Businessman Sued over Holiday Home that Looks Like Temple Pavilion

[55Jay]

Filed for a Tax ID number (my first time) and return of bank interest tax from last year.

All seemed to be going ok until the main tax office (in Korat) is now asking for my "pension documents".

The money that created the interest was two lump sum SWIFT wires I brought into LoS Spring of 2013. Bought a car then put what was left into BKK Bank fixed accounts which were taxed on maturity Spring of 2014. That's the tax I'm requesting back.

Why is the tax office asking for pension documents?

[chiang mai]

I can only think of two possible reasons, the first being that they want to ensure the subject funds weren't earned in the same year they were received in Thailand because that would make the income taxable. The second is that the tax office is performing some form of money laundering assessment role, in the case of foreigners, checking for source of funds etc..

[meatboy]

I can only think of two possible reasons, the first being that they want to ensure the subject funds weren't earned in the same year they were received in Thailand because that would make the income taxable. The second is that the tax office is performing some form of money laundering assessment role, in the case of foreigners, checking for source of funds etc..

dont worry jay,the wife put her claim in[20k] refund they after a couple of days asked her where she had a large amount from,as this was the first time she had claimed without me although we had claimed refunds the past 5yrs.

after showing them the int.transfer certificate uk.to thailand,house sale,they [korat] told her she will receive her check not more than 14days time, got it yesterday[13days].

[topt]

How would they know you had a pension and what would they say if you said you don't have one?

[meatboy]

How would they know you had a pension and what would they say if you said you don't have one?

how would they know? well topt thats not hard to work out IS IT? they did ask where and how he come to have the money in the first place.

NO PENSION LUMP SUM.

have you been working in thailand mr.jay?

[55Jay]

How would they know you had a pension and what would they say if you said you don't have one?

how would they know? well topt thats not hard to work out IS IT? they did ask where and how he come to have the money in the first place.

NO PENSION LUMP SUM.

have you been working in thailand mr.jay?

Hello Meatboy & CM, thanks for your responses and .

Neither of us work. Fairly typical ~ monthly pension from US bank account brought in via local ATM/ counter withdraws to top up the Thai bank account.

I do have the Bangkok Bank letters showing the two 2013 SWIFT wires from the US. These wires were taken from savings/investements accrued over years, nothing 2013 specific.

We haven't called or visited the Korat tax office yet. Was first getting some feedback here, and brush up on US/Thai tax treaty today. Don't want to say the wrong thing and make this harder than it should be.

[Pib]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

[55Jay]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

Reassuring, thanks Pib. Filed at the small Amphur tax office near the house 2 weeks ago and suppose Korat is the next stop in the food chain. A bit more reading and thread feedback, will give them a call or go visit.

Tx again,

J

[meatboy]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

Reassuring, thanks Pib. Filed at the small Amphur tax office near the house 2 weeks ago and suppose Korat is the next stop in the food chain. A bit more reading and thread feedback, will give them a call or go visit.

Tx again,

J

they are very helpfull at the korat office,although i have a tax id.no.i have never been there,the wife does it all.they filled in all the forms,and asked for copy's of what they needed the wife took them in and they did the rest.

oh if she has to go back in anytime she takes a cake with her

[55Jay]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

Reassuring, thanks Pib. Filed at the small Amphur tax office near the house 2 weeks ago and suppose Korat is the next stop in the food chain. A bit more reading and thread feedback, will give them a call or go visit.

Tx again,

J

they are very helpfull at the korat office,although i have a tax id.no.i have never been there,the wife does it all.they filled in all the forms,and asked for copy's of what they needed the wife took them in and they did the rest.

oh if she has to go back in anytime she takes a cake with her

Ha ha, yeah, sounds my Mrs at Immigration, sometimes her and the nice lady down the end on the left, do more chin wagging than stamping my passport if it's not too busy.

Wasn't sure if this was some extra due dilligence on farang tax refunds ordered by the military government, but I think I've got a sense of it now. Thanks again for your feedback, good to hear Korat specifics as well as general producedures.

Cheers,

J

[Time Traveller]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

Hate to tell you this but technically that military pension is taxable in thailand and you should be declaring it in your tax filing IF you are bringing that money into thailand in the same year you receive it. If not, then that's fine.

You can use tax credits from US to offset Thai tax obligations, but since Thai Tax rates are higher than US personal income tax rates you would be paying not receiving a tax refund.

