Patong is dead.

[NamKangMan]

Just uploaded a (short) Phuket video. Hope you enjoy it.

Do you read the Phuket news? Tourist stabbed to death, drive-by shooting, ATM skimming, arrests for guns and drugs, a missing tourist - and this is just today's front page.

That video clip does not show Phuket's seedy side. As LIK said, it's a promotional video, and in my opinion, not the reality here.

Your personal attack shows your ignorance.

Phuket has a very normal side where life is just fine without troubles. But if you look for only the typical TV cynical and "seedy" side you will find it also. Seedy sells where normality does not. Phuket is just fine. You want to experience "seedy" Pattaya is where its at. Although Pattaya has a normal side also.

Unfortunately this has been censored so much that it's hard to read now

Do you expect to read the paper and just see good news...on an island that at this time of year has about 2 million people on it?

ATM skimming and drugs are so common nowadaysthey don't get in the paper in most places.

Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

"I managed to avoid getting scammed" - "and I used a Tuk Tuk"

Definitely no state-sanctioned scam involved in using a tuk-tuk.

[KarenBravo]

The tuk-tuks are NOT a scam if the price is agreed before hand. You have a take it or, leave it choice.

Yes, the prices are unreasonable due to a cartel, but, that's different from a scam i.e. the black money scam. The jewel scam.

Maybe in your eagerness to paint all things Phuket as bad, you tend to use incorrect definitions?

[NamKangMan]

The tuk-tuks are NOT a scam if the price is agreed before hand. You have a take it or, leave it choice.

Yes, the prices are unreasonable due to a cartel, but, that's different from a scam i.e. the black money scam. The jewel scam.

Maybe in your eagerness to paint all things Phuket as bad, you tend to use incorrect definitions?

The way I see it is tourists are scammed / ripped off / over charged / conned / taken advantage of etc etc, or whatever other "definition" you would like to call it, by the "cartel" because the cartel is allowed by the authorities to operate on Phuket in the way that it does.

Transport is an essential service. If there was a cartel for water / electric / internet etc, that operated in the same way, what would your "definition" be of their operation?

If we are going to debate "definitions" why is the "jet ski scam" called a scam? The price is agreed upon before hire. For me, what takes place after hire is "extortion" yet, it is known as "the jet ski scam."

Maybe in your eagerness to personally attack me, you forgot that quite often the "correct definitions" are not used to describe a crime here.

Perhaps you could post the "correct definition" for when the tuk-tuk driver changes the price at the end of the journey and then uses aggressive behavior to ensure payment?

With so many drunks on the road here, we are all effected by the transport cartel on Phuket. It's a disgrace.

Edited March 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

[grumpyoldman]

IMO the jet ski scam is where the operators claim damage and THEN extort monies beyond the agreed to rental. That's the "scam".

There is no "scam" when the meeting of the minds creates the oral agreement "500thb from Patong to Karon" between the parties. "Agree", "yes", "agreed" lets go.

noun

informal

noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.

   a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

   "an insurance scam"

   verb:

1.

swindle.

"a guy that scams the elderly out of their savings"

Exorbitant pricing, sure, look where you are, Patong ,all scams and mafia (?), I think KB has you NKM in the semantics here.

[xylophone]

Quote Peterocket: "Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

When you said that the "upstairs was closed" do you mean the restaurant next to it on the top floor (upstairs) or something to do with the disco?

I was also out last night (Saturday) but spent most of my time In Smiley Bar and Island Bar and I have to say that both bars were busy and especially the far end of Soi Freedom where the live band Filipino band was playing. This mainly because there was a large group of Aussie guys on holiday and a few of them played in a band, and they got up on stage and rattled off some good rock 'n' roll numbers, probably about 8 numbers in all. The young drummer was 16 and was just fabulous and his father was one of the singers and he was great too.

I did a few numbers and was pleased to know that they thoroughly enjoyed them because they seemed more like "professionals/real singers/players" and it was pleasing to know that my numbers went down well. Having said that, I pretty well thought they had because there was a large group of South African youngsters in front of the stage dancing away and having a great time, and afterwards I was congratulated and asked if I wanted a drink or three and if I would do some more numbers, so couldn't have been that bad!

It was a great party atmosphere at that end of the Soi with about four of the bars enjoying the patronage, and apart from just a few older folk down there (me included) again there was large proportion of youngsters enjoying themselves, although these guys stayed a lot longer than others usually do. It was the same in Smiley Bar, so as I previously posted, the demographics have definitely changed.

