Neem oil

[Anthony5]

I have some plumeria trees that are heavily infested with mealy bugs. I read Neem oil is an effective solution.

Can anyone tell me what the Thai name is for Neem oil, if it is easily to find and if it is expensive.

Any other suggestions as what will be effective for the mealy bugs is welcomed. Keep in mind that it are big trees so the cleaning the leafs with an alcohol solution isn't an option.

[cooked]

I have some plumeria trees that are heavily infested with mealy bugs. I read Neem oil is an effective solution.

Can anyone tell me what the Thai name is for Neem oil, if it is easily to find and if it is expensive.

Any other suggestions as what will be effective for the mealy bugs is welcomed. Keep in mind that it are big trees so the cleaning the leafs with an alcohol solution isn't an option.

Bai (bye) sadow. A tincture of neem is what you usually get. As far as I understand it, Neem is a repellent and won't kill bigs, although I suppose oil would suffocate them. The Thais often mix in chili and garlic.

[Anthony5]

I have some plumeria trees that are heavily infested with mealy bugs. I read Neem oil is an effective solution.

Can anyone tell me what the Thai name is for Neem oil, if it is easily to find and if it is expensive.

Any other suggestions as what will be effective for the mealy bugs is welcomed. Keep in mind that it are big trees so the cleaning the leafs with an alcohol solution isn't an option.

Bai (bye) sadow. A tincture of neem is what you usually get. As far as I understand it, Neem is a repellent and won't kill bigs, although I suppose oil would suffocate them. The Thais often mix in chili and garlic.

Yes the oil is supposed to suffocate the mealy bug, and it claims to have fungicide properties as well.

Now I was thinking if any oil would have the same result, as I not so long bought some oil in a farm supply shop, and it just says 99% petroleum oil on the bottle.Novo OIl - Aliphatic Hydrocarbon

You think I could use that one instead of neem oil? The trees also have a race circuit for ants attached, should I add Cypermetrin?

[cooked]

I really don't feel qualified to say which treatment would be best. From trying to do everything organically a few years ago I have moved to spraying whatever will kill the buggers and to hell with it. Cypermethrin would get rid of both ants and mealy bugs ok. You would have to google that.

I would start with a mixture of a Cypermethrine plus Neem OIL bearing in mind that Cypermeth kills fish and seems to be responsible for bee hive death. Difficult to give advice in Thailand as conditions vary so much from North to South...

I never heard of A.H. but google provides some unpleasant results, very toxic. Wear a mask, not one of the pathetic bits of cloth that Thais use, be fully clothed from head to foot, take a shower afterwards... not really worth it?

Like me, like most of us, you will have to try different solutions. I got most frustrated just trying to find stuff to measure dosages correctly. You get looked at very strangely when you ask for a measuring cylinder...

[Anthony5]

I really don't feel qualified to say which treatment would be best. From trying to do everything organically a few years ago I have moved to spraying whatever will kill the buggers and to hell with it. Cypermethrin would get rid of both ants and mealy bugs ok. You would have to google that.

I would start with a mixture of a Cypermethrine plus Neem OIL bearing in mind that Cypermeth kills fish and seems to be responsible for bee hive death. Difficult to give advice in Thailand as conditions vary so much from North to South...

I never heard of A.H. but google provides some unpleasant results, very toxic. Wear a mask, not one of the pathetic bits of cloth that Thais use, be fully clothed from head to foot, take a shower afterwards... not really worth it?

Like me, like most of us, you will have to try different solutions. I got most frustrated just trying to find stuff to measure dosages correctly. You get looked at very strangely when you ask for a measuring cylinder...

Thanks for the heads up on the A.H., I wasn't aware of that. I used it several months ago on the trees. with wood vinegar and every insecticide I had available in the garden shed mixed into it, and sprayed it plentiful without considering protection.

It was effective as the trees lost all their leafs with days, and I haven't died yet, but I guess I will give a repeat use of that oil a miss.

