Yingluck 'failed to address issues'

[brucec64]

how can you impeach someone who is not in power under a constitution that no longer exists?

just watch this space to find out

You can when you grant yourself ultimate authority and just make up laws as necessary.

[rubl]

My question would be why these people were not questioning the scheme while they were all in office. I am sure this Mr. Warong was involved in the government in some form so why was he not asking these questions when he was an MP

Good question!

Answer: the first comments were made BEFORE the July 3rd, 2011 general election. The comments and the data backing the comments kept on popping up and being ignored or denigrated by the YIngluck Government. Questions during censure debates were waved aside with meaningless answers and the use of a majority in parliament. Etc., etc.

As for former MP Warong's activities

2012-12-01

http://soclaimon.wordpress.com/2012/12/01/disturbing-evidence-emerges-over-shady-g-to-g-rice-deal/

2013-11-28 during last censure debate

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrat-attacks-PM-govt-over-rice-scheme-30220772.html

[rubl]

how can you impeach someone who is not in power under a constitution that no longer exists?

just watch this space to find out

You can when you grant yourself ultimate authority and just make up laws as necessary.

As if that is necessary with a 'self-financing' scheme which leaves a 700,000,000,000 Baht debt which 'we, the tax payer' have to pay off.

[tbthailand]

" Yingluck killed no one and you want her head? " Sorry , but what of all the "killed" Farmers... Wake up apoligists..!

soldiers in Iraq vs suicides in Thailand.

wake up indeed.

As for apologists, do you recall why the farmers weren't getting paid? It isn't like the government did not try very hard to get them paid. Loans blocked through efforts of the PDRC. Loans made on the orders of the 'NCPO' in May.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/12/thailand-politics-rice-idUSL4N0OT1SS20140612

[AleG]

My question would be why these people were not questioning the scheme while they were all in office. I am sure this Mr. Warong was involved in the government in some form so why was he not asking these questions when he was an MP

Good question!

Answer: the first comments were made BEFORE the July 3rd, 2011 general election. The comments and the data backing the comments kept on popping up and being ignored or denigrated by the YIngluck Government. Questions during censure debates were waved aside with meaningless answers and the use of a majority in parliament. Etc., etc.

As for former MP Warong's activities

2012-12-01

http://soclaimon.wordpress.com/2012/12/01/disturbing-evidence-emerges-over-shady-g-to-g-rice-deal/

2013-11-28 during last censure debate

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrat-attacks-PM-govt-over-rice-scheme-30220772.html

To sum up the first link, rice trading company found to had committed fraud during Thaksin's government is awarded a G-to-G deal to buy cheap rice, the director of that company, on the run from the fraud charges, "Apichart Chansakulphorn, owner of President Agri Trading, was pictured with Thaksin at a pool-side dinner reception in Hong Kong in October"

The chances of Yingluck's Thaksin's government investigating these irregularities, were somewhere between none and zero.

[ratcatcher]

I'm sure I read this thread earlier in the day and it included a number of supportive posts of Yingluck and factual information. Now it's just filled with the usual hate Thaksin and the ardent but light weight and misinformed claims about Yingluck as PM. Hmmmm....

Her public address yesterday was the first factual and cogent accounting of the rice scheme I've read in the many months this purge and persecution has been underway. Bravo for the breathe of fresh air in her laying it all out from a leadership point of view and informing the public, in contrast to the cock ups of her detractors and who cares what a Democrat might have to say on this subject anyway. And no surprise either.

The Shinawatras and YIngluck remain the best Thailand has had to offer in terms of representing the entire country, considering the poor and knowledgeably participating in the experiment of democracy.

Like those who burned Joan of Arc at the stake, those voices withered over time. But Joan of Arc remains a revered symbol over hundreds of years, and so will Yingluck Shinawatra when her detractors are whistling under Milkwood.

Enjoy a manao boys and girls, plenty to go around.

The difference between Joan d'Arc and Yingluck is that one was hoisted up by a powerful man to rally the peasantry to help him achieve absolute power regardless of her lack of qualifications, while the other was a 15th century nut case.

