UK anti-Semitic incidents hit record in 2014, says charity

[Morch]

You need to listen to the whole programme.

It is an excellent weekly production that debunks so many false claims regarding statistics.

Funny, thought it was actually you who needs to provide support for the claims you make.

Either link something relevant or don't - no intention of going on a goose chase.

[up-country_sinclair]

UK anti-Semitic incidents hit record in 2014, says charity

Just out of curiosity, which charity is claiming this?

The Community Security Trust

Hmmmm....

Never heard of them. Who are they?

CST (Community Security Trust) is proud of Britain's diverse and vibrant Jewish community, and seeks to protect its many achievements from the external threats of bigotry, antisemitism and terrorism.

CST provides physical security, training and advice for the protection of British Jews. CST assists victims of antisemitism and monitors antisemitic activities and incidents. CST represents British Jewry to Police, Government and media on antisemitism and security.

CST believes that the fight against antisemitism and terrorism is an integral part of safeguarding our wider democratic British society against extremism and hatred.

http://www.thecst.org.uk/

Well that's certainly interesting. Are we really relying on them to be unbiased when collecting and analyzing the data in question?

But anyway, what sort of incidents are we primarily talking about?

"The most common single type of incident in 2014 involved verbal abuse directed at random Jewish people in public," the group said in a report. In many cases, "the victims were ordinary Jewish people, male or female, attacked or abused while going about their daily business in public places," it said.

Other forms of abuse included hate mail, threats and abuse on social media, graffiti, and the damaging of Jewish property.

You do have to admire their chutzpah.

[Jay Sata]

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Mark Twain

[Morch]

@up-country_sinclair

Got to admire your persistence in making inane remarks.

Most similar organizations follow the same pattern - it is in the minority's interest to protect its members. Or is it your experience that such efforts are often taken by uninvolved parties? Somehow when similar organizations publish information supportive of your views the clapping icon comes up.

Most similar organizations report similar findings - with the bulk of incidents being verbal or online. There were also violent incidents which were mentioned in the OP and detailed in the report itself.

[Jingthing]

Were it to apply equally to all minorities you would be correct, the fact is Jews are leaving France and Sweden in droves, I don't think you could minimize the rise of antiSemitism in mainland Europe. The UK lags this trend due I guess to a smaller Muslim population relative to say France, but the trend is clear and specific to Jews.

It's not really "in droves" but certainly there is an increase in Jews leaving Europe for negative reasons. There is nothing wrong with deciding to leave Europe if you're attracted someplace else but if the main reason you're leaving is that you don't feel safe living in your home country, that's a problem.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Jingthing

[Morch]

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Mark Twain

So you can look up famous quotes, but unable to demonstrate your claims. What passes here for argument is sometimes astonishing...

[Jingthing]

It is necessary to look at the figure in context.

Here is part of the report...

Garry Shewan, Britain's national police lead for Jewish communities, said the charity's report was in line with increases in anti-Semitic crimes reported to police in recent weeks.

The charity said it received 81 reports of violent anti-Semitic assaults last year, including a victim being verbally abused and hit with a glass and a baseball bat in London.

Most of the reported incidents were not as extreme.

"The most common single type of incident in 2014 involved verbal abuse directed at random Jewish people in public," the group said in a report. In many cases, "the victims were ordinary Jewish people, male or female, attacked or abused while going about their daily business in public places," it said.

So we are looking at 81 incidents across a population of 64 million over 365 days.

Not exactly a huge number?

How's about having a look at the report itself (rather than simply rehashing the OP) and getting a clue?

The report refers to an increase in antisemitic incidents relative to previous years.

This is more like 81 violent incidents across a population of 300k (which is the relevant figure for the minority in question).

Other than you, nobody claimed the number was huge....?

Now that would be very curious indeed if antisemitic (hatred towards Jews) incidents in the U.K. were on the increase against non-Jews!

Of course the number in question when looking at antisemitic (hatred against Jews) incidents is the number of Jews in the U.K., not the total population! The numbers are pretty bad for such a small minority in the U.K. -- the Jews. But as I've said before, if you're in the U,K. whether you're a Jew or not, you can test the atmosphere yourself by walking around the streets wearing a yarmulke (if male) and/or a prominent Star of David. Of course if you want to experience hostility against ISRAEL which is so often closely mixed up with antisemitism, go ahead and walk around in the U.K with a large Israeli flag. You might want to hire a bodyguard though for that.

