NACC To Prosecute Former PM For Yellowshirt Crackdown

[jdinasia]

Two words... Airport Takeover

Two words...Protest .....Peaceful (relatively by the Yellows as I recall)

what's with this myth about the yellow shirts being peaceful?

He clearly used the qualifier "relatively".

Over time they certainly defended themselves more aggressively but with the mitigation of constant attacks by the redshirts.

yeah, this is more of the selective defence of violence that seems to happen a lot here.

I don't buy it from either the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the governments of the day, or (especially) the military.

Then there is Majic's (essential) denial that the yellow shirts were violent at all. That is incorrect, and it's extremely selective.

Let's be honest, over decades and decades, the worst offender have been the military.

While being honest, the redshirts were far more violent than the yellows.

I never have claimed that the yellows were not violent, just less so than the redshirts.

This case is not actually about the redshirts or the yellows (directly); it is about Somchai and his crackdown.

Personally, I don't think he is any more directly responsible for the deaths than Abhisit is of later deaths. That being said the weapons used, and more particularly how they were used was criminal in a way that 2010 was not.

[waitforusalso]

The evidence of yellow violence is overwhelming. From automatic weapons to bombs & of course using vehicles to ram police. And they were not confronted by the military as Anupong out-rightly refused Somchai & told him to step down. We can only imagine the level of violence that would have incurred if the army had marched on the airport at dusk.

[tbthailand]

How dare they try to take the airport back from the criminal yellows shirts who held thousands of foreign tourists hostage including children and infants. These mongrel caused great pain and anguish to many people from around the world. I had an appointment in Melbourne that I couldn't make and lost a few thousand dollars because of the lowlife yellows. Many tourists were extremely grateful that they were freed and able to get home after the government acted. The government were the good guys and the heros in the eyes of tourists and the yellows were seen as evil thugs.

Amazing double standard in Thailand. The Yellows are really just old bullies. So sad to see the injustice when Abhisit was responsible for the death of nearly a hundred. No reconciliation now.

The amazing thing is that this isn't about the airport, nor was there a crackdown at the airport. Just grenades thrown at the PAD by the redshirt terrorists when the PAD was there for 8 days

no ... this is about the 2 PAD protesters who blew themselves up with their own bombs.... The extremely neutral and fair NACC will try to pin it on the PM at the time because they 'have lots of evidence'...

This NACC is a joke, a real joke.

I should apologize for being too lazy ... Only the man was blown up inside his own car and probably from his own explosives.

Nong Bow's death is undetermined. The yellow shirts described her as just one of the peaceful protesters in the back who was killed by the violence of the police. It was never clear how she was killed, but the location of her death was at the front-line of the conflict, not the back... She became a rallying cry for the yellow shirts in any case...

[tbthailand]

The evidence of yellow violence is overwhelming. From automatic weapons to bombs & of course using vehicles to ram police. And they were not confronted by the military as Anupong out-rightly refused Somchai & told him to step down. We can only imagine the level of violence that would have incurred if the army had marched on the airport at dusk.

We can only imagine the level of violence that would have incurred if the army had marched on the airport at dusk

but of course they never would have done that.

They were part of the same side of the conflict then as they are today...

[heybruce]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

[lildragon]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

This is basically the attitude of the old ruling elite.

I'm no fan of old square head, he's an egomaniac and Thailand is better off without him, but THIS is the age old alternative? A bunch of self serving and just as corrupt dinosaurs?

And their are foreigners on here sticking up for them like they are the saviors

[rubl]

The evidence of yellow violence is overwhelming. From automatic weapons to bombs & of course using vehicles to ram police. And they were not confronted by the military as Anupong out-rightly refused Somchai & told him to step down. We can only imagine the level of violence that would have incurred if the army had marched on the airport at dusk.

We can only imagine the level of violence that would have incurred if the army had marched on the airport at dusk

but of course they never would have done that.

They were part of the same side of the conflict then as they are today...

True, true. Mind you we do know what happened when some 'unknowns dropped grenades in DM Airport in 2008.

Anyway the former PM Somchai will get his day in the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders.

