17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[bigt116]

The Police don't care about foreigners working here or whether or not we are contributing financially to the Thai government they were arrested because the police never got a kick back from their illegal work. As long as you pay, mai bpen rai.

I would love to see the BIB raid a few schools in Thailand and arrest the teachers working illegally in them . . . . .but that will never happen because it would mean all schools had to be legit and possibly pay the 'legal' farangs more.

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

You know the part in green because ? Or are you just making wild assumptions based on nothing but bar talk hearsay.

Why would they have to pay them more ? Teaching is exempt the minimum salary requirements for an extension of stay.

[mango66]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

do you have a problem with laws here ?

and how is it in your country ?

every foreigner can do what he want ??

[ggt]

They knew they were not playing by the rules...now they have been caught...time to pay the consequences...

[connda]

Throw the book at 'em!!

Signed,

A teacher who has spent more than 40,000+ baht over 13+ years on work permits--not to mention, the countless hours on documentation and trips to government offices.

If I can do it, they can do it.

Personally, I appreciate that you're doing it the right way. If Thai companies would follow the laws pertaining to obtaining work permits for foreign employees, this would not be an issue.

However, the employees get the book thrown at them, while the offending employer gets a 'hand-slap'. I'd like the criminal penalties to be the same for employers who fail to process work permits for their employees. Companies have no incentive to obtain WPs. Put some teeth in the law and equally sanction the employers, and the problem will end.

So fookhaht, thanks! Leading by example.

[mango66]

Bit counter productive, seems these guys were doing something that could be done from any country, kicking them out the country will not make jobs for Thais, they will just relocate their business, and not be spending money in the Kingdom.

Makes me wonder whether I should holiday in Thailand again, as I have a business and still need to run it even when on holiday.

if you have problem to keep law and order,

than better you are not here !!

[Jimbolai]

Next thing they outlaw is a retired guy walking around with a camera taking snapshots for the grand kids at home. He/she will be charged with taking a job from a Thai.

[Fullstop]

I thought they were working in Cyber Space....Has Thailand extended it's borders?

[spidermike007]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

actually they were committing a crime, they were working in thailand illegally

whether they were taking someone's job is irrelevant

its not an excuse to blame foreigners, the foreigners were breaking the law

the law in thailand is not based on whether someone is being harmed or not

however i agree that working here illegally is a bad move.

Did you read Greenchairs quote?

I just don't understand this. In section 4 of the alien work act it says. This act shall not apply to people in this category.

(6) people involved with things to benefit education or activities, sports etc as prescribed by royal decree. Which is talking about the constitutional right to give and receive knowledge. It is protected. Though thailand no longer has a constitution. The government says we can follow the existing acts as law. The national education act 18 (3) is a description of informal educators. And section 53 says anyone coming under 18 (3) does not need licence. If you read the informal education act and national act it says informal educators have the right to teach and receive money for their services. So that they are able to do their important work.

However you cannot work in a formal school without licences. That is highly illegal. However, you can act as an English consultant ,but you cannot contribute to the grade of the student because you are not a teacher in the formal meaning of the word.

[micmichd]

but why do it here? why not cambodia where you can be legal with no effort? surely siem reap has as much to offer as chiang mai. cost wise similar?

Then you should move to Cambodia or Burkina Faso or somewhere else. Thai government would still be able to get you, eg by milking Western Union or Visa or xx Credit card inc. or S.W.I.F.T.on every transaction to a Thai bank account or ATM. Tax Department is also part of the government, I guess.

[Cantankerous]

Impeach them...

[mgjackson69]

A good example of how stupid and out of date the law is, when it comes to work permits. To get a work-permit requires hirering 4 Thais. So that company, would need 68 Thais on the payroll to make them coffee.

The law as it is now, just not only keep investors and entrepreneurs away, it also reduces the willingness for any company who needs foreign help, to grow their company here. With the current economical situation, you have to wonder, when Thailand will start to see foreign companies (where jobs are not taken from Thais) as an asset to the country.

This company, will simply just relocate and do business from another country. And the benefit for Thailand from that is??????????????

The benefit for Thailand will be that those losers are not in the country any more.

[wolf5370]

There's something that really annoys me in this forum: All posters demand equal rights from Thai government, but when Thai laws get applied to them many Farangs complain. Do those Farangs want an Animal Farm where all are equal, just some foreigners a bit more equal?

How is your rant relevant to this topic; it only applies to foreigners - there is no such law for Thais.

[micmichd]

There's something that really annoys me in this forum: All posters demand equal rights from Thai government, but when Thai laws get applied to them many Farangs complain. Do those Farangs want an Animal Farm where all are equal, just some foreigners a bit more equal?

How is your rant relevant to this topic; it only applies to foreigners - there is no such law for Thais.

Yes, in this case you're right. Thais don't need a working permit, so Thais can skip this.

[Beng]

Making black money is illegal everywhere else,

[bkkdawg]

Sounds like someone wasn't paying the "Tea Money"

[steven100]

It's idiots like these that give other foreigners who are working here legally with a permit a bad name.

Because...

Winnie, I hope you have a WP if you're also teaching in Chiang Mai. :-)

[djjamie]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

This would have to be the first time I have ever disagreed with you.

Rest assured though I will not intimidate you, belittle you or be condescending towards you. All the people that foster that approach are being arrested, impeached or running away. Under a democracy we can have opposing views yet still be civil to each other.

I feel that if they break the law they should be dealt with according to the law.

"Harming nobody" does not constitute amnesty.

Take care Costas and I appreciate your input.