It's sad that in such a great and civilized country as the U.K. Jewish temples need to be under guard and I'm sure many Jews who would like to be more visible on the streets are choosing not to be out of very rational FEAR of assaults. At least it's not as bad in the U.K. (yet?) as in France and Sweden.

Well, there that....http://www.kippamagic.com/

Also of course the ever so discreet BRAMULKE!

http://estherkustanowitz.typepad.com/

[Wat dee]

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Mark Twain

So you can look up famous quotes, but unable to demonstrate your claims. What passes here for argument is sometimes astonishing...

What is astonishing is your, and likes of you, denial of facts.

[dexterm]

Perhaps it is Likud and the right wing's demand for Israel being recognized as the Jewish State that is causing an increase in these incidents.

Netanyahu insists on recognition of Israel as the Jewish State with some of his cabinet even suggesting the disenfranchisement and deportation of Israeli Arabs who won’t swear allegiance to a Jewish State. Any Jew in the world (however vaguely defined) who has never even set eyes on the place is entitled to migrate to Israel, but Palestinians who were born there cannot even if they are married to an Israeli Arab. Thus the atrocities the IDF instructed by Netanyahu carried out in the Gaza War, were committed by the Jewish State in the name of all Jewish people.

Now I know and you know that not all Jews in the world agree with Israel’s barbaric conduct in the Gaza war, nor its illegal land grab in the West Bank, nor its daily humiliation and violence against occupied Palestinians for the last 67 years.

But it’s not hard to imagine that at the height of the war anti-semites may confuse anything the Jewish state of Israel does with identifiable Jews they see on the street.

Perhaps if Israel became a secular state with equality for all its citizens and made a just peace agreement with its Palestinian neighbors, these anit semitic incidents would decrease.

[Ulysses G.]

So you can look up famous quotes, but unable to demonstrate your claims. What passes here for argument is sometimes astonishing...

At least he used an actual quote - admittedly one that does not apply - instead of trotting out the same old made up nonsense that so many of the compulsive Israel-bashers rely on to make their fictional points. He deserves a little credit for that.

Perhaps it is Likud and the right wing's demand for Israel being recognized as the Jewish State that is causing an increase in these incidents.

[Choctastic]

Faked. Right. Not that you bother to support this with anything, but to be expected.

http://www.thecst.org.uk/docs/Incidents%20Report%202014.pdf

Do a search for 'fake hate crimes' or 'hate crime hoax'. Whether Jews, Muslims, Blacks or Gays, there are enough incidents, reported by mainstream media, to warrant more thorough checking of reports.

Of course Israel's actions in Gaza would cause a backlash against Jews generally. How could it not be?

http://www.truetorahjews.org/issues/haaretzopinion

'Did Bibi Netanyahu and his cabinet give even a moment's thought to the concern that the war might put Jews outside of his country in danger and arouse anti-Semitism worldwide? No, there is no doubt that our welfare doesn't enter their calculations. On the contrary, if anything they benefit from danger to Jews in other countries in the form of immigration to the State of Israel. So how long will we, Jews of the world, continue sticking our necks out for the Israeli leaders?'

Instead of berating those who actually possess a moral compass, on Thai Visa, Jewish defenders should get back to their own leaders and ask them to stop fuelling 'anti-semitism' and desist from slaughtering the innocent.

[Ulysses G.]

Interesting how the exact same posters who obsessively attack Israel and claim that it has nothing to do with hatred of Jews, are on this thread trying to negate anti-Semitism and claim that it either does not exist or is vastly over-exaggerated. Some even go as far as insisting that the actual dictionary definition is wrong.

Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1][2] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

[Jay Sata]

I see you are trying to sidetrack this discussion which is solely about disputed figures from a questionable UK organisation.

When were you last in the UK?

Do you know who a Gerald Ronson is?

The head of the Community Security Trust who produced these small but questionable figures is paid close on £200,000 a year.

In contrast global anti-poverty group Action Aid, which employs 145 people and has a turnover of £60 million, pays its chief executive around £90,000 a year.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Morch]

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Mark Twain

So you can look up famous quotes, but unable to demonstrate your claims. What passes here for argument is sometimes astonishing...