[rubl]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

[heybruce]

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

Edited February 9, 2015 by heybruce

[MAJIC]

tbthailand reply to Post No 178

"Then there is Majic's (essential) denial that the yellow shirts were violent at all. That is incorrect, and it's extremely selective"

You are twisting my words! I never denied that the Yellow shirts were violent at all,my qualifying word was "Relatively" which meant : compared to the Red Shirts,as well you know! and there was no (essential) denial from me as you wrongly claimed,those that replied to my Post had no problem understanding my words, so I fail to see why you have chosen to misinterpret my Post!

Please be aware I do not propose to engage in drawn out waste of time, convoluted arguments!

[rubl]

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

This may surprise you, but there is no such thing as collective prosecution in thailand. It step by step. With former PM Somchai brough to the Supreme Court on charges of "abuse of power" there's even a better change we will get Abhisit/Suthep on same charges (rather than the somewhat strange "premeditated murder" charge in the Criminal Court). Even Ms. Yingluck can then get the same charge for her non-involvement in the anti-government attacks.

So, former PM Somchai will first get his chance to clear his name.

[rubl]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

This is basically the attitude of the old ruling elite.

I'm no fan of old square head, he's an egomaniac and Thailand is better off without him, but THIS is the age old alternative? A bunch of self serving and just as corrupt dinosaurs?

And their are foreigners on here sticking up for them like they are the saviors

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

[tbthailand]

tbthailand reply to Post No 178

"Then there is Majic's (essential) denial that the yellow shirts were violent at all. That is incorrect, and it's extremely selective"

You are twisting my words! I never denied that the Yellow shirts were violent at all,my qualifying word was "Relatively" which meant : compared to the Red Shirts,as well you know! and there was no (essential) denial from me as you wrongly claimed,those that replied to my Post had no problem understanding my words, so I fail to see why you have chosen to misinterpret my Post!

Please be aware I do not propose to engage in drawn out waste of time, convoluted arguments!

OK, well then I misunderstood your intention. My apologies.

That said, I do not find the yellow shirts to be relatively less violent than the red shirts. There are differences however I would argue that the different levels of violence are due to the relative escalation of violence over time, and the political environment (eg: reaction of the sitting government).

[lildragon]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

This is basically the attitude of the old ruling elite.

I'm no fan of old square head, he's an egomaniac and Thailand is better off without him, but THIS is the age old alternative? A bunch of self serving and just as corrupt dinosaurs?

And their are foreigners on here sticking up for them like they are the saviors

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

The military should stick to their word and have a proper clean up. They are busy hunting down PTP members are putting them on trial yet no one from the dems has been as far as I know and some of their members have very questionable past dealings, especially the now monk...

If they were serious they'd clean out both parties to the point that they are virtually unrecognizable. The dems should ditch Apphasit because he'll never win an election and PTP should either disband or have someone competely dis connected from Thaksin so it's just not another proxy government of his.

Sadly all I'm seeing is one way traffic and another route to install the Apphasit lead dems shoe horned into power. If that happens then this whole mess will start all over again. Simmiarly if an obvious Thaksin proxy runs for PM. I don't see the army trying to break either status quo.

[rubl]

The answer is simple.

The good General needs to round up all of these commies. Yes commies. If you're against the military government then you must be a commie. What else can they be? Enough is enough.

Who do these people think they are? For decades the same families have been at the top table and now these 'Shins' turn up? I'm sorry, but this is members only. Off with their heads. What is needed is the end of free healthcare for the poor and free education. This is ridiculous! Why should WE have to worry that our grandkids may only be able to fly business class and not first class in the future (although we'll be fine on Thai airways of course)? This will not stand! Last year, my aunt could only afford to repair her helicopter and not buy a new one. This will not stand! What about all those sex tourists? How are they gonna get their cheap sex if the ladies from Isaan have a way out via education? How will my hotel and restaurant in Pattaya survive this? This will not stand!

Elections? Pff. These uneducate (sic) people from the countryside can't even read the word. Why let them vote? How can THEIR vote be worth the same as MINE. ME! How is that possible?

It isn't. And thank god that the great General has come to Thailand's rescue.

This is basically the attitude of the old ruling elite.

I'm no fan of old square head, he's an egomaniac and Thailand is better off without him, but THIS is the age old alternative? A bunch of self serving and just as corrupt dinosaurs?