The fact the revenue department didn't tell you this means either they don't know their own tax law or don't care about enforcing it.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Pib]

Jay,

I haven't filed here in Bangkok yet for my fixed account withholding tax...probably do it tomorrow or Friday....will be the 3d or 4th time for me. But I think one or two times while the tax rep was helping to fill out the tax refund request she did ask if I worked in Thailand or anything and I said No and my U.S. military retirement pension is the source of my income in addition to the little bit of interest I filing the refund request for...wrote the same thing on the tax refund request also. So, far that has always satisfied them...knock on wood (my head).

Pib

Hate to tell you this but technically that military pension is taxable in thailand and you should be declaring it in your tax filing IF you are bringing that money into thailand in the same year you receive it. If not, then that's fine.

You can use tax credits from US to offset Thai tax obligations, but since Thai Tax rates are higher than US personal income tax rates you would be paying not receiving a tax refund.

The fact the revenue department didn't tell you this means either they don't know their own tax law or don't care about enforcing it.

Govt pensions are excluded under the US-Thai tax treaty...plus I don't directly bring then pension into the country during they year like having the money pension direct deposit to a Thai bank account each month. It's gets deposit in one of my U.S. bank accounts instead...I then draw on that pension, savings, etc., via ATM withdrawals, wire transfers, etc. Taxes on the pension are paid in the U.S.

Link to Tax Treaties at Thai Revenue Dept

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/766.0.html

Snapshot from Thai-U.S. Tax Treaty

Edited February 4, 2015 by Pib

[Pib]

Filed my fixed account withholding tax refund request today at my local Bangkok tax revenue office. Since I had over Bt30K interest earned last year I could not file the one page Nor 10 form like previous years, but instead was directed to another section where I had to partially complete a 4 page PND 10 Personal Income Tax form...the form was all in Thai although the version at the link is in English. I just filled in my name, address, phone number, tax ID number at the top of page 1 and waited to be called to see a tax customer service rep.

A rep called my queue number in about 10 minutes, I handed him the form, my passport, bank passbook, and bank letter. He took over from there. He entered the interest info in Section 3 on page two, checked some blocks here and them, I think he made a few entries on page 3, and made some entries on page 4. Only took him about 2 minutes to do all of this...he attached the copies of stuff I gave me, had me sign the tax form, and he signed it. He then directed me to another desk where they took the form and issued me a receipt confirming filing of the tax return. I asked how long for the refund and how would the refund occur. The rep said approx 2 months and by check. Last year it took approx 6 weeks for the check to show up if I remember right.

Summary: Easy and fast.

[55Jay]

............. and so wife called the Korat tax office on my behalf this morning, ready to wave the Star Spangled Banner.

The lady handling my case was out of the office until Monday! Person who answered the phone said they now wanted to see my original passport and original marriage license/document, and that I had to bring them in person to verify, but not until Monday. Nothing about pension source was mentioned, at least not by this voice on the line.

Must be that I'm a Noob and moreover, that I started at a minor tax office in an small Amphur town. I should of listened to my instinct and gone into Korat to begin with.

Monday it is, go see the Big Boss.

[meatboy]

............. and so wife called the Korat tax office on my behalf this morning, ready to wave the Star Spangled Banner.

The lady handling my case was out of the office until Monday! Person who answered the phone said they now wanted to see my original passport and original marriage license/document, and that I had to bring them in person to verify, but not until Monday. Nothing about pension source was mentioned, at least not by this voice on the line.

Must be that I'm a Noob and moreover, that I started at a minor tax office in an small Amphur town. I should of listened to my instinct and gone into Korat to begin with.

Monday it is, go see the Big Boss.

dont forget a bag of tesco's doughnuts[45bht]

[Time Traveller]

Just in case anyone owns Thai shares and does not know, you can also get a refund from any tax credits when they pay dividends.

[Isan Farang]

............. and so wife called the Korat tax office on my behalf this morning, ready to wave the Star Spangled Banner.

The lady handling my case was out of the office until Monday! Person who answered the phone said they now wanted to see my original passport and original marriage license/document, and that I had to bring them in person to verify, but not until Monday. Nothing about pension source was mentioned, at least not by this voice on the line.

Must be that I'm a Noob and moreover, that I started at a minor tax office in an small Amphur town. I should of listened to my instinct and gone into Korat to begin with.

Monday it is, go see the Big Boss.

The first time I applied for my tax number I went to the small office and thought I had a done deal.

One week later I received a letter from the big office asking me to take x, y, z documents. I went and provided everything they asked for and received my refund two weeks later.

