The joy of Thai

[northernjohn]

With out going through the list I admit I can not speak Thai. I have a very limited vocabulary

in it and senior moments some times stop me with a simple Sawahdse cup Thai for hello goodbye.

Or that is my understanding of it.

Also my hearing is not good enough to pick up on the tones.

At any rate I do wish I could speak it as there are times I defiantly would like to express my

emotions or cares to my wife at a deeper level.

On the positive side for not understanding it I don't have to listen to those soaps she watches.

Edited February 3, 2015 by northernjohn

[Gecko123]

At any rate I do wish I could speak it as there are times I defiantly would like to express my

emotions or cares to my wife at a deeper level.

Your comment really touched me.

As a special offer just for you, if you would like to PM me a Valentine's Day message for your wife that you would like to have translated, I'd be willing to do that free of charge.

[StreetCowboy]

At any rate I do wish I could speak it as there are times I defiantly would like to express my

emotions or cares to my wife at a deeper level.

Your comment really touched me.

As a special offer just for you, if you would like to PM me a Valentine's Day message for your wife that you would like to have translated, I'd be willing to do that free of charge.

The opportunities for childish malicious humour abound!

SC

[n210mp]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

Cooked,

your last statement hear has made me think.

"I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all"

I am thinking that " the real Thailand" is a different place for different people.

I am guilty of thinking of rural Isaan where I live as "the rel Thailand" and thinking of Bangkok as some other country.

Also of thinking of the tourist areas and expat communities in the south as yet another country.

Where and how you live determines what 'the real Thailand " is for you.

​An English speaking expat living in Patttaya for instance, where there are many English speaking expats, tourist and Thais who work in the service industry, probably has little need to learn to speak Thai in his "real Thailand."

Where I live, there are very few expats, tourist or English speaking Thais.

My "real Thailand is very different and requires very different life skills.

"The Real Thailand" may be a good topic for a new thread here on TV.

Just what and where is "the real Thailand" for you???

Yes you have hit the nail on the head but with my family up North of Khon kaen, learning their version of Thai would only (possibly) be understood by those who are from Isaan and working in Pattaya.

So great in the bars Etc but using the Lao/Thai dialect of Issan wouldn't work too well for the Thais born around Pattaya or Bangkok

Really dont understand why anyone could come up with the idea that not learning just a little of basic Thai wouldn't be a real sensible and "cred" thing for you as a person surrounded by mainly Thai speaking people, even in Pattaya.

I personally have noticed that if you try to talk Thai even though you fail miserably, you always get a positive response.

My lame duck excuse for not learning the Thai language is that I dont think that I will live long enough to actually master the language, then again being cosseted and living in a soi where all the people speak English to me and Thai to my Mrs makes my speaking Thai redundant.

The fact that HID (Her in doors) does all the talking, whether it's ordering a meal or bargaining for a better price for any goods or service, does not either give me a good reason to get off my lazy backside and have a little respect for the community I live in by trying to learn just a few more Thai words, that could not only enhance my knowledge of the Thai culture but help me when it comes to talking to the BIB now and again, who it seems from acquaintances who do speak fluent Thai actually respect a person who can clearly understand them.

There must be a million and one ways that speaking and reading Thai must be beneficial, to say otherwords is both disingenuous and flawed thinking.

I agree 100% with the sentiments of the OP and if I could, I would learn Thai tomorrow

[Swampypoom]

Learning Thai is Smooth As Silk

[StreetCowboy]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

Cooked,

your last statement hear has made me think.

"I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all"

I am thinking that " the real Thailand" is a different place for different people.

I am guilty of thinking of rural Isaan where I live as "the rel Thailand" and thinking of Bangkok as some other country.

Also of thinking of the tourist areas and expat communities in the south as yet another country.

Where and how you live determines what 'the real Thailand " is for you.

​An English speaking expat living in Patttaya for instance, where there are many English speaking expats, tourist and Thais who work in the service industry, probably has little need to learn to speak Thai in his "real Thailand."

Where I live, there are very few expats, tourist or English speaking Thais.

My "real Thailand is very different and requires very different life skills.

"The Real Thailand" may be a good topic for a new thread here on TV.

Just what and where is "the real Thailand" for you???