And their are foreigners on here sticking up for them like they are the saviors

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

The military should stick to their word and have a proper clean up. They are busy hunting down PTP members are putting them on trial yet no one from the dems has been as far as I know and some of their members have very questionable past dealings, especially the now monk...

If they were serious they'd clean out both parties to the point that they are virtually unrecognizable. The dems should ditch Apphasit because he'll never win an election and PTP should either disband or have someone competely dis connected from Thaksin so it's just not another proxy government of his.

Sadly all I'm seeing is one way traffic and another route to install the Apphasit lead dems shoe horned into power. If that happens then this whole mess will start all over again. Simmiarly if an obvious Thaksin proxy runs for PM. I don't see the army trying to break either status quo.

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

BTW "Pheu Thai members hunted down" ? You mean Ms. Yingluck, the one or two self-exiles and who else?

[heybruce]

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

This may surprise you, but there is no such thing as collective prosecution in thailand. It step by step. With former PM Somchai brough to the Supreme Court on charges of "abuse of power" there's even a better change we will get Abhisit/Suthep on same charges (rather than the somewhat strange "premeditated murder" charge in the Criminal Court). Even Ms. Yingluck can then get the same charge for her non-involvement in the anti-government attacks.

So, former PM Somchai will first get his chance to clear his name.

I'm not surprised at all that there is no such thing as collective prosecution in Thailand, but I'm puzzled why you bring the topic up.

There is such a thing as selective enforcement of the law in Thailand, which is implemented by selective prosecution. It's naive to maintain otherwise.

Your final sentence puzzles me. Is non-involvement in anti-government attacks illegal?

Edited February 10, 2015 by heybruce

[heybruce]

The military should stick to their word and have a proper clean up. They are busy hunting down PTP members are putting them on trial yet no one from the dems has been as far as I know and some of their members have very questionable past dealings, especially the now monk...

If they were serious they'd clean out both parties to the point that they are virtually unrecognizable. The dems should ditch Apphasit because he'll never win an election and PTP should either disband or have someone competely dis connected from Thaksin so it's just not another proxy government of his.

Sadly all I'm seeing is one way traffic and another route to install the Apphasit lead dems shoe horned into power. If that happens then this whole mess will start all over again. Simmiarly if an obvious Thaksin proxy runs for PM. I don't see the army trying to break either status quo.

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

BTW "Pheu Thai members hunted down" ? You mean Ms. Yingluck, the one or two self-exiles and who else?

Some people think elections are a good thing. Not the Democrats or military, but many others.

Among the hundreds of people called in for "attitude adjustment", which political side do you think dominates?

[rubl]

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

This may surprise you, but there is no such thing as collective prosecution in thailand. It step by step. With former PM Somchai brough to the Supreme Court on charges of "abuse of power" there's even a better change we will get Abhisit/Suthep on same charges (rather than the somewhat strange "premeditated murder" charge in the Criminal Court). Even Ms. Yingluck can then get the same charge for her non-involvement in the anti-government attacks.

So, former PM Somchai will first get his chance to clear his name.

I'm not surprised at all that there is no such thing as collective prosecution in Thailand, but I'm puzzled why you bring the topic up.

There is such a thing as selective enforcement of the law in Thailand, which is implemented by selective prosecution. It's naive to maintain otherwise.

Your final sentence puzzles me. Is non-involvement in anti-government attacks illegal?

Well the usual round-and-round going I see.

So, the NACC to give the OAG to charge former PM Somchai for "abuse of power". Actually the NACC might already have given the same to get Abhisit/Suthep charged, but they were told to butt out as the DSI wanted the OAG to charge the duo for "premeditated murder" in the Criminal Court. Late last year the court threw it out and suggested to the OAG to follow the correct procedure, do the charging at the Supreme Court first if they thought they'd have a case.

Now you may call that selective and you would be right. Rumour has it the DSI and Tarit were ordered.

As for my 'final' sentence, you probably are not in the mood for some mild sarcasm.

Cheers,

uncle rubl

Edited February 10, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

The military should stick to their word and have a proper clean up. They are busy hunting down PTP members are putting them on trial yet no one from the dems has been as far as I know and some of their members have very questionable past dealings, especially the now monk...

