Popular Post webfact Posted January 28, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2015 TELL IT AS IT ISTo Secretary Daniel Russel: Please open your mind and be fairPornpimol KanchanalakSpecial to The NationBANGKOK: -- We understand that the United States wishes to see every country in the world adopt representative democracy under the principles of liberalism whereby the rights of the individual are protected under the law. However, it is hard to comprehend how you could equate elections with liberal democracy.When it comes to Thailand's politics, there are some pertinent points to which the US should open its eyes.First, the country under the elected government of Yingluck was no democracy. Think Sheldon Silver - the recently arrested speaker of the New York Assembly who for the past 20 years took millions from seedy deals. Think former Virginia governor Bob McDonnell, who pocketed millions through plain graft.Then please multiply that corruption a thousand times to go beyond millions to billions of taxpayers' dollars squandered, while the culprits walked free, holding their heads up high because they knew they were untouchable. Thailand was a kleptocratic nation. Kleptocracy is "a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often with pretence of honest service" (Wikepedia). That precisely describes Thailand, and it got worse by the day.That's why the top priority of the government after the May 22 coup was an anti-corruption campaign. People have had enough. As a nation, we were robbed blind.Second, think the grievances of the people of the District of Columbia - "taxation without representation" - and again, multiply it a thousand times. Do you think the voice of the Thai people was heard and effectively represented in Parliament under the previous government? Do you know how hard we begged and pleaded the government to please stop the sleazy and utterly wasteful rice scheme? Our opposition MPs tried the hardest, coming up with piles of evidence of wrongdoing involving the scheme, but we failed miserably to get our voice heard. We simply lost on numbers - the number of parliamentary seats held by the ruling party.International media like to call us "a minority Bangkok elite", but we haven't the faintest idea what that term means. We work from morning to night, we struggle to make ends meet, we keep pounding pavements to do our job right and honestly, we worry about our children, our parents, our health, our homes, our future.The only part of the definition we might recognise is "minority". The country's political system was in fact a tyranny of the majority. The 122 seats from the Northeastern provinces plus over 100 from the North represented the controlling block in Parliament. The Pheu Thai Party's decision to focus their campaign efforts in these two regions was a shrewd one. Contrary to the picture international media like to paint, people in these provinces are not poorer than those in the rest of the country. Pheu Thai won so many seats in these two regions because it had the best-organised and best-funded (mostly by taxpayers' money) political machinery in place. There is nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that such an overwhelming majority left many of us in the dust, without real representation, while we kept dutifully paying our taxes.Third, due to public disenchantment, the previous government lost its ability to govern. Thailand was becoming a bona fide failed state. The fires of divisive hatred were being fanned higher and higher for political gain. They crept into the smallest unit of society - the family. Fights erupted between husband and wife, parent and child, neighbour and neighbour. In what other democracy in the world, Mr Secretary, would you find this saddest state of social disintegration?Where else, Mr Secretary, were war weapons and grenades being used against unarmed civilian crowds?Fourth, anybody who knows the current prime minister knows he had no aspiration to enter politics. Military environment and order suit him well. But a political situation that spiralled out of control into escalating violence prompted him to act.The Western world seems to have forgotten that democracy is not possible without stability. If you don't want to take our word for it, heed Francis Fukuyama's argument that democracy is not defined by elections, but by a good balance between three crucial elements - a strong state that fosters a well-ordered society, the rule of law, and democratic accountability. And more importantly, Fukuyama says, the sequence must be right. Democracy doesn't come first - a strong state does. And states that democratise before acquiring the capacity to rule effectively will invariably fail. Democracy, he says, exacerbates existing failings rather than correcting them, because, paradoxically it eats away at the capacity of the government to govern. That in fact is what the current government is trying to address, by restoring law and order so the country can move forward steadily towards democracy, and we do not fumble into failure again.Fifth, on freedom of expression, we grant that it is a fundamental right, but you will recognise that it is by no means absolute. Think Wikileaks, think Snowden, think anti-Semitism and the doctrine of racial purity that brought the Holocaust and the loss of many millions of lives.Thailand remains a free country despite martial law. Criticism of the sitting government is everywhere. The young son of a former prime minister issued an open threat after the decision of the National Legislative Assembly to impeach Yingluck - "Are you Thais ready?" He remains a free man.Lastly, on the accusation that the impeachment was politically driven, please turn your mind back to Watergate. Without the break-in and the subsequent cover-up, would there have been impeachment proceedings? They went ahead because Nixon broke the law, a law of your land whose penalty was impeachment, and we did not interfere. In Yingluck's case, the law of our land was exercised properly, without political motivation.It was dereliction of duty that got her indicted. She cannot deny responsibility for the large-scale fraud in the rice scam, because as prime minister, the buck stopped with her. Secretary Russel, we respect your opinion and appreciate America's role as the champion of liberal democracy - as "the Shining City Upon a Hill". But we would like you to keep a balanced perspective, and be fair to Thailand. We are a country in transition and our people need a chance to forge a genuinely democratic nation.Our people deserve much better than to live under a fake banner of democracy that masks kleptocracy and a tyranny of the majority.A chance. That's all we would like. And that should not be too much to ask from our oldest ally. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/To-Secretary-Daniel-Russel-Please-open-your-mind-a-30252920.html -- The Nation 2015-01-29 20