Yes you have hit the nail on the head but with my family up North of Khon kaen, learning their version of Thai would only (possibly) be understood by those who are from Isaan and working in Pattaya.

So great in the bars Etc but using the Lao/Thai dialect of Issan wouldn't work too well for the Thais born around Pattaya or Bangkok

Really dont understand why anyone could come up with the idea that not learning just a little of basic Thai wouldn't be a real sensible and "cred" thing for you as a person surrounded by mainly Thai speaking people, even in Pattaya.

I personally have noticed that if you try to talk Thai even though you fail miserably, you always get a positive response.

My lame duck excuse for not learning the Thai language is that I dont think that I will live long enough to actually master the language, then again being cosseted and living in a soi where all the people speak English to me and Thai to my Mrs makes my speaking Thai redundant.

The fact that HID (Her in doors) does all the talking, whether it's ordering a meal or bargaining for a better price for any goods or service, does not either give me a good reason to get off my lazy backside and have a little respect for the community I live in by trying to learn just a few more Thai words, that could not only enhance my knowledge of the Thai culture but help me when it comes to talking to the BIB now and again, who it seems from acquaintances who do speak fluent Thai actually respect a person who can clearly understand them.

There must be a million and one ways that speaking and reading Thai must be beneficial, to say otherwords is both disingenuous and flawed thinking.

I agree 100% with the sentiments of the OP and if I could, I would learn Thai tomorrow

The chaps that have waxed most eloquent about learning Thai seem to have made it their life's work. I am happy with the smattering of pidgin Thai I have picked up from a few night classes at SCU and Nana Polytechnic

[Nayet]

All the reasons listed in the OP are obvious attempts to rationalize laziness and/or ineptitude. Oh, the sweet miracle of willful ignorance.

[rgs2001uk]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

Cooked,

your last statement hear has made me think.

"I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all"

I am thinking that " the real Thailand" is a different place for different people.

I am guilty of thinking of rural Isaan where I live as "the rel Thailand" and thinking of Bangkok as some other country.

Also of thinking of the tourist areas and expat communities in the south as yet another country.

Where and how you live determines what 'the real Thailand " is for you.

​An English speaking expat living in Patttaya for instance, where there are many English speaking expats, tourist and Thais who work in the service industry, probably has little need to learn to speak Thai in his "real Thailand."

Where I live, there are very few expats, tourist or English speaking Thais.

My "real Thailand is very different and requires very different life skills.

"The Real Thailand" may be a good topic for a new thread here on TV.

Just what and where is "the real Thailand" for you???

Yes you have hit the nail on the head but with my family up North of Khon kaen, learning their version of Thai would only (possibly) be understood by those who are from Isaan and working in Pattaya.

So great in the bars Etc but using the Lao/Thai dialect of Issan wouldn't work too well for the Thais born around Pattaya or Bangkok

Really dont understand why anyone could come up with the idea that not learning just a little of basic Thai wouldn't be a real sensible and "cred" thing for you as a person surrounded by mainly Thai speaking people, even in Pattaya.

I personally have noticed that if you try to talk Thai even though you fail miserably, you always get a positive response.

My lame duck excuse for not learning the Thai language is that I dont think that I will live long enough to actually master the language, then again being cosseted and living in a soi where all the people speak English to me and Thai to my Mrs makes my speaking Thai redundant.

The fact that HID (Her in doors) does all the talking, whether it's ordering a meal or bargaining for a better price for any goods or service, does not either give me a good reason to get off my lazy backside and have a little respect for the community I live in by trying to learn just a few more Thai words, that could not only enhance my knowledge of the Thai culture but help me when it comes to talking to the BIB now and again, who it seems from acquaintances who do speak fluent Thai actually respect a person who can clearly understand them.

There must be a million and one ways that speaking and reading Thai must be beneficial, to say otherwords is both disingenuous and flawed thinking.

I agree 100% with the sentiments of the OP and if I could, I would learn Thai tomorrow

The chaps that have waxed most eloquent about learning Thai seem to have made it their life's work. I am happy with the smattering of pidgin Thai I have picked up from a few night classes at SCU and Nana Polytechnic

I am happy with the smattering of pidgin Thai I have picked up from a few night classes at SCU and Nana Polytechnic

Good gawd man, crivens, help ma boab, the only thing I picked up there was a dose of the clap.