Now I only go to the small office, and get my refund after one week, never been asked to go back to the Main office again.

[meatboy]

............. and so wife called the Korat tax office on my behalf this morning, ready to wave the Star Spangled Banner.

The lady handling my case was out of the office until Monday! Person who answered the phone said they now wanted to see my original passport and original marriage license/document, and that I had to bring them in person to verify, but not until Monday. Nothing about pension source was mentioned, at least not by this voice on the line.

Must be that I'm a Noob and moreover, that I started at a minor tax office in an small Amphur town. I should of listened to my instinct and gone into Korat to begin with.

Monday it is, go see the Big Boss.

The first time I applied for my tax number I went to the small office and thought I had a done deal.

One week later I received a letter from the big office asking me to take x, y, z documents. I went and provided everything they asked for and received my refund two weeks later.

Now I only go to the small office, and get my refund after one week, never been asked to go back to the Main office again.

the wife goes to the small office and they send everything to the main,she has had to go to the main every yr.

she got her refund,but they did send a get intouch message yesterday.perhaps te cheque bounced.

[55Jay]

............. and so wife called the Korat tax office on my behalf this morning, ready to wave the Star Spangled Banner.

The lady handling my case was out of the office until Monday! Person who answered the phone said they now wanted to see my original passport and original marriage license/document, and that I had to bring them in person to verify, but not until Monday. Nothing about pension source was mentioned, at least not by this voice on the line.

Must be that I'm a Noob and moreover, that I started at a minor tax office in an small Amphur town. I should of listened to my instinct and gone into Korat to begin with.

Monday it is, go see the Big Boss.

The first time I applied for my tax number I went to the small office and thought I had a done deal.

One week later I received a letter from the big office asking me to take x, y, z documents. I went and provided everything they asked for and received my refund two weeks later.

Now I only go to the small office, and get my refund after one week, never been asked to go back to the Main office again.

That's what I had in mind initially, got the same kind of letter in the post; which is what began the current "Round 2" follow up visits and calls.

I've got lots of free time though, not as bothered by the dysfunction as I thought I would be. Just going with the flow, usually works itself out in the end.

[55Jay]

Visisted the Korat tax office last Monday, and met with the point of contact listed on the letter.

She took another copy of my passport, a copy of the Thai marriage license and a copy of my retired US Gov ID card. She filled up a 1 page form, by hand, giving a summary of me, my pension and that I'm requesting refund of bank interest tax. Said it goes to BKK and if all OK, can expect a refund in a few weeks.

[Pib]

Visisted the Korat tax office last Monday, and met with the point of contact listed on the letter.

She took another copy of my passport, a copy of the Thai marriage license and a copy of my retired US Gov ID card. She filled up a 1 page form, by hand, giving a summary of me, my pension and that I'm requesting refund of bank interest tax. Said it goes to BKK and if all OK, can expect a refund in a few weeks.

Cool...sounds like they used a Kor 10 form like they used for me the previous two years...a really simple form used for amount earned interest amounts up to Bt30K (i.e., total interest earned; not the tax withheld). But this year since I had over Bt30K interest earned they used a four page PND 10 form although most of it was left blank. As mentioned earlier I file in Bangkok and each year it has taken 4 to 6 weeks to get my refund, or at least that what's its been over last two years using the Kor 10 form. This year the PND 10 form was used for the first time. When asking how long the refund would take they said 2 months but I expect that's their standard answer.

As nice to know you may be able to track the status of your refund depending on the tax form used by going to this Thai Revenue Dept webpage and entering your Tax ID number, first/middle name, and last name. The site is in Thai language only and google translate has problems trying to translate. When I checked late last week it basically showed it at being at Step 1/the first round circle which I think meant nothing was in the system yet; however, today it shows it as the second round circle and shows my PND 90 being filed on 5 Feb 15. So, it's progressing along OK...I guess...I hope. Here's the webpage: Link. And here's a redacted snapshot of what it looks like.

[55Jay]

Visisted the Korat tax office last Monday, and met with the point of contact listed on the letter.

She took another copy of my passport, a copy of the Thai marriage license and a copy of my retired US Gov ID card. She filled up a 1 page form, by hand, giving a summary of me, my pension and that I'm requesting refund of bank interest tax. Said it goes to BKK and if all OK, can expect a refund in a few weeks.