If they were serious they'd clean out both parties to the point that they are virtually unrecognizable. The dems should ditch Apphasit because he'll never win an election and PTP should either disband or have someone competely dis connected from Thaksin so it's just not another proxy government of his.

Sadly all I'm seeing is one way traffic and another route to install the Apphasit lead dems shoe horned into power. If that happens then this whole mess will start all over again. Simmiarly if an obvious Thaksin proxy runs for PM. I don't see the army trying to break either status quo.

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

BTW "Pheu Thai members hunted down" ? You mean Ms. Yingluck, the one or two self-exiles and who else?

Some people think elections are a good thing. Not the Democrats or military, but many others.

Among the hundreds of people called in for "attitude adjustment", which political side do you think dominates?

Some people have only one answer "let's have some elections". As if that would help make Thailand a real democracy. Even reforms are being studiously boycotted with argument not to believe in them.

Anyway, the attitude adjustment bit seems to annoy, some even self-exiled it would seem. No real martyrs or heroes found yet, apart from young Oaf of course

So, former PM Somchai gets a change to defend and justify himself. Obviously that's not to the liking of some here

Edited February 10, 2015 by rubl

[whybother]

like the ones who played a hand in the Murder of 90 Demonstrators in 2010 oh no they've been acquitted

Im puzzled at you attitude towards the Junta , do you have Thai kids here? would you like them growing up in a non democratic , Military run country with no freedom of speech and "Attitude adjustment" for those who don't tow the line ?

1) 90 demonstrators weren't killed. 10 or so soldiers and a couple of civilians were killed by protesters.

2) Abhisit and Suthep were acquitted of murder "as civilians". If you can tell me how they could be guilty of murder as civilians, that would be interesting. Of course, given this current decision, that should lead the way to them being charged for "abuse of power" in their official positions, which IIRC is already under way.

[jdinasia]

You need to be careful with sarcasm. Some people think you are serious and approve.

Now if only that sarcasm had something to do with the topic, that would have been nice. As it is it seems so disjunct that a story about the size of flying pigs in relation to diverting posts seems more interesting.

So, former PM Somchai to be charged with 'abuse of power' at the Supreme Court. Should make people happy. Next we can charge former PM and Dept. PM Abhisit / Suthep with the same. Of course to be fair Ms. Yingluck will be offered the same charge as well. Maybe bad manners, but this time it's not 'ladies first'.

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

This may surprise you, but there is no such thing as collective prosecution in thailand. It step by step. With former PM Somchai brough to the Supreme Court on charges of "abuse of power" there's even a better change we will get Abhisit/Suthep on same charges (rather than the somewhat strange "premeditated murder" charge in the Criminal Court). Even Ms. Yingluck can then get the same charge for her non-involvement in the anti-government attacks.

So, former PM Somchai will first get his chance to clear his name.

I'm not surprised at all that there is no such thing as collective prosecution in Thailand, but I'm puzzled why you bring the topic up.

There is such a thing as selective enforcement of the law in Thailand, which is implemented by selective prosecution. It's naive to maintain otherwise.

Your final sentence puzzles me. Is non-involvement in anti-government attacks illegal?

Yes there is selective enforcement. The RTP are responsible for law enforcement yet never acted against the redshirts in any meaningful way.

When the RTP attempted to act against the PAD, they screwed the pooch.

First up in the use of violent crackdowns against the Thai people is Somchai. I doubt he will be found guilty as it was a failure of the police.

[whybother]

How dare they try to take the airport back from the criminal yellows shirts who held thousands of foreign tourists hostage including children and infants. These mongrel caused great pain and anguish to many people from around the world. I had an appointment in Melbourne that I couldn't make and lost a few thousand dollars because of the lowlife yellows. Many tourists were extremely grateful that they were freed and able to get home after the government acted. The government were the good guys and the heros in the eyes of tourists and the yellows were seen as evil thugs.

These charges don't have anything to do with "taking back the airport". These charges are related to protests outside parliament well before the yellow shirts went to the airport.

[halloween]

OK, well then I misunderstood your intention. My apologies.