Will have a look for neem oil tomorrow.

I understand your frustration, because also when I go into one of the largest farm supply shops in the area, they have simply no idea what they are selling.

Not so long ago I asked for something to kill insects on my Tawan palms, and they gave me Hexaconazole, which they said was very good for insects and specifically on palms.

Looked it up and it is a fungicide.

[cooked]

Best is to find a large shop and wander around with a smart phone in your hand, google at the ready. You can serve yourself to stuff here that is kept under lock and key in other countries. I actually found a smallish shop with a good selection of products and a book with pictures of garden pests and recommendations. In a small town called Lamplaimat, Buriram. I take a leaf or whatever with me and between us we decide what might be best to use. Rare and few between, places like that.

[kickstart]

I have some plumeria trees that are heavily infested with mealy bugs. I read Neem oil is an effective solution.

Can anyone tell me what the Thai name is for Neem oil, if it is easily to find and if it is expensive.

Any other suggestions as what will be effective for the mealy bugs is welcomed. Keep in mind that it are big trees so the cleaning the leafs with an alcohol solution isn't an option.

Bai (bye) sadow. A tincture of neem is what you usually get. As far as I understand it, Neem is a repellent and won't kill bigs, although I suppose oil would suffocate them. The Thais often mix in chili and garlic.

I thought neem oil was Nam Man Sadow. the neat oil is available ,many years ago a guy near Pack Chong ,Korat use to produce it mainly in the short window in March ,April when the trees have the berry's,then a lot of the locals use to use it.

I have heard of Sadow leaves soaked in water for a few days until they ferment,then use the liquor.,also heard it has limited results.

[cooked]

I have some plumeria trees that are heavily infested with mealy bugs. I read Neem oil is an effective solution.

Can anyone tell me what the Thai name is for Neem oil, if it is easily to find and if it is expensive.

Any other suggestions as what will be effective for the mealy bugs is welcomed. Keep in mind that it are big trees so the cleaning the leafs with an alcohol solution isn't an option.

Bai (bye) sadow. A tincture of neem is what you usually get. As far as I understand it, Neem is a repellent and won't kill bigs, although I suppose oil would suffocate them. The Thais often mix in chili and garlic.

I thought neem oil was Nam Man Sadow. the neat oil is available ,many years ago a guy near Pack Chong ,Korat use to produce it mainly in the short window in March ,April when the trees have the berry's,then a lot of the locals use to use it.

I have heard of Sadow leaves soaked in water for a few days until they ferment,then use the liquor.,also heard it has limited results.

I'm not sure that the Naam bit refers to oil, but rather to the tincture. I naively made tincture when I first came here, fermented it for 30 days (some interesting life forms developed in there) but it wasn't very effective. The locals laughed at me when I tried that.

[rabid old goat]

"nam man" http://www.thai-language.com/id/198652 is generic term for oil then you put what type of oil after that

[charu]

Hello There! Greetings! I can arrange neem oil for you! please contact me.. Charu, Bangkok...

[CLW]

Google thaineem, they have an online shop.

I ordered there, works perfect.

Both purchasing and effect on insects.

[drtreelove]

I really don't feel qualified to say which treatment would be best. From trying to do everything organically a few years ago I have moved to spraying whatever will kill the buggers and to hell with it. Cypermethrin would get rid of both ants and mealy bugs ok. You would have to google that.

I would start with a mixture of a Cypermethrine plus Neem OIL bearing in mind that Cypermeth kills fish and seems to be responsible for bee hive death. Difficult to give advice in Thailand as conditions vary so much from North to South...

I never heard of A.H. but google provides some unpleasant results, very toxic. Wear a mask, not one of the pathetic bits of cloth that Thais use, be fully clothed from head to foot, take a shower afterwards... not really worth it?

