Chiang Mai retirement visa office still accepting proof income from us consul letter ?

[jameson2wheels]

Excuse me first if posted in wrong place. Simply want to know if income letter from embassy still all thats needed in CM..I mistakenly left Thaiville and didnt buy a reentry visa..family emergency i was a little rattled...and now guess that i have to completely reapply for the same retirement visa i got in CM a year ago...any new news from the great north on retirement visa requirements ~ changes ??

[northernjohn]

Yes the income letter from the consulate is still good.

For the rest of the paper work I would imagine it is still the same.

Can't say for sure you might need to get a medical.

Good luck.

[jameson2wheels]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

[Trujillo]

I assume you are going to get the visa outside Thailand since that's where you must be. I was refused a retirement visa about 6 years ago in Los Angeles because I have failed to get a police report (which my local copper in Thailand immigration said I didn't need).

Better to have too much than not enough.

[northernjohn]

I assume you are going to get the visa outside Thailand since that's where you must be. I was refused a retirement visa about 6 years ago in Los Angeles because I have failed to get a police report (which my local copper in Thailand immigration said I didn't need).

Better to have too much than not enough.

Yes I got my retirement Visa in Canada and had to have a local police check. Also a signed statement by a Notary that I was who I was. I don't think they are required when received here.

[NancyL]

It would be a good idea to apply to the Honorary Consulate in Portland, Oregon by mail for a single-entry 90-day O visa "for the purpose of investigating retirement" prior to coming. That's quicker and easier than getting a O-A visa from the actual Thai Consulate in L.A. (They won't issue a 90-day O visa, just the O-A for retirement) No police report or medical certificate needed for the O-visa. Then you can use the income letter to get a 12-month retirement extension here in Chiang Mai. Recent reports are that CM Immigration is still accepting the U.S. consulate letter, but may ask to see evidence that you're spending money in Thailand -- thus they may request to look at a local bankbook or ATM withdrawals, etc. But, reports of this happening are very rare.

It is no longer possible to convert a tourist visa or visa-exempt entry (30 day stamp) into an O-visa for retirement here in Chiang Mai. That changed effective December 1, 2014. Now you have to go to Bangkok to do that AND return 15 days later to actually pick up your O visa. That's right, TWO trips to Bangkok.

Two bad the OP was rattled by the family emergency when leaving. You can always buy a re-entry permit at the counter just to the left of international security screening, just before the final passport check on the second floor of CM airport. It's easy to miss, though, if you have a lot on your mind and are focused on getting on the flight.

Edited January 18, 2015 by NancyL

[slipperylobster]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

[bangmai]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

yes, I got mine from the Kalorama Consular Affairs Office, also. Just got a new one year stamp last weekend, 4 days before the visa expired. So for 255 usd..(including 55 for med cert.); I am getting 23 months 9 days in LOS. 800K doesn't even have to be here until the 20th month. Nothing needed to be notarized in DC....I just printed out a bank statement, she has an adding machine at the window to convert. LA may still require notarization of your signature, but is still straightforward, I used to get tourist visas from them with no return ticket, and they don't do that in DC.

[slipperylobster]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

yes, I got mine from the Kalorama Consular Affairs Office, also. Just got a new one year stamp last weekend, 4 days before the visa expired. So for 255 usd..(including 55 for med cert.); I am getting 23 months 9 days in LOS. 800K doesn't even have to be here until the 20th month. Nothing needed to be notarized in DC....I just printed out a bank statement, she has an adding machine at the window to convert. LA may still require notarization of your signature, but is still straightforward, I used to get tourist visas from them with no return ticket, and they don't do that in DC.

Thanks for the confirmation....that effectively allows 2 years....without showing bank deposits... a definite plus.

I know she will have to open up a bank account here 3 months prior to the end of the two years, if she wants to stay longer than that.

It took only 2 weeks to get her "OA" in Washington. (We notarized everything...just in case). She might be coming before the end of the month. 90 years old...but not too old to beat the sub zero weather in Zerocuse, New York.

Edited January 18, 2015 by slipperylobster

[bangmai]

just to be clear..you gotta show them the equivalent of 800K in a US Bank. Also, you can get a human on the phone in LA; not so easy in DC. Walk-in service was 2 days for O-A. They don't take cash.

[NancyL]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

You're correct about getting nearly two years of "life" out of a O-A visa, if you leave and re-enter just before the visa expires. It's as much a "retirement visa" as anything else is. It's a non-immigration O visa with the letter "A" meaning that she's "already approved" for entry for 12 months.