What is astonishing is your, and likes of you, denial of facts.

What facts would those be?

The whole point was the alleged "facts" regarding the reports supposed "inaccuracies" were not presented.

[Scott]

Please stay on the topic of the thread. Personal remarks directed at other posters will result in suspensions.

Edit: A post violating Fair Use has been removed.

[Steely Dan]

Interesting how the exact same posters who obsessively attack Israel and claim that it has nothing to do with hatred of Jews, are on this thread trying to negate anti-Semitism and claim that it either does not exist or is vastly over-exaggerated. Some even go as far as insisting that the actual dictionary definition is wrong.

Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1][2] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

It's interesting too how other groups and nationalities can slaughter their neighbors or minorities with far greater gusto than Israel manages, yet it never seems to result in attacks on said nations citizens when they move to other Countries, let alone attacks on their co-religionists. It makes as much sense as it would to attack Thais in Europe because some Burmese Buddhist monks instigated riots in which Muslims were killed, or indeed attacks on Turks for their ongoing suppression of the Kurds in their own Country.

To make the link between the Jewish diaspora and Israel is in effect believing in original sin.

[Credo]

It's interesting too how other groups and nationalities can slaughter their neighbors or minorities with far greater gusto than Israel manages, yet it never seems to result in attacks on said nations citizens when they move to other Countries, let alone attacks on their co-religionists. It makes as much sense as it would to attack Thais in Europe because some Burmese Buddhist monks instigated riots in which Muslims were killed, or indeed attacks on Turks for their ongoing suppression of the Kurds in their own Country.

To make the link between the Jewish diaspora and Israel is in effect believing in original sin.

When you are hater, then you look for any excuse to take action against those you hate.

It is also effective to discredit the sources and to minimize the actions directed at those they dislike.

Lots of groups of people face discrimination. This does not justify the actions taken against any one group, nor does it lessen the impact.

[Jay Sata]

Let's get our facts straight.

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

According to the BBC Radio 4 programme More or Less the numbers are loosely collated.

These include violent attacks on people or property, threats, anti-Semitic graffiti and online expressions of anti-Semitism.

The recent report consists of unaudited figures.

For crime to be recorded in the UK the police have to issue a crime number. The published numbers are not official government statistics.

I spent many years working in London and in all honestly I have never witnessed any sort of anti semantic incident.

It is easy for others to parrots these statistics but If you don't live in the UK you don't know what you are talking about.

[Credo]

So, for those of us who don't live in the UK, only government statistics are OK? Can we comment if we have spent time in the UK or lived there in the past? Must we be a current resident?

Perhaps you could supply us with the government statistics?

[Morch]

Faked. Right. Not that you bother to support this with anything, but to be expected.

http://www.thecst.org.uk/docs/Incidents%20Report%202014.pdf

Do a search for 'fake hate crimes' or 'hate crime hoax'. Whether Jews, Muslims, Blacks or Gays, there are enough incidents, reported by mainstream media, to warrant more thorough checking of reports.

Of course Israel's actions in Gaza would cause a backlash against Jews generally. How could it not be?

http://www.truetorahjews.org/issues/haaretzopinion

'Did Bibi Netanyahu and his cabinet give even a moment's thought to the concern that the war might put Jews outside of his country in danger and arouse anti-Semitism worldwide? No, there is no doubt that our welfare doesn't enter their calculations. On the contrary, if anything they benefit from danger to Jews in other countries in the form of immigration to the State of Israel. So how long will we, Jews of the world, continue sticking our necks out for the Israeli leaders?'

Instead of berating those who actually possess a moral compass, on Thai Visa, Jewish defenders should get back to their own leaders and ask them to stop fuelling 'anti-semitism' and desist from slaughtering the innocent.

In most forms of debate, the one making a claim needs to demonstrate it, not the other way around.

Did my posts have anything to do with denying a link between Israel's actions and antisemitic incidents? Does the report itself ignore this? Apparently, even pointing out that these actions are not the core cause of antisemitism and antisemitic incidents irks some.

Ooh, the moral compass....sure. We few etc. Get off your high horse, please.

[Morch]

Let's get our facts straight.