Popular Post nolabuff Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Pauline is back! Keep in mind that the author is someone who was convicted of political corruption in the U.S. I'm not too surprised she's disenchanted with the American political system. 9
Popular Post 15Peter20 Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Utter rubbish. 10
Popular Post arthurboy Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 So show me those shining beacons of hope who are not corrupt in Thailand. For decades, all governments, all politicians, all senior civil servants, all senior military officers and all senior policemen have used Thailand and her people to enrich themselves through corruption. There has never been a democracy in Thailand untainted by the stench of elitism, nepotism, cronyism and the self-serving motives of those 'elected' or in power by appointment or through a coup. Will the current junta/ government be any different? Will the corrupt individuals and groups who still exist really be willing to give up all this? Will they really give up the power and influence they have enjoyed for so long? No, they won't. 17
Popular Post malathione Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) "how you could equate elections with liberal democracy" ??? Lost me there. Edited January 29, 2015 by malathione 4
Popular Post Hardback Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Sam tired old narrative - that basically says, politicians are corrupt and the military isn't. 4
PepperMe Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I much prefer libertarian direct democracy. Let the people have referenda on large scale and sensitive policies. 2
Popular Post daveAustin Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 The article is correct and the yanks are wrong. It was never a democracy. 7
Popular Post mca Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 " We struggle to make ends meet" I very much doubt she'll be boiling up a pot of Mama and dumping a 15 baht can of pilchards on top for her dinner. 7
Popular Post MaxLee Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 So show me those shining beacons of hope who are not corrupt in Thailand. For decades, all governments, all politicians, all senior civil servants, all senior military officers and all senior policemen have used Thailand and her people to enrich themselves through corruption. There has never been a democracy in Thailand untainted by the stench of elitism, nepotism, cronyism and the self-serving motives of those 'elected' or in power by appointment or through a coup. Will the current junta/ government be any different? Will the corrupt individuals and groups who still exist really be willing to give up all this? Will they really give up the power and influence they have enjoyed for so long? No, they won't. Yep. No matter who rules, the influential rich and powerful along with their spoiled brats will always get away with criminal corrupt activities... 3
Popular Post smutcakes Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Danny Russel breached diplomatic protocols when he made the speech saying Yingluck's impeachment appears to have been politically motivated. He needs to be recalled and removed from his post for making that statement. Ms. Pornpimol is way off base if she thinks the US shouldn't disapprove of an undemocratic government. Her editorial is a farce. Well he quite simply did not say that, and if you could read and comprehend plain English you would understand that. He said, to some people given the way everything transpired it COULD APPEAR like it was politically motivated. Not that it was. You go on about his qualifications, but given your lack of comprehension ability of simple written English, i would say you should be more concerned with issues closer to home before commenting on others abilities. 9
Popular Post Prbkk Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 If a media outlet wants to push this line about outside interference in domestic politics, better to choose a contributor who has not been not charged with illegal campaign funding by foreign nationals in the USA 4
Popular Post Strangebrew Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 As an American Citizen Sec. Russel You were out of line with your comment's I'll break it down for you. If your driving a car and fall asleep at the wheel are you at fault if you cause an accident? Or what about if your brakes don't feel right and you fail to get them checked and they take a dump on you and cause damage who is to blame? Now you have the concept. Yingluck was the chairman of the rice scam she was warned of corruption taking place yet she sat and done nothing Thus causing harm to Thai taxpayers, I can't say for sure but she may have profited off it to If she did that would in it's self be a crime anywhere. She was offered and refuse to explain her position in this debacle yet she refused. The only way the current government can get answers it needs is to do what there doing now. So I suggest you keep your comments to yourself your not speaking for America as a whole. 5
stickyrice2000 Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Daniel Russell, When the junta says the color is yellow, you cannot say any other color. You're in Thailand right now where everyone has freedom of speech and freedom of press. You're lucky that you didn't get summon to the attitude adjustment camp. Love, USA 2