"The Shinawatras and YIngluck remain the best Thailand has had to offer in terms of representing the entire country, considering the poor and knowledgeably participating in the experiment of democracy."

The best Thailand has had to offer.

An interesting comment, but given we are dealing with politicians, there are many examples of mediocrity aspiring to greatness and failing.

Thaksin Shinawatra came on the scene and grasped the opportunity that the opposition had ignored for decades, the rural poor, their numbers and potential vote. Had he been a really wise man he could eventually have been a great man, history shows many examples. Instead, Thaksin chose to be clever and use this golden opportunity to do things for the poor and working classes while at the same time enriching himself, his family and cronies at the country's expense and at times the expense of foreign investors. Sooner or later this was going to come back and bite him and it did and he's now enjoying his life in the sandbox called Dubai.

Meanwhile in order to keep things still under control his loving, attractive, somewhat naive sister was plunged into the limelight to be his admitted puppet / clone. Yingluck Shinawatra is not a bad woman, merely a rather naive, and some might say, stupid woman.

There are those faithful supporters of the clan on this forum, and I respect their views, that believe the Shinawatras will rise again.

Personally, I doubt not, and rather hope someone will surface with a clean slate that can guide this country through the next 20 years, because it is becoming increasingly obvious to those who can see that the present system is merely going through the motions. Both parties and all their associates should hang their heads for ultimately allowing the country to reach this stage. Further discussions on the reasons for the present situation lead us down corridors at the end of which are securely protected doors.

[rubl]

Talk about a waste of press space. Asking a former Dem and someone who being criticizing the rice scheme and wrote a book on it for a comment.

True, true. They should have asked common people.

"Given that Ms. Yingluck said her RPPS was 'self-financing' and lost 700 billion Baht, given that this has to be repaid by the government from your taxes, and given that with less financial margin the government will increase VAT, do you think Ms. Yingluck is

- a: innocent

- b: negligent

- c: criminal

- d: other (please specify)

Thank you."

The common people were asked and they voted her back to office. What next was a travesty of justice with the court invalidating the result and now this attempt to ban her for 5 years. The case before the NLA is politically motivated and the NACC is on a self serving personal agenda. Let's see them open up the case of the 2010 killings. Doubt that will see the light of day for a long time.

Since when is questioning someone over a 'self-financing' scheme which leaves a 700 billion Baht Debt politically motivated?

It is interesting but also puzzling to see that till now we've got a lot of obfuscation, diversions and nonsense, but that only put more emphasise on the topic title of "failed to address the issues".

Is promising and defending a balanced RPPS budget but leaving a 700,000,000,000 Baht debt without any accounting 'negligent' or 'criminally negligent', or maybe even 'criminally fraudulent' ?

Edited January 10, 2015 by rubl

[bkkstooge]

"failed to address the issues"

yea so did Obama, Bush, Cameron, Blair et al

Public office is, and should be, such that you cannot get 'sued', 'impeached' or 'witch-hunted' AFTER you leave office. When you are IN office you should come under CLOSE scrutiny of the public, press and watchdogs and ejected IF the voters votes you out OR you have committed an illegal act.

To hound someone AFTER they leave office is vindictive and absurd UNLESS it was an illegal act. No one has suggested the ex-PM acted illegally they just want to grind her into the ground for revenge and to set themselves up at the feeding trough for years to come.

Most Thais I know find this distasteful and are not in the least fooled by this as they all know the real reason (which we cannot discuss).

It seems in Thailand they seek to fool all of the people ALL of the time

"Obama, Bush, Cameron, Blair etc failed to address the issues" Well...They bloody well should do especially Bush and Blair. "Hounding someone ( A Politician!!!) after they leave office is vindictive" It most certainly is NOT. In my book it's called holding someone (A Politician again) accountable for misdeeds, corruption, criminal acts etc.... and most Thais I know are delighted that this woman is for once been held accountable for her party's appalling policies and her total lack of leadership, which I am sure we can agree on' during one of Thailand's most troubled recent periods.