Like me, like most of us, you will have to try different solutions. I got most frustrated just trying to find stuff to measure dosages correctly. You get looked at very strangely when you ask for a measuring cylinder...

To Hell with it? Thats an irresponsible copout in my opinion. Pesticide use should require a responsible approach with IPM (Integrated Pest Management or intelligent plant management). Don't use pesticide products irresponsibly, read and learn and know what you are working with.

Most pesticide products, even organic botanicals, can be toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. Cypermethrin is a pyrethroid, a contact insecticide. It won't kill a bee hive unless you spray the bee hive, you are probably confusing this with neonicotinoids that have been in the news as possible contributors to honey bee colony collapse.

Like many pest and disease conditions, trying to treat an active mealy bug infestation is much more difficult than preventive treatment. You may have failed with organic materials, due to using them in an ineffective manner, trying to treat advanced infestations. Organic program compatible pesticides are best used preventively. For example, neem products or other botanical or biological controls should be started early in the season and used on a 7 to 14 day interval of repeated treatments. It takes knowledge of plant problem profiles, knowing what your plants are susceptible to in the way of pest and disease issues, and knowing the life cycles of the common pests for that plant. When you use this type of IPM approach you can get ahead of the pests and suppress an infestation before it becomes acute and difficult to control.

Mealybugs are a type of scale insect that has incomplete metamorphosis, with a crawler stage (immature stage after egg hatch) that is more susceptible to horticultural oil and botanical insecticide applications. If you wait until the insect is primarily in the adult stage, they are hunkered down and sucking plant juices, with a protective coating around their bodies that prevents good control with contact insecticides. Therefore at that stage systemic insecticide use would be more effective. Since plumeria is an ornamental and not a food plant, you could use a systemic insecticide that contains an active ingredient of imidacloprid or better yet, for faster action, use dinotefuran (Starkle G or Safari). But these are 'neonics' and potential pollinator colony disruptors if in fact the chemical gets up into the flowers and nectar and the bees transport it back to the hive. But the research I've read is still inconclusive in this respect.

Pesticide use should be secondary in dealing with plant problems. Creating healthy soil with mineral and biological amendments is the primary method of building plant resistance to pest and disease issues.

[cooked]

http://www.fastcompany.com/1717421/british-beekeepers-association-endorses-bee-toxic-pesticides-cash

To hell with it: when you have a small garden with 10 different crops you can't be expected to go over the plants every day with a microscope. It is usually too late when you do notice a problem, at which point you need to take action or pull the plants out and burn them. Soil: very nice if you can afford to send samples off for an analysis and then wade your way ( two months later if you're lucky) through the various fertilisers etc that are available on the Thai market. My soil is, after three years work, very nice, but without spraying I can't grow anything in the tomato / aubergine / pepper family. I do wish people would stop generalising about growing stuff in Thailand and recognise that there can be vast differences in what you can grow not from one province to another but from one side of the road to the other. Son in law has beautiful tomatoes, 400 Metres from here, I can't grow them. Nobody can in the village, only people that have land in the rice fields that can be irrigated.

[drtreelove]

Any pesticide product has the potential to affect honey bees, even neem oil and other botanical, organic program compatible materials. It's all about timing and appropriate use, knowledge of plant and pest cycles, awareness of pollinator activity and not spraying when plants are in bloom and pollinators are active.

BTW, I know of a large municipal rose garden (San Jose California) where the primary and very effective pest and disease control I'm told is spraying neem oil every two weeks. That's the kind of frequency you need with organic materials that don't have a long residual effectiveness.

Of course to do an organic program right, or any program for that matter, takes commitment, time and money. The more of these you have the more comprehensive and effective your program can be. With deficiencies in time and money, you just have to do the best that you can and accept the results.

[drtreelove]

FYI. Attached: New pub on mealybugs from UC IPM.

OP see control notes.

Mealybugs Management Guidelines--UC IPM.htm

[soidog2]

Most efficient way of dealing with mealybugs; for a small garden, use a relatively high pressure water hose and rinse the affected areas.

