Abbas dramatically challenges Israel after 10 cautious years

[webfact]

Abbas dramatically challenges Israel after 10 cautious years
KARIN LAUB, Associated Press
MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH, Associated Press

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — After a decade in power, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has little to show.

He is no closer to a deal on Palestinian statehood, has failed to reclaim the Gaza Strip from political rival Hamas and is being disparaged by some as a pliant guardian of Israeli security needs in the West Bank.

But the typically cautious 79-year-old dramatically changed course in the days before this week's tenth anniversary in office by signing up to the International Criminal Court. That could allow for war crimes complaints against Israel in what many believe is his strategy of last resort.

The court bid is part of a wider strategy Palestinians hope will bring international pressure to bear on Israel and improve their leverage in future statehood talks. They say the approach stems from frustration with two decades of failed talks overseen by staunch Israeli ally America. Israel accuses Abbas of trying to replace negotiations with a campaign to delegitimize the Jewish state.

The move carries unprecedented risks, but Palestinian officials say Abbas had to act.

"We are weak and the only way before us is to bring the Palestinian cause back to the international community," said one aide, speaking on condition of anonymity to describe Abbas' private views.

Palestinians close to Abbas say he has been under intense domestic pressure to challenge Israel since the summer's 50-day Gaza war between Israel and the Islamic militant Hamas group that killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, many of them civilians, along with 72 people on the Israeli side.

"He had a choice, whether he listens to the people and the leadership and the advisers, or he isolates himself further," said Hanan Ashrawi, a senior Palestine Liberation Organization official often briefed by Abbas.

The Israeli response to the court bid was swift. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu froze the monthly transfer of $120 million in taxes that Israel collects for the Palestinians, forcing the Palestinian Authority — propped up by foreign aid and chronically short of funds — to immediately halt salary payments for 153,000 government employees.

Many civil servants live month to month and have mixed feelings about joining the court.

Government employee Mohammed Jadallah, 49, a father of five already falling behind on loan payments, said Abbas hadn't done enough to explain his strategy to the suffering public.

In the long run, though, Abbas can count on public support as Palestinians "will never trade their national cause for salaries," Jadallah said.

Abbas, sworn in as president on Jan. 15, 2005, will spend his tenth anniversary Thursday in Cairo, appealing to Arab League officials to keep promises to give $100 million a month to make up for the Israeli sanctions. Arab countries have broken such promises in the past.

Netanyahu has no immediate plans to resume tax transfers, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon said. Withholding the money "is a way to express our deep displeasure at the kind of steps the Palestinians have been taking lately," he said.

The Palestinian Authority was set up in interim peace agreements in the 1990s as a stepping stone to Palestinian independence. Negotiations on a final deal repeatedly broke down, leaving the Palestinian Authority in place. It still administers 38 percent of the West Bank, but lost Gaza to a Hamas takeover in 2007.

If the Palestinian Authority were to dissolve over its money woes, Israel, as military occupier, would be responsible again for providing services to Palestinians, a costly task. Israel also would lose out on coordination with Abbas' security services, which has helped prevent militant attacks.

Nathan Thrall, an analyst at the International Crisis Group think tank, said he believes Israel wants the Palestinian Authority to survive and won't retaliate against Abbas too harshly. In joining the international court, Abbas took this into consideration, Thrall said.

Abbas has given no indication that he plans to step aside.

He was initially elected for four years, but stayed in office because the formation of rival Palestinian governments after the Hamas takeover of Gaza prevented new elections. He has not groomed a successor and instead has tried to beat back potential challengers.

Thrall also noted Abbas hasn't played his ultimate card against Netanyahu: ending security coordination. Such a move would bring down the Palestinian Authority, Thrall said, because almost every single Palestinian government action requires Israeli approval, from Abbas' travel in and out of the West Bank to sending Palestinian police cruisers from one town to another.