[rubl]

" Yingluck killed no one and you want her head? " Sorry , but what of all the "killed" Farmers... Wake up apoligists..!

soldiers in Iraq vs suicides in Thailand.

wake up indeed.

As for apologists, do you recall why the farmers weren't getting paid? It isn't like the government did not try very hard to get them paid. Loans blocked through efforts of the PDRC. Loans made on the orders of the 'NCPO' in May.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/12/thailand-politics-rice-idUSL4N0OT1SS20140612

Did Ms. Yingluck not state in Mid-2013 that financing to a total of 270 billion Baht was arranged? That's about the time the first bills started not to get paid. Furthermore if all was peachy-rosy why would a caretaker government suddenly need to borrow 130 billion Baht?

[brucec64]

how can you impeach someone who is not in power under a constitution that no longer exists?

just watch this space to find out

You can when you grant yourself ultimate authority and just make up laws as necessary.

As if that is necessary with a 'self-financing' scheme which leaves a 700,000,000,000 Baht debt which 'we, the tax payer' have to pay off.

There should be a corollary to Godwin’s Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) that on any TV thread, there is a 100% certainty that Rubl will at some point insert “700 billion” into the discussion.

This 700 billion number has been repeated ad infinitum on this forum, but it appears that the real number is significantly lower. Propaganda has reached new heights (or lows) under this junta, and anything can be disclosed in the media, true or not. That is the case of the supposed 700 billion loss number put onto the rice scheme. However, when NACC member Wicha was under oath, and was criminally liable for false statements, the number he disclosed was a 229 billion baht loss.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-urges-fair-treatment-from-NLA-30251633.html

Yingluck spent an hour defending herself to the NLA after National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) member Wicha Mahakhun accused her of dereliction of duty. Wicha said her actions had inflicted a Bt229-billion "loss" on the government

This is less than a third of the media disclosed number. What other “facts” have been misrepresented by the NACC?

To put losses in perspective, it has been estimated that the protests, coup and martial law have cost Thailand 3% of GDP for 2014 alone. Growth will only be 1% this year instead of 4% (http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014). This is a loss of 371 billion baht in less than one year, 142 billion bht more than the rice scheme lost in 3 years.

This begs the question to be asked – are they impeaching the right PM?

Edited January 10, 2015 by brucec64

[lewy67]

The PDRC protests and the coup have cost the economy three times as much as what the rice scheme has. Over two trillion baht. But since it was the elite backed PDRC and the military who ran up these bills none of the anti democracy, pro fascist, yellow shirt, NLA government backers on here, who spew their repetitive bile and propaganda, say a word about it. Their comments really have solidified my understanding of what happened in Europe in the 1930s, that is, seemingly educated and civilized westerners choosing totalitarian rule over imperfect but evolving democracy. You make me sick.

[Fat Haggis]

she's negligent I her duty as chairperson of the committee, by not attending any meetings, but all those who did participate are complicit in the deficit.

All the way down to the farmers whose fraudulent claims in their deposits of rice.

Everyone, and not just Yingluck shoulders responsibility and blame, so instead of singling her out, the NACC need to have all their ducks in a row so that prosecutions are made from top to bottom.

Her negligence manifested when those around her participated in the biggest a scam of all time telling her what she wanted to hear, whilst dipping into the cookie jar, and she accepted those reports and I'm sure that those around her knew she was clueless and could feed her any amount of shit and she'd trust them.

Punish ALL involved, not just the person at the top.

[Thai at Heart]

"Which caused severe losses to the farmers,"

Well now this is a new one.

[mike324]

I'm sure I read this thread earlier in the day and it included a number of supportive posts of Yingluck and factual information. Now it's just filled with the usual hate Thaksin and the ardent but light weight and misinformed claims about Yingluck as PM. Hmmmm....

Her public address yesterday was the first factual and cogent accounting of the rice scheme I've read in the many months this purge and persecution has been underway. Bravo for the breathe of fresh air in her laying it all out from a leadership point of view and informing the public, in contrast to the cock ups of her detractors and who cares what a Democrat might have to say on this subject anyway. And no surprise either.