I have some coffee trees, the bugs love to hide in between the berries. Unchecked they will ruin the crop.

A biweekly rinse keeps them nicely in check. Ants farm the bugs for the sugary sap they excrete, find a way to control the ants, 1/2 your problem is dealt with.

[fruitman]

I bought tanglefoot on ebay and put that on tape around the tree's trunks. Works good against ants.

But those mealybugs can also walk i noticed. I spray Bayer folitec to stop them which works well.

Neem oil is sold as nahm sadao, i think it's more neem water. In Europe we have an oily neem oil which is clear and transparant and smells much stronger. In Thailand i've never seen real neem oil (not water).

[CLW]

I bought tanglefoot on ebay and put that on tape around the tree's trunks. Works good against ants.

But those mealybugs can also walk i noticed. I spray Bayer folitec to stop them which works well.

Neem oil is sold as nahm sadao, i think it's more neem water. In Europe we have an oily neem oil which is clear and transparant and smells much stronger. In Thailand i've never seen real neem oil (not water).

Look at Thaineem on Google.

They're selling Neem extract, that's what you call Neem oil.

You have to apply every 7 days and being a little patient because of it's mechanism.

It's not a immediate effect like Pyrethroides. It's a feeding depressant and molting inhibitor.

So your pest insects slow down feeding but stay on your plants.

And they won't complete their next molting and the reproduction cycle is interrupted.

But it works.

[drtreelove]

Neem oil is sold as nahm sadao, i think it's more neem water. In Europe we have an oily neem oil which is clear and transparant and smells much stronger. In Thailand i've never seen real neem oil (not water).

Look at Thaineem on Google.

They're selling Neem extract, that's what you call Neem oil.

You have to apply every 7 days and being a little patient because of it's mechanism.

It's not a immediate effect like Pyrethroides. It's a feeding depressant and molting inhibitor.

So your pest insects slow down feeding but stay on your plants.

And they won't complete their next molting and the reproduction cycle is interrupted.

But it works.

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation on neem products. The primary choice is if you are targeting arthropod (insects and mites) and nematode pests, or if you need to include protection for fungal pathogens. Neem oil is the choice for pest and disease control. For pests only, the best choice may be the more potent azadirachtin .

From my understanding, neem seed extract, and much less so with neem leaf extracts, are complex biochemical substances, and have a variety of active ingredients, azadirachtin being the primary insecticide ingredient, and usually the only one identified in products that contain it. (I have not seen azadirachtin identified as fungicidal). Neem oil I understand does not contain azadirachtin, but does contain other active ingredients that are not identified. The neem oil, besides pest control also has fungicidal properties. Being an oil, it is used similarly to petroleum based horticultural oils, that smother arthropod pest eggs and larvae as well as protect against some fungi.

I am not a biochemist or authority on this, but have used various products over the years. Not until I wised up and understood the preventive vs cure issue, did I find success in efficacy. The key is, to use neem products and other biologicals preventively, with repeated applications starting before an anticipated pest infestation or disease infection cycle, or early onset as soon as you notice the issue. If you wait until you have heavy pests or disease and expect to stop or cure an active infestation or infection you may be disappointed and think that these products don't work. Some suppression can occur for active infections, but don't count on complete cure.

The attached label for 70% Neem oil has some good tips on use for neem oil in general and frequency of application for prevention and cure. And OP take note for mealy bug control on plumeria, with a heads up for the warning on sensitive plants and flowers. Test it on a small area of a plant and observe for a week or two, before spraying the entire plant.

Note: Neem oil (not azadirachtin products) really gums up my sprayers and I have to clean with a tank cleaner surfactant/solvent and then triple rinse to clear the surfactant. Time and money.

