"Watch Dog organizations will bring a heathy democracy," Deputy PM says

[Lite Beer]

"Watch Dog organizations will bring a heathy democracy," Deputy PM says

TRAT, 17 January 2015 (NNT) - Deputy Prime Minister Wisanu Krue-ngam today gave a special talk on “Watch Dog Organization: Hope after the National Reform”.

He explained that the new constitution is supposed to enhance people’s participation in the democratic process by allowing them to submit an impeachment petition against politicians, initiate law proposals, and even join in a check and balance procedure through the mechanism of a Watch Dog Organization.

“The organization functions as a coordinator among the government, the parliament and the people. Thus, it must be independent from political influences and equipped with sufficient authority to investigate power abuse. The organization is considered a hope to help maintain a healthy democracy after the national reform. Moreover, a watch dog like the one on human rights should work in cooperation with the ombudsman like in several countries,” Wisanu said.

He also emphasized that the national reform might not be completed within the limited timeframe; however, it is at least a shield for the next government to move on the reform in order to build a secure country, wealthy society and sustainable nation in accordance with the Prime Minister’s intention.

-- NNT 2015-01-18

[NongKhaiKid]

All the average Watch Dog organisation does is ' watch ' as in many cases they can't or won't take action and when they do actually try the system is set to thwart them.

[aparasher]

I think the meaning of democracy is used so loosely everywhere that it has become a joke.

Democracy comes with responsibility for each individual involved to make a voice and take action for just. Democracy should be illegal when sense of democracy is introduced either without understanding of this responsibility, or, introducing fear by violence, or, can be bought.

So as Nongkhaikid said, the watchdog will never be independent in a corrupt society and will only be a puppet of people in power who are puppets of people with money.

[Thailand]

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

[chainarong]

Watch dog organizations , depends on how many watch dogs you have , will it be like Communist Russia not trusting your own family if you speak out on a subject , fearing you will get reported to the chief head honcho for reprogramming, or will these watch dogs actually have a purpose other than spy and instil fear in the community, your call Prayut- O with Democracy which seems to be the most loosely used word in Thailand, you have watch dogs that are there to protect and help the people not report them.

[Tatsujin]

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

Flawed it was indeed. But just because you've been voted into power, doesn't then give you the right to rape and pillage for the benefit of themselves under the guise of "democracy" or "the people's mandate".

Governing is about representing the "people" and doing things for the benefit of them and the country as a whole. Not doing whatever the hell you want and using the "we have the people's mandate" as a whitewash excuse for anything and everything they do/did.

Hard choices need to be made here for the long term improvement, development and benefit of the country as a whole. I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division. I guess that "self-sacrifice" and "honesty" within Politicians has all but disappeared in this day and age.

[Caveat Emptor]

Watch dog organizations , depends on how many watch dogs you have , will it be like Communist Russia not trusting your own family if you speak out on a subject , fearing you will get reported to the chief head honcho for reprogramming, or will these watch dogs actually have a purpose other than spy and instil fear in the community, your call Prayut- O with Democracy which seems to be the most loosely used word in Thailand, you have watch dogs that are there to protect and help the people not report them.

Yes, democracy and happiness are now the most overused words here and it won't be long before superlatives about the PM are rivaling them.

Some of this forum's posters will help with that.

[WhizBang]

Wow, the junta's propaganda machine has been working overtime lately.

[Roadman]

I think the meaning of democracy is used so loosely everywhere that it has become a joke.

Democracy comes with responsibility for each individual involved to make a voice and take action for just. Democracy should be illegal when sense of democracy is introduced either without understanding of this responsibility, or, introducing fear by violence, or, can be bought.

So as Nongkhaikid said, the watchdog will never be independent in a corrupt society and will only be a puppet of people in power who are puppets of people with money.

Correct ...but making that observation correct does not provide a solution, so what should the Junta do? Walk away and let the country back on a path to self destruction and become a fugitive criminals dictatorial state as it was before Prayuth intervened. Or try and find the best solution for Thailand (remembering Thailand as you have indicated has a large population who do not understand democracy) in the interim with that interim being that period of time of whatever it is from when elections are held until Thai society or at least the voting majority have become sufficiently understanding of its democratic obligations, with that best interim solution being perhaps as is being proposed a watch dog group....which I agree with as the best of a mess as long as the watch dogs are giving teeth through likes of the NACC who have to be kept out of the reach of the biggest criminals being the past array of politicians...be that Thaksin's crims or the Democrats stooges. Simply stating democracy should be illegal until those values are present only leaves us with the status quo of a junta government which while it is better than a Thaksin dictatorial ship is still not acceptable long term.

[Snig27]

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

Flawed it was indeed. But just because you've been voted into power, doesn't then give you the right to rape and pillage for the benefit of themselves under the guise of "democracy" or "the people's mandate".