Israel holds national elections March 17. Netanyahu, who is seeking a third consecutive term, has refused to accept the pre-1967 line as a starting point for border talks and continued to build Jewish settlements on occupied lands in six years in power.

If he is re-elected, Abbas is bound to step up the campaign for greater recognition of a state of Palestine in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in 1967. The U.N. General Assembly recognized such a state in 2012.

Israeli critics of Abbas say he shares responsibility for failed negotiations, particularly after not accepting a 2008 offer by then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert for a state in Gaza, 95 percent of the West Bank and parts of Jerusalem. But Palestinians counter that there was no agreement on details at the time and that Olmert was a lame duck.

Since then, there have been no meaningful negotiations — and Palestinians say it is time for a change.

"We are willing to negotiate, but now in a different way, through an international conference or a collective process," said Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. ambassador.
___

Associated Press writer Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-01-13

[Costas2008]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

[mania]

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

[mania]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

US has gone beyond the claims of being a buddy.

especially when they so much as ask netanyahoo to stop for a moment the illegal settlements

as it is as counter productive as it is illegal & Net basically says up yours & btw thanks for the billions

of your taxpayers dollars

USA is waaaay past needing to sit this one out

[Jingthing]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

You're wrong. Israel and the USA are close allies indeed, that is true. It is not a servant and master relationship. That's actually offensive antisemitic rhetoric to suggest that Israel (code for Jews) controls the USA ... it goes back to classic fascist and Islamo-fascist hate speech wildly and falsely exaggerating Jewish global control.

I know this kind of anti-Israel rhetoric is very popular and trendy in Europe these days ... that doesn't make it true or fair.

Also keep in mind that while Jews are only 2 percent of the U.S. population, polling will show that a substantial majority of the American people do support the close relationship between the U.S. and Israel. Of course, details about the relationship are always open to debate as well they should be.

It would be fair to say that Israel has a powerful lobbying effort in Washington as do other issues, both foreign and domestic. But that's not what you said, is it?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Costas2008]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

You're wrong. Israel and the USA are close allies indeed, that is true. It is not a servant and master relationship. That's actually offensive antisemitic rhetoric to suggest that Israel (code for Jews) controls the USA ... it goes back to classic fascist and Islamo-fascist hate speech wildly and falsely exaggerating Jewish global control.

This is your problem JT.

You are and you will always be wearing blinkers.

Nothing to do being antisemitic and I never was.

It has to do with Israel as a country amongst the international community that they scarsely abide with international rules.

And stop crying trying to get the sympathy of being Jewish......it doesn't work any more.

[mania]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

You're wrong. Israel and the USA are close allies indeed, that is true. It is not a servant and master relationship. That's actually offensive antisemitic rhetoric to suggest that Israel (code for Jews) controls the USA ... it goes back to classic fascist and Islamo-fascist hate speech wildly and falsely exaggerating Jewish global control.

Also keep in mind that while Jews are only 2 percent of the U.S. population, polling will show that a substantial majority of the American people do support the close relationship between the U.S. and Israel. Of course, details about the relationship are always open to debate as well they should be.

Boom there it is...........You cant say sh!t about what you think of Israel's policies without this old canard antisemitic BS being trotted out

Take your code for Jews & the special decoder ring we obviously do not have & re-think this constant cry for sympathy. Israel deserves some

complaints about their actions same as anyone else.

Close allies? I think not & so do many Americans also think not.

We could list the reasons but I am sure you know them all & have labeled them appropriately to somehow be code for....well you know

[mania]

And stop crying trying to get the sympathy of being Jewish......it doesn't work any more.

This "it doesn't work any more" is correct but of course is immediately labeled a rise in antisemitism

[Jingthing]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

You're wrong. Israel and the USA are close allies indeed, that is true. It is not a servant and master relationship. That's actually offensive antisemitic rhetoric to suggest that Israel (code for Jews) controls the USA ... it goes back to classic fascist and Islamo-fascist hate speech wildly and falsely exaggerating Jewish global control.