I use a product called Azatrol here in California, which is proven effective for arthropod and nematode pests and has the azadirachtin a.i. The product info sheet has some interesting general information on this type of product. In Chiang Mai, the ag fert and chem shop that I purchased from had two similar products with azadirachtin a.i., one made in Thailand and the other imported from India.

AZATROL is an azadirachtin insecticide (1.2%) formulated to provide broad spectrum insect control with very low environmental impact. NON-TOXIC to honeybees and many other beneficial insects. OMRI Listed for use in organic production.

A popular botanical insecticide/ miticide with multiple modes of action, Azatrol acts as an anti-feedant, insect growth regulator and as a repellent and ovipositing deterrent.

Anti-Feedant: Insects will feed less or not at all on treated plant tissue. Foliage is NOT damaged and insects ultimately starve to death.

Insect Growth Regulator (IGR): Insects will fail to mature and reproduce, eliminating populations over time, or keeping populations at acceptable levels.

Anti-Ovipository & Repellent: The likelihood of insect infestation is greatly decreased in treated plants. This also adds a preventive aspect to your control program.

Available in pint (16 oz) and quart (32 oz) sizes.

HOW IT WORKS:

Azatrol does NOT provide the quick “knock-down” of a contact poison. However, 21 days after treatment, insect control is comparable to the standards. The end result, insect population control is obtained. If used as a preventive treatment throughout the season, prior to insect infestation, the goal of protecting plants, ornamental flowers and shrubs and trees will be accomplished.

Neem Oil.pdf

70NeemOil-(04)-Bilingual-forweb.pdf

[fruitman]

Yes the Thaineem shop has the real oil. I 'll try to find that. But if it clogs up my new cordless sprayer i might not use it often. I now have a 2000 baht backpacksprayer on battery and its awesome! No more sweating or hard pumpwork for me.

From now on i will spray my garden every weekend with neem and seaweed extract. Let's see if that works.

[CLW]

Yes the Thaineem shop has the real oil. I 'll try to find that. But if it clogs up my new cordless sprayer i might not use it often. I now have a 2000 baht backpacksprayer on battery and its awesome! No more sweating or hard pumpwork for me.

From now on i will spray my garden every weekend with neem and seaweed extract. Let's see if that works.

Where I can find that seaweed extract or other plant strengthening substances?

[drtreelove]

Yes the Thaineem shop has the real oil. I 'll try to find that. But if it clogs up my new cordless sprayer i might not use it often. I now have a 2000 baht backpacksprayer on battery and its awesome! No more sweating or hard pumpwork for me.

From now on i will spray my garden every weekend with neem and seaweed extract. Let's see if that works.

Where I can find that seaweed extract or other plant strengthening substances?

Fruitman, If you clean your sprayer after each use, double or triple rinse and pump through the works with clean water , you shouldn't have a problem of clogging. Store unused solution in a separate jug, not in the sprayer tank. I let a cannabis grower neighbor use one of my sprayers and he let it sit with unused neem oil solution a couple of times and that's when residue hardened and needed special cleaning. It could have been that other ingredients in the solution added to the hardening.

You can spray neem oil every other week for purely preventive protection, and maybe step it up to every week if you anticipate or observe an active pest infestation or disease infection cycle starting. Be prepared for more aggressive pests with pyrethrins or other contact insecticide.

Have you actually found seaweed extract in Thailand? Where? It would have to be imported, maybe from Japan, and probably quite expensive. The tropical waters do not have the rich kelp forests that some colder seas and shorelines do.

Here in California am using hydrolyzed fish fertilizer and a cold processed kelp product from a company called Native Nutrients that gets their fish and kelp from the Oregon coast. I mix the products in water in a 100 gal tank sprayer for hydraulic application as a general purpose fertilizer solution for my own and for customers gardens, monthly or every two months frequency of applications. It's phenomenal in results, with good balanced plant growth, lush green foliage, rich bright colors in flowers and tastiest veggies and fruits. When I have the opportunity to do soil testing and prescription amendments, I usually add a dried kelp meal product (that probably comes from the north Atlantic). It's rich in micronutrients and other goodies, but one of the most expensive products per unit price that goes into my soil amendments.

