Breaking free from the Shinawatras

[Scott]

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy.

The thread is about the Shinawatra family. I think we can dispense with baiting posters into naming others as this would violate both forum rules and probably have legal consequences.

One post has been removed.

[Credo]

I was here long before the Shinawatra family was on anyone's radar screen. The country was corrupt then and it remains corrupt. Certain groups and families have a long history of controlling the country. Within the provinces there are families with immense power and this filters up. The power, influence and booty they took from the country was considered their God-given right. For a very long time, it went unchallenged.

The appearance of the Shinawatra family upset that balance and those previously in control were not going to go away quietly. And they haven't.

Prior to the Shinawatra family, I never heard any of the poorer segment of the population talk about politics. Now they do care. He, and his family, have unleashed a genie and I don't think it will ever be put back in the bottle, at least not without very drastic (and probably tragic) consequences to the country.

The current situation is nothing more than half-time at a football match.

[ianf]

what's this guy's point? The title is 'breaking free...' but it isn't about that.

editorial nonsense.... next.

Heed our own advice, have another coffee and try to read the article again.

It seems that it is beginning (albeit very very slowly) to dawn on even the staunchest red shirt that their struggle for "democracy and against dictatorship" is and has been in reality nothing more than protection of the assets and personal well-being of the Shinawatra clan. There is hope once the "lower classes" realize that it is not in their interest to fight and die for a billionaire´s purse.

When will the Shin sympathizers in this forum begin to see the light?

Well said. Anyone with even an ounce of sense can see that Mike is stating the obvious. Well worded & succinct, Mike hits the nail on the head.

What interests me is how those 'diehard' Shin supporters here (on TV) can really justify their stand. There is nothing to support, except the Shin's need for control which would ultimately lead to dictatorship. I've often referred to Reich's Mass Psychology of Facism which in parts goes a long way to explaining why people need to support Dictators or would-be dictators. Sadly, the sociopaths who need to take control of countries, companies - even sports in Armstrong's case - rely on the support of emotionally weak people. These are often folk who need a firm hand, a father figure or someone who oozes power no matter how they achieve that power and no matter who's lives they destroy on the way. These are people with their own emotional inadequacies. We've seen it here. It's about time that the Shin's are fully exposed for what they are and there are many resources on the internet and many psychological studies that would help the TV Shin supporters understand what they are really supporting.

[Thailand]

I was here long before the Shinawatra family was on anyone's radar screen. The country was corrupt then and it remains corrupt. Certain groups and families have a long history of controlling the country. Within the provinces there are families with immense power and this filters up. The power, influence and booty they took from the country was considered their God-given right. For a very long time, it went unchallenged.

The appearance of the Shinawatra family upset that balance and those previously in control were not going to go away quietly. And they haven't.

Prior to the Shinawatra family, I never heard any of the poorer segment of the population talk about politics. Now they do care. He, and his family, have unleashed a genie and I don't think it will ever be put back in the bottle, at least not without very drastic (and probably tragic) consequences to the country.

The current situation is nothing more than half-time at a football match.

Great post that hits the nail on the head. I have also been around a while and the half time analogy is very pertinent. The poor uneducated etc,as the majority of citizens are often referred to,were given their voice by the Shins and they will use it again, hopefully not in the tragic way!

[rubl]

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How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

and the other elite who normally strangle Thailands lifeblood through corruption and by considering 'their' province 'their' province, fieflike as it where ? Even Thaksin of the Shinawatra topic here is such an 'elite' figure, Amply rich as well. Fearsome and terrifying when his wealth is threatened, no qualms in organising riots, have some grenade lobbing terror and so. Allegedly of course. Maybe that's why some of his (non-)followers were discussing a 'free' Lanna State. To break away from it all and let their 'leader' take his 'rightful' place as becomes someone with such 'austere' family background.

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

[The manic]

Under the democratic government opponents were allowed to demonstrate and voice their opinions. Under the military regime all opposition is silenced. The article above does not deal with this basic issue, nor does it look at the inherent corruption such as the military budget.