After two years, your Mom won't need to have both a 800,000 baht bank balance and an Income letter -- one or the other to obtain a 12-month retirement extension. If she uses a consular income letter, then it's a good idea to show that she has a local bank account and local financial activity, but it certainly doesn't need to be an aged 800,000 baht bank account. If she has that, then she won't need a Consular letter.

Edited January 18, 2015 by NancyL

[bangmai]

but no one with the 800k, and required letter from the bank has had to show anything else (financially), can't say the same for the letter from the US Consulate, based on reports here.

[northernjohn]

but no one with the 800k, and required letter from the bank has had to show anything else (financially), can't say the same for the letter from the US Consulate, based on reports here.

Not sure where you got your reports. I have the letter from the Consulate and that is all I need. I do have the papers to prove it but the time I tried to show them to the immigration they refused to look at them.

I heard a rumor about two years ago and that is exactly what it was a rumor. Besides what is the difference if you have them weather they ask for them or not? I take them with me any way just in case. No harm done being ready.

Mainly I am writing this to assure people that they do not need a bank account for a one year retirement Visa or one year extension. It is just one of two ways to get it. You do not even need a bank account here if you have the proof of income. I have never been asked for proof of one and this thread is the first time I have heard it even suggested I need one.

I do have one question of Nancy or one of the moderators who specialize in immigration. Will the money in a foreign bank suffice or must it be in a Thai bank?

One other point I have heard on Thai Visa is if you are using the letter from the bank you must have a bank book with the EXACT same amount of money in it as the letter. There have been a few posters who said they had to go back to the bank and get there bank book brought in to line with the letter.

Edit

That could have been a Thai Visa falsehood or an Immigration officer on a bad day. They have been known to have them.

Edited January 18, 2015 by northernjohn

[uptheos]

Should immigration ever bring in a rule demanding to see evidence of income from US citizens, the ex pat population of CM will decrease significantly

[slipperylobster]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

You're correct about getting nearly two years of "life" out of a O-A visa, if you leave and re-enter just before the visa expires. It's as much a "retirement visa" as anything else is. It's a non-immigration O visa with the letter "A" meaning that she's "already approved" for entry for 12 months.

After two years, your Mom won't need to have both a 800,000 baht bank balance and an Income letter -- one or the other to obtain a 12-month retirement extension. If she uses a consular income letter, then it's a good idea to show that she has a local bank account and local financial activity, but it certainly doesn't need to be an aged 800,000 baht bank account. If she has that, then she won't need a Consular letter.

Her income is not enough. She would need the bank balance. She could "fib a bit" and pretend she has enough. The consulate letter...with the "imagined income" would be simple enough. I suppose anyone could "pretend" they have enough, and sign that consulate letter. My mom and I are just too dang honest.

I wonder how many US expats are "imagining their income" ...and working just off that consular affidavit.

[slipperylobster]

just to be clear..you gotta show them the equivalent of 800K in a US Bank. Also, you can get a human on the phone in LA; not so easy in DC. Walk-in service was 2 days for O-A. They don't take cash.

Actually...my mom was able to qualify with just a combination of income and money in the bank. No need to have exactly 800,000 baht in the bank if you are receiving a social security check. It took 2 weeks because we mailed it in. No need to go in person, as long as you do the math right, and dot the i's/cross the t's on your application. Simply a formality.

Edited January 18, 2015 by slipperylobster

[slipperylobster]

Immigration is requiring this in other offices threwout Thailand. Stand by

I remember they did in Udon.

[khwaibah]

Should immigration ever bring in a rule demanding to see evidence of income from US citizens, the ex pat population of CM will decrease significantly

Numerous Immigration offices threw out Thailand are now requiring back up documentation for ANY income letter from ANY embassey. And they are not just accepting a term account they want to see what your living on. Chiang Mai your on the hit list.

[uptheos]

Should immigration ever bring in a rule demanding to see evidence of income from US citizens, the ex pat population of CM will decrease significantly

Numerous Immigration offices threw out Thailand are now requiring back up documentation for ANY income letter from ANY embassey. And they are not just accepting a term account they want to see what your living on. Chiang Mai your on the hit list.

There is no legal requirement as yet to show that you spend one baht in Thailand, just the need to meet the income or cash requirements.