But sorry, this doesn't have much to do with Thailand farming if you can't get similar products. I just mention it because CLW asked about kelp. It's great stuff for plant growth if you can get it. But not affordable or a "sustainable" practice to ship it from halfway around the world.

Fish Flyer2.pdf

kelp flyer2.pdf

[fruitman]

At the Sanam Lunang 2 aka Thonburi market you can buy seaweed extract from Canada. The vendor has many more quality products which you won't find anywhere else, he also speaks good english.

His shop is open from 1-5 during the week and in the weekend all day i think.

If you are at the plant-department of thonburi market you have to find the last alley where they sell plants, he is in that row. The next alleys are full of artificial flowers and ceramic pots...no more plants.

Best walk all around that plantmarket in 2 hours time...they also have big animal departments, fishdepartment and much more. It's a great market, much better than chatuchak. But in the weekend it's impossible to there by car, vely busy sir.

There are many more shops who only sell plantfood and chemicals, they really have everything there if you know which shops to visit.

I sprayed Bison fish fertilizer from that market as well. It didn't smell and no idea if it helps. I like to spray my tree's wearing only a pair of shorts so sure i will get sprayed a bit. That's why i like safe things to spray like neem or seaweed....Also i will keep my sprayer clean and only use good soluble products.

Really for 2000 baht they sell great sprayers in BKK, the cheapest models are 1600 baht but i bought a japanese version of the same model. It has a better hose and an extra metre for battery or so but it sprays amazingly well, soft or hard or very hard. It also has many filters to keep the fluid clean.

My tree's have loads of insects and pests, even if i spray neemoil (water) they still come back. They are fruittree's so i don't want to use harsh chemicals but i do use Bayer folitec which i also bought on the thonburi market.

120 baht for the seaweed, he also sells ironsulfate and very good soil which he makes himself. Also he has thai tanglefoot against ants, many products to mix the perfect soil for bonsaitree's and best of all is this vendor shows the retailprice, speaks english, helps you very well. He is close to the fruittree department.

[drtreelove]

At the Sanam Lunang 2 aka Thonburi market you can buy seaweed extract from Canada. The vendor has many more quality products which you won't find anywhere else, he also speaks good english.

His shop is open from 1-5 during the week and in the weekend all day i think.

If you are at the plant-department of thonburi market you have to find the last alley where they sell plants, he is in that row. The next alleys are full of artificial flowers and ceramic pots...no more plants.

Best walk all around that plantmarket in 2 hours time...they also have big animal departments, fishdepartment and much more. It's a great market, much better than chatuchak. But in the weekend it's impossible to there by car, vely busy sir.

There are many more shops who only sell plantfood and chemicals, they really have everything there if you know which shops to visit.

I sprayed Bison fish fertilizer from that market as well. It didn't smell and no idea if it helps. I like to spray my tree's wearing only a pair of shorts so sure i will get sprayed a bit. That's why i like safe things to spray like neem or seaweed....Also i will keep my sprayer clean and only use good soluble products.

Really for 2000 baht they sell great sprayers in BKK, the cheapest models are 1600 baht but i bought a japanese version of the same model. It has a better hose and an extra metre for battery or so but it sprays amazingly well, soft or hard or very hard. It also has many filters to keep the fluid clean.

My tree's have loads of insects and pests, even if i spray neemoil (water) they still come back. They are fruittree's so i don't want to use harsh chemicals but i do use Bayer folitec which i also bought on the thonburi market.

120 baht for the seaweed, he also sells ironsulfate and very good soil which he makes himself. Also he has thai tanglefoot against ants, many products to mix the perfect soil for bonsaitree's and best of all is this vendor shows the retailprice, speaks english, helps you very well. He is close to the fruittree department.