Governing is about representing the "people" and doing things for the benefit of them and the country as a whole. Not doing whatever the hell you want and using the "we have the people's mandate" as a whitewash excuse for anything and everything they do/did.

Hard choices need to be made here for the long term improvement, development and benefit of the country as a whole. I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division. I guess that "self-sacrifice" and "honesty" within Politicians has all but disappeared in this day and age.

Yes, dreadful things like making the senate elected and fully representative as it would be in any reasonable democracy. And you can make as many noises as you want about "doing things for the benefit" but only a fool would argue that Thailand didn't advance further economically, and infrastructure wise during the Thaksin/Shin years than at any other time in its messy and bloody history. Not only that but a voice was given to a vast part of the nation that had been denied it - often at the point of gun, or in the 70s and 80s with napalm - forever before. So, as you say, it's about representing the people, not just the tiny self-serving elite which is where this current process is intended to revert the nation to.

As to watchdogs - this current lot have blocked one of the most globally regarded watchdogs - HRW. The law also ensures that any such watchdog needs to be very careful in making any meaningful criticism unless they find themselves in front of a court under an odious certain law designed to heavily restrict any such process.

[The stuttering parrot]

It's funny how the junta cheerleaders drool and salivate every time the propaganda machine churns another article out and actually support them yet they conviently forget that the very same freedom and democracy they enjoyed in their home country has been ripped away from the thai people no matter who you support.

Shameful actually!

[15Peter20]

These people pay lip service to democracy whilst all the while maintaining the right to subvert and destroy it.

[Tatsujin]

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

Flawed it was indeed. But just because you've been voted into power, doesn't then give you the right to rape and pillage for the benefit of themselves under the guise of "democracy" or "the people's mandate".

Governing is about representing the "people" and doing things for the benefit of them and the country as a whole. Not doing whatever the hell you want and using the "we have the people's mandate" as a whitewash excuse for anything and everything they do/did.

Hard choices need to be made here for the long term improvement, development and benefit of the country as a whole. I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division. I guess that "self-sacrifice" and "honesty" within Politicians has all but disappeared in this day and age.

Yes, dreadful things like making the senate elected and fully representative as it would be in any reasonable democracy. And you can make as many noises as you want about "doing things for the benefit" but only a fool would argue that Thailand didn't advance further economically, and infrastructure wise during the Thaksin/Shin years than at any other time in its messy and bloody history. Not only that but a voice was given to a vast part of the nation that had been denied it - often at the point of gun, or in the 70s and 80s with napalm - forever before. So, as you say, it's about representing the people, not just the tiny self-serving elite which is where this current process is intended to revert the nation to.

As to watchdogs - this current lot have blocked one of the most globally regarded watchdogs - HRW. The law also ensures that any such watchdog needs to be very careful in making any meaningful criticism unless they find themselves in front of a court under an odious certain law designed to heavily restrict any such process.

You obviously missed the crucial sentence in my post:

"I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division."

And yes, I agree, Thailand did make great strides forwards (in some respects) under the Thaksin-aligned Governments, what most/some didn't like however was the blatant self-enrichment that knew no bounds whilst that was all happening. And yes, I know, it's not much different with a non-Thaksin aligned Government, it just didn't somehow seem quite so excessive and blatant.

[Suffinator]

“The organization functions as a coordinator among the government, the parliament and the people. Thus, it must be independent from political influences and equipped with sufficient authority to investigate power abuse. The organization is considered a hope to help maintain a healthy democracy after the national reform. Moreover, a watch dog like the one on human rights should work in cooperation with the ombudsman like in several countries,” Wisanu said.

Actually a pretty good idea. The difficulty here is finding the right people; those who are not and cannot be corrupted and those who are not and cannot be intimidated. Ombudsman's in other countries are generally not subjected to brown envelopes and most do not fear of being assassinated if they don't play ball.

Thailand will first have to weed out corruption and dismantle elite rule before anything resembling a democracy can be achieved.

[Suffinator]

I think the meaning of democracy is used so loosely everywhere that it has become a joke.

Democracy comes with responsibility for each individual involved to make a voice and take action for just. Democracy should be illegal when sense of democracy is introduced either without understanding of this responsibility, or, introducing fear by violence, or, can be bought.

So as Nongkhaikid said, the watchdog will never be independent in a corrupt society and will only be a puppet of people in power who are puppets of people with money.