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

According to the BBC Radio 4 programme More or Less the numbers are loosely collated.

These include violent attacks on people or property, threats, anti-Semitic graffiti and online expressions of anti-Semitism.

The recent report consists of unaudited figures.

For crime to be recorded in the UK the police have to issue a crime number. The published numbers are not official government statistics.

I spent many years working in London and in all honestly I have never witnessed any sort of anti semantic incident.

It is easy for others to parrots these statistics but If you don't live in the UK you don't know what you are talking about.

It would be so much easier if you actually manage to present those alleged facts, rather than simply claiming that they are.

Provide a proper link to the claims related to the BBC's More or Less, and they could be discussed. The OP would indicate that the UK police does not necessarily share your point of view.

If you are not Jewish, there is little reason to expect that you would witness much antisemitic incidents. The report does not claim that violent, or real life incidents are overwhelmingly common.

As for:

It is easy for others to parrots these statistics but If you don't live in the UK you don't know what you are talking about.

Doesn't stop you from commenting on things happening in countries where you don't reside, or haven't even visited, does it?

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.

The topic is about anti-semitic incidents in the UK. It's not about incidents against gays or Muslims.

Please stay on topic.

[Jay Sata]

The numbers are minuscule.

The charity said it received 81 reports of violent anti-Semitic assaults last year, including a victim being verbally abused and hit with a glass and a baseball bat in London.

Most of the reported incidents were not as extreme.

As the population of the UK is around 64 million that is less than 1.5 crimes per million people.

Not exactly large numbers.

[Credo]

The numbers are minuscule.

The charity said it received 81 reports of violent anti-Semitic assaults last year, including a victim being verbally abused and hit with a glass and a baseball bat in London.

Most of the reported incidents were not as extreme.

As the population of the UK is around 64 million that is less than 1.5 crimes per million people.

Not exactly large numbers.

This is from the OP:

The Community Security Trust said it recorded 1,168 incidents across the country in 2014 — more than double the 535 cases documented in 2013, and the highest yearly total since the group began monitoring anti-Semitism in Britain in 1984.

So doubling of the numbers is not significant? If you want to compare the significance, then compare it to the number of Jewish people who were victims.

[Ulysses G.]

The figures are not accurate as was pointed out in a recent edition of the More or Less programme on BBC Radio 4.

The article linked does not say that the figures related to the OP are inaccurate.

Indeed. Unfortunately, linking to sources that do not support false claims, by the member making them, has become very common amongst some posters on this forum. Never just take for granted that a link says what is suggested by the member posting it, without reading it for yourself.

[Morch]

The numbers are minuscule.

The charity said it received 81 reports of violent anti-Semitic assaults last year, including a victim being verbally abused and hit with a glass and a baseball bat in London.

Most of the reported incidents were not as extreme.

As the population of the UK is around 64 million that is less than 1.5 crimes per million people.

Not exactly large numbers.

Why keep comparing the figures to the overall population when the report deals with the Jewish minority?

The Jews in the UK number around 300K.

Most of the reported incidents being verbal or online corresponds to data reported by similar organizations monitoring incidents of hate crime.

[up-country_sinclair]

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

Exactly. By any measure, the figures released by CST cannot be trusted because they have an undeniable conflict of interest.

And by the way, has this (**cough**, ** cough**) "charity" released the specific details of these alleged incidents? Surely there must be official police reports for most of them. Did the police categorize these incidents as "hate crimes" or did they determine that many were just cases where the victim just so happened to be Jewish? And as for the online abuse, I'd really like to know its percentage of the total incident amount.

Again, in some ways CST's chutzpah is admirable. In other ways it turns my stomach.

[Ulysses G.]

Why keep comparing the figures to the overall population when the report deals with the Jewish minority?

The Jews in the UK number around 300K.

To try to make the problem seem less appalling.

[Credo]

So, give us some other figures from somewhere else, like maybe the government. Organizations routinely keep track of reports like this.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Credo

[Chicog]

'We’re leaving Britain - Jews aren’t safe here any more’ After watching the rise in anti-Semitism in this country, the Gould family has taken the radical decision to emigrate to America. They tell Angela Epstein why

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11393427/Were-leaving-Britain-Jews-arent-safe-here-any-more.html