, great majority of Thai POS machines are not used for customer entry of PINs; only the clerks make some entries into the POS machines. In all my years in Bangkok in checkout lines watching thousands of people checkout using their credit & debit cards, I think only once have I seen a customer PIN entry with chipped or non-chipped card.

........

My US issued credit cards all release me of all liability for fraudulent charges if my card is lost. Not like cash at all.

And it's not just Thailand where the signature is not checked. I can't remember the last time someone ever even looked at the back of my card in the US and 90% of the time I get my card back before I even sign the receipt.

None of my (US) cards require a PIN.

[maswov]

Credit card is OK to use but if you are not careful the charges can add up. I use cards that have no international transaction fee and give reward points. The exchange rate doesn't seem to be much different than when I ACH money here. I never use the credit card for cash advances since most cards charge a higher interest rate for cash advances and there normally is no grace period so interest starts to accrue immediately.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The answer to the OP's question depends on what kind of credit card he's planning to use to obtain a cash advance in Thailand.

MOST credit cards have pretty hefty fees for cash advances, which is what you're doing when you do a bank counter withdrawal using a credit card. Usually, that's a flat fee of some amount and then possibly also a percentage fee based on the amount withdrawn. A common example of the cash advance fee might be something like $10 plus 3-4% of the amount withdrawn.

Then, most of the time, the credit card issuer also will start charging interest from the day of the cash advance until it's fully paid back (no 30-day grace period for repayment on cash advances). And the cash advance interest rate is often substantially higher than the regular purchases interest rate. Then on top of that, MOST credit cards also have an additional foreign currency fee (often 3% or so) that is charged against any transaction done outside the home country of the card issuing bank.

You start adding all those fees together, and for many credit cards, doing a foreign cash advance can get to be a very expensive proposition.

That said, there are a VERY FEW credit cards (probably less than 1% of all the cards available out there) that have no foreign currency fee AND no cash advance fee either. So, if you happen to be one of the relative few who has one of those, you can in essence do a fee-free cash advance with that kind of card in Thailand, assuming you use the card's online banking feature to pay back the cash advance at the same time it's taken out. No 180 baht Thai bank ATM fees in that kind of transaction.

But for most people with the typical kinds of credit cards, foreign cash advances are likely to be a bad financial deal.

As for the OP's situation, absent providing more details, in general, someone visiting Thailand is going to be better off using a debit card to make ATM cash withdrawals vs. using a credit card for cash advances. The debit card will still potentially have a foreign currency fee charged by the home bank and a 180 baht per withdrawal fee charged by the Thai bank. But the latter can be minimized if you stick to doing large (the maximum allowed) 30,000 baht ATM withdrawals at banks like TMB, Ayudhya and CIMB that allow them. You really don't want to be doing 5,000 baht ATM withdrawals and getting charged 180 baht each time by the Thai bank.

But at least by using the debit card and ATM withdrawals, you're not getting hit by the potential cash advance flat fee and then percentage fee, as well as avoiding any interest charges. As in the $10 plus 3-4% cash advance fee example I mentioned above. In contrast, the 180 baht Thai bank ATM fee (about $5 U.S.) on a 30,000 baht ATM withdrawal works out to be only a 0.6% surcharge.

Whether it makes sense for the OP to use his non-Thai credit card to make purchases in Thailand really depends on how much of a foreign currency fee his card issuing bank charges.

As far as card safety and liability is concerned, it really comes down to what country your credit card was issued in and what consumer protection rules apply to cards from that country. For U.S. issued credit cards, even when used in foreign countries, there is little to no cardholder liability for fraudulent transactions, assuming you report the card lost/stolen or report the fraudulent transaction as soon as you become aware of it, even just after receiving the next monthly statement. Thai bank issued credit cards, on the other hand, have virtually none of those same kind of legal protections.

Edited January 8, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

.......

Now I do treat my cards like cash since losing a card in Thailand is the same as losing cash as the bad guy who finds/steals it can go on a spending spree since Thai checkout clerks don't confirm identity or compare signatures against an ID card. And it don't matter if its a chipped card or magnetic stripe card as Point of Service (POS) machines at checkout counters do not require a PIN enter unless the bank issuing the card has the card setup to absolutely require a PIN entry which the great majority do not when the local merchant doesn't want to use PIN entry...that's why you see the great, great majority of Thai POS machines are not used for customer entry of PINs; only the clerks make some entries into the POS machines. In all my years in Bangkok in checkout lines watching thousands of people checkout using their credit & debit cards, I think only once have I seen a customer PIN entry with chipped or non-chipped card.

........

My US issued credit cards all release me of all liability for fraudulent charges if my card is lost. Not like cash at all.

And it's not just Thailand where the signature is not checked. I can't remember the last time someone ever even looked at the back of my card in the US and 90% of the time I get my card back before I even sign the receipt.

None of my (US) cards require a PIN.

Yes, U.S. cards do provide a lot of consumer protection/liability protection. However, liability protection aside when your card is lost/stolen the bad guy can basically use it like cash to make purchases until the card is blocked/cancelled. Hopefully, you or your card-issuing bank picks up on the fraudulent transaction(s) early on to stop the card usage...and then begin move into the liability coverage and card replacement stages....the bank will probably send you a form or two to sign where you swear you didn't make the transactions, etc. I too use U.S. credit/debit cards and as previously mentioned when through the fraudulent transaction process several times.