[jameson2wheels]

last year i got mine in Chiang Mai..no problem...i was only looking for feedback if they still accept letter from consulate as proof, and if any new regulations are imposed since i left 5 months ago, thanks

[khwaibah]

Should immigration ever bring in a rule demanding to see evidence of income from US citizens, the ex pat population of CM will decrease significantly

Numerous Immigration offices threw out Thailand are now requiring back up documentation for ANY income letter from ANY embassey. And they are not just accepting a term account they want to see what your living on. Chiang Mai your on the hit list.

There is no legal requirement as yet to show that you spend one baht in Thailand, just the need to meet the income or cash requirements.

Immigration has always had the right to request more proof and legality by your definition has nothing to do with it. The man with the stamp has always had the power and when he says prove the income of this letter and you can not do then out you go. There are attest 12 immigration offices doing this. Coming to an immigration office near you.

[hml367]

Thanks...i heard while gone that they were in some offices also asking for bank statement as well as income from consulate..i bet they are still friendly and helpful and a crowd everyday.

I had to provide bank statements for my "One year extension" on a "90 Non O Visa", along with the consular letter.

I do not know about a "Non OA". My 90 year old mom just got one. That is actually not a retirement visa...but an extended stay on a Non Immigrant OA...that she got in Washington DC, just last week. She did that with just bank statements...no consular letter.

As for as the Non OA (long stay based on retirement), I believe she is good for the year...with 90 day reporting. I also understand that, if she leaves just before the end of one year...and goes to Laos, she will get stamped back in for another year.....without showing any income whatsoever. So in effect...the Non OA (Retirement) is good for two years...with no further proof of income required. After two years, she must show a bank balance here in Thailand...as well as proof of income, and probably a consular letter.

Correct me if I am wrong. (gently).

You're correct about getting nearly two years of "life" out of a O-A visa, if you leave and re-enter just before the visa expires. It's as much a "retirement visa" as anything else is. It's a non-immigration O visa with the letter "A" meaning that she's "already approved" for entry for 12 months.

After two years, your Mom won't need to have both a 800,000 baht bank balance and an Income letter -- one or the other to obtain a 12-month retirement extension. If she uses a consular income letter, then it's a good idea to show that she has a local bank account and local financial activity, but it certainly doesn't need to be an aged 800,000 baht bank account. If she has that, then she won't need a Consular letter.

"one or the other" ? What about a combination?

[uptheos]

Should immigration ever bring in a rule demanding to see evidence of income from US citizens, the ex pat population of CM will decrease significantly

Numerous Immigration offices threw out Thailand are now requiring back up documentation for ANY income letter from ANY embassey. And they are not just accepting a term account they want to see what your living on. Chiang Mai your on the hit list.

There is no legal requirement as yet to show that you spend one baht in Thailand, just the need to meet the income or cash requirements.

Immigration has always had the right to request more proof and legality by your definition has nothing to do with it. The man with the stamp has always had the power and when he says prove the income of this letter and you can not do then out you go. There are attest 12 immigration offices doing this. Coming to an immigration office near you.

They want to see what I'm living on?

I have the required 800,000 baht in the bank and my wife supports me........nothing illegal there.

[NancyL]

If someone is using the income method to show financial worth with a Consular letter, there is no requirement that someone have a Thai bank account. However, as mentioned the Immigration Officer processing the application always has the right to ask for "proof" of income and there is no published "standard of proof" For U.S. citizens, you could bring your latest IRS 1040 income tax filing with attached 1099 forms showing your annual pension income (that's what Hubby does, but he's never been asked to produce any proof). I have a 800,000 baht bank account that I never touch and, believe it or not, I was once asked "how do you live since you never use this money?", so I said "Husband's pension is large enough for both" and produced the passbook for our joint Bangkok Bank account which they never opened.

In the case of an elderly women living with her adult children, I really don't think they're going to ask for "proof" that she's bringing money into Thailand or has a local bank account. They know she isn't going to be a burden on Thai society since her adult children are caring for her.

Their big concern is in preventing retirees from working -- thus their question of me about why I never touched my 800,000 baht bank account -- and also their other concern is in preventing retirees from creating unpaid bills at the government hospitals -- thus asking for proof of financial worth from those who appear to be living on the edge.

As for Udon Thani-style "regulations" coming to Chiang Mai -- i.e. the need to have BOTH a year-round bank account of 800,000 baht locally AND income of 65,000 baht/mon or someh such similar nonsense -- I just don't see it happening here. That's not the official regulation. I think the CM office would have their hands full just questioning a few more people to show evidence of 65,000 baht/month income because sadly, yes, there are those who think it's OK to lie when they swear an oath to a U.S. Federal Officer.