These days I get a motorbike taxi down to the top of Bangla and also get one home, whereas before I used to take my car and try to limit my drinking, but it's easier said than done when you're having a good night out. I have no problems with these motorbike taxi drivers and know that I will be asked for between 70 and 100 baht, so am quite prepared for this and anyway it would cost me that much for parking if I were to take the car.

I did see one fight at the top of Bangla as I was just about to get on my motorbike taxi, however it was all over in a matter of two or three punches between a couple of sturdily built, older farangs, with the injured one just staying on the ground whilst the other guy walked away. After a matter of a few minutes the injured guy started to get up and I have no idea how bad he was, but seemingly not so bad as there were a couple of people helping him to his feet.

Apart from this, it was an enjoyable evening and I think I'm due out again on Tuesday with a bunch of guys, for a long-awaited catch up.

[NamKangMan]

IMO the jet ski scam is where the operators claim damage and THEN extort monies beyond the agreed to rental. That's the "scam".

There is no "scam" when the meeting of the minds creates the oral agreement "500thb from Patong to Karon" between the parties. "Agree", "yes", "agreed" lets go.

noun

informal

noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.

   a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

   "an insurance scam"

   verb:

1.

swindle.

"a guy that scams the elderly out of their savings"

Exorbitant pricing, sure, look where you are, Patong ,all scams and mafia (?), I think KB has you NKM in the semantics here.

So, you are saying an "extortion" is actually a "scam" but "a dishonest scheme" by a transport cartel is not a "scam" because of a "meeting of the minds."

My point is, whilst there is a "meeting of the minds" between driver and passenger, there is no "meeting of the minds" between passenger and cartel. It is at the cartel level that ALL tuk-tuk passengers are being scammed, or whatever "definition" you are comfortable with, just as you say the "extortion" of jet ski users is a "scam."

The cartel does the scamming, the tuk-tuk driver is just the money collector, and the dead and injured on the roads here are the collateral damage.

Perhaps you could also address my questions to KB.

Here's another one, what is your "definition" of the crime involving a "ticked up" meter in a taxi? For me, it's "correct definition" is a fraud, but it is also commonly known as a "scam."

Edited March 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

[Jai Dee]

Off-topic argumentative posts have been removed from this thread.

[Peterocket]

Quote Peterocket: "Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

When you said that the "upstairs was closed" do you mean the restaurant next to it on the top floor (upstairs) or something to do with the disco?

The 2nd floor of the Disco...never packed up there anyhow though

[SooKee]

Quote Peterocket: "Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

When you said that the "upstairs was closed" do you mean the restaurant next to it on the top floor (upstairs) or something to do with the disco?

The 2nd floor of the Disco...never packed up there anyhow though

That's 'Blow' I think. First level 'Seduction', second 'Blow' supposed to be more upmarket / VIP (read expensive).

[xylophone]

Quote Peterocket: "Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

When you said that the "upstairs was closed" do you mean the restaurant next to it on the top floor (upstairs) or something to do with the disco?

The 2nd floor of the Disco...never packed up there anyhow though

That's 'Blow' I think. First level 'Seduction', second 'Blow' supposed to be more upmarket / VIP (read expensive).

"That's 'Blow' I think. First level 'Seduction', second 'Blow'"

Sounds like it could be a good........"job" or "nothing to be sniffed at". Take your pick!

[NamKangMan]

Quote Peterocket: "Anyhow Seduction was busy on Saturday although the upstairs was closed...I managed to avoid getting scammed or stabbed and I used a Tuk Tuk.....I know crazy eh!

When you said that the "upstairs was closed" do you mean the restaurant next to it on the top floor (upstairs) or something to do with the disco?

The 2nd floor of the Disco...never packed up there anyhow though

That's 'Blow' I think. First level 'Seduction', second 'Blow' supposed to be more upmarket / VIP (read expensive).

At look at their website shows these events were on at Seduction last night.

http://seductiondisco.com/events/steve-aoki-seduction-nightclub/

http://seductiondisco.com/events/blow-vip-presents-dee-montero-cafe-mambo-ibiza-2/

[grumpyoldman]

IMO the jet ski scam is where the operators claim damage and THEN extort monies beyond the agreed to rental. That's the "scam".

There is no "scam" when the meeting of the minds creates the oral agreement "500thb from Patong to Karon" between the parties. "Agree", "yes", "agreed" lets go.

noun

informal

noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.

   a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

   "an insurance scam"

   verb:

1.

swindle.