Fruitman; This is great information, thanks for posting. Closer to our Samut Prakan residence than other markets. Yes I would choose a Japanese model vs others if I had a choice, the few baht extra is well spent in my opinion.

Be aware that Bayer Folitec a.i.(active ingredient) is beta-cyfluthrin, a pyrethroid, but extremely more toxic than other more common pyrethroids like permethrin. I couldn't even find it in the Bayer products list on cdms.com the US based chemical label database, which means it's not sold and probably illegal in the US. It's a 'Danger' label (skull and crossbones), indicating the highest level of toxicity rating for mammals, and especially hazardous for the applicator, and especially when mixing and handling the concentrate. I recommend that if you think you need to use this 'harsh' chemical pesticide, that you put your long pants on, long sleeve shirt, shoes or boots, chemical resistant gloves, goggles or better yet, full face shield.

http://www.chemtrack.org/Chem-Detail.asp?ID=07754&NAME=beta-cyfluthrin

Please share or PM about what "loads of insects and pests" are getting past your pest control and neem program. Please state what province you are located in, photos and/or descriptions of pests, host plants and damage that you observe. I will try to help you find less toxic alternatives for your pest control program. That is my mission.

[fruitman]

Well i use to boycot all products made in Thailand because of low quality but the battery sprayer really amazed me, it works perfect and sprays about 5x20 litre on one batteryload. It can spray the 20 litre in 3 minutes i guess if used in full throttlemode. I see them for sale at many places but the one i have costs a little but more.

On the Thonburi market is also a shop from a thai couple who sell everything for sprayers, also parts. If you want a telescopic lance or whatever they sure have it.

Just go there on an afternoon and walk around the whole market and take your time. There is much to find but best is to have a thai speaking person with you.

On some days (i still don't know which days) there is also a streetmarket around the plant-zone. On other days they also sell more plants on the streets. Just go there sometimes and in the weekend all the shops are open, during the week not.

I don't like to use Bayer but i have very rare fruittree's and don't want them to get eaten alive. I don't know the names of all the insects in my yard but the ones who do the most damage are the mealy bugs which i control by using tanglefoot on the small tree's against ants.

Then i have those leafbiters who just cut off all new mangoleaves, they can deleave a whole new branch in a morning. Bayer helps well against them.

I have very tiny black creatures on the leaves of my pulasan, rambutan, litchi....they make yellow spots in the leaves.

My pluots have spidermites which i can't control without bayer.

My chomphu's waxapples have caterpillars who eat all new leaves but worse is the fruitfly. I don't spray them with bayer when they have fruit.

The abiu has green lice all the time and the mango has scales sometimes.

This is in Bangkok.

Especially when i fertilize Nitrogen i get many pests but especially growing tree's always have insects. They bite young stems because i see tiny drops coming out of them. I don't see what other damage they do but they all had a reason to come to my tree's.

On the picture you see my avocadoproblem. Something made a nest there it seems, maybe a huge spider or so? There were no weaverants.

[drtreelove]

You are up against some formidable odds by growing exotic trees that don't have local, natural selection for local conditions and biological controls in place. And by killing off any natural predators with the Folitec, you are eliminating any natural help for pest control.

Can you get 'insecticidal soap' at your plant market? Not the homemade dishsoap variety but a proven horticultural formulation, mixed according to directions. I would tank mix that with neem oil or petroleum based horticultural oil (at summer rates 1%, so as not to burn foliage), and start to experiment with this substitute for the Bayer product. This covers insect and mite pests as well as fungicidal properties. There will be less impact on beneficials, natural biological controls, than with the Bayer Folitec. But note the sensitive plant cautions on the attached label for M-Pede insecticidal soap. Sample on small area of foliage before spraying everything. Pests do not build physiological resistance to soap and oil like they will with the repeated pyrethroid applications. Cover up, especially your eyes when using the soap. It burns.