In all honesty, you are probably fluent in Khmen or Laos, best not repeat the smattering of "Thai" at immigration, probably show you the door.

[loloal]

I will start with one negative point.

When, like me, you have some pretty good grammar fundations but lack vocabulary ; thai people would notice your ability to speak "like a thai" when your in your comfort zone (talking basic stuff, usual topics, ...), then they'll expect you to be totally fluent and will talk to you about anything at very high speed

Actually that's not negative. That's funny, and that helps you to remember that you still have a lot to learn

For me, each time i get talked to "like a thai" is a gift, an opportunity to expose myself to the language as much as possible. The opposite of what WE do when we use words like "same same", or others word construction that we wouldn't use in our home country, but we use here because "Thais think it's the normal way to speak english, I will not correct them !"

Stu Jay Raj called that the "foreigner trap" I guess.

About the unpleasant fact of realizing that Thais are sometimes insulting you, I would balance with the fact that you will sometimes hear good things about you that they don't expect you to understand.

In the last 2 month I remember having been insulted just once, and that wasn't the finest or the most representative Thai people.

On the other side I got to talk with very pleasant thai men and women who don't speak english and always had a lot of fun.

In some 7/11 I will speak only english for some weeks. Then one day switch to Thai. The face of the cashier girls is priceless when they realize I've been understanding their little chats about me all that time

Now ok, you can survive here speaking only english. Deaf-mute people can survive too, why would'nt you.

But speaking and learning thai clearly brings me a way better experience here than just speaking english. Isn't it nice to get to enjoy something as simple and free as words ?

[StreetCowboy]

If there's one thing I can say well, it's "Pu Thai me dai", judging from the lack of credulity I get.

If it's of any help, I learnt this when I was seventeen, talking to Americans - take the piss; exaggerate and lampoon the accent, and they'll understand. Americans really do understand the way we think Americans speak, and similarly, Thais understand what we hear as Thai speech. Mumble like an Englishman, and there's no chance.

SC

[rgs2001uk]

If there's one thing I can say well, it's "Pu Thai me dai", judging from the lack of credulity I get.

If it's of any help, I learnt this when I was seventeen, talking to Americans - take the piss; exaggerate and lampoon the accent, and they'll understand. Americans really do understand the way we think Americans speak, and similarly, Thais understand what we hear as Thai speech. Mumble like an Englishman, and there's no chance.

SC

Years ago on another contract, I was driving the cruiser with one of the "Bacon Brothers", we spotted a hapless Yank walking.

Conversation went something like this,

Bacon Bros, " Do you want a lift to the car park?'

Yank (arai wa?) translated as , can you please repeat in English?

Me to dumb as Geordie, if you want to talk to a Yank, you need to speak his lingo.

Translated as, do you need a ride to the parking lot?

Yank, hell yeah thanks buddy.

Thick as xxxxxx Bacon Bros is still as thick as ferk today.

A story for another day is when he (bacon bros) put the jinglys head into a plate of mulligatany soup.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Rooo
profanity substitute.

[StreetCowboy]

If there's one thing I can say well, it's "Pu Thai me dai", judging from the lack of credulity I get.

If it's of any help, I learnt this when I was seventeen, talking to Americans - take the piss; exaggerate and lampoon the accent, and they'll understand. Americans really do understand the way we think Americans speak, and similarly, Thais understand what we hear as Thai speech. Mumble like an Englishman, and there's no chance.

SC

Years ago on another contract, I was driving the cruiser with one of the "Bacon Brothers", we spotted a hapless Yank walking.

Conversation went something like this,

Bacon Bros, " Do you want a lift to the car park?'

Yank (arai wa?) translated as , can you please repeat in English?

Me to dumb as <deleted> Geordie, if you want to talk to a Yank, you need to speak his lingo.

Translated as, do you need a ride to the parking lot?

Yank, hell yeah thanks buddy.

Thick as ferk Bacon Bros is still as thick as ferk today.

A story for another day is when he (bacon bros) put the jinglys head into a plate of mulligatany soup.

I'll take that as a "Yes" then?

Sorry I couldn't find a clip for the American tourist in Trainspotting, but whenever I've wandered out my depth in Thailand, or other countries, I've thought of that man and that jacket

It'll be fine, until it isn't....