"a guy that scams the elderly out of their savings"

Exorbitant pricing, sure, look where you are, Patong ,all scams and mafia (?), I think KB has you NKM in the semantics here.

So, you are saying an "extortion" is actually a "scam" but "a dishonest scheme" by a transport cartel is not a "scam" because of a "meeting of the minds."

My point is, whilst there is a "meeting of the minds" between driver and passenger, there is no "meeting of the minds" between passenger and cartel. It is at the cartel level that ALL tuk-tuk passengers are being scammed, or whatever "definition" you are comfortable with, just as you say the "extortion" of jet ski users is a "scam."

The cartel does the scamming, the tuk-tuk driver is just the money collector, and the dead and injured on the roads here are the collateral damage.

Perhaps you could also address my questions to KB.

Here's another one, what is your "definition" of the crime involving a "ticked up" meter in a taxi? For me, it's "correct definition" is a fraud, but it is also commonly known as a "scam."

Just hilarious dude really, are you trolling from Oz for some entertainment as your very first sentence there is twisting words to suit your conclusion. Trump follower are you?

Cartel? Do you have a phone number or email(?) or is that some figment of too many ingested 2nd hand bookstore Pablo Escobar type novels, I mean really man, you're a bit off your rocker, the way Thais do business in your mind is a cartel? Do you do business here, or no, soak beers on Soi Nanai and contemplate the massive conspiracies of all business Thailand, it's really funny, but no, I think you are bored in nowhere Perth and just like to wind people up.

The point is there is no scam when someone says "it costs this" and the person agrees "Ok, I'll pay that". Now, I understand in dimensia it's all collusion amongst the "cartels" but again, the "scamee" still has the chance to say "no, I'll look elsewhere"

Capisce Troll dude?

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

Capisce Troll dude?

Love it

[NamKangMan]

IMO the jet ski scam is where the operators claim damage and THEN extort monies beyond the agreed to rental. That's the "scam".

There is no "scam" when the meeting of the minds creates the oral agreement "500thb from Patong to Karon" between the parties. "Agree", "yes", "agreed" lets go.

noun

informal

noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.

   a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

   "an insurance scam"

   verb:

1.

swindle.

"a guy that scams the elderly out of their savings"

Exorbitant pricing, sure, look where you are, Patong ,all scams and mafia (?), I think KB has you NKM in the semantics here.

So, you are saying an "extortion" is actually a "scam" but "a dishonest scheme" by a transport cartel is not a "scam" because of a "meeting of the minds."

My point is, whilst there is a "meeting of the minds" between driver and passenger, there is no "meeting of the minds" between passenger and cartel. It is at the cartel level that ALL tuk-tuk passengers are being scammed, or whatever "definition" you are comfortable with, just as you say the "extortion" of jet ski users is a "scam."

The cartel does the scamming, the tuk-tuk driver is just the money collector, and the dead and injured on the roads here are the collateral damage.

Perhaps you could also address my questions to KB.

Here's another one, what is your "definition" of the crime involving a "ticked up" meter in a taxi? For me, it's "correct definition" is a fraud, but it is also commonly known as a "scam."

Just hilarious dude really, are you trolling from Oz for some entertainment as your very first sentence there is twisting words to suit your conclusion. Trump follower are you?

Cartel? Do you have a phone number or email(?) or is that some figment of too many ingested 2nd hand bookstore Pablo Escobar type novels, I mean really man, you're a bit off your rocker, the way Thais do business in your mind is a cartel? Do you do business here, or no, soak beers on Soi Nanai and contemplate the massive conspiracies of all business Thailand, it's really funny, but no, I think you are bored in nowhere Perth and just like to wind people up.

The point is there is no scam when someone says "it costs this" and the person agrees "Ok, I'll pay that". Now, I understand in dimensia it's all collusion amongst the "cartels" but again, the "scamee" still has the chance to say "no, I'll look elsewhere"

Capisce Troll dude?

Well, that's a troll post if I have ever seen one, but I'll address it, unlike yourself, resorting to a poor attempt at humor and a personal attack.

"Do you have a phone number or email(?" - last I heard, "association fees" were being paid to the son of the late Mr. K, and that is definitely not a figment of my imagination.

"the way Thais do business in your mind is a cartel?" - did I say ALL Thai's????

"Do you do business here" - no, which means I have no conflict of interest.

"soak beers on Soi Nanai" - I live on the fringe of Patong. I do ride along Nanai Road frequently, but rarely drink in any establishment along the road.

