Serious And Disturbing Email

[meemiathai]

Staying calm is the most important thing. You will get more and more paranoid if you start thinking too much.

Yours posts suggested you have very sensitive feelings, therefore it won't be easy for your wife to act being in love for 5 yrs without you noticing anything. Only you can tell.

Forgive me for being nosey. How much time have you both spend together during this 5 yrs?

Why didn't she go together with you to the US? Do you two have a child?

If it was me in this situation, it won't be bothering me a single bit. But I understand everyone is in a different situation.

Have you in any case exposed your email address and your information to any open forums like this one? Have you ever used any internet shops and left without logging out your email accounts?

I am inclined to believe your wife is innocent. But only you can tell.

Remember, stay calm. Have a good rest and you might realize how ridiculous this email was when you wake up! Perhaps?

[Thaddeus]

That's another point I've considered, Kurgen. This sender is unknown to me. Yet how did they obtain my address? Two possibilities occur to me - 1) it is someone close to us who has access to our condo and quite possibly my computer, and 2) it was discreetly obtained by someone removed from us from a member of our household.

They are not the only options..... for example, I don't know Kurgen, never met the chap.... but I've got a fairly good idea where I could get his email address, and telephone number if I really wanted it.

There is a slim chance that someone else out there has a grudge.

[Tippaporn]

Her father is down from Loei and has been staying in our condo for over one month.

Is her father a policeman or someone with a uniform? Perhaps someone sees him and is making assumptions.

I realize the idea of a private investigator goes against your grain but it may be the best solution for either your protection or hers (if someone has ill intentions against her).

No, her father is not related to the Thai police at all. You are probably right in that a private investigator may be the only way for me to find out.

[Maestro]

Have you traced the ip address to find out if the emails were even sent from a Thai computer?

I think this is the first thing you should do. If you don’t know how to find the sender’s IP number in the email header and how to trace the server through which it was sent, say what email program you are using to read your mail and people will help you here.

--------------

Maestro

[Tippaporn]

Two options...

Tell her about the e-mail. Ask your wife who would ever send a e-mail like this and why did they?

Second option...

Forget about it. But you can't, can you?

so you are left with the first option

Tell her about the e-mail. Ask your wife who would ever send a e-mail like this and why did they?

Good luck, Tippaporn.

Thanks, Sunbelt. You're right, I can't forget about it. After you're with a woman for neigh on 5 years your life and future dreams revolve around her. The worst case scenario would mean that all of that would crumble to dust. It's not easy.

[thaigene2]

...after 8 months away you should realise that there is a possibility that these things do happen.

dont torture yourself with visions of police set ups and double jeopardy situations , keep a clear mind and think all your actions through before doing anything.

I agree with both of these comments. Don't think you ever said whether these long periods of time away (at one stretch) were common? You are undoubtedly aware that many attractive young Thai women who like to go out with farang men often have more than one relationship - with farangs and Thais. Some also have Thai husbands.

But as is mentioned above, that's probably the worst case scenario you're looking at (as bad as that may be). Don't worry about some huge sting operation - your tortured mind is getting the best of you..Think it through and do a 'surprise visit' if that eases your mind. Good luck - hope it's just a malcious prank.

[Tippaporn]

very sorry to see you in this situation Tip.

The only thing I can suggest, is for you to find out as much info as you can, before you do anything.

Absolutely agree, Chuch. And thanks.

[GuestHouse]

What I have to say now is from my own personal experience of a poison pen letter, it may not be a fully useful guide to what you must do, but I hope it gives you a few things to think about.

I’ll give you some background and then you can understand what I have to say about your situation and why.

--

I received a telephone call from an ex (farang) who called to tell me she was sending me a letter that she had received in the post and that she thought I needed to know about.

She had spent time with me in Thailand and had met all my colleges and friends in Thailand. We had split up after her return home but remained on very good terms, I had not discussed our break-up with anyone, being personal business I had kept it to myself, and those of you who work in expat circles in Thailand understand why it is often best to keep private life private.