SC

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Yes I'm lazy so I don't wanna learn Thai. How the heck do you know if your experience is better than mine. It's like me sayin I'm not a fat alcoholic so my thai gf experience is better than yours. May I help u with ur horse sir?

[Gecko123]

Yes I'm lazy so I don't wanna learn Thai. How the heck do you know if your experience is better than mine. It's like me sayin I'm not a fat alcoholic so my thai gf experience is better than yours. May I help u with ur horse sir?

No one said their experience was "better" than yours.

The most meaningful basis of comparison would be between an individual's experiences before and after they learned Thai. I, as well as many other posters, made that comparison and reported that being able to communicate in Thai helped enhance their lives here. I say this in the hopes of motivating more people to learn the language. The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone.

The message I was trying to convey in the OP was that if you decide that you're unwilling or unable to learn Thai, that's all fine and good, and I fully understand and appreciate that not everyone can invest the required time and effort. But if you decide not to, please don't turn around and concoct a bunch of lame and irrational excuses (as summarized in the OP) which denigrate Thai people and their graceful language just so you can feel better about that decision. That's just not being fair or honest.

The OP targeted lame and irrational excuse making. It did not target people who can't speak Thai.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Okay

[alantheembalmer]

How degrading it would be to get your wife to do everything for you. Imagine having a wife back home that didn't speak a word of English and you had to do every single thing for her.. Same same no?

Like me, my wife is English, and she does everything for me, and I don't feel degraded in the least.

[MartinL]

I really don’t know whether or not I should contribute to this thread, given the OP’s reminder of his intended purpose – the joys of communicating in Thai.

I live in a totally Thai environment. I know 2 foreigners here and don’t see them for more than a few hours each a year. My wife speaks reasonable English as do some of her friends, her adult sons very little – although I actually think that impression is down to shyness re. her oldest son of 30. My daughter-in-law speaks a little but is eager to learn & certainly not self-conscious about her mistakes J. But generally, very little English is spoken around me.

I’ve always enjoyed learning languages – formal French, German, Spanish lessons at school and Classical Greek as an added extra with no real goal in mind, some Irish & Manx(!!!) just out of curiosity and all largely forgotten now, although I surprised myself by holding a conversation in very hesitant German a year or two ago after 35-odd years of not using a word of it, which made me realise that perhaps the knowledge was still lurking in there somewhere.

I have a reasonable Thai vocabulary, can count, tell the time, know colours, common goods at the market, know adequate words & phrases for booking a hotel room, know about catching buses & trains, can read – or at least, can reproduce (most of) the sounds I see in Thai text, although often the sounds don’t form words I’m familiar with – and can read a Thai bus station ticket office destination/fare board. I can formulate past, present & future of verbs as well as “probably”, “used to” and similar. I can often understand more than 50% of the conversations between my wife & her friends, somewhat less when the conversation is in Isaan Thai rather than Central.

My problem is two-fold. I have GREAT difficulty in understanding most male speakers whereas I find female speakers much easier – maybe it’s the pitch of the voice or perhaps men are more prone to mumbling. I know it’s a common excuse, but tones are a problem for me – maybe ear damage after 40-odd years of motorcycling & working in engineering plants. Whatever it is, with one or two exceptions I find listening to men causes me to miss 90% of what they say. Secondly, I’m not much of a conversationalist even in my native English and never use two words where one will do, tending to be a very quiet person. Possibly, I use that as an excuse not to speak Thai – I often prefer to be on the fringes of a conversation rather than an integral part of it. I know in my mind the Thai words I need to say but there’s some sort of block that prevents it coming out of my mouth – I guess that amounts to a huge lack of confidence. My English written communication can be very good but my verbal communication is abysmal – same with verbal communication in Thai. Reading back those last sentences, they sound ridiculous even to me & no doubt sound the same to those of you reading this. But that’s the situation.

I know … confidence grows with practice. On the rare occasion now when I try speaking Thai, I can make my initial statement – which usually appears to be intelligible if not entirely grammatically correct – but then frequently have trouble understanding the response, which stifles the conversation flow. I’m constantly exposed to Thai and SHOULD be totally comfortable listening & speaking after 5 years in the country. It’s very frustrating to WANT to speak Thai but for the reasons I’ve given – whether or not they’re genuine & valid reasons in your view – it just doesn’t come.

