Buying an old Toyota Soluna; advice?

[ClareQuilty]

I've put down a 5,000 baht deposit on a older 5-spd Toyota Soluna, sale price 65,000 baht, not sure the year but it is the first generation I suppose. The car runs and drives great and is in very good condition, and I had it checked out by a mechanic. He said its 'fine'. The mileage reads 132,000 kilometers, but that's a trifle unbelievable given the age. As the mechanic said 'who knows about kilometers in Thailand, everyone fiddle that here'.

Anyway, he also said there were no obvious signs of being in an accident or flood that he could see, and the car drives straight and true down the road. The only minor peccadillo I've noticed in extensive test driving was that the idle, which 90% of the time is correctly low (say 300 rpm or so), is sometimes around 900-1000 rpm for a bit. I couldn't tell if this made sense for some reason, or was just something a bit aberrant in the engine control electronics. The engine is so smooth its hardly noticeable.

Any opinions? About this idle issue (could it be a sign of anything?) or about the model and price in general. Or, any advice about things to look for in evaluating the car before I finally commit to the purchase. The seller is a sort of colleague I've seen every day for years, so there is some small level of trustworthiness there (its not a tent-dealer or anything like that).

[lostinisaan]

Make a compression test. Sad is that most mechanics here haven't seen such a tester before.

You can read a lot when checking your compression, regarding piston rings, valves, etc.....

Please be aware that it's very easy to make a practically dead engine to a smooth running one, but not for long.

Let's say an engine is done and noise comes from everywhere.

You can fill in some very thick oil that makes the engine look good. But not for long.

Get a compression check. I've got a tester and quite a few mechanics who saw it didn't know what it is.

Your idle speed doesn't seem to be a big problem. It could be many things, a leaking under pressure tube, or similar.

Such an engine usually idles about 700 to 850 RPM, when air switches on around 100- 150 RPM more .

Sad that most mechanics don't know much about their job. Similar to the education system.

Forgive them, because they don't know what they do. If the engine, gear box, brakes, etc are okay, buy it. I'd see a good garage and get it checked.

And make sure that they really have the documents for it.And you'd only get a shitty plastic scooter for that money.

And the mileage is always "tuned." Good luck with your "new car."

Edited February 8, 2015 by lostinisaan

[billphillips]

As stated before ... Normal idle speed is around 750 rpm. It's normally higher when you first come to a halt after a hard or long run.

Considering the price, I would think that it's ok to disregard all and every problem until the thing stops completely. In that case .. Sell it and get most of your money back.

[transam]

The idle thing could be many things. I don't know the set up on that ride but probably something simple. Might have an idle thingy that controls air flow at idle. My old Volvo had similar probs and it was that.

[lostinisaan]

The idle thing could be many things. I don't know the set up on that ride but probably something simple. Might have an idle thingy that controls air flow at idle. My old Volvo had similar probs and it was that.

These cars use a lot of valves that are under pressure controlled. A leaking tube could cause that. Not really something a Thai mechanic would find easily.

Try carburetor cleaner spray and give a small dose at the hoses, where they're attached. If the idle speed goes higher, you've already found the problem.

Carburetor fluid is highly flammable and therefore the best tool to check such problems. Pretty much unknown in Thailand.

[xylophone]

About 4 yrs ago I looked at buying a 10 yr old Soluna and it was immaculate and drove like a dream and only had 52,000 km on the clock.

A good inspection was done and mileage verified and I was keen, but the price was high and they wouldn't negotiate........so there are good older Solunas out there!!

Good luck with it.

[WarpSpeed]

^ Curious to know, how did they verify the mileage?