When the letter arrived, it was a photcopy of a photograph of me with the woman who I have since married, on the back was written ‘What is (Guesthouse) up to in Thailand while you are away?’.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and came to some conclusions that I think you must consider yourself.

Firstly. Why would anyone write such a letter? Clearly not for my good, not for my ex partner’s good – They are doing so to cause a problem.

Note here that I have not considered who wrote the letter, but why. The who comes out when you ask the next question

Qui Bono? – Who benefits from such an action

Look at your letter again and ask yourself what information does it contain and who has that information? What information does it not contain?

In my case the information it contained was names and addresses, a knowledge that I had a relationship with someone back home, but not the knowledge that this was ended.

In your email, they know:

Your name

Your email address

Your wife’s name

You have a pick-up

You have a condo

You are overseas

You have a son

You are sending your wife money

How current is that information? - Ask yourself, who has that information. In my case it was a college who hoped to have me demobilized so he could take my job – (Life of the expat in a multinational) - He was dismissed!

In your case I would look for someone who is seeking to attack your wife, not you – They are certainly not trying to help you out.

As a guide I would expect the sender to be female, since poison pen letters/emails are almost exclusively by women. I agree that the sender is Thai.

Look for someone who has a soft-spot for you and who perhaps hopes to ruin a good thing she is not getting

OR

Look for someone who is a close ‘friend’ of your wife and perhaps harbors jealousy over your wife’s good fortune. (That can be a very close friend)

OR

Look for someone that either you or your wife have had an argument with (look right back to 2001, because Thais will and do hold grudges that long).

Ask yourself and your wife, is there anyone who has access to your wife’s computer, address book etc who fits those molds.

Believe me, having managed Thais and foreigners in Thailand I have seen very many poison pen letters (a shocking number) - jealousy, personal gain or anger over a snub is at the bottom of all them.

Oh and talk to your wife about this as soon as you have your head straight about it.

Best of luck with this.

[Maestro]

Tippaporn, my first thought after reading your original post was that the mails were sent by a woman who is envious of your wife’s good fortune and hopes to spoil your blissful marriage with unfounded anonymous accusations.

--------------

Maestro

Edit: I wrote my two lines before seeing the post of GuestHouse, but I see he is thinking along the same lines.

Edited August 22, 2006 by maestro

[Lacoste]

Hi tippaporn, a good start, if you have a trusted Farang friend close to your condo. Arrange for them to go around to your place to use your PC. You could arrange this with your wife and just come up with some excuse about needing some info from a file.

This friend could then access the PC history and find out if indeed the computer was being used and what for at that particular time when the e-mail was sent.

This is a start and will give you more of an idea of who or who may not be behind this.

Just a thought, Good luck and i hope it is not for real, however if it is for real, then you MUST know.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry I'm going to extend the list.

If you are having business sucess in Thailand then you must (I'm afraid) extend the suspect list to farang friends who know of your success.

There are some twisted b@stards out there.

[chippie]

An easy way to track emails, is with a program called read notify. This program tells you when the mail was opened how may times, who it was forwarded to and where it is being read and for how long.

I would write to the emailer using read notify and then you will at least see if someone is reading the mails that you send and where they are. I would also suggest tracking the ip address, if you know te address already, then put it into his program and it will tell you where it is

According to Ken Hollis and the alt.spam FAQ:

You cannot generally tell by a e-mail header which specific computer the e-mail came from. Just about every time you dial into your ISP (Internet Service Provider) you are assigned a different IP address. If someone sends you an e-mail and they log out, the next time they log in their IP address will most likely be different. If the computer has a permanently assigned IP address *and* you have the cooperation of whomever owns that block of IP addresses you *might* be able to get information on who might have sent the e-mail.