Fire away - tell me I'm being ridiculous. I'm sure it's well-deserved.

[claffey]

I think the better question might be "do you really need to learn Thai?" I do believe the basics, especially numbers, is important, but I have friends that have motorcycled throughout Thailand and speak virtually no Thai. So it is not a necessity to learn Thai to live here, there are many of farangs that are examples. More appropriately, did you come to Thailand to become "Thai" or just come over for the normal obvious reasons: cost of living, girls, weather. If you are an expat and mostly hand with expats, then there probably is little incentive to spend several years trying to learn a language that when you visit a few hundred kilometers away, with a change of dialect, you probably won't understand people anyways (not entirely true, but even my teachers have mentioned they have trouble understanding other dialects). Not all, but the majority of expats that seem to learn better Thai live in areas where it is almost a necessity due to the lack of English speaking Thai people.

For me, I go to a store, ask for something in Thai, they reply in English, so why do I even bother with Thai, plus half the time I just get a blank stare. I asked for 450 baht to top up my phone a few days ago. Nueng and Si are pretty different words. I got 150 baht ticket. If I had just asked for 450 baht there probably wouldn't have been a mistake, lol.

So, I think there are always advantages to knowing the language of a country you where you live. The better your ability, the more conversations you will have. But if you do not interact with Thai people beyond shopping or going to the motorcycle shop, then really, you don't need to learn. It takes a lot of time, effort, money, (homework if you are so inclined), and speaking to learn Thai, and the majority of expats I know are over here to relax and enjoy life, not become a student (which unfortunately is like, dare we say it...work).

Just as some expats are fine living a village lifestyle, others prefer the city. When I first arrived in Thailand I was surprised at how many signs were in English. But I still have learned sufficient Thai to at least order a meal, know the cost, say Hello, so when I am out in the country I have a better chance of making my wishes known. Would I like to be more fluent? Yes. Will I put in the time and effort? No. I do not hang around with Thai people enough to need more Thai.

I think everyone knows there are more benefits to knowing the language (and in many cases you can feign ignorance and not let people know you speak Thai), but not speaking Thai does not seem to really make a significant difference to most of us living over here. Just my thoughts

I agree with your post but could you expand on what exactly the advantages are? I can speak Thai but I'm struggling to find the motivation or time to increase my fluency! So please inspire me!!

[dragonfly94]

For the 'joy' of it?

[Gecko123]

Here's an example from just yesterday of how Thai makes my life easier and more fun.

The two gardening tools in the attached picture needed to be repaired.

The rake on the left from HomePro had a retractable handle which broke 5 minutes after using it for the first time. I needed to buy an aluminum tube which fit the lower half of the rake, and then take the rake to an aluminum shop which could rivet the new handle onto the existing rake.

The hole digger on the right was custom made from a length of steel pipe which had a steel blade welded onto its base. When I went to the blacksmith with the old hole digger which needed to be repaired, they told me I would need to buy a new length of pipe. I went back to the hardware store, and explained to them that I was using the hole digger to pull up scrub trees and wanted the pipe to be a heavier gauge than the old pipe. After finding the right gauge pipe I went back to the blacksmith and they welded the old blade onto the pipe. They also sharpened the blade and ground off the rough edges where the hardware store had cut the pipe to length.

So you know what? It's true. I probably could have accomplished all of this without speaking a word of Thai. Maybe not every little detail would have been addressed, but I'm pretty sure I could have gotten these tools repaired even if I didn't speak a word of Thai. So where's the benefit?

Well, besides making the whole afternoon more pleasant and far less stressful, not just for me, but for everyone who I dealt with, I would say the benefits came from all the incidental interactions which took place in the process of getting the repairs done. For example, at the hardware store, the warehouse guy told me about the aluminum shop across the street, which I wasn't aware had recently opened. We discussed how the aluminum shop would likely repair the rake, so I got a free second opinion beforehand. We also discussed whether it was better to buy a smaller tube to fit inside the rake handle or a larger tube to fit outside the rake handle (the warehouse guy helped by recommending the larger tube which made the rake sturdier and fit my grip better.)