Look at the wear on the brake peddle to better determine the Km's, if it's well worn, you can assume the mileage may not be accurate, if it is moderately worn maybe correct, if hardly worn might have changed the rubber and thus the mileage is likely way off. Of course these are general parameters. Idle should be around 900 rpm, if it goes up and down it likely has a vacuum leak somewhere? 300 rpm is way too low, verge of stalling. A car that age has plenty of possibilities of a vacuum leak as the hoses and gaskets get older, dry out and crack. What year? If you don't know if it's carbureted or FI maybe it can be researched or someone here knows? Lp or any other surprises we don't know about? The compression can be checked but probably not part of the problem in this case. What should be done is a vacuum line test by putting pressure on the system with the car off and checking for air leaking sounds or can also be done with the car running and the Thai's like to use a small piece of hose to check all the joints etc. by listening into the hose while moving it from joint to joint to listen for sucking noises, it is actually an effective test, it isolates the noise from the engine sounds quite well.

As mentioned sometimes spraying something like WD40 or similar around some suspect areas may cause an increase or decrease in the idle speed and give some indication of the location of an air leak. Look primarily around the areas where the most heat is likely to effect them like where they go into the Carb or FI on the back of the engine where it gets the hottest.

Edited February 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[technologybytes]

Actually the way an engine idles says a lot about the condition. If it goes between 2 different rpm during idle it's probable that the air conditioning idle-up is not working, this compensates for the extra load of the compressor to maintain a steady idle.

Incorrect KM reading is an issue when a car is in the hands of dealers, private owners almost never bother to give cars a haircut in the way that dealers do,

When buying older cars I like to see them idle with the air con on full in the midday sun for at least 20 mins after being fully warmed up, then check that the car is not overheating. If it passes that test with no fluid leaks and the oil and water are clean and the correct colour then the chances are that it's OK.

[Mousehound]

As stated - idle about 700-750rpm. If it can get to the top of Doi Suthep or somewhere similar without overheating or loosing fluid then it is probably a fair bet. Mileage doesn't mean a lot. I've had vehicles with 150k that weren't as good as those with 300k on the clock. Poor servicing (or none) and short trips are what kills an engine. An "honest" car that has been really well maintained is what you should look for. (If it looks too good to be true then beware). After all, you are only paying a small amount of monies and if you get a good year or so out of it then anything more is a bonus.

[stevenl]

For that price and that apparent condition, buy it. There will always be some things, but as long as it runs, keep it.

[DaiHard]

They are great cars; very reliable and good gas mileage. I have LPG on mine and it costs about 1 bt/km on the expressway. I'd buy it.

[NickJ]

Compression check is a super must I second that.

[weegee]

The idle thing could be many things. I don't know the set up on that ride but probably something simple. Might have an idle thingy that controls air flow at idle. My old Volvo had similar probs and it was that.

You drove a VOLVO????....oh my god man, I didnt know. Did you have a hat in the middle of the rear windscreen as well.....

[Tel T]

The idle speed problem may be related to a vacuum leak and probally not the idle speed motor because if it was the ISM

the engine would stall when the revs drop drown towards the idle speed and expect it to be approx. 700/800 rpm

for a manual and slightly higher for an automatic but not above 1,000 rpm.

Bring the engine revs up to about 2,000 and hold it there for a few minutes and listen for usual noises. If you hear heavy

metal type noises well then the big end bearings are kaput, an indication major internal engine oil circulation problems.

You did not mention if the car was manual or automatic but on a road test , try to keep the car in a gear for longer than

normal and watch your rear view mirror for smoke. Different colour smoke indicated different problems. If the smoke is

blue it means burning oil which will also be a major internal engine problem.

Best wishes with your purchase

[lostinisaan]

The idle speed problem may be related to a vacuum leak and probally not the idle speed motor because if it was the ISM

the engine would stall when the revs drop drown towards the idle speed and expect it to be approx. 700/800 rpm

for a manual and slightly higher for an automatic but not above 1,000 rpm.

Bring the engine revs up to about 2,000 and hold it there for a few minutes and listen for usual noises. If you hear heavy

metal type noises well then the big end bearings are kaput, an indication major internal engine oil circulation problems.