"The point is there is no scam when someone says "it costs this" and the person agrees "Ok, I'll pay that" - rubbish. The collusion that creates the monopoly IS THE SCAM. There is "no, I'll look elsewhere" because they are all charging the same, because they are allowed to do so by authorities.

Like I said, it's the cartel that is operating the scam. The individual drivers are the money collectors.

You do know a 1000 kms further north, in a place called Pattaya, there is a flat fare hop on / hop off baht bus system in place that uses similar vehicles?

That said, western tourists are "looking elsewhere" and not holidaying on Phuket in the numbers they used to.

Do you have anything of substance to post, GOM?

If you can't back up the comments in your post, you really do make yourself look naive, boarding on ignorant.

Edited March 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

[Gutenberg]

The tuk-tuks are NOT a scam if the price is agreed before hand. You have a take it or, leave it choice.

Yes, the prices are unreasonable due to a cartel, but, that's different from a scam i.e. the black money scam. The jewel scam.

Maybe in your eagerness to paint all things Phuket as bad, you tend to use incorrect definitions?

I always agree on 500 THB with them and pay 1000 THB anyway. Being drunk matters.

[TacoHell]

"Fringe of Patong"

[johnatong]

"Fringe of Patong"

What is so funny ?

I also line on the outskirts of Patong.

Explain the "joke" please .................

[DrDave]

"Fringe of Patong"

What is so funny ?

I also line on the outskirts of Patong.

Explain the "joke" please .................

OK, I'll bite....

Fringe

adjective

not part of the mainstream; unconventional; peripheral or extreme.

See also "Lunatic Fringe"

[NamKangMan]

"Fringe of Patong"

Wow. We are still banging on about the "correct definitions."

Would you prefer I use the words "outskirts of Patong?"

Or do you think Patong is only Bangla Road?

Edited March 28, 2016 by NamKangMan

[Gutenberg]

Or do you think Patong is only Bangla Road?

Well, yes. If there wasn't the Bangla Road, we wouldn't talk about Patong.

[NamKangMan]

Or do you think Patong is only Bangla Road?

Well, yes. If there wasn't the Bangla Road, we wouldn't talk about Patong.

Not all of Patong is like Bangla Road.

In the same way not all of Phuket is like Patong.

That said, Patong / Bangla Road is Phuket's biggest tourist attraction.

Edited March 28, 2016 by NamKangMan

[grumpyoldman]

Friend and fellow TV member REFUTED "Patong is Dead" this morning after we finished up a game of tennis.

He oftentimes goes through Patong after business later in the night (he likes the kebobs at the top of Bangla) and says "no way" tons of people out and about.

Maybe we should put this thread on ice until June

[KarenBravo]

I guess it depends on the definition of "dead".

If it's the number of people out on the street, then it's not dead.

If it's the number of people actually spending money, then it is dead.

Lots of reports saying that the businesses actually on Bangla have trade, but, the bars and restaurants behind, or, in the side sois have very little trade.

Seems to me, Bangla has become a magnet for selfie takers.

Edited March 29, 2016 by KarenBravo

[grumpyoldman]

Seems to me, Bangla has become a magnet for selfie takers.

The selfie cartel, death of Phuket for sure

[arunsakda]

As an independent traveller I will never again go to HKT. Because of the transport mafia only. Maybe if I have some specific reason however there are other locations in Thailand offering same or better without fleecing.

Nobody cares in Phuket of course as there are plenty of new Rams to fleece and pigeons to pluck daily. Up to you. -peace Arunsakda

Edited March 29, 2016 by arunsakda

[grumpyoldman]

As an independent traveller I will never again go to HKT. Because of the transport mafia only. Maybe if I have some specific reason however there are other locations in Thailand offering same or better without fleecing.

Nobody cares in Phuket of course as there are plenty of new Rams to fleece and pigeons to pluck daily. Up to you. -peace Arunsakda

Please be specific on what happened and how much you paid.

In your home country how much do you pay for a taxi.

Wondering if NKM has a second nic, eh?

[Gutenberg]

As an independent traveller I will never again go to HKT. Because of the transport mafia only. Maybe if I have some specific reason however there are other locations in Thailand offering same or better without fleecing.

Nobody cares in Phuket of course as there are plenty of new Rams to fleece and pigeons to pluck daily. Up to you. -peace Arunsakda

Please be specific on what happened and how much you paid.

In your home country how much do you pay for a taxi.

Wondering if NKM has a second nic, eh?