Correct ...but making that observation correct does not provide a solution, so what should the Junta do? Walk away and let the country back on a path to self destruction and become a fugitive criminals dictatorial state as it was before Prayuth intervened. Or try and find the best solution for Thailand (remembering Thailand as you have indicated has a large population who do not understand democracy) in the interim with that interim being that period of time of whatever it is from when elections are held until Thai society or at least the voting majority have become sufficiently understanding of its democratic obligations, with that best interim solution being perhaps as is being proposed a watch dog group....which I agree with as the best of a mess as long as the watch dogs are giving teeth through likes of the NACC who have to be kept out of the reach of the biggest criminals being the past array of politicians...be that Thaksin's crims or the Democrats stooges. Simply stating democracy should be illegal until those values are present only leaves us with the status quo of a junta government which while it is better than a Thaksin dictatorial ship is still not acceptable long term.

The Junta should never have been involved. Yes the government was corrupt and self-serving but ultimately the were legitimately voted in... unfortunately by a largely uneducated populace.

This issue here is one of learning by mistakes or repeating them until you hit the precipice. Thai society is generally dogged by the lack of education which in turn is deliberately manufactured so that the ruling classes can convince them to vote in their favour ... the rice pledge was what go YS voted in and no Thai farmer could of ever comprehended the economic consequences due to the lack of basic education.

We've seen the merry-go-round of elected government then coup many times in the last few decades and this will unfortunately continue whilst the ruling classes hold such a grip and deny basic education that would allow the Thai electorate an informed choice. The real fear here is how this will transcend over the next decade ... will we see more of the same which will eventually destroy the country and its democracy that will ultimately lead to civil war ... we hope not but the writing is on the wall but in my view the elites will never give up the power they hold and once it does all go to the wall they'll be leaving in their private jets whilst Thais will be killing Thais on the street.

[klauskunkel]

Watch Dog organizations

Don't use that expression, you might roil the Muslim world. Use 'Watch Goat organizations'.

Just preempting, is all.

[wabothai]

No watchdog organizations needed, thaivisa will do.

[manhood]

There is no democraxy without free press! that's what this country need and a free press has a duty for the whole country and their people! Investigating journalism is needed by done by journalists who understand their job and that must be far from jellow press. Either the people in this country have to learn how to understand free press as well and need to learn what democracy can do for them and for the country!

[rickirs]

"a watch dog like the one on human rights should work in cooperation with the ombudsman like in several countries,”

You mean like the current Ombudman General Wittawat Ratchatanan ?

In any case the NCPO will remain the watchdog in one form or another and continue its absolute power over any elected government. So what's the point - democratic window dressing to soothe Western nations' sensitivity toward the destruction of democracy in Thailand?

[lvr181]

[smutcakes]

I think the meaning of democracy is used so loosely everywhere that it has become a joke.

Democracy comes with responsibility for each individual involved to make a voice and take action for just. Democracy should be illegal when sense of democracy is introduced either without understanding of this responsibility, or, introducing fear by violence, or, can be bought.

So as Nongkhaikid said, the watchdog will never be independent in a corrupt society and will only be a puppet of people in power who are puppets of people with money.

Correct ...but making that observation correct does not provide a solution, so what should the Junta do? Walk away and let the country back on a path to self destruction and become a fugitive criminals dictatorial state as it was before Prayuth intervened. Or try and find the best solution for Thailand (remembering Thailand as you have indicated has a large population who do not understand democracy) in the interim with that interim being that period of time of whatever it is from when elections are held until Thai society or at least the voting majority have become sufficiently understanding of its democratic obligations, with that best interim solution being perhaps as is being proposed a watch dog group....which I agree with as the best of a mess as long as the watch dogs are giving teeth through likes of the NACC who have to be kept out of the reach of the biggest criminals being the past array of politicians...be that Thaksin's crims or the Democrats stooges. Simply stating democracy should be illegal until those values are present only leaves us with the status quo of a junta government which while it is better than a Thaksin dictatorial ship is still not acceptable long term.

Given nearly everyone at the decision end of Thailand is bent as a nine bob note, i would be interested as to why you think you could trust either the NACC, the military, or any other body for that matter?

[fasteddie]

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

Flawed it was indeed. But just because you've been voted into power, doesn't then give you the right to rape and pillage for the benefit of themselves under the guise of "democracy" or "the people's mandate".

Governing is about representing the "people" and doing things for the benefit of them and the country as a whole. Not doing whatever the hell you want and using the "we have the people's mandate" as a whitewash excuse for anything and everything they do/did.

Hard choices need to be made here for the long term improvement, development and benefit of the country as a whole. I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division. I guess that "self-sacrifice" and "honesty" within Politicians has all but disappeared in this day and age.

Yes, dreadful things like making the senate elected and fully representative as it would be in any reasonable democracy. And you can make as many noises as you want about "doing things for the benefit" but only a fool would argue that Thailand didn't advance further economically, and infrastructure wise during the Thaksin/Shin years than at any other time in its messy and bloody history. Not only that but a voice was given to a vast part of the nation that had been denied it - often at the point of gun, or in the 70s and 80s with napalm - forever before. So, as you say, it's about representing the people, not just the tiny self-serving elite which is where this current process is intended to revert the nation to.