[rubl]

I was here long before the Shinawatra family was on anyone's radar screen. The country was corrupt then and it remains corrupt. Certain groups and families have a long history of controlling the country. Within the provinces there are families with immense power and this filters up. The power, influence and booty they took from the country was considered their God-given right. For a very long time, it went unchallenged.

The appearance of the Shinawatra family upset that balance and those previously in control were not going to go away quietly. And they haven't.

Prior to the Shinawatra family, I never heard any of the poorer segment of the population talk about politics. Now they do care. He, and his family, have unleashed a genie and I don't think it will ever be put back in the bottle, at least not without very drastic (and probably tragic) consequences to the country.

The current situation is nothing more than half-time at a football match.

'he and his family' may have unleashed a genie, but not for the genie's sake. The genie better not forget that before 'he' will force it back into it's bottle.

Somsak Jeamteerasakul, the hardcore leftist mocked Panthongthae Shinawatra after Thaksin's son responded to his aunt's impeachment with the rallying cry, "Are you ready?"

Maybe we can ask Thaksin where he was when the first shots were fired in 2010. Oh, shopping with daughters in Paris ?

The genie should work on self-reliance and self-entitlement it would seem.

[rubl]

Under the democratic government opponents were allowed to demonstrate and voice their opinions. Under the military regime all opposition is silenced. The article above does not deal with this basic issue, nor does it look at the inherent corruption such as the military budget.

The article is about other things, like breaking free from the Shinawatras.

[lildragon]

I'm pro democracy BUT I don't support this megalomaniac at all. The old elites are just as corrupt as Thaksin and were before, during, and after him. However, the poor of this country need to find a new hero as Thaksin is just another Ammat warring with the old guard.

I'm hoping there is nobody Thaksin affiliated running in the next election, a new candidate, a fresh start. I won;t hold my breath though.

[Chris Lawrence]

The big question that is not answered is what Thailand has got in its place. Thaksin was self-serving, but isn't this a common trait in most of the Governments elected or forced into power.

The return to democratic rule would be a better story, but these right wing tabloids can't talk about this as they will spend time being re-educated.

Of course that question was not answered, how could the OP answer something that is asked by you after it's publication? The OP was not trying to answer any questions, it was a valid editorial opinion on the standing of the Shinawatras in many individuals eyes.

Also I think you'll find that The Nation is a broadsheet and trying to decry it by referring to it as a tabloid is nonsensical.

To each their own Swiss.

But aren't you sick of propaganda that supports a regime that took over a country? Or are you content with a regime that wants gone corruption, human trafficking; and wants a better legal system, a fair constitution, a better deal for politicians and their voters. At least tells the country of Thailand that.

So what about the new police chief (he and his wife estimated wealth @328 million baht), Pineapple company progress on human trafficking and fishing industry, the Burmese lads awaiting court, the jurno's reporting on involvement in illegal activities, exclusion of an opposition potentially directed by a constitution.

I don't know what country you come from Swiss, but if my country' unelected government was posting this type of rubbish, using the press, then I would be saying something. Remember, all press has to be approved by the Military lads. It is a broadsheet but its jurno's constantly report on conservative right wing stories which are best described as tabloid journalism. I do find the original post as sensational journalism.

Valid editorial? How many times does this subject get paraded out? Can't you even understand the hypocrisy in such a story to modern day Thailand and politics? Its 'groudhog day' reporting.

The Nation has a predisposition and a staunch preference to report on conservative right wing journalism. This is best described as a bias.

But Swiss wouldn't it be great to hear what is really going on?

[Chris Lawrence]

Under the democratic government opponents were allowed to demonstrate and voice their opinions. Under the military regime all opposition is silenced. The article above does not deal with this basic issue, nor does it look at the inherent corruption such as the military budget.

The article is about other things, like breaking free from the Shinawatras.

So what you are saying rubi is that you are treating articles like this as your therapy?

How many more do you need.

Didn't the General say the country has to move on? Then why is the same ad being run?

[h90]

Get rid of the Shins, then the Military and Thailand may just have a chance.