The Shinawatras and YIngluck remain the best Thailand has had to offer in terms of representing the entire country, considering the poor and knowledgeably participating in the experiment of democracy.

Like those who burned Joan of Arc at the stake, those voices withered over time. But Joan of Arc remains a revered symbol over hundreds of years, and so will Yingluck Shinawatra when her detractors are whistling under Milkwood.

Enjoy a manao boys and girls, plenty to go around.

"Her public address yesterday was the first factual and cogent accounting of the rice scheme I"

What was factual that we haven't hard before? beneficial for the farmers? or sustainable scheme?

Shinawatras sound good on paper and their speech, but their execution was always poor and corrupt, no different than the opposition really. It's always for democracy, for the people, so its ok to be corrupted like the elites because we have the support of the masses who thinks a little corruption is ok. hahaa add some soda to that manao and make your day better :-)

[Thai at Heart]

So basically she averted the topics with double talk typical of a politician.

Did you attend any meetings about the the rice scheme Mrs. YL?

Answer: the rice scheme was needed to help the farmers. You should be careful about continuing this impeachment as it may upset the happiness of the people. Hehee!

Funny how yesterday's news was her lawyers comments how well she did at that hearing and how well she defended herself. I understand that press release was done by her lawyers. Did she think the truth would not come out about how she averted the main reason for her presence there? What a twit.

Well, maybe they should have asked her directly instead of this sham of a system and statement.

[mikemac]

I am so glad Eric, bruce, the gibbering bird and co. are on the Shin's side. But sometimes I get the feeling they actually work for the Dems and their comments are designed to damage the Shin regime.

It's working boys, keep up the good work !

[Thai at Heart]

she's negligent I her duty as chairperson of the committee, by not attending any meetings, but all those who did participate are complicit in the deficit.

All the way down to the farmers whose fraudulent claims in their deposits of rice.

Everyone, and not just Yingluck shoulders responsibility and blame, so instead of singling her out, the NACC need to have all their ducks in a row so that prosecutions are made from top to bottom.

Her negligence manifested when those around her participated in the biggest a scam of all time telling her what she wanted to hear, whilst dipping into the cookie jar, and she accepted those reports and I'm sure that those around her knew she was clueless and could feed her any amount of shit and she'd trust them.

Punish ALL involved, not just the person at the top.

That takes work, diligence, and will probably catch a lot of your supporters. Not much point in that.

[anon022]

On the TV broadcast, they used the word 'suspect'. They don't even have evidences that she's corrupted. There is nothing for her to address. At that point in time, her administration believed it was the right decision to buy the rice from the farmers. End of story.

I want some of the stuff you've been smoking, send me a pm please to fill me in on the details.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Impossible

[djjamie]

yingluck could actually learn from her mistakes if she wasn't so busy denying them.

She can talk all she wants about poverty, justice and living conditions, but it does absolutely NOTHING to address the fact that there is a 980 billion baht hole in the state budget (doesn't include the interest rate yet) which my 2 children will have to pay for until the year 2045 if they remanded in Thailand to live.

It would be all worth while if the farmers were any richer or if productivity in the rice sector had increased, but neither of that has happened. If it had I would be a PTP fan, a supporter and "groupy" if you will. But no. What do they have to show for 980 billion baht? 18 tons of rice rotting in warehouses (2 years worth of exports - using 2014 statistics) of which 80% is rotting, 6% is rotten and 0.67% of of the very best crop was stolen by her brother's business cronies. (google cropping reliance on subsidies)

What are we teaching our children if instead of taking responsibility for our failed actions our leaders threw out red herrings about poverty and justice. By the way, the rice policy does nothing to fix poverty and justice but in fact makes it worse as farmers become more dependent on state handouts - that is what ever money is left from the corruption.

What are we teaching our children when our leaders embrace blame rather then taking responsibility.

Happy Children's Day.

