UK anti-Semitic incidents hit record in 2014, says charity

[dexterm]

Why keep comparing the figures to the overall population when the report deals with the Jewish minority?

The Jews in the UK number around 300K.

To try to make the problem seem less appalling.

Just as the Community Security Trust in the OP is trying to make it seem more appalling. Part of their hidden agenda...to create the miasma of Jewish victimhood. They are trying to conflate UK Jews with Israeli Jews. So that when the next major government decision re Middle East affairs occurs voters will have a vague notion of Israeli Jews being the victims rather than the aggressors.

Edited February 8, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

"Hidden agenda". Please spare us the usual conspiracy theories.

[Morch]

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

Exactly. By any measure, the figures released by CST cannot be trusted because they have an undeniable conflict of interest.

And by the way, has this (**cough**, ** cough**) "charity" released the specific details of these alleged incidents? Surely there must be official police reports for most of them. Did the police categorize these incidents as "hate crimes" or did they determine that many were just cases where the victim just so happened to be Jewish? And as for the online abuse, I'd really like to know its percentage of the total incident amount.

Again, in some ways CST's chutzpah is admirable. In other ways it turns my stomach.

The conflict of interest would be what? That the CST is a Jewish organization? Well, who would you expect to monitor these sort of things, the Icelandic Cultural Society? Or is it the notion that they have some vested interest in inflating the numbers? As the OP indicates the UK police seems to feel that the report was in line with their own sources. This is expanded upon in the report itself.

Instead of coughing, you could just check the report itself - the methodology is quite clear, and there are ample cases detailed.

The chutzpah here is yours - you make hints and allegations which are clearly in contradiction to the OP, and which are clearly dismissed by having a look at the report itself. Something which, it seems, non of the ardent critics actually did.

[Morch]

Why keep comparing the figures to the overall population when the report deals with the Jewish minority?

The Jews in the UK number around 300K.

To try to make the problem seem less appalling.

Just as the Community Security Trust in the OP is trying to make it seem more appalling. Part of their hidden agenda...to create the miasma of Jewish victimhood. They are trying to conflate UK Jews with Israeli Jews. So that when the next major government decision re Middle East affairs occurs voters will have a vague notion of Israeli Jews being the victims rather than the aggressors.

From the OP:

Garry Shewan, Britain's national police lead for Jewish communities, said the charity's report was in line with increases in anti-Semitic crimes reported to police in recent weeks.

[Jingthing]

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

Exactly. By any measure, the figures released by CST cannot be trusted because they have an undeniable conflict of interest.

And by the way, has this (**cough**, ** cough**) "charity" released the specific details of these alleged incidents? Surely there must be official police reports for most of them. Did the police categorize these incidents as "hate crimes" or did they determine that many were just cases where the victim just so happened to be Jewish? And as for the online abuse, I'd really like to know its percentage of the total incident amount.

Again, in some ways CST's chutzpah is admirable. In other ways it turns my stomach.

The conflict of interest would be what? That the CST is a Jewish organization? Well, who would you expect to monitor these sort of things, the Icelandic Cultural Society? Or is it the notion that they have some vested interest in inflating the numbers? As the OP indicates the UK police seems to feel that the report was in line with their own sources. This is expanded upon in the report itself.

Instead of coughing, you could just check the report itself - the methodology is quite clear, and there are ample cases detailed.

The chutzpah here is yours - you make hints and allegations which are clearly in contradiction to the OP, and which are clearly dismissed by having a look at the report itself. Something which, it seems, non of the ardent critics actually did.

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

[up-country_sinclair]

This coughing business is insulting.

Contact this "charity".

I'd guess that they'll figure out a way to add another "incident" to their number of "attacks".

Edited February 8, 2015 by up-country_sinclair

[Scott]

'We’re leaving Britain - Jews aren’t safe here any more’ After watching the rise in anti-Semitism in this country, the Gould family has taken the radical decision to emigrate to America. They tell Angela Epstein why

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11393427/Were-leaving-Britain-Jews-arent-safe-here-any-more.html

I think this article posted by Chicog provides a little background and information about the situation for Jews in Britain. It also addresses a little of what the charity does. It also references remarks from the police.

[Bwanatickey]

BBC radio 4 program " More or less " behind the stats looked into these claims by this charity.