At the same time, seriously evaluate your general growing conditions, soil and water management. High nitrogen fertilizer will stimulate excessive vegetative growth that will be attractive to pests. Build complete and balanced soil fertility with soil testing and prescription amendments, and continually build organic matter content with mulch, mulch and more mulch. Mulching is so important for all the right reasons, soil moisture retention, weed suppression, decomposition that builds soil microorganism activity and release of mineral nutrients. Harsh chemical fertilizers kill off the soil biology, including mycorrhizal fungi that are an essential for assimilation of soil based nutrients. This killing off of beneficials and soil biology makes plants more susceptible to pest and disease, and puts you into a cycle of serious pest and disease susceptibility and need for more and more chemical intervention.

I just attended a seminar on Organic Land Care at Willamette U campus in Salem Oregon. The university grounds dept has had an OLC program in place for almost 10 years. They started with a grounds management program that included 60 different chemical pesticides, including insecticides, herbicides, and fungicides. They have been very successful in transitioning away from these and now don't find need for most of these at all. They started with soil testing and prescription amendments, section by section over a 5 year period. They started mulching all open soil surface with wood chips, free from local tree service operations. They keep a 1000 cu yd stock pile and continually replenish mulch in the planting beds. This improves soil tilth and makes weed control more effective and manual weeding easier with the improved conditions, at the same time as building soil organic matter content and soil biology. They phase out plants that have weaknesses to local pest and disease issues and replace with compatible plantings for the growing conditions and pest resistant plant selection. They have planted many flowering plants, fruit and nut trees that attract birds and other biological control assistance. I was amazed at how good this campus landscape looks, including the lawns, and how many trees and shrubs that normally would have pests and disease, are resistant and are not requiring chemical intervention.

We don't even have to label this as "organic". It's just Intelligent Plant Management.

M-Pede Label.pdf

[fruitman]

I only see insecticidal soap being sold online. But i will stop feeding my plants nitrogen since that encourages pests who destroy all new leaves.

My tree's grow in full soil with 30 cm mulch/compost on top of that. They grow well but not all of them. Some are in pots.

I tried many products before, Spruzzit and real neem oil and many more but it all doesn't help against the pests.

Maybe i should feed neemwater to the soil so the whole plants taste more bitter.

Waxapple or Chomphu has the most problems, it seems that every insect likes that tree. I wonder what the thai farmers spray on theirs. Fruitflies love them a lot.

It's fun to grow fruittree's but growing rare fruit is not easy. Also i wonder if the sun is not too strong in Thailand. Brazilian fruittree's bloom a lot but still don't set fruit. Oh well they are still young and i have time enough.

[drtreelove]

Nitrogen is an essential plant nutrient, it's just over-use of concentrated chemical fertilizers and manures that causes problems. There are formulas for estimating appropriate application rates and annual maximums. 2 to 4 pounds of actual N per 1000 square feet annually is one guideline for chemical nitrogen appliation. Your mulch is a good start at building soil organic matter content and a slow, natural nutrient release.

You can look at each plant, new shoot growth and see what kind of annual growth is taking place, and tailor your fertility program accordingly, all factors considered.

Tolerance to full sun exposure will be species specific. Some trees are understory plants in their native habitat and cannot tolerate intense tropical sun; it pays to try and find out as much as possible about various trees you want to grow and their origin, cultural requirements and compatible plantings.

Fruit production is related to overall growing conditions, soil fertility and water management. Some trees must have male and female plants within range of active pollinators to achieve optimum fruit production.

[jlena]

On 19/04/2016 at 3:33 PM, charu said:

Hello There! Greetings! I can arrange neem oil for you! please contact me.. Charu, Bangkok...

Hi Charu, 

I just sent you an email, not sure if you still use the one you mentioned on here. I need some neem oil please. Or if anyone can advise where I can find some?  Can you please get in touch. Many thanks!