As to watchdogs - this current lot have blocked one of the most globally regarded watchdogs - HRW. The law also ensures that any such watchdog needs to be very careful in making any meaningful criticism unless they find themselves in front of a court under an odious certain law designed to heavily restrict any such process.

"but only a fool would argue that Thailand didn't advance further economically, and infrastructure wise during the Thaksin/Shin years than at any other time in its messy and bloody history."

True, but there'll be plenty of "fools" along to tell you otherwise.

[Wilsonandson]

Thaksin had some good ideas but its a pity he got greedy and used his position to increase his personal and families wealth. He was a good PM that went corrupt.

[ggt]

There is an internet posting called "USA Watchdog" where government propaganda is sifted thru and you get a more realistic appraisal of an economic event or government overreach...

So far...this and other sites like USA Watchdog have not been shutdown...but as governments become more insecure one might expect these beacons for hope and truth to be shut down..."in the national interest" of the US...

Would be good it Thailand allows free expression of its policies without government intervention...probably not going to happen...

[tbthailand]

“The organization functions as a coordinator among the government, the parliament and the people. Thus, it must be independent from political influences and equipped with sufficient authority to investigate power abuse.

translation,

must be independent from political influence :

means completely removed from the electorate and therefore (1) not responsible to nor appointed by the electorate and their representatives, and (2) under the direct control of, and appointed by the anti-democratic elites.

coordinator among the government, parliament, and the people :

serves as a tool to (1) nullify any actions by an elected government which the elites don't agree with, and (2) to function as an attack dog rather than a watch dog when the elites put on the full-court press to remove said government undemocratically.

This will ensure a healthy 'Thai-style' democracy ...

[bangon04]

Meanwhile a "free" press which asks difficult questions is to be discouraged and suppressed at all costs...

[MiclB]

Governing (Democratically) is about representing the "people"( who democratically elected same) and doing things for the benefit of (all of)them and the country as a whole. (additions in parens)

I agree that hard choices need to be made; historically, successful democratic countries went thru some rather extended periods of allowing the populate to learn, grow, and mature into their democracy without being interrupted by setbacks like dissolving constitutions and the like.

Tatsujin, on 18 Jan 2015 - 07:48, said:

Thailand, on 18 Jan 2015 - 06:58, said:

Don't you just love all the democracy talk from guys who were responsible for it's removal, however flawed it may have been!

Flawed it was indeed. But just because you've been voted into power, doesn't then give you the right to rape and pillage for the benefit of themselves under the guise of "democracy" or "the people's mandate".

Governing is about representing the "people" and doing things for the benefit of them and the country as a whole. Not doing whatever the hell you want and using the "we have the people's mandate" as a whitewash excuse for anything and everything they do/did.

Hard choices need to be made here for the long term improvement, development and benefit of the country as a whole. I don't see either side achieving this, only promoting more division. I guess that "self-sacrifice" and "honesty" within Politicians has all but disappeared in this day and age.

[djjamie]

It's funny how the junta cheerleaders drool and salivate every time the propaganda machine churns another article out and actually support them yet they conviently forget that the very same freedom and democracy they enjoyed in their home country has been ripped away from the thai people no matter who you support.

Shameful actually!

As shameful as making stories up about me and then when asked to prove it you ignore me? Kinda like that?

I drool and salivate because the Junta will restore the freedom and democracy I enjoyed in my own country.

I bet after reform I will be able to freely see Ahbisit speak in Khon Kaen without me and my family being threatened by red shirts with my children crying as we turned to go home. I am now freely able to walk all parts of Bangkok without the fear of terrorists "accidentally" killing me or my children. I enjoy the freedom of criticizing the Junta on TVF and BP as you do yet for 12 months when I was a member of thairedshirts.org not one single comment of mine was posted even when I offered a fair, balanced, respectful criticism of them. Then when I signed in as someone else with my first post stating "I love the UDD for helping the farmers" (this was the same day the UDD intimidated and threatened the farmers if they went to Bangkok to protest) was posted. They even liked it…Shameful really.

What are these freedoms you had before that you don't have now? How are you so terribly repressed now? What has actually been ripped away from you after May the 22nd? As for the Thai people. I suggest the protests are fresh in their minds were 28 people died and 700 were killed. Should we go back to that prematurely? Do you want to see more innocent people dead? Shameful if you do.

Feel free to answer me AFTER you address your accusation that I said yingluck was a convicted criminal….And should I respect your comments after you have proven you make hollow accusations about me to suit an agenda. Such a typical PTP ethos. Shameful really.

Akin to a PTP minister saying white lies are OK to install confidence in the people or when a PTP minister says don't believe export figures that proved I lied. Both shameful really.