The only problem is that you are forced to take a taxi if you don't get picked up. In my country of origin, I spend 3 EUR and drive in a safe and fast public transport system. The taxis are at the same price level like Phuket (well, that's not good but not bad either).

[Lashay]

Friend and fellow TV member REFUTED "Patong is Dead" this morning after we finished up a game of tennis.

He oftentimes goes through Patong after business later in the night (he likes the kebobs at the top of Bangla) and says "no way" tons of people out and about.

Maybe we should put this thread on ice until June

Main street is full of people walking, always is even in low season.

If you look in actual premises it's a totally different story. Majority of bars on main street get busy for about 2-3 hours, that's about it. Not good for places that are open on average 17 hours per day.

It's even worse if you actually pay attention to how much people are spending , the "one beer one hour" crowd are the bulk of the customers these days, it's the tiny (and ever decreasing) minority of "big spenders" that are keeping most places going.

But even that is failing to work anymore, high season is not even over yet and know of 4 soi bars where owners have walked away since Jan and know of another 2 who are doing so at end of this month as they have decided not even worth waiting on Songkran.

Hell even some bars at front have changed hands which is vary rare for high season.

As been noted by others, the customer base is changing, getting younger and spending less. Even the gender ratio is changing fast. And bulk of people we see walking on Bangla between 9-12 these days don't seem to be drinking anywhere.

But strange thing is, despite the price wars going on (7-8 shots for 100, buckets for 125, 69 baht beers so forth) in majority of cases it just does not work (actually about half the places i know that have closed recently were doing these low prices)

The new customers, while not as big spending as customers of old, neither are they really booze guzzling bargain hunters, they just don't drink as much anymore (and this seems to be the trend in tourist zones across the world) Note: this does not mean they don't get drunk. So if you are only going have about 5 beers in a night you really don't care if they are 69 baht or 150.

Average night for most who actually participate these days seems to be, couple of beers in a bar, then off to a club to have a few more, aprox 1000 per night per person.

So only bars that can offer more seem to be bucking the trend, with "more" mainly being live music these days (not like many options for bar owners, most places to small even for live music). But really only those bar owners know if it's worth it, bands are not cheap and while they might put more bums on seats, if they are all the one beer one hour crowd...

Normally when a market changes like this, lots of people, but low spending, small fold or get bought out by their larger neighbors who expand, as the game becomes about maximizing how many you can pack in during the few busy hours but due to the unique set up on Bangla, where virtually no bar owner really owns the building/land (all just long leases, hell even the Soi owners in most cases don't really own the soi, just lease them too) i don't see how Bangla can adapt

[Lashay]

As an independent traveller I will never again go to HKT. Because of the transport mafia only. Maybe if I have some specific reason however there are other locations in Thailand offering same or better without fleecing.

Nobody cares in Phuket of course as there are plenty of new Rams to fleece and pigeons to pluck daily. Up to you. -peace Arunsakda

Please be specific on what happened and how much you paid.

In your home country how much do you pay for a taxi.

Wondering if NKM has a second nic, eh?

To be honest find it rather amusing people defending the so called transport system here, even more amusing those denying there is a cartel/mafia

Prices here are equivalent to non Black taxi Prices in London, one of the most expensive cites in the world with an average income that is multiple times greater (and a great public transport system)

Minimum wage here is 300 per day

Average taxi/tuktuk price is 200 Baht to get anywhere in Patong.

Bangkok, Starting prices are 35 baht for first kilometer and then 5.5 for each kilometer after

Average price taxi Patong to Airport: 800

If using Bangkok pricing system be under 300 for same distance. That's 166% increase

Virtually no public transport alternatives, why? Blocked either politically or forceably by the cartel time and time again. From blockading hotels who try to provide their own transport to customers, to blockading cruise ships for same thing, hell even blockading the US goddamn Navy .

Or remember back when a guy tried to set up a new bus route to run along the west coast tourist towns only to have his drivers stopped, dragged off their bus and threatened by armed men?

Here, you use the cartels transport at their prices, drive yourself or stay put.

It is also one of the main things holding back island as a whole and keeping tourism concentrated on a section of the west cost , so expensive to get anywhere, everyone wants to stay close to everything, which increases business property costs and thus prices of everything.

If you want to go out regularly, even if you pay up to 1000 per night more for a Patong Hotel than say one in Karon, you will still end up ahead. And thats before they start their little scams like, late night, agreeing a price, going half way, stopping in middle of nowhere and then demanding more or get out.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Lashay

[KarenBravo]

Jeez.......tell us something we don't know (about the transport situation).