Looks like just another charity justifying it's existence to use this opportunity to get more money money money.

U.K charities are big business.

[Jingthing]

BBC radio 4 program " More or less " behind the stats looked into these claims by this charity.

Looks like just another charity justifying it's existence to use this opportunity to get more money money money.

U.K charities are big business.

Antisemitic (hatred against Jews) incidents are reported to be on the rise in Europe in general ... particularly France and Sweden, so it's only logical there would be increases in the UK as well. Just observing this very forum which gets a lot of Europeans, you can see the antisemitic (hatred against Jews) rhetoric has increased greatly. So I don't share the skepticism that the reports don't reflect a reality. It is impossible to measure such sociological things to a scientifically accurate level of preciseness, but you can see general TRENDS.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

The problem is that such attacks are on the rise against muslims as well - which is probably exactly what these terrorists want.

Create a divide and stoke up resentment.

[Morch]

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

Exactly. By any measure, the figures released by CST cannot be trusted because they have an undeniable conflict of interest.

And by the way, has this (**cough**, ** cough**) "charity" released the specific details of these alleged incidents? Surely there must be official police reports for most of them. Did the police categorize these incidents as "hate crimes" or did they determine that many were just cases where the victim just so happened to be Jewish? And as for the online abuse, I'd really like to know its percentage of the total incident amount.

Again, in some ways CST's chutzpah is admirable. In other ways it turns my stomach.

The conflict of interest would be what? That the CST is a Jewish organization? Well, who would you expect to monitor these sort of things, the Icelandic Cultural Society? Or is it the notion that they have some vested interest in inflating the numbers? As the OP indicates the UK police seems to feel that the report was in line with their own sources. This is expanded upon in the report itself.

Instead of coughing, you could just check the report itself - the methodology is quite clear, and there are ample cases detailed.

The chutzpah here is yours - you make hints and allegations which are clearly in contradiction to the OP, and which are clearly dismissed by having a look at the report itself. Something which, it seems, non of the ardent critics actually did.

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

Insulting how? Pathetic, maybe? Ridicules?

[Morch]

The problem is that such attacks are on the rise against muslims as well - which is probably exactly what these terrorists want.

Create a divide and stoke up resentment.

What terrorists?

Antisemitic incidents are a cunning plan do drive a wedge between minorities in the UK?

Edited February 8, 2015 by Morch

[Jingthing]

Insulting how? Pathetic, maybe? Ridicules?

All of that and more ...

[Seastallion]

These figures come from the Community Security Trust which is a lobby group.It monitors anti-Semitic incidents.

You can see from my previous posts regarding their structure that they have an agenda and the head of the organisation has to justify his very high remuneration.

Exactly. By any measure, the figures released by CST cannot be trusted because they have an undeniable conflict of interest.

And by the way, has this (**cough**, ** cough**) "charity" released the specific details of these alleged incidents? Surely there must be official police reports for most of them. Did the police categorize these incidents as "hate crimes" or did they determine that many were just cases where the victim just so happened to be Jewish? And as for the online abuse, I'd really like to know its percentage of the total incident amount.

Again, in some ways CST's chutzpah is admirable. In other ways it turns my stomach.

The conflict of interest would be what? That the CST is a Jewish organization? Well, who would you expect to monitor these sort of things, the Icelandic Cultural Society? Or is it the notion that they have some vested interest in inflating the numbers? As the OP indicates the UK police seems to feel that the report was in line with their own sources. This is expanded upon in the report itself.

Instead of coughing, you could just check the report itself - the methodology is quite clear, and there are ample cases detailed.

The chutzpah here is yours - you make hints and allegations which are clearly in contradiction to the OP, and which are clearly dismissed by having a look at the report itself. Something which, it seems, non of the ardent critics actually did.

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

This is a good example of a situation where antisemitism is seen in every shadow. Reds under the bed.

The "cough cough" was clearly meant to indicate that the "charity" has doubtful and suspicious mandate and purpose. "Jewish" was not intended to preface "charity".

[Jay Sata]

The figures they quote have to be taken in context and in fact come in way under other crimes such as attacks on football club supporters by rival team supporters.

Compared to the UK population they are minuscule.

Some of the strident posters here have obviously never set foot in Great Britain.

A trip to an football match might have them racing to register hate crimes.

By way of explanation this letter to the Guardian in London may help.