Cool...sounds like they used a Kor 10 form like they used for me the previous two years...a really simple form used for amount earned interest amounts up to Bt30K (i.e., total interest earned; not the tax withheld). But this year since I had over Bt30K interest earned they used a four page PND 10 form although most of it was left blank. As mentioned earlier I file in Bangkok and each year it has taken 4 to 6 weeks to get my refund, or at least that what's its been over last two years using the Kor 10 form. This year the PND 10 form was used for the first time. When asking how long the refund would take they said 2 months but I expect that's their standard answer.

As nice to know you may be able to track the status of your refund depending on the tax form used by going to this Thai Revenue Dept webpage and entering your Tax ID number, first/middle name, and last name. The site is in Thai language only and google translate has problems trying to translate. When I checked late last week it basically showed it at being at Step 1/the first round circle which I think meant nothing was in the system yet; however, today it shows it as the second round circle and shows my PND 90 being filed on 5 Feb 15. So, it's progressing along OK...I guess...I hope. Here's the webpage: Link. And here's a redacted snapshot of what it looks like.

Capture2.JPG

Thanks, used it today. They grouped first and middle name so it took some playing around to get my file up.

[Pib]

Yea, unless you enter the info "exactly" as the tax office has entered the info in their computer system a search won't return any status other than saying the system can't find any info on your tax return based on the tax number, name, etc., you entered. And of course it returns the info in Thai which requires you to put google translate to work and then figure out what the poor translation is trying to tell you.. And to enter the info exactly as your tax office entered it they probably entered you first name and middle name in the Given/First name field which is pretty typical for how my other Thai accounts, like bank accounts,are setup. You should have gotten a receipt when filling the return which shows how they have entered your name, tax number, etc.

As of this morning mine is still in the same status as the image I posted earlier...that is, the second round circle which just basically says the return was received/in-work....I filed the returned on 5 Feb...almost to one month now. But for me, my Bangkok tax office has taken around 6 weeks in previous years to get my refund check to me. If I don't get my refund by 5 Apr which would be two months since filing then I'll go do a followup at the tax office, but hopefully the refund will arrive by then.

[Pib]

And here's the status as of today....refund has been approved...now pending issue of the refund check. I filed the refund request on 5 Feb 15. When I checked yesterday it was at the previous step (the middle circle/Step 2). Getting through the first three circles took the longest (the first circle is just acknowledgement they have received your refund request and they have now started processing it...took over a week to turn that first circle green)...and then it took several weeks to move from the first circle to the second circle, and then a week or two to the third circle/Step 2 where it was at yesterday. But only one day to move to the next circle/the fourth circle which it's currently at....guess when it gets near the end things speed up. Hopefully the fifth/last circle turns green soon which I guess means the refund check has been mailed. Total time from the 5 Feb filing is now 1 month 9 days....looks like my Bangkok tax office will meet their refund estimate of 2 months.

[55Jay]

And here's the status as of today....refund has been approved...now pending issue of the refund check. I filed the refund request on 5 Feb 15. When I checked yesterday it was at the previous step (the middle circle/Step 2). Getting through the first three circles took the longest (the first circle is just acknowledgement they have received your refund request and they have now started processing it...took over a week to turn that first circle green)...and then it took several weeks to move from the first circle to the second circle, and then a week or two to the third circle/Step 2 where it was at yesterday. But only one day to move to the next circle/the fourth circle which it's currently at....guess when it gets near the end things speed up. Hopefully the fifth/last circle turns green soon which I guess means the refund check has been mailed. Total time from the 5 Feb filing is now 1 month 9 days....looks like my Bangkok tax office will meet their refund estimate of 2 months.

Capture.JPG

Yes, think the tax lady up here was too optimistic. I've been on bubble #2 for the past week. Really handy website though, thanks again.

[Pib]

Got my Thai withholding tax refund check today in the mail...I filed on 5 Feb at a Bangkok revenue office....received in the mail today/24 Mar. That works out to 6 weeks and 5 days from filing to check in-hand. So the tax office estimate of 2 months was pretty close. Give or take a few days, this year's refund took the approx same amount of time as the two previous years.

Checking the status on web still shows it's still at the next to last bubble like my last post above. However I noticed over the last week the notes in the large text block changed several times with the latest text saying the check was passed to the post office on 23 Mar...if you don't receive it soon call the tax office. So, getting to that next to last bubble appears to be the bubble you want to get to...the Thai wife says the last bubble says the person has received their refund if I understood her right.

Now, I didn't sign for the refund check rec'd today...it was just in my mailbox as a typical piece of mail like in previous years...maybe that last bubble will turn green as maybe there is just some lag time between the bubbles updating although the text in the large block has updated several times to include the note about the check being mailed for delivery. Out of curiosity I'll check the status periodically over the coming days to see if that last bubble turns green also. Tomorrow it's off to the bank to deposit the check.