Edited January 10, 2015 by djjamie

[candide]

I'm a bit lost with all these different figures, sometimes it's 700 billion, sometimes 980 billion as here, and recently NACC member Wicha quoted under oath a figure of 229 billion loss.....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-urges-fair-treatment-from-NLA-30251633.html

Edited January 10, 2015 by candide

[rubl]

As if that is necessary with a 'self-financing' scheme which leaves a 700,000,000,000 Baht debt which 'we, the tax payer' have to pay off.

There should be a corollary to Godwin’s Law (

<a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin" s_law"="">http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-urges-fair-treatment-from-NLA-30251633.html

Yingluck spent an hour defending herself to the NLA after National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) member Wicha Mahakhun accused her of dereliction of duty. Wicha said her actions had inflicted a Bt229-billion "loss" on the government

This is less than a third of the media disclosed number. What other “facts” have been misrepresented by the NACC?

To put losses in perspective, it has been estimated that the protests, coup and martial law have cost Thailand 3% of GDP for 2014 alone. Growth will only be 1% this year instead of 4% (http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014). This is a loss of 371 billion baht in less than one year, 142 billion bht more than the rice scheme lost in 3 years.

This begs the question to be asked – are they impeaching the right PM?

Would you accept a mere 529,789,123,456 billion Baht ? For a 'self-financing' scheme that's still a lot. "Negligence" seems a very mild charge.

BTW the 229 billion is probably a typo.

September, 2014 BAAC states a loss of 320 billion Baht in 16 months RPPS

"Luck estimated the government still owed BAAC about 750 billion baht in debt related to the scheme."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/thailand-rice-debt-idUSL3N0RI1OL20140917

October 17th, 2013

"The ministers said the loss should not in fact exceed Bt100 billion a year, while insisting that the government would continue with the pledging programme."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Ministers-dispute-rice-pledging-loss-figure-30217277.html

October 12th, 2013 Dept PermSec of Finance states a over 400 billion Baht loss for 2011/2012 and 2012/2013

http://www.stasiareport.com/the-big-story/asia-report/thailand/story/thai-govt-says-rice-scheme-losses-s56b-20112012-20130617

June 13th, 2013 Government acknowledged loss of US$4.4 billion (+/- 132 billion Baht) over 20111/2012

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/thailand-rice-debt-idUSL3N0RI1OL20140917

December, 2012 WB estimate a loss of 150 billion per harvest season

http://www.ke-rice.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=539336655&Ntype=4

October 6th, 2011 The government said the RPPS to cost less than 430 billion Baht, but the government would gain it back by selling rice.

http://en.isnhotnews.com/?p=14909

[rubl]

she's negligent I her duty as chairperson of the committee, by not attending any meetings, but all those who did participate are complicit in the deficit.

All the way down to the farmers whose fraudulent claims in their deposits of rice.

Everyone, and not just Yingluck shoulders responsibility and blame, so instead of singling her out, the NACC need to have all their ducks in a row so that prosecutions are made from top to bottom.

Her negligence manifested when those around her participated in the biggest a scam of all time telling her what she wanted to hear, whilst dipping into the cookie jar, and she accepted those reports and I'm sure that those around her knew she was clueless and could feed her any amount of shit and she'd trust them.

Punish ALL involved, not just the person at the top.

Well, you have to start somewhere, now don't you?

October 6th, 2011 The government said the RPPS to cost less than 430 billion Baht, but the government would gain it back by selling rice.

http://en.isnhotnews.com/?p=14909

[rubl]

I'm a bit lost with all these different figures, sometimes it's 700 billion, sometimes 980 billion as here, and recently NACC member Wicha quoted under oath a figure of 229 billion loss.....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-urges-fair-treatment-from-NLA-30251633.html

So, the 'self-financing' scheme did generate a loss of at least 229 billion. In September, 2014 BAAC said losses of 320 billion over 16 months and still waiting for 750 bilion Baht in payment from the government.

BTS 'under oath'? That suggest also Ms. Yingluck was under oath reading her defence statement?

EDIT correct 30 billion into 320 billion, sorry typoes can happen

Edited January 10, 2015 by rubl

[casualbiker]

Supremacy of the law?

More like supremacy of the junta!