If you get rid of the Shins, Military gives back democracy in 2-10 years another guy like Thaksin comes. Maybe here and there different in style but the same breed.

[Robby nz]

Under the democratic government opponents were allowed to demonstrate and voice their opinions. Under the military regime all opposition is silenced. The article above does not deal with this basic issue, nor does it look at the inherent corruption such as the military budget.

Unfortunately under the, sort of, democratic (we were elected we can do what we want) govt of Yingluck there were many instances of attempts to silence critics and opposition.

Things like the reds burning coffins, intimidating judges by hate speech and giving out their home addresses, intimidation of the NACC and anyone else who dared to challenge them.

The reds did all the could to disrupt the democrats meetings with the people, I can post some more photos as proof if you wish.

Tarit and Chalerm looking for anything they could possibly hope to pin on the Democrats, a good example of that was the debacle when a case was taken to the OAG regarding party donations from Democrat MP's being made by electronic means rather than by check or cash, this was dismissed by the OAG as frivolous.

In Thaksins day he intimidated the press with massive law suites in an attempt to silence them.

The problem we have is that the shin supporters only look at one side of everything, coming from an entrenched position as they are, they can never see (admit to) any bad that the shins have done or any good that anyone else has done or is doing.

If you believe all opposition is silenced you have not been reading the editorials and comments in the papers, at times they have been quite scathing in their criticism, of course it depends what you term 'opposition'. If you are only referring to the trouble makers, then they need silencing.

[rametindallas]

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

The reason is simple... That family robbed and raided the Thai taxpayers money with impunity... is there something about that which is not understandable...

Winston Churchill got it right...You can fool some of the people..etc,etc...........

Good quote - but not Churchill.

It was US President Abraham Lincoln

[rubl]

Under the democratic government opponents were allowed to demonstrate and voice their opinions. Under the military regime all opposition is silenced. The article above does not deal with this basic issue, nor does it look at the inherent corruption such as the military budget.

The article is about other things, like breaking free from the Shinawatras.

So what you are saying rubi is that you are treating articles like this as your therapy?

How many more do you need.

Didn't the General say the country has to move on? Then why is the same ad being run?

What I'm saying is "The article is about other things, like breaking free from the Shinawatras."

It's not about but, but ,but what about the others.

[Thai at Heart]

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How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

and the other elite who normally strangle Thailands lifeblood through corruption and by considering 'their' province 'their' province, fieflike as it where ? Even Thaksin of the Shinawatra topic here is such an 'elite' figure, Amply rich as well. Fearsome and terrifying when his wealth is threatened, no qualms in organising riots, have some grenade lobbing terror and so. Allegedly of course. Maybe that's why some of his (non-)followers were discussing a 'free' Lanna State. To break away from it all and let their 'leader' take his 'rightful' place as becomes someone with such 'austere' family background.

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

There is a massive difference between the son of a northern pooyai being elite and the established moneyed elite in Bangkok.

They consider Thaksin a noveau riche interloper who has no right to sit at their table.

[rubl]

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I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

and the other elite who normally strangle Thailands lifeblood through corruption and by considering 'their' province 'their' province, fieflike as it where ? Even Thaksin of the Shinawatra topic here is such an 'elite' figure, Amply rich as well. Fearsome and terrifying when his wealth is threatened, no qualms in organising riots, have some grenade lobbing terror and so. Allegedly of course. Maybe that's why some of his (non-)followers were discussing a 'free' Lanna State. To break away from it all and let their 'leader' take his 'rightful' place as becomes someone with such 'austere' family background.

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

There is a massive difference between the son of a northern pooyai being elite and the established moneyed elite in Bangkok.

They consider Thaksin a noveau riche interloper who has no right to sit at their table.

So what? Does that make the misuse of the poor locals for ones own gain more acceptable? The 'holier than thou' attitude? 'Look, I care, I give them money (I took from others)'?

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some including the odd TVF poster it would seem.