That said, I do not find the yellow shirts to be relatively less violent than the red shirts. There are differences however I would argue that the different levels of violence are due to the relative escalation of violence over time, and the political environment (eg: reaction of the sitting government).

I know logic is not your strong suit. If "I (ie you) do not find the yellow shirts to be relatively less violent than the red shirts" and "There are differences" which rules out equality, the only logical conclusion is that you think the yellows are MORE" violent, which flys in the face of all evidence.

However since "the different levels of violence are due to the relative escalation of violence over time," and since 2008 nearly all the violence has been red initiated, you are either very confused or a red apologist trying to baffle us with BS.

[smutcakes]

The only reason the yellow shirts are less violent is because the army/courts inevitably give them what they want before it goes that far.

[mikemac]

I have read most of the posts in this topic, although some I skimmed over because they were penned by well known red bs artists, and for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone who supports the Shins would complain about the actions of the current government.

Most of the complains are about stupid things that have no affect whatsoever on the majority of the population, both Thai and foreigners, and some of the stunts the current government have pulled are no worse than what the Shins did when in power.

At least the junta has stopped the redshirts killing people at will, and if that is the only good thing they ever do it has to be a good thing for the country.

Comparing the violence carried out by the reds to the anti-Shin people is just plain stupid, there is no comparison.

[rubl]

The only reason the yellow shirts are less violent is because the army/courts inevitably give them what they want before it goes that far.

That's why some red-shirts though it justified to target them you mean? A few grenades lobbed in DM airport building before it's too late?

Or are you suggesting the yellow shirts have just grievances and therefore it should be no surprise the courts rule against the others ?

Anyway former PM Somchai will get a chance to clear his name

[smutcakes]

The only reason the yellow shirts are less violent is because the army/courts inevitably give them what they want before it goes that far.

That's why some red-shirts though it justified to target them you mean? A few grenades lobbed in DM airport building before it's too late?

Or are you suggesting the yellow shirts have just grievances and therefore it should be no surprise the courts rule against the others ?

Anyway former PM Somchai will get a chance to clear his name

No i am simply saying that the courts or the army have stepped in on each occasion they have protested and given them exactly what they wanted.

If you are willing to blockade international airports, i don't believe it is much of a stretch to presume their next move could of been more violent had they not got their way, although i presume it was all carefully coordinated anyway between the named parties.

In any respect their is plenty of footage out there of armed persons in the yellow group as well, both sides have their armed crazies, just one side always gets what they want.

[heybruce]

The military should stick to their word and have a proper clean up. They are busy hunting down PTP members are putting them on trial yet no one from the dems has been as far as I know and some of their members have very questionable past dealings, especially the now monk...

If they were serious they'd clean out both parties to the point that they are virtually unrecognizable. The dems should ditch Apphasit because he'll never win an election and PTP should either disband or have someone competely dis connected from Thaksin so it's just not another proxy government of his.

Sadly all I'm seeing is one way traffic and another route to install the Apphasit lead dems shoe horned into power. If that happens then this whole mess will start all over again. Simmiarly if an obvious Thaksin proxy runs for PM. I don't see the army trying to break either status quo.

and in the mean time we do not seem to get any suggestion for a possible alternative. Apart from "let's have elections" that is.

BTW "Pheu Thai members hunted down" ? You mean Ms. Yingluck, the one or two self-exiles and who else?

Some people think elections are a good thing. Not the Democrats or military, but many others.

Among the hundreds of people called in for "attitude adjustment", which political side do you think dominates?

Some people have only one answer "let's have some elections". As if that would help make Thailand a real democracy. Even reforms are being studiously boycotted with argument not to believe in them.

Anyway, the attitude adjustment bit seems to annoy, some even self-exiled it would seem. No real martyrs or heroes found yet, apart from young Oaf of course

So, former PM Somchai gets a change to defend and justify himself. Obviously that's not to the liking of some here

Elections would be a step towards democracy, and a huge improvement over the current state of affairs.

Attitude adjustment an annoyance? You regard being held without charge and incommunicado an annoyance? How about:

"Hundreds of people have been summoned and forced to sign documents that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2

Would you dismiss that as a minor annoyance if it happened to you?