As a Jewish Spurs supporter, I take issue with David Baddiel's letter (Spurs shame, 10 November). It is a shame that he chooses to interpret the "semiotic" behind the chant in question as: "We are so proud of being Spurs fans, we'll even embrace being called Yids of all things, if it identifies us with the club."

The truth is that Spurs fans were subjected to chants of "Yiddo" and the like by supporters of other London clubs presumably because of the proximity of our ground to Stamford Hill. I do not remember a similar furore being raised over that. In response, Spurs fans decided not to ignore this, not to retaliate in kind, but to say effectively: "OK, if you want to call us that, we will take on the identity of Jews and support and acclaim our team using the above expression and variants of it." The absolutely fantastic response given to the appearance of Fabrice Muamba last Thursday night shows how far from racism the overwhelming majority of Spurs fans are. There are surely enough examples of genuine anti-semitism and racism in Britain and internationally still to take issue with without turning on chants which are clearly not intentionally anti-semitic.

David Lister

London

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/nov/13/jews-proud-spurs-fans

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Ulysses G.]

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

This is a good example of a situation where antisemitism is seen in every shadow. Reds under the bed.

The "cough cough" was clearly meant to indicate that the "charity" has doubtful and suspicious mandate and purpose. "Jewish" was not intended to preface "charity".

Yeah sure. Just say "the Jews" and get it over with.

[Morch]

The figures they quote have to be taken in context and in fact come in way under other crimes such as attacks on football club supporters by rival team supporters.

Compared to the UK population they are minuscule.

Some of the strident posters here have obviously never set foot in Great Britain.

A trip to an football match might have them racing to register hate crimes.

By way of explanation this letter to the Guardian in London may help.

As a Jewish Spurs supporter, I take issue with David Baddiel's letter (Spurs shame, 10 November). It is a shame that he chooses to interpret the "semiotic" behind the chant in question as: "We are so proud of being Spurs fans, we'll even embrace being called Yids of all things, if it identifies us with the club."

The truth is that Spurs fans were subjected to chants of "Yiddo" and the like by supporters of other London clubs presumably because of the proximity of our ground to Stamford Hill. I do not remember a similar furore being raised over that. In response, Spurs fans decided not to ignore this, not to retaliate in kind, but to say effectively: "OK, if you want to call us that, we will take on the identity of Jews and support and acclaim our team using the above expression and variants of it." The absolutely fantastic response given to the appearance of Fabrice Muamba last Thursday night shows how far from racism the overwhelming majority of Spurs fans are. There are surely enough examples of genuine anti-semitism and racism in Britain and internationally still to take issue with without turning on chants which are clearly not intentionally anti-semitic.

David Lister

London

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/nov/13/jews-proud-spurs-fans

Antisemitic attacks are similar to football club rivalry related incidents? Are you for real?

If that was the case, which minority group in the UK is targeted by Jews, then?

And again, why insisting on comparing figures to the UK total population? Its the other way around - compare the number of incidents to the size of the minority involved.

[Morch]

The report states there were 81 violent crimes against Jewish people in the UK last year. Expressed against a population of 64 million that is extremely low by any for of measurement.

However to inflate the figure and I quote......

"The most common single type of incident in 2014 involved verbal abuse directed at random Jewish people in public," the group said in a report. In many cases, "the victims were ordinary Jewish people, male or female, attacked or abused while going about their daily business in public places," it said.

Why do you keep insisting on comparing the figure to the total population of the UK?

How does the quoted bit indicated anything to do with inflating incidents? There are violent incidents and then there are others, no attempt at mixing them other then by yourself.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been removed. If you wish to compare statistics then do so in a factual and statistically significant manner, otherwise, it is simply comparing apples to oranges.

[Jay Sata]

I cite the figures because they are very low.

Anti gay or anti Muslim attacks are much higher as a proportion.

You just don't want to face facts that 81 incidents out of a total population of 64 is minuscule.

I get the impression you are parroting the report and have never lived in the UK.

I'm getting the impression that you do not get the point.

Citing the figures in comparison to the overall population while disregarding the size of the targeted minority would always create the impression of it being a non-issue.

There being a steep rise in the number of incidents, is another indication that there is a problem.