[waitforusalso]

"he launched a variety of policies in favor of the masses. In fact, according to the pole survey by ABAC, these policies attracted a great deal of support from the people: 84% for OTOP, 81% for the 30-baht medical services, and 79% for village funds scheme in contrast to 39% for anti-corruption campaign and 35% for restructuring of state enterprises (Tamada 2005, 182–183)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"Thaksin’s great victory in the general election was interpreted by a royalist-military group as a potential and serious menace to the monarchy system. At the same time, Thaksin’s reform of the budget system at the expense of defense matters has always irritated a military group. In addition, he directly intervened in the top personnel manage­ment of the military by appointing his cousin in 2003. These activities finally resulted in the counter-balancing activity of a royalist-military coup to oust Thaksin from the power in 2006 (Wasana 2008)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"From 2000-2004, poverty dropped from 21% to 11% and agricultural incomes rose by 40%, higher than the rise in any other forms of income (see page 14 of the same World Bank report mentioned in the that post)"

World Bank

"Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000)"

World Bank, Thailand Economic Monitor November 2005

I put back my quote about 'perception of price raises' and since you're so into the 'Thaksin Years' may I add

"Chris Baker says: "The clever thing Thaksin did was that, unlike previous figures who made money by dipping their hands in the till, he used power to increase the profits of his companies, and increase the number of companies in which he had a stake.""

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26000693

So, breaking away from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

Statistics & facts VS an opinion piece. Lame!

[falangjim]

I know. I can't stand her either. That monstrous bum she put on full naked display in a magazine, and then she had the gall to want to adopt a Thai child on her first visit here. She's a disgrace. Wait. We were talking about breaking free from the Kardashians, right?

[ianf]

Yingluck ran for election quite openly as a proxy for her 'brother', a convicted criminal who fled overseas so as not to serve a 2 year jail sentence as well as loads of other pending criminal court cases. The election motto for Thaksin Shinawatra's "Peua Thai" political party was : "Thaksin Thinks, Peua Thai Does" making it quite clear that this convicted criminal was trying to rule the country through his party and his 'sister'. Indeed, such a stance alone marks him out as an undemocratic dictator whatever Eric may say.

[halloween]

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How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

The "elite" are somebody to hate, Thailand's equivalent to Europe's Jews, somebody who is perceived (and it is not necessarily true) to have a better lifestyle or education, more money or success. They are someone to blame other than yourself because your life is shit. And that is easier to swallow than admitting that your choices are what makes your life shit, especially when some agitator is handing out money for booze to wash it down with.

[mikemac]

I know. I can't stand her either. That monstrous bum she put on full naked display in a magazine, and then she had the gall to want to adopt a Thai child on her first visit here. She's a disgrace. Wait. We were talking about breaking free from the Kardashians, right?

Yingluck and big bro used to put a "monstrous bum" on display at times, and even allowed to make public announcements. That was Chalerm.

[Robby nz]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

The "elite" are somebody to hate, Thailand's equivalent to Europe's Jews, somebody who is perceived (and it is not necessarily true) to have a better lifestyle or education, more money or success. They are someone to blame other than yourself because your life is shit. And that is easier to swallow than admitting that your choices are what makes your life shit, especially when some agitator is handing out money for booze to wash it down with.

Indeed the so called elite have been turned into a boggy man for political advantage and are now used as an excuse for the shins in particular to do as they like.

They are also used as a weapon against the main opposition the Democrats by telling the gullible the Democrats are only there to benefit the elite, who we cant name or talk about.

Convenient isn't it that they cant be named or talked about for then all sorts of lies can be told which cant be refuted.

The shins have shameless set themselves us as the party of the poor while being at present No6 on the Thai rich list.

Their parties and MP's have several times been banned for electoral fraud, the latest party paid their MP's an added salary above their parliamentary salary, reported to be 100,00b per month for elected MP's and 50,000b per month for list MP's while the Democrats paid a part of their parliamentary salary into the party.