At the blacksmith shop, the owner was a woman. I was curious to know how a woman ended up being a blacksmith. She explained that her husband was a blacksmith, and that she had learned the trade from him. She was flattered by my interest in her life. When she left to run some errands, she made a point of saying goodbye to me.

With all the running back and forth to the hardware store, I had to pass by the hardware store cafeteria several times where two middle-aged women were doing food prep work. Each time I passed, I would pause and ask them what they were doing. "Now what are you doing?" became kind of a running joke, which I'm sure at least made the day go by faster for the women. While waiting for the pipe to be cut at the hardware store, I chatted with another customer who wanted to know what I was going to use the rake for. And back at the blacksmith shop when I was loading the new hole digger into the back of my pickup, a group of motorcycle taxi guys I used to see regularly (but don't any more since buying a pickup a few years ago), called me over and we chatted about the Super Bowl, what I had been up to and if I had been home since they had last seen me.

These incidental interactions may seem trivial to some, perhaps even unwelcome, but for me they are very, very important. Being able to casually interact with people in this way is one of the things I love most about being here. Without Thai, most of these type of interactions wouldn't be possible.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Gecko123

[dragonfly94]

You do have a valid point, and make a good case for it.

[1FinickyOne]

Where I live there are not many farang and very little spoken English, so just being able to talk to people is nice…

Sense of humor - as near everyone is funny and if you are getting a bunch of laughs every day life is infinitely more pleasant… can learn something from the language about the people and culture too… there is a challenge which makes life more interesting… and keeps the brain working… I live here.

ps - I have never encountered any of these things about Thai people not wanting or liking to speak Thai w/Farang… most seem happy that I can speak with them -

[Derek M]

Learning Thai open a whole world of opportunity to see and experience the real Thailand and independence for you..You can also flirt and charm non English Speaking ladies and impress them more. You get set apart and more respect the ladies for those who do not speak the language! After all the best ladies dont speak so much English. Even better when you can speak one or two of the local dialects such as Lanna and/or Isaan.

[mozzer3953]

I can finally have a basic conversation with my girlfriends mum, I have made friends with some people from my gym, and I can read the endless supply of text messages that I get from True! I've never experienced any negativity towards me for speaking and understanding Thai. I suppose it depends where you are in Thailand, and the places you frequent..

[VIPinthailand]

speaking Thai can send yourself to jail.

guys under tourist visa do not suppose to learn Thai, if they do, it s maybe to work illegally.

[RealisticRon]

speaking Thai can send yourself to jail.

guys under tourist visa do not suppose to learn Thai, if they do, it s maybe to work illegally.

huh?

[Gecko123]

speaking Thai can send yourself to jail.

guys under tourist visa do not suppose to learn Thai, if they do, it s maybe to work illegally.

You can be arrested for speaking Thai?

I was not aware of this.

Thanks for sharing!

[CaptHaddock]

I really don’t know whether or not I should contribute to this thread, given the OP’s reminder of his intended purpose – the joys of communicating in Thai.

I live in a totally Thai environment. I know 2 foreigners here and don’t see them for more than a few hours each a year. My wife speaks reasonable English as do some of her friends, her adult sons very little – although I actually think that impression is down to shyness re. her oldest son of 30. My daughter-in-law speaks a little but is eager to learn & certainly not self-conscious about her mistakes J. But generally, very little English is spoken around me.

I’ve always enjoyed learning languages – formal French, German, Spanish lessons at school and Classical Greek as an added extra with no real goal in mind, some Irish & Manx(!!!) just out of curiosity and all largely forgotten now, although I surprised myself by holding a conversation in very hesitant German a year or two ago after 35-odd years of not using a word of it, which made me realise that perhaps the knowledge was still lurking in there somewhere.

I have a reasonable Thai vocabulary, can count, tell the time, know colours, common goods at the market, know adequate words & phrases for booking a hotel room, know about catching buses & trains, can read – or at least, can reproduce (most of) the sounds I see in Thai text, although often the sounds don’t form words I’m familiar with – and can read a Thai bus station ticket office destination/fare board. I can formulate past, present & future of verbs as well as “probably”, “used to” and similar. I can often understand more than 50% of the conversations between my wife & her friends, somewhat less when the conversation is in Isaan Thai rather than Central.