[55Jay]

Got my Thai withholding tax refund check today in the mail...I filed on 5 Feb at a Bangkok revenue office....received in the mail today/24 Mar. That works out to 6 weeks and 5 days from filing to check in-hand. So the tax office estimate of 2 months was pretty close. Give or take a few days, this year's refund took the approx same amount of time as the two previous years.

Checking the status on web still shows it's still at the next to last bubble like my last post above. However I noticed over the last week the notes in the large text block changed several times with the latest text saying the check was passed to the post office on 23 Mar...if you don't receive it soon call the tax office. So, getting to that next to last bubble appears to be the bubble you want to get to...the Thai wife says the last bubble says the person has received their refund if I understood her right.

Now, I didn't sign for the refund check rec'd today...it was just in my mailbox as a typical piece of mail like in previous years...maybe that last bubble will turn green as maybe there is just some lag time between the bubbles updating although the text in the large block has updated several times to include the note about the check being mailed for delivery. Out of curiosity I'll check the status periodically over the coming days to see if that last bubble turns green also. Tomorrow it's off to the bank to deposit the check.

I moved into bubble #2 not long after the visit to tax office, but it's stalled out there. I think it's been moved to the cardboard box with the yellow sticky note on it - "hold till after Songkran". LOL.

[Pib]

Got my Thai withholding tax refund check today in the mail...I filed on 5 Feb at a Bangkok revenue office....received in the mail today/24 Mar. That works out to 6 weeks and 5 days from filing to check in-hand. So the tax office estimate of 2 months was pretty close. Give or take a few days, this year's refund took the approx same amount of time as the two previous years.

Checking the status on web still shows it's still at the next to last bubble like my last post above. However I noticed over the last week the notes in the large text block changed several times with the latest text saying the check was passed to the post office on 23 Mar...if you don't receive it soon call the tax office. So, getting to that next to last bubble appears to be the bubble you want to get to...the Thai wife says the last bubble says the person has received their refund if I understood her right.

Now, I didn't sign for the refund check rec'd today...it was just in my mailbox as a typical piece of mail like in previous years...maybe that last bubble will turn green as maybe there is just some lag time between the bubbles updating although the text in the large block has updated several times to include the note about the check being mailed for delivery. Out of curiosity I'll check the status periodically over the coming days to see if that last bubble turns green also. Tomorrow it's off to the bank to deposit the check.

I didn't get to deposit my check the next day/25 Mar like I said above but did get to on 26 Mar/Thursday at a Krungsri Bank were I have an account. It was immediately credited to my Balance like shown on your passbook but when looking at my ibanking account it showed in the Balance but the "Available Balance" did not include the deposit of the check...no doubt waiting for the check to clear. Next day 27 Mar/Friday it had cleared and both the Balance and Available Balance were the same.

I frequently checked the "bubble" status on the Thai Revenue website out of curiosity and it still showed all bubbles green "except the last one"...stayed that way on 28 Mar/Saturday and on 29 Mar/Sunday also....then I kinda forgot about it and did not check status on 30 Mar/Mon...didn't check again until a few minutes ago on 31 Mar/Tuesday and now the last bubble is also green and the remarks block says check was cashed/deposited on 26 Mar which is indeed the day I deposited it as mentioned above....and the remarks also included the check number. So the bubble either turned green yesterday or today.

So, I guess that last bubble turning green confirms the refund was cashed....I expect if a person never cashed the refund check that last bubble would never turn green.

[55Jay]

Post #27 was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Post Songkran, I'm still on bubble #2.

Next week has 2 holidays bent into a long weekend as well.

[Pib]

Post #27 was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Post Songkran, I'm still on bubble #2.

Next week has 2 holidays bent into a long weekend as well.

Capture1.JPG

In addition to the bubbles, what is also important to explain the status of your return is what the words say in the "large text box" (not the little one in your image). Cut and paste those words into Google Translate or have a Thai translate them. Hopefully the words will say something along the lines of all forms/requirements have been rec'd/satisfied and now it's just waiting for the next stage which will be the checking cutting/mailing stage...the next to last bubble. And the last bubble just means the check was cashed/deposited according to the Revenue Dept's records.

Yea, from watching the site pretty close this year on my return I found the text in the large block is also important to better/fully explain the status of the return and sometimes changed when the bubble status did not.