The argument is not that violent antisemitic incidents are an everyday occurrence, but that compared to the size of the minority group in question, the figures are worrying. Obviously, there could be, overall, more anti-gay and anti-Muslim related incidents, but then again these two groups are much larger than the Jewish community.

Whether one sets 64 million or 300K as the benchmark changes the picture.

It seems as if you are not familiar with the content of the report, but parroting objections anyway. As for residence - I don't recall that stopping yourself from commenting on whatever you feel like, even with regards to places where you obviously never set foot in.

I never comment on places I have not set foot. I am extremely well travelled and and still at it.

You dear sir have no comprehension of the well balanced multi ethnic mix in the UK and the relatively low rate of crime.

This lobby group has plucked these figures from thin air with no sources to back them up. No doubt the head of the charity has to justify his £200k salary. I cannot find evidence of the victims of these supposed hate crimes in a UK local or national newspaper.

Any individual or organisation can make spurious claims but without evidence they are worthless.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Well, it sounds like the British government is motivated to take action. Synagogues need to be guarded. That's a shame that it's needed; so many people who hate Jews (antisemities) make it necessary though.

Overall, it appears quite clear that the Jews of Britain while facing increased antisemitism are in a better place than the Jews in France and Sweden.

It is a good thing that there is Israel and that she stays strong against her relentless enemies, but it is also a good thing that Jews can be themselves, happy and safe to be at home in other countries as well.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Monday that the lawmakers’ report was “hugely important,” Reuters reported. “No disagreements over foreign policy or politics can ever be allowed to justify anti-Semitism or any other form of racism, prejudice or extremism,” he was quoted as saying.

The report urged authorities to take action to “ensure Jewish communities have the necessary protection from the continuous terrorist threat they face,” including providing security at synagogues by means of a dedicated government fund.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-needs-to-take-urgent-action-over-anti-semitism-lawmakers-say/

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

If these crimes have taken place they must be in the local UK press but I cannot find one. What we have is a lobby group trying to inflate figures. Non of my critics can find newspaper reports of such crimes.
I lived in Golders Green for a couple of years and never saw any incident that could in any way be construed as a anti Jewish hate crime.

This is all scaremongering as illustrated by this story from the Jerusalem Chronicle

Security groups have called on the London Jewish community to remain calm after a false alarm was raised on social media and neighbourhood forums over men behaving suspiciously.
Yesterday afternoon, messages were circulated calling on the community to report a car seen in a Jewish area of north-west London to police, including anti-terrorism officers.
It was claimed that the car had men in it taking notes outside several kosher shops in Golders Green. Once spotted and approached, they zoomed off.
But authorities have confirmed that there was nothing suspicious about the car, which was driven by an elderly man.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/128559/police-move-calm-fears-after-false-alarm-over-golders-green-car

[up-country_sinclair]

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

This is a good example of a situation where antisemitism is seen in every shadow. Reds under the bed.

The "cough cough" was clearly meant to indicate that the "charity" has doubtful and suspicious mandate and purpose. "Jewish" was not intended to preface "charity".

Yeah sure. Just say "the Jews" and get it over with.

If I had wanted to say "Jewish charity", I would have written Jewish charity. The "cough, cough" is a very common way to indicate the belief that something is not what it claims to be. Seriously, how is this obviously political lobbying group considered a "charity"? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks for perfectly illustrating a point I made earlier in the thread about many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people and they or the **cough, cough** "charity" turned it into something it wasn't. That said, actual hate crimes against any group or individual should be aggressively prosecuted.

Some are just a bit too anxious to find antisemitism under every rock. Try keeping your powder dry, because if/when actual incidents occur, you don't want to be with even less credibility than you have now.

[Morch]

I cite the figures because they are very low.

Anti gay or anti Muslim attacks are much higher as a proportion.

You just don't want to face facts that 81 incidents out of a total population of 64 is minuscule.

I get the impression you are parroting the report and have never lived in the UK.

I'm getting the impression that you do not get the point.

Citing the figures in comparison to the overall population while disregarding the size of the targeted minority would always create the impression of it being a non-issue.

There being a steep rise in the number of incidents, is another indication that there is a problem.

The argument is not that violent antisemitic incidents are an everyday occurrence, but that compared to the size of the minority group in question, the figures are worrying. Obviously, there could be, overall, more anti-gay and anti-Muslim related incidents, but then again these two groups are much larger than the Jewish community.