My problem is two-fold. I have GREAT difficulty in understanding most male speakers whereas I find female speakers much easier – maybe it’s the pitch of the voice or perhaps men are more prone to mumbling. I know it’s a common excuse, but tones are a problem for me – maybe ear damage after 40-odd years of motorcycling & working in engineering plants. Whatever it is, with one or two exceptions I find listening to men causes me to miss 90% of what they say. Secondly, I’m not much of a conversationalist even in my native English and never use two words where one will do, tending to be a very quiet person. Possibly, I use that as an excuse not to speak Thai – I often prefer to be on the fringes of a conversation rather than an integral part of it. I know in my mind the Thai words I need to say but there’s some sort of block that prevents it coming out of my mouth – I guess that amounts to a huge lack of confidence. My English written communication can be very good but my verbal communication is abysmal – same with verbal communication in Thai. Reading back those last sentences, they sound ridiculous even to me & no doubt sound the same to those of you reading this. But that’s the situation.

I know … confidence grows with practice. On the rare occasion now when I try speaking Thai, I can make my initial statement – which usually appears to be intelligible if not entirely grammatically correct – but then frequently have trouble understanding the response, which stifles the conversation flow. I’m constantly exposed to Thai and SHOULD be totally comfortable listening & speaking after 5 years in the country. It’s very frustrating to WANT to speak Thai but for the reasons I’ve given – whether or not they’re genuine & valid reasons in your view – it just doesn’t come.

Fire away - tell me I'm being ridiculous. I'm sure it's well-deserved.

A good post that raises some important questions. You feel frustrated that your comprehension, especially of colloquial Thai, isn't sufficient to understand everthing. You think you may have some physical problem that prevents you from being able to hear the Thai tones because why else would you still have difficulty with tones after five years? You have never studied Thai with a competent teacher, but expected to "pick up" the language on your own by immersion.

Does that summarize your first problem at least? If so, then in my opinion you have got the whole thing exactly wrong. You attribute your limited success to some inherent problem in your learning ability, but you never question the completely dubious method you have chosen. Any normal Westerner can become fluent in Thai. The fact that so few do is because they vastly underestimate the amount of work involved and they pick one of the methods that is virtually guaranteed to fail. In your case, why would you expect to be able to "pick up" the Thai language on your own, without competent instruction? Have you ever met any Westerner who did that? Me neither. Why, if the results you have got after five years are not satisfactory do you still not raise the question of whether "picking it up" on your own is ever going to work? Have you achieved milestones in the past year that demonstrate progress? If not, why would you persist in believing that the "picking it up" method is ever going to work? I doubt that it will.

The first month that I started studying in the Intensive Thai Program at Chulalongkorn U. I attended the mini-graduation ceremony for the group of students (most Japanese, a couple of Chinese, and one token American) who were completing the then one-year program. Each student gave a short, extemporaneous talk thanking his teachers and sometimes making a few jokes which the students and Thai audience all laughed at in unison. So those competent students demonstrated the effectiveness of the Chula program. I now study privately at another school where I have also encountered advanced students and graduates who have demonstrated a high level of competence in the language. In the past year I have had some small milestones of specific activities that I now pursue well enough in Thai to dispense with English. So, those two facts taken together form the basis of my confidence in the program I am following. If you haven't seen others succeed with your "pick it up" method and you can't point to concrete examples of improvement in your own skills, then the method you have chosen is not working. It has nothing whatever to do with hearing, etc. I am, by the way, 65 years old and wear hearing aids.

Other methods that are similarly guaranteed to fail are: using books and tapes on your own without a teacher and attending one of the many junk schools teaching Thai. Once again, if you don't meet any successful graduates of your method, it's because there aren't any.

You seem to be motivated. That being the case you can certainly become fluent in Thai, but you need to study with a competent teach who will correct you every time you make a mistake in grammar, usage, or pronunciation of tones, short and long vowels, and consonants. It might be possible to learn this without a teacher. You might also conceivably be able to teach yourself to play the piano without a teacher. But neither approach would be the smart way to go about it.

By the way, Thai men do not typically speak as clearly as Thai women. Nor do more educated Thais of either sex speak a more correct or clear version of the language, as we would expect in the West. There are reasons for this of course, but that's just the way it is.