This is your problem JT.

You are and you will always be wearing blinkers.

Nothing to do being antisemitic and I never was.

It has to do with Israel as a country amongst the international community that they scarsely abide with international rules.

And stop crying trying to get the sympathy of being Jewish......it doesn't work any more.

I'm calling out that your charge that Israel is the "master" and the USA is the "servant" as inflammatory and false. I did not say YOU were a Jew hater. I'm not talking about YOU. I don't really care about YOU. I do not know YOU.

We are talking about issues here.

I'm talking about what you wrote.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

It's been a long-standing trick of theirs to characterise ANY criticism of Israel as being "Anti-semitic".

That's sort of like saying any criticism of Britain or Norway is being "anti-caucasian".

It's basically f---ing rubbish.

[Choctastic]

Interesting take arjunadawn. Much of the Christian support stems from 'Zio-Priests', scumbag televangelists like Hagee (who is in bed with Adelson and the Zionist Organization of America) and the Scofield Bible trotting out poppycock about rapture and Armageddon. American Christianity is represented by Jeezus carrying an M-16. Another captured and corrupted institution.

Coming back to the topic... Do a search for 'abbas traitor' and you'll see where this fraud is coming from. I suspect this latest charade is doomed to failure and designed to try and give him some legitimacy.

[Ulysses G.]

Do a search for 'abbas traitor' and you'll see where this fraud is coming from. I suspect this latest charade is doomed to failure and designed to try and give him some legitimacy.

We agree on something for a change. That is his motivation and it is doomed to failure. It is never a good idea to take someone else to court for something that you are very guilty of yourself.

[Jingthing]

Maybe read the thread again. I never denied there is powerful pro Israel lobby. In fact I clearly acknowledged that. I objected to the slave/master rhetoric.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

But it's ridiculous to pretend they are the problem here.

It's also ridiculous to claim they are blameless.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Chicog

[Chicog]

Start with post #16. He can't even tell the difference between a Jew, an Israeli and a Semite.

You seem to be the one who can't tell the difference. This has been clarified repeatedly on this forum. Do you read anyone's posts other than your own?

Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1][2] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

Another invention that makes no eytomological sense. Not all Semites are Jews. It's just a bloody slogan and its roots lie in racism. Judaism is not a race.

No point pursuing that any further.

Complain to the dictionary people instead of repeating the same old silliness we've seen 100 times here about antisemitism not being only about Jews.

What a waste of bandwidth ... the same crapola so many times. Why? It's insane.

We do agree Jews are not a race ... rather are an ETHNO-RELIGIOUS group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

Seriously, you can try and dress it up anyway they tell you to, but it's a religion.

We shall have to agree to differ on that one.

[Chicog]

But it's ridiculous to pretend they are the problem here.

It's also ridiculous to claim they are blameless.

Another red herring. He quite clearly said no such thing. Did you even read his post?

Yes, and it's your post that is background chaff on this occasion since it contributes nothing.

[Steely Dan]

Ok, we admit it, Jews control the U.S, 9/11 was an inside job, indeed what may look to onlookers as demented frothing of tinfoil hatters suffering from Israel derangement syndrome has a basis in fact.

Happy? Well perhaps you can address the original topic now instead of ranting like imbeciles.

[Scott]

A huge number of off-topic posts and replies have been removed. Really a lot of posts.

You might want to re-read the OP and stay on topic.

[Chicog]

By the way, since you all seem to be desperately trying to put me in some kind of box of your choosing, you'll be pleased to hear I think they're both a bunch of intransigent b*stards and I'd start by forcing a single state on both of them called Isrestine or something, but they'd probably start by fighting over who has the most letters in the name.

[SOTIRIOS]

...considering the genocide that the Palestinians have been subjected to all these years....ironically.....

...at the hands of a nuclear power.....

..while the world sits idly by......