Edited January 23, 2015 by djjamie

[louse1953]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

I'm pulling a bong in my room,the Bib burst in,i'm busted.Who was i harming.

[WhizBang]

Whenever I get asked what I do for work, I make a point of saying I do NOT work. I am retired. Best to avoid unpleasant surprises.

[louse1953]

no one can keep a secret in Thailand.

Sometimes Caucasians forget that they look completely different than all the Thai people around them.

I watch bored Thais track my every move as I walk up and down the street everyday.

I have had total strangers tell me who I was with a month ago.

"i wonder why 17 men get in elevator? They no live here"

why did they work out of one location?

obviously not thinking as they defeated the whole purpose of being on the internet.

Yeah me also,a lot of Thais know me and where i live and i haven't a clue who they are.

[45slap]

What a waste of time. Immigration/labor dept/cops have nothing better to do. The cops need to actually do something productive. Immigration needs to learn to stamp a passport on the first empty page, not randomly stamp in middle of passport. The Labor Department needs to issue work permits in conjunction with a work visa, not make people with s non-B visa wait and not be legal to work for a month or two until they finally get around to issuing a work permit. Try streamlining the operation. Obviously, fewer people would make a buck off the deal, so screw it. You want "World Class Standards Schools"? Try delivering world class standards visas/work permits.

[cgphuket]

How about arresting the company owners? Nah...not in Thailand.

[ozyjon]

So it's a pain in the bottom to be legal about

everything in Thailand but here in Europe it's

the same paranoia, after the Greek elections

i think Europe will be in for a big shake up,

with the rest to follow,, watch out Thailand.

[anon022]

Lets sum that up:

- 17 foreigners without work permit, so paying no taxes or social contribution

- 17 foreigners with a wrong visa

- hired by a company located in Chiang Mai (registered?, 51% Thai ownership ???)

- working all together out of one, central office

- with a fixed salary, paid in the countries' currency

I do NOT know ONE western country, which would tolerate such violations of the labour and immigration laws, if the shit hits the fan.

btw.: they would not risk that in Singapore, there they would end up in jail for a long time....

Oh Singapore, great example. NOT! You want to live in a police state, then Singapore is the place to move to. Have fun.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Teaching English to Chinese people online, its outrageous! I don't feel safe to go out if stuff like this is happening.

[Tokay]

If immigration would issue such permits, so foreigners could work online like this and other ways, this wouldn't be an issue. However, you can't get a permit to work like this even if you wanted one, so you have no choice but to work illegally.

Blame the system. You should never permit someone from working simply because your outdated system can't create a piece of paper or a stamp for them. Besides, no Thai jobs are ever lost when it comes to online work.

All countries need to upgrade their work permits for those who work online. It's that simple. The world has changed. More and more people can work online than ever before. It's time the paper pushers and stampers catch up.

[anon022]

Welcome to NK Folks

Why do you say this?

Try arriving and expecting to work legally in Australia without a permit.

Try arriving and expecting to work legally in Canada without a permit.

Try arriving and expecting to work legally in the USA without a permit.

Try arriving and expecting to work legally in many other countries without a permit.

You will be very disappointed. Then deported.

Actually there are plenty of people working illegally in those countries while the relevant authorities do not harshly enforce the laws all the time and or everyday and run people out of the country...here one day and thrown out the next....certainly not like that

Fortunately they do not harshly enforce the laws here in Thailand to any great extent while they are very lenient as compared to numerous other countries.

Still...the authorities need to change the laws and requirements because the current laws are basically not being abided by while both Thais and foreigners are complicit.

They have to make it easier for foreigners to make the arrangements to work here legally or people will remain criminalized simply for working and living and staying in Thailand.....hardly a serious crime by any standards.

I am not defending the practice...just pointing out the authorities need to address the problem in a different manner rather than police raids that result in all the more fear and loathing of the police and relevant authorities because the police do not enforce the laws because they believe it is absolutely necessary and required of them rather they have an ulterior motive.

This issue is really a grey area if there ever was while infractions of the immigration laws and labor laws should not be national headlines.

At last, a voice of reason, thank Buddha. I'd already given up. The sheeple rule on TV.

[Tokay]

Meanwhile, trucks and trucks full of Burmese drive the streets daily heading to construction sites. They do not have work permits and live in huge camps all over the city.

[Tokay]

What a waste of time. Immigration/labor dept/cops have nothing better to do. The cops need to actually do something productive. Immigration needs to learn to stamp a passport on the first empty page, not randomly stamp in middle of passport. The Labor Department needs to issue work permits in conjunction with a work visa, not make people with s non-B visa wait and not be legal to work for a month or two until they finally get around to issuing a work permit. Try streamlining the operation. Obviously, fewer people would make a buck off the deal, so screw it. You want "World Class Standards Schools"? Try delivering world class standards visas/work permits.

From what I know of Thai police, this wasn't a random bust. Probably a competitor paid the police to raid them. That's simply how it works here. The police are too lazy and too inept to do real detective work out of the blue.

[balo]

Just a question in this context; if the foreigners had been working for a company outside Thailand, earning their income outside Thailand but being in Thailand, does that require work permit??

No it does not require a WP . If you pay your tax in another country and receive your salary in another country , you can still visit Thailand and do some online work , but you can not live here more than 6 montha .

Thia has been discussed hundreds of times here on thaivisa. I am one of 1000's of digital nomads travelling to Thailand and other countries, we do not need a WP , all we need is a valid visa to stay in Thailand , but no more than 6 months.

What these people in Chiang Mai did was working for a Thai company and receive a salary in Thailand , which is illegal without a WP:

Edited January 23, 2015 by balo