She hasn't fled there's been no tears just grace and dignity and this farce is only going to make her more popular than ever before no matter which way it goes.

The self proclaimed peoples champion hides behind a monks robe ignoring court summonses and currying favour for his divisive efforts in bringing down Thailands elected government while this lady stands face to face with her accusers.

If the general thought he would wipe the Shinawatras off the political map then sadly for the junta and yellow dems the complete reverse is happening.

So you think that the PM and the Chairperson of the Rice pledging committee have nothing to answer for regarding the rice pledging?

[dean008]

I am neither red nor yellow, but if she failed to address issues she should have been challenged. If you failed to challenge her, then perhaps its time to look in the mirror, or perhaps the process is deficient? I really do not know.

I know one thing though. If I was in charge (puppet or not) of a coup, I would have asserted my authority by now and instead of creating a bicycle lane that causes traffic chaos, or making daft suggestions about indian wedding tourists, I would have locked up the likes of Yingluck at the outset, dealt with the fallout and moved on. Why on earth leave it so long?

[casualbiker]

I am neither red nor yellow, but if she failed to address issues she should have been challenged. If you failed to challenge her, then perhaps its time to look in the mirror, or perhaps the process is deficient? I really do not know.

I know one thing though. If I was in charge (puppet or not) of a coup, I would have asserted my authority by now and instead of creating a bicycle lane that causes traffic chaos, or making daft suggestions about indian wedding tourists, I would have locked up the likes of Yingluck at the outset, dealt with the fallout and moved on. Why on earth leave it so long?

She and the government were challenged in a very interesting way. A Democrat MP went to a grain store and got a bag of rice, he took it to the Parliament session that was discussing the rice pledging and in front of all he opened it to show spoilt rice.. Phua Thai total response.

They wanted him arrested for theft of the bag of rice!!!!

[Alwyn]

One of the dems personal attack dogs in full attack mode!

[Tatsujin]

Rewriting my posts personal insults?

That's what we free thinking posters on here are use to yellow dem supporters.

Can't win won't win so just try and censor other posters or insult them.

That is the trait of a loser who is out of ammo!

You my friend are so far away from being a free thinker it's laughable.

And I'll say again, cos it's obviously not filtered through all the brainwashing you've received, just because someone is anti-Thaksin does NOT automatically make them a yellow supporter.

It amazes me how so many (of what I would assume are reasonably well educated foreigners) can buy into the red/Thaksin mythos of them fighting for the poor and downtrodden. They are doing nothing more than smiling at you, shaking your hand with the left hand, whilst stealing the money from your pockets with the right hand. And it's going straight into their own pockets.

You my friend need to do a little more research on what Thaksin has done in the past and what his long term goals are. It's really not hard to see the bigger picture if you just open your eyes a little. He has not a care for anyone except himself, and how much money, power and adulation he can get. And he will sacrifice anyone and anything to achieve those ends, as has been seen time and time again.

[brucec64]

I am neither red nor yellow, but if she failed to address issues she should have been challenged. If you failed to challenge her, then perhaps its time to look in the mirror, or perhaps the process is deficient? I really do not know.

I know one thing though. If I was in charge (puppet or not) of a coup, I would have asserted my authority by now and instead of creating a bicycle lane that causes traffic chaos, or making daft suggestions about indian wedding tourists, I would have locked up the likes of Yingluck at the outset, dealt with the fallout and moved on. Why on earth leave it so long?

While you are at it, why not set up labor camps and re institute summary executions?

[casualbiker]

The PDRC protests and the coup have cost the economy three times as much as what the rice scheme has. Over two trillion baht. But since it was the elite backed PDRC and the military who ran up these bills none of the anti democracy, pro fascist, yellow shirt, NLA government backers on here, who spew their repetitive bile and propaganda, say a word about it. Their comments really have solidified my understanding of what happened in Europe in the 1930s, that is, seemingly educated and civilized westerners choosing totalitarian rule over imperfect but evolving democracy. You make me sick.

Really! Where are your facts and figures to confirm that this is fact not fiction!