[Choctastic]

Anyone who actually thinks that Israel controls the USA and parrots that bit of foolishness is bordering on the lunatic fringe.

When the U.S. Senate votes a resolution of "support" to Israel 100-0 while it is slaughtering hundreds of civilians, you can understand why people think like this.

[As a general point, when anyone is that disparaging you know you should take a long hard look at what it is they don't want you to see.]

[JohnDodd]

@ SteelyDan, your first twelve words says it all, and your avatar is entirely appropiate.

[Jingthing]

Seriously, you can try and dress it up anyway they tell you to, but it's a religion.

We shall have to agree to differ on that one.

Again with the obsession with denigrating even the existence of the Jews as a PEOPLE (ethnic element).

There are millions of Jewish people who are secular / non-religious / even atheists.

For most Jewish people in the world, in the history of the Jewish people actually, it is something you are BORN into.

Of course there are converts, but percentage-wise very few. (It is very hard work and mostly for those marrying Jews.)

It is different than other major world religions that way.

Get a clue ... why do you think there are so FEW Jewish people? Always a tiny world minority.

Conversion isn't a Jewish thing.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

You've already accused me of supporting terrorism.

I'm starting to think you really don't understand what you are reading or saying.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Chicog

[ggold]

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

Are some people under the impression that the ICC had jurisdiction over boarders? The ICC do not have that sort of jurisdiction. They cannot determine boarders for any country. Especially those not signed up to the court.

[Chicog]

It's just a lame attempt by Abbas to show he is trying.

[mania]

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

Are some people under the impression that the ICC had jurisdiction over boarders? The ICC do not have that sort of jurisdiction. They cannot determine boarders for any country. Especially those not signed up to the court.

Under no false impressions here

But a court can deem a war criminal a war criminal.

If that war criminal travels outside their coccoon they will be arrested or on a no fly list

If another country would like to support a war criminal it may not sit well with its constituents.

Again before the local Thai Visa JDL ( Jewish defense league cadets) jump down the throats of supporters of a

alternative to decades of inaction...Realize we have all said BOTH PARTIES are to blame for decades of tit for tat

But NEITHER one has anywhere to go from here

So...............Let a 3rd party look at it & rule on it period.

Which is what my post that you quoted said......

[ggold]

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

Are some people under the impression that the ICC had jurisdiction over boarders? The ICC do not have that sort of jurisdiction. They cannot determine boarders for any country. Especially those not signed up to the court.

Under no false impressions here

But a court can deem a war criminal a war criminal.

If that war criminal travels outside their coccoon they will be arrested or on a no fly list

If another country would like to support a war criminal it may not sit well with its constituents.

Again before the local Thai Visa JDL ( Jewish defense league cadets) jump down the throats of supporters of a

alternative to decades of inaction...Realize we have all said BOTH PARTIES are to blame for decades of tit for tat

But NEITHER one has anywhere to go from here

So...............Let a 3rd party look at it & rule on it period.

Which is what my post that you quoted said......

But NEITHER one has anywhere to go from here

I would say that is wrong! from Israel's point of view there is still everything to play for. It is Abbas' who is trying to stay relevant against criticism from his own people and Hamas having it's own agenda in relation to Israel and the Palestinian people. It is the people who are being used to further the ambitions of Hamas and Abbas.

This is why his threats of handing back the keys to Israel over the West bank is Just that. The minute he hands back those keys any idea of a Palestinian state is effectively over.

[poweratradio]

I would have liked to see the USA stopping the aid to Israel and then I would have enjoyed the reaction of Mr Netanyahu.

But this will never happen.........they are their obedient servants after all.........

Why not? the Israel off spring run america and..........?

[mania]

But NEITHER one has anywhere to go from here

I would say that is wrong! from Israel's point of view there is still everything to play for.

Well of course from "their" point of view they would....& that is half the problem.

Fact is it has been decades & thousand upon thousands of dead bodies to show for it.