[khwaibah]

If someone is using the income method to show financial worth with a Consular letter, there is no requirement that someone have a Thai bank account. However, as mentioned the Immigration Officer processing the application always has the right to ask for "proof" of income and there is no published "standard of proof" For U.S. citizens, you could bring your latest IRS 1040 income tax filing with attached 1099 forms showing your annual pension income (that's what Hubby does, but he's never been asked to produce any proof). I have a 800,000 baht bank account that I never touch and, believe it or not, I was once asked "how do you live since you never use this money?", so I said "Husband's pension is large enough for both" and produced the passbook for our joint Bangkok Bank account which they never opened.

In the case of an elderly women living with her adult children, I really don't think they're going to ask for "proof" that she's bringing money into Thailand or has a local bank account. They know she isn't going to be a burden on Thai society since her adult children are caring for her.

Their big concern is in preventing retirees from working -- thus their question of me about why I never touched my 800,000 baht bank account -- and also their other concern is in preventing retirees from creating unpaid bills at the government hospitals -- thus asking for proof of financial worth from those who appear to be living on the edge.

As for Udon Thani-style "regulations" coming to Chiang Mai -- i.e. the need to have BOTH a year-round bank account of 800,000 baht locally AND income of 65,000 baht/mon or someh such similar nonsense -- I just don't see it happening here. That's not the official regulation. I think the CM office would have their hands full just questioning a few more people to show evidence of 65,000 baht/month income because sadly, yes, there are those who think it's OK to lie when they swear an oath to a U.S. Federal Officer.

Same attitude was expressed on converting visa exempt and tourist visa over to the first part of a retirement extension. Guess what happened?

[CMBob]

Same attitude was expressed on converting visa exempt and tourist visa over to the first part of a retirement extension. Guess what happened?

Given the Thai law clearly offers the alternative (income or cash-in-the-bank), Nancy's comment is a bit more credible than your sky-is-falling prediction.

[moe666]

In Nov. preformed my annual extension of stay, used the letter from consulate no problem. I ws notasked for any proof of income although I always bring the proof with me. They now have a third person doing extensions of stay, they have dedicated one person for reservations and the two out front are now doing the walk in traffic. You will also have a photo taken of your smiling face on to their computer this is new from a year ago.

[NancyL]

Same attitude was expressed on converting visa exempt and tourist visa over to the first part of a retirement extension. Guess what happened?

Given the Thai law clearly offers the alternative (income or cash-in-the-bank), Nancy's comment is a bit more credible than your sky-is-falling prediction.

Khwaibah, I never expressed any confidence that CM Immigration would continue to be allowed to convert visa exempt and tourist visas to 90 day O visas as the first part of the retirement extension. I was very gratified that CM was able to continue the practice as it discontinued in other offices, but puzzled as to why the final OK was moved out of the local office and into the Region 5 office. That was the beginning of the end, actually. The handwriting was on the wall at that point and I think it may explain why the CM Immigration officials delayed the OK of the video of the 22 October meeting with the CM Expats Club. They've finally given their OK to post that video on-line -- but CEC has to edit the part about the two-step process.

We're working on that and hope to have it on the CEC website soon.

[elektrified]

just to be clear..you gotta show them the equivalent of 800K in a US Bank. Also, you can get a human on the phone in LA; not so easy in DC. Walk-in service was 2 days for O-A. They don't take cash.

It does not have to be in a USA bank. At least when I applied in Houston, Texas I was able to use my investments in Europe.

[elektrified]

You're correct about getting nearly two years of "life" out of a O-A visa, if you leave and re-enter just before the visa expires. It's as much a "retirement visa" as anything else is. It's a non-immigration O visa with the letter "A" meaning that she's "already approved" for entry for 12 months.

After two years, your Mom won't need to have both a 800,000 baht bank balance and an Income letter -- one or the other to obtain a 12-month retirement extension. If she uses a consular income letter, then it's a good idea to show that she has a local bank account and local financial activity, but it certainly doesn't need to be an aged 800,000 baht bank account. If she has that, then she won't need a Consular letter.

Her income is not enough. She would need the bank balance. She could "fib a bit" and pretend she has enough. The consulate letter...with the "imagined income" would be simple enough. I suppose anyone could "pretend" they have enough, and sign that consulate letter. My mom and I are just too dang honest.

I wonder how many US expats are "imagining their income" ...and working just off that consular affidavit.

They would be damn foolish if they did. Lying to the government is how they got all kinds of people including Martha Stewart, Bernard Ebbers, some high-profile doctors and on and on. Lying to the USA federal government is quite serious if caught.