[kannot]

Yes I'm lazy so I don't wanna learn Thai. How the heck do you know if your experience is better than mine. It's like me sayin I'm not a fat alcoholic so my thai gf experience is better than yours. May I help u with ur horse sir?

No one said their experience was "better" than yours.

The most meaningful basis of comparison would be between an individual's experiences before and after they learned Thai. I, as well as many other posters, made that comparison and reported that being able to communicate in Thai helped enhance their lives here. I say this in the hopes of motivating more people to learn the language. The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone.

The message I was trying to convey in the OP was that if you decide that you're unwilling or unable to learn Thai, that's all fine and good, and I fully understand and appreciate that not everyone can invest the required time and effort. But if you decide not to, please don't turn around and concoct a bunch of lame and irrational excuses (as summarized in the OP) which denigrate Thai people and their graceful language just so you can feel better about that decision. That's just not being fair or honest.

The OP targeted lame and irrational excuse making. It did not target people who can't speak Thai.

Whats graceful about it?

[Gecko123]

Yes I'm lazy so I don't wanna learn Thai. How the heck do you know if your experience is better than mine. It's like me sayin I'm not a fat alcoholic so my thai gf experience is better than yours. May I help u with ur horse sir?

No one said their experience was "better" than yours.

The most meaningful basis of comparison would be between an individual's experiences before and after they learned Thai. I, as well as many other posters, made that comparison and reported that being able to communicate in Thai helped enhance their lives here. I say this in the hopes of motivating more people to learn the language. The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone.

The message I was trying to convey in the OP was that if you decide that you're unwilling or unable to learn Thai, that's all fine and good, and I fully understand and appreciate that not everyone can invest the required time and effort. But if you decide not to, please don't turn around and concoct a bunch of lame and irrational excuses (as summarized in the OP) which denigrate Thai people and their graceful language just so you can feel better about that decision. That's just not being fair or honest.

The OP targeted lame and irrational excuse making. It did not target people who can't speak Thai.

Whats graceful about it?

I can't say I care for the challenging tone of your question, and I am very tempted to tell you to figure out the answer to your questions for yourself. However, with the understanding that my serious effort to answer your question will be respected, I will respond as follows.

Even an early intermediate student of Thai ought to have a dawning awareness that Thai is a very graceful language. Thai has many 'built-in' characteristics that encourage and help facilitate interpersonal verbal communication which can accurately be described as graceful.

For example, many Westerners have commented on the Thai people's seeming pre-occupation with relative status. This attention is reflected in the Thai language as well. Thais use words such as "pii" and "nong" which reflect the relative age of the speakers, or words like "than" to show deference to higher relative social status. There is also vocabulary which is reserved exclusively for the royal family. While some Westerners may choose, ignorantly, to deride this as simply a slavish attention to relative status, this aspect of the Thai language is actually quite useful in helping people avoid interpersonal conflicts by providing opportunities for the speaker to reassure the listener that their social status is not being challenged during a verbal interaction. This aspect of the language helps avoid confrontation. This is a quite diplomatic and graceful characteristic of the language. It should also be noted that this characteristic can be found in many other Asian languages as well, for example, Japanese.

Secondly, Thai has many "helper" words which encourage the listener to consider and accept what the speaker is saying. Words such as "duay" "na" fall into this category. These words can be viewed as diplomatic overtures to try and persuade the listener to accept the speaker's point of view. This diplomatic aspect of the Thai language can well be regarded as graceful as well.

Finally, many have commented that Thai is an imprecise language, and anything but graceful and eloquent. Consider, for example, the verb "satuean jai" (สะเทือนใจ). If you look in a Thai-English dictionary for the definition of this word you will find definitions ranging from "to move (someone) deeply," "to traumatize", "to move (someone)," "to hurt (someone)" and "to touch (someone)." From an English speaker's perspective, you could perhaps be forgiven for concluding that Thai was a very imprecise language. But you would missing the point entirely!!! What Westerners fail to grasp is that that broad range of meaning serves a very valuable purpose. Thai is not a blunt, in-your-face language. The ambiquity about the speaker's intent is intentionally built into the language. The idea is to allow the listener to digest the speaker's intent without forcing the listener to lose face, and be humiliated in the communication process. This confrontation avoidance characteristic is embeded in the Thai personality and reflected in their language, and is truly one of it's most graceful characteristics.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Gecko123