Also, what do you mean by "being studiously boycotted"? Didn't you post:

"2014-11-17

"BANGKOK, 17 November 2014 (NNT) - All political parties have accepted the invitation to discuss the drafting of the new charter and its content, says the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC)."" http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/798513-reformers-hail-chance-to-check-charter-draft/?p=9044507

Whether you think it is or isn't being boycotted (or think both, it seems), these "reforms" clearly designed to weaken the power of elected officials, are proceeding. But that isn't part of this topic.

Edited February 10, 2015 by heybruce

[heybruce]

Right, let's get on topic. Did you read the NYT article mentioned earlier? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=2 Much of it is relevant to the topic, but on the subject of bringing Abhisit and others to justice it has:

There is dissension even within the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which since the coup has become a sort of prosecutor in chief.

Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge, says political divisions have infected the courts to the point of a “pandemic in the judiciary.”

“The distortion of the law is worse than a gun pointed at you,” she said in an interview. “The distortion of the law affects everyone in the nation. Every citizen relies on the law.”

Ms. Somlak says she was disturbed by the decision of a criminal court last year to drop murder charges against a former prime minister backed by the establishment, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his deputy. Mr. Abhisit was charged with authorizing the military to use weapons of war against protesters in 2010. More than 90 people were killed during the violence.

“I think this is outrageous,” she said. “The court suddenly dropped the case — they didn’t even investigate.”

Ms. Somlak said she also opposed the impeachment of Ms. Yingluck, the former prime minister and sister of Mr. Thaksin. The National Legislative Assembly did not have the authority to impeach her, she said. The junta has also not fully explained how a person who is no longer in power can be impeached.

Apparently it's not just a few TV posters who think prosecutions are one-sided.

This may surprise you, but there is no such thing as collective prosecution in thailand. It step by step. With former PM Somchai brough to the Supreme Court on charges of "abuse of power" there's even a better change we will get Abhisit/Suthep on same charges (rather than the somewhat strange "premeditated murder" charge in the Criminal Court). Even Ms. Yingluck can then get the same charge for her non-involvement in the anti-government attacks.

So, former PM Somchai will first get his chance to clear his name.

I'm not surprised at all that there is no such thing as collective prosecution in Thailand, but I'm puzzled why you bring the topic up.

There is such a thing as selective enforcement of the law in Thailand, which is implemented by selective prosecution. It's naive to maintain otherwise.

Your final sentence puzzles me. Is non-involvement in anti-government attacks illegal?

Well the usual round-and-round going I see.

So, the NACC to give the OAG to charge former PM Somchai for "abuse of power". Actually the NACC might already have given the same to get Abhisit/Suthep charged, but they were told to butt out as the DSI wanted the OAG to charge the duo for "premeditated murder" in the Criminal Court. Late last year the court threw it out and suggested to the OAG to follow the correct procedure, do the charging at the Supreme Court first if they thought they'd have a case.

Now you may call that selective and you would be right. Rumour has it the DSI and Tarit were ordered.

As for my 'final' sentence, you probably are not in the mood for some mild sarcasm.

Cheers,

uncle rubl

Actually it was more of a back and forth, until you inserted your strange "might have already" speculation.

Did you miss the part about the person who's judgment on law you are challenging: "Somlak Judkrabuanphol, an adviser at the commission who is also a law professor and a former Supreme Court judge..."

[brucec64]

like the ones who played a hand in the Murder of 90 Demonstrators in 2010 oh no they've been acquitted

Im puzzled at you attitude towards the Junta , do you have Thai kids here? would you like them growing up in a non democratic , Military run country with no freedom of speech and "Attitude adjustment" for those who don't tow the line ?

1) 90 demonstrators weren't killed. 10 or so soldiers and a couple of civilians were killed by protesters.

2) Abhisit and Suthep were acquitted of murder "as civilians". If you can tell me how they could be guilty of murder as civilians, that would be interesting. Of course, given this current decision, that should lead the way to them being charged for "abuse of power" in their official positions, which IIRC is already under way.

I guess if Yingluck can be impeached as PM while a civilian, then Abhisit can be found guilty as a civilian while PM. The illogic should work in both directions, or is there bias going on?