canuckamuck Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) heed Francis Fukuyama's argument that democracy is not defined by elections, but by a good balance between three crucial elements - a strong state that fosters a well-ordered society, the rule of law, and democratic accountability Well one out of three ain't bad. It is pretty obvious that this country is allergic to the second part. Edited January 29, 2015 by canuckamuck 1
smutcakes Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 As an American Citizen Sec. Russel You were out of line with your comment's I'll break it down for you. If your driving a car and fall asleep at the wheel are you at fault if you cause an accident? Or what about if your brakes don't feel right and you fail to get them checked and they take a dump on you and cause damage who is to blame? Now you have the concept. Yingluck was the chairman of the rice scam she was warned of corruption taking place yet she sat and done nothing Thus causing harm to Thai taxpayers, I can't say for sure but she may have profited off it to If she did that would in it's self be a crime anywhere. She was offered and refuse to explain her position in this debacle yet she refused. The only way the current government can get answers it needs is to do what there doing now. So I suggest you keep your comments to yourself your not speaking for America as a whole. Wow, that is some missing the point there........... 2
Popular Post NongKhaiKid Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Another website shows a picture of the Charge leaving the ministry with the triumphant headline ' Shown The Door ' which would suggest he's been ordered to leave the country but no official word on that. The text reads how he was ' scolded ' for ' wounding Thai hearts ' ! Did the ministry employ a soap opera script writer to prepare this for the Deputy FM ? 3
Popular Post noitom Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 Preposterous tripe sometimes begging sometimes reprimanding the US State Department to understand that Thailand is a "special" case. Thais are special and the US should know that. Dan Russell and the rest of the US State Department should leave Thailand and stop wasting US taxpayer money trying to get these "special" Thais to do the right thing. 9
givenall Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I didn't think these people who take over the country with military force can be so sensitive
Popular Post Prbkk Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 "...a minority Bangkok elite, working from morning until night to make ends meet". Yeah? Who paid more than $100,000 US for a group of execs from a well-known Thai company to have coffee in the White House? 5
Tatsujin Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Some aspects of the article were spot on, others, not so much.
Caveat Emptor Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences. Was he really that stupid ?
chainarong Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I think that Thailand should be mindful that this is the opinion of a Thailand that outsiders see, not one that's portrayed by TAT , people are not stupid and you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the time , just how many chances do you get, maybe you should all take a card and go straight to Jail. 1
Diplomatico Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 On the other end of the spectrum, the lead editorial in today's Bangkok Post is even more critical....stating unequivocally that the impeachment was outside of the rule of law and would go down as one of the most horrendous events in Thailand's history. Wonder if that author will be called in for "attitude re-adjustment". 1
rijb Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 As an American Citizen Sec. Russel You were out of line with your comment's I'll break it down for you. If your driving a car and fall asleep at the wheel are you at fault if you cause an accident? Or what about if your brakes don't feel right and you fail to get them checked and they take a dump on you and cause damage who is to blame? Now you have the concept. Yingluck was the chairman of the rice scam she was warned of corruption taking place yet she sat and done nothing Thus causing harm to Thai taxpayers, I can't say for sure but she may have profited off it to If she did that would in it's self be a crime anywhere. She was offered and refuse to explain her position in this debacle yet she refused. The only way the current government can get answers it needs is to do what there doing now. So I suggest you keep your comments to yourself your not speaking for America as a whole. His job is to speak for you. And your paying his salary. So this is all your fault.
Popular Post brucec64 Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences. Was he really that stupid ? No, he was not that stupid. His comments were made during a speech at Chulalongkorn University. The speech would have been vetted beforehand, and there is the possibility that he did not even write it. The speech reflected the official US opinion on the issues here. It is your opinion that he got it all wrong. I think the comments made were a very correct assessment of the situation here, and the advice to have inclusive reforms spot on. The current path of one sided reforms will only lead to further conflicts down the road, and are the result of some very short term thinking going on here at the moment. 9
jalansanitwong Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) ..............people from NE Thailand and the North are not poorer than other peope in the country.................... With morons like this woman in parliament its no wonder Thailand is going down the drain. Why are the Thais so touchy about foreigners speaking their mind about the pathetic state of Thai politics. Everyone in Asia,Japan, Europe ,Aust and Nth America knows that this place is hopelessly corrupt to the core. Edited January 29, 2015 by jalansanitwong
Popular Post Snig27 Posted January 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 29, 2015 What utter drivel ... the same old cliches and half truths. Only in Thailand would this make it past the editorial desk. What really concerns the power structure here is that so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel. 4
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