Whether one sets 64 million or 300K as the benchmark changes the picture.

It seems as if you are not familiar with the content of the report, but parroting objections anyway. As for residence - I don't recall that stopping yourself from commenting on whatever you feel like, even with regards to places where you obviously never set foot in.

I never comment on places I have not set foot. I am extremely well travelled and and still at it.

You dear sir have no comprehension of the well balanced multi ethnic mix in the UK and the relatively low rate of crime.

This lobby group has plucked these figures from thin air with no sources to back them up. No doubt the head of the charity has to justify his £200k salary. I cannot find evidence of the victims of these supposed hate crimes in a UK local or national newspaper.

Any individual or organisation can make spurious claims but without evidence they are worthless.

And still you can't figure why comparing the figures to overall population rather than to the minority in question is misleading...

As for continuing to claim that the figures are plucked from "thin air", and with "no sources to back them up" - this is directly from the OP (again):

"Garry Shewan, Britain's national police lead for Jewish communities, said the charity's report was in line with increases in anti-Semitic crimes reported to police in recent weeks."

There is greater detail regarding methodology in the report itself. On the contrary, other than alleging that the figures are incorrect, there was not one link provided to a source that clearly point that out. How can such a claim even be discussed?

Any individual or organisation can make spurious claims but without evidence they are worthless.

Your posts seem to illustrate this issue very clearly.

[Jay Sata]

Let's look at that quote.

Garry Shewan, Britain's national police lead for Jewish communities, said the charity's report was in line with increases in anti-Semitic crimes reported to police in recent weeks."

Reported does not mean they are actually crimes as illustrated with my story from the Jewish Chronicle about the so called incident in Golders Green.

If you bothered to read it you will see it was a whole load of fuss over nothing.

London and the UK has very broad multi cultural society where any form of racial attack is extremely rare.

Get googling and show me local newspaper reports of these attacks.

We have the most and the best newspapers in the world so there must be pages to illustrate your point instead of trying to quote misleading figures from a so called charity.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Ulysses G.]

And still you can't figure why comparing the figures to overall population rather than to the minority in question is misleading...

Looking at it logically would not support the false narrative that he keeps insisting on.

[Morch]

Let's look at that quote.

Garry Shewan, Britain's national police lead for Jewish communities, said the charity's report was in line with increases in anti-Semitic crimes reported to police in recent weeks."

Reported does not mean they are actually crimes as illustrated with my story from the Jewish Chronicle about the so called incident in Golders Green.

If you bothered to read it you will see it was a whole load of fuss over nothing.

London and the UK has very broad multi cultural society where any form of racial attack is extremely rare.

And if you bothered to look at the report itself, as you were encouraged to do - you'd find more details on the cooperation with the police and on how incidents were classified. That you decide to assume all or most were bogus, is a personal choice.

[Jay Sata]

Unlike you I live in the UK and speak from experience.

You appear to just want to parrot these incorrect and dubious figures without the experience of knowing what life in the UK is like.

You appear to suggest that Great Britain is a dangerous places for Jewish people who all need police protection.

Nothing could be further than the truth.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Chicog]

The problem is that such attacks are on the rise against muslims as well - which is probably exactly what these terrorists want.

Create a divide and stoke up resentment.

What terrorists?

Antisemitic incidents are a cunning plan do drive a wedge between minorities in the UK?

After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, the number of race-related incidents against muslims in the UK spiked.

One of the most common interpretations of what Islamic terrorist leaders want is to generate anti-muslim sentiment in the West and thus stoke up anti-Western sentiment in muslim communities.

So in a roundabout way, the answer to your question is yes.

But my point mainly was that racist attacks are up in the UK, not just against Jews - and this suits certain peoples agenda.

[Morch]

<snip>

Get googling and show me local newspaper reports of these attacks.

We have the most and the best newspapers in the world so there must be pages to illustrate your point instead of trying to quote misleading figures from a so called charity.

Gets tricky replying to posts when they keep getting edited...

Err, no - I'm not the one making the claim that the OP is bogus, you are. If you wish to demonstrate that is a fact do so. It is not my task to support facts appearing in the OP because you claim that they aren't real. The OP is related to a report, which is available to the public and supported by local law enforcement agencies - this is good enough for debate purposes. Assuming that posters need to supply outside evidence for each OP is ridiculous.