We know this because :

Pheu Thai MPs still unhappy with their salaries, Friday, 30 September 2011

A source for the Pheu Thai party has revealed that Pheu Thai MPs have just begun to receive their salaries. Constituency MPs are paid 100,000 THB a month, twice as much as the amount paid to Pheu Thai MPs when they were Opposition members. Party-list MPs meanwhile are paid 50,000 THB a month

And

Pheu Thai MPs moan: No work, no pay

27.10.2014 - 07:47

Former Pheu Thai MPs, once oozing largesse and living la dolce vita courtesy of the deep-pocketed Thaksin Shinawatra, are crying poor-mouth today now that they are no longer on the party payroll. Since the May 22 coup, the party has withheld their salaries and they are hurting financially, a party source revealed on Sunday.

And :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/634765-thailands-d-s-i-calls-in-democrat-m-ps-over-party-donations/

DSI calls in Democrat MPs over party donations

So which is the rich party the one which can afford to pay their MP's extra or the one where the MP's pay into party funds and where does this 'extra' money come from ?

[alant]

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

try reading Thai Recent History

What a good suggestion and who wrote the history?

[alant]

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

The reason is simple... That family robbed and raided the Thai taxpayers money with impunity... is there something about that which is not understandable...

Winston Churchill got it right...You can fool some of the people..etc,etc...........

If that was the case of course I could and would understand it, I assume you can give me the figures of these matters. It would help me understand as well if I could feel pretty certain that only they did such things. I don't recall Churchill using this quote, Abe Lincoln used a similar one. Must look up Churchill

[scorecard]

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If that was the case of course I could and would understand it, I assume you can give me the figures of these matters. It would help me understand as well if I could feel pretty certain that only they did such things. I don't recall Churchill using this quote, Abe Lincoln used a similar one. Must look up Churchill

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

The reason is simple... That family robbed and raided the Thai taxpayers money with impunity... is there something about that which is not understandable...

Winston Churchill got it right...You can fool some of the people..etc,etc........... alt=whistling.gif>

Perhaps you might like to expand your overall knowledge of the whole last 10 - 12 years, then you would quite likely have multiple items of information which would negate any need whatever to ask now for specific figures.

[scorecard]

Elites / not accepted by the old elite.........

Thai at heart.... doing a revisit to the Robert twist and confuse playbook, starting again at item 1 are we?

[Ragzilb]

Ragzilb said and I quote" The Shins have a lot of money invested in Thailand and countried around Thailand as well."

Care to elaborate at little more on the names of these interests and their links to the Shinawatras? A little investigation into these interests might be needed to see if positions in power were abused acquiring these interests. Corruption is their middle name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intouch_Holdings

and the list goes on

[Thai at Heart]

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I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

and the other elite who normally strangle Thailands lifeblood through corruption and by considering 'their' province 'their' province, fieflike as it where ? Even Thaksin of the Shinawatra topic here is such an 'elite' figure, Amply rich as well. Fearsome and terrifying when his wealth is threatened, no qualms in organising riots, have some grenade lobbing terror and so. Allegedly of course. Maybe that's why some of his (non-)followers were discussing a 'free' Lanna State. To break away from it all and let their 'leader' take his 'rightful' place as becomes someone with such 'austere' family background.

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

There is a massive difference between the son of a northern pooyai being elite and the established moneyed elite in Bangkok.

They consider Thaksin a noveau riche interloper who has no right to sit at their table.

So what? Does that make the misuse of the poor locals for ones own gain more acceptable? The 'holier than thou' attitude? 'Look, I care, I give them money (I took from others)'?

Breaking free from the Shinawatras, not easy for some including the odd TVF poster it would seem.

Just makes him loaded. Not elite.

[Thai at Heart]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened

The "elite" are somebody to hate, Thailand's equivalent to Europe's Jews, somebody who is perceived (and it is not necessarily true) to have a better lifestyle or education, more money or success. They are someone to blame other than yourself because your life is shit. And that is easier to swallow than admitting that your choices are what makes your life shit, especially when some agitator is handing out money for booze to wash it down with.

Nice diatribe.

No one minds wealthy people, no one likes when the country is run exclusively to their benefit. The Thai elite has to give a little or it will be in bigger trouble later on.