You did not mention if the car was manual or automatic but on a road test , try to keep the car in a gear for longer than

normal and watch your rear view mirror for smoke. Different colour smoke indicated different problems. If the smoke is

blue it means burning oil which will also be a major internal engine problem.

Best wishes with your purchase

If the smoke is white, forget about buying it. Then it's burning water, caused by a overheated engine, cylinder head gasket, plus eventually more problems.

But I'd definitely let it check by someone who knows cars. Yes, it's not much money, but why should anybody buy a headache?

BTW, a compression test shows a lot about the engine.

[bazza40]

Agree 100% on a compression test.

Check fluids - oil, brake fluid and radiator coolant should be clean. Dirty fluids spell problems.

A mechanic should check if any of the shock absorbers are weeping. Brakes and steering are vital.

Do all the electrics work? Check brake lights, windscreen wipers, turn indicators and headlights.

Having said that, Toyotas do have a good reputation for reliability. The other plus is because there are so many of them in Thailand, just about every town has a mechanic who knows how to fix them.

Be prepared to spend 10k to 20K baht on getting everything in good condition.

[WarpSpeed]

Specific clean fluids sometimes covers a problem too I.E. oil is always suspect to me, I want to see it a bit worn, brake/clutch if it is a manual, not so much, want that clean which is very rare in Thailand. With all of the advice given so far, remember you're not buying a new car so be reasonable and prepared to spend some money on maintenance as long as it's mostly mechanically sound and a good foundation to begin with. Things like shocks, suspension bushings, CV joints, tie rod ends and the like are a given on an older car IMO and wouldn't keep me from buying it or expect the seller to make much of a discount on price either, those should be mostly factored into the asking price already. BTW what is the selling price if you don't mind my asking?

Lack of smoke is the biggest indicator of a good car, even if it has low compression it may be fine for quite some time but may also smoke if oil is bypassing the rings which is in itself a low compression indicator but more to the extreme. Yes, white or worse yet, bluish white smoke, run! Don't walk away. There is no real way to hide a smoking problem. BTW there has been some disagreement on RPM's and that question is not easily answered as there are a number of factors that control it, I.E. as some have said an automatic which in that case will drop down in idle once engaged in gear with the brake depressed or with the a/c etc. between 750 and 900 is proper range but stable in any case without large fluctuations while running.

Edited February 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[ClareQuilty]

Thanks guys for all the advice. To clarify, as I said in the original post, the car is a 5-speed manual. Also, the car doesn't produce any smoke, either dark or white. The mechanic and I did check the oil - it was full, very clean, and the consistency of the oil was quite normal.

I also checked the pedals as suggested, and they look, while not pristine, barely worn. The kilometers read 132,000, which is about 85,000 miles - one would expect slight wear I guess, not heavy wear. I still don't believe in mileage in Thailand, for the most part, but the seller never 'hyped' the car, that is never made any claims about the mileage or anything else, and in fact only mentioned 'oh yeah, my brother hardly ever drove this car' after I'd already put down a deposit. (The seller is selling the car for his brother)

All in all I'm becoming more confident about the car's mechanical condition now, the only thing which remains is whether the title and so forth is in good order, but I feel I've safeguarded myself on that front by having the car professionally financed - thus, we will transfer ownership at the government office, with the finance man present. So, it will be in his interest to ensure that the paperwork is legitimate and correct.

[WarpSpeed]

Good to hear Clare, good luck with it, I bet it'll be nice to get out of your older Corolla and have something newer to drive.

[aussiebebe]

My first car in Thailand was a second-hand 2001 Toyota Soluna, it was a great car. Sadly, it was stolen and I had to wait six months for the insurance to pay out. As the OP is buying from a long-term colleague, there's probably no need to do what I'm about to suggest but there's a garage on Srinakarin called 'Test Car' which will give you a full test. As the test would be around 5k and the car is only 65k it's likely not worth it. I was buying in 2008 and paid 350k to put things in perspective. 65k seems like a good price.