And yeap, the great majority of U.S. credit cards still do not use a "chip" but that is changing slowly over the next few years as the U.S. transitions to "chipped cards."

But just having a chip on a card really don't add a lot of security in the real world especially if merchant's POS machine is setup not to require a customer PIN or the card itself will work in several "verification" modes. I got my first U.S. card with a chip just last month....and the PIN showed up in separate mailing. Now when I use that card in Thai stores entry of the PIN is not required because the card is setup for the following verification modes: "Chip & Signature, "Chip & PIN" and/or use of the magnetic stripe on the back." Any verification mode will work as preferred by the merchant's POS machine or ATM you are using.

When I first got the chipped card a few weeks ago the "chip" portion was not working for purchases but the magnetic stripe worked fine...called the card-issuing bank about the problem...next day the chip portion started working properly as the card-issuing bank fixed the problem on their end. Now the merchant like a Tesco Lotus checkout clerk just inserts the chip end of the card into the POS machine and the receipt for signature pops out....exactly the same way it works if using the magnetic stripe of the card. Until the card-issuing bank fixed the chip setup the Lotus clerk had to swipe the card instead. But if I ever buy something from a merchant requiring a Chip & PIN (like in Europe where chip & pin is commonly required ), my card will still work by me entering the PIN for a true Chip & PIN transaction.

Yeap, after getting my first chipped card, having the chip issue, and then reading-up on card verification modes (i.e, chip & pin, chip & signature, or even no verification, etc), I realized even having a chipped card does not turn your card into a card totally safe from fraudulent transactions...it only helps to reduce the fraudulent transactions in some cases/areas.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Pib

[Tomtomtom69]

.......

Now I do treat my cards like cash since losing a card in Thailand is the same as losing cash as the bad guy who finds/steals it can go on a spending spree since Thai checkout clerks don't confirm identity or compare signatures against an ID card. And it don't matter if its a chipped card or magnetic stripe card as Point of Service (POS) machines at checkout counters do not require a PIN enter unless the bank issuing the card has the card setup to absolutely require a PIN entry which the great majority do not when the local merchant doesn't want to use PIN entry...that's why you see the great, great majority of Thai POS machines are not used for customer entry of PINs; only the clerks make some entries into the POS machines. In all my years in Bangkok in checkout lines watching thousands of people checkout using their credit & debit cards, I think only once have I seen a customer PIN entry with chipped or non-chipped card.

........

My US issued credit cards all release me of all liability for fraudulent charges if my card is lost. Not like cash at all.

And it's not just Thailand where the signature is not checked. I can't remember the last time someone ever even looked at the back of my card in the US and 90% of the time I get my card back before I even sign the receipt.

None of my (US) cards require a PIN.

My Australian and Swiss issued credit cards all require a pin. Since Aug 1, 2014, Australian issued credit and debit cards no longer accept signatures. But interestingly here in Thailand, even after this deadline I was surprised I could still use my cards with just a signature but only months later more and more Thai merchants prompt me for a PIN and guess what, even a signature after I've already entered my PIN! By contrast, my fiancee's Thai credit card only required a signature in Australia and this was after Aug 1. However, as stated, this is because only Australian issued cards (and European ones, amongst others) now no longer accept signatures. In time, this could change for Thai issued ones too, and it should. Signatures are not sufficient proof that you are the owner of a card.

[el jefe]

.......

Now I do treat my cards like cash since losing a card in Thailand is the same as losing cash as the bad guy who finds/steals it can go on a spending spree since Thai checkout clerks don't confirm identity or compare signatures against an ID card. And it don't matter if its a chipped card or magnetic stripe card as Point of Service (POS) machines at checkout counters do not require a PIN enter unless the bank issuing the card has the card setup to absolutely require a PIN entry which the great majority do not when the local merchant doesn't want to use PIN entry...that's why you see the great, great majority of Thai POS machines are not used for customer entry of PINs; only the clerks make some entries into the POS machines. In all my years in Bangkok in checkout lines watching thousands of people checkout using their credit & debit cards, I think only once have I seen a customer PIN entry with chipped or non-chipped card.

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My US issued credit cards all release me of all liability for fraudulent charges if my card is lost. Not like cash at all.

And it's not just Thailand where the signature is not checked. I can't remember the last time someone ever even looked at the back of my card in the US and 90% of the time I get my card back before I even sign the receipt.

None of my (US) cards require a PIN.

My Australian and Swiss issued credit cards all require a pin. Since Aug 1, 2014, Australian issued credit and debit cards no longer accept signatures. But interestingly here in Thailand, even after this deadline I was surprised I could still use my cards with just a signature but only months later more and more Thai merchants prompt me for a PIN and guess what, even a signature after I've already entered my PIN! By contrast, my fiancee's Thai credit card only required a signature in Australia and this was after Aug 1. However, as stated, this is because only Australian issued cards (and European ones, amongst others) now no longer accept signatures. In time, this could change for Thai issued ones too, and it should. Signatures are not sufficient proof that you are the owner of a card.

All this goes to show that there is no worldwide standard and that merchants will be able to accept most cards using the security of the issuing bank.

Also, it seems that US issued cards have the least security, yet the lowest risk of loss to the consumer.