About the only way to tell *exactly* which e-mail account the e-mail was sent from is to get the ISP (Internet Service Provider) to tell you. Usually the ISP will require you to get the local police involved (a warrant of some type) to force the ISP to give you that information. Even given that you know the account the e-mail originated from, a forger can find out that person's account / password and log in as them, they can gain access to that computer while the person who owns that computer is away from the computer or they could install a back door program that allows them to control that person's computer remotely. If this were to happen then the forger could send the e-mail and nobody would know who *specifically* sent the e-mail.

I hope it all works out mate, and dont jump in too early with both feet, test the water first, if theres anything i can do, i am just a pm away

Edited August 22, 2006 by chippie

[Tippaporn]

come home and find out once and for all.

tell her wahtever you want is the reason, but why not just find out?

if it is a hoax, so much the better, if not.... well up to you.

Timing would be a problem, t.s. I could leave in two weeks but considering all that I have going on here in the States it would make for a premature departure. Simply showing up at the doorstep may not reveal anything amiss at all. In which case if it were the worst case scenario it would simply move underground.

Thanks

[Mobi]

Tippaporn,

This sort of thing has happened to me several times over so I know how you feel.

You should not assume the worst until you know one way or another for sure.

IMO you should not tell her about the emails yet, and you should avoid arousing her suspicions that something is wrong.

It's either a private dick job, or as someone suggests, isn't there a mate you can confide in that lives nearby and can check for you.

You must find out for sure, before you get back, and if she suspects anything you may never know, as they are masters at covering their tracks.

One thing - if you do uncover evidence that the emails are true - don't go into denial.

Good luck mate.

[bazmlb]

so sorry to hear stuff like this hope all ends up well

If your email is outlook then right click the email then options and you should get a box with info like this, in red is the ip address, do the same with an email you have from your wife/the condos pc and see if ip address is similar or from same provider

use http://samspade.org to check out the IP, simply pit it in the box next to do stuff and click

Return-path: <[email protected]>

Envelope-to: baz

Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:00:31 -0400

Received: from [203.174.84.82] (helo=thaivisa.com)

in yahoo mail click show all headers under options/general options, should be similar in other email programs. Let me know by PM what email u use if cant find it

Messages

Headers: Show brief headers on incoming messages (recommended)

x Show all headers on incoming messages

Hope it all works out

[HowardJohnson]

GuestHouse post sets it out logically. This is how you will work it out.

Best of luck.

[daleyboy]

An easy way to track emails, is with a program called read notify. This program tells you when the mail was opened how may times, who it was forwarded to and where it is being read and for how long.

I would write to the emailer using read notify and then you will at least see if someone is reading the mails that you send and where they are. I would also suggest tracking the ip address, if you know te address already, then put it into his program and it will tell you where it is

According to Ken Hollis and the alt.spam FAQ:

You cannot generally tell by a e-mail header which specific computer the e-mail came from. Just about every time you dial into your ISP (Internet Service Provider) you are assigned a different IP address. If someone sends you an e-mail and they log out, the next time they log in their IP address will most likely be different. If the computer has a permanently assigned IP address *and* you have the cooperation of whomever owns that block of IP addresses you *might* be able to get information on who might have sent the e-mail.

About the only way to tell *exactly* which e-mail account the e-mail was sent from is to get the ISP (Internet Service Provider) to tell you. Usually the ISP will require you to get the local police involved (a warrant of some type) to force the ISP to give you that information. Even given that you know the account the e-mail originated from, a forger can find out that person's account / password and log in as them, they can gain access to that computer while the person who owns that computer is away from the computer or they could install a back door program that allows them to control that person's computer remotely. If this were to happen then the forger could send the e-mail and nobody would know who *specifically* sent the e-mail.

I hope it all works out mate, and dont jump in too early with both feet, test the water first, if theres anything i can do, i am just a pm away

That sll interesting reading chippie, but i think the person who sent these mails, isnt setting up backdoor programs. It is one spiteful person who knows some details.

Read notify like i said before, will tell y the city and country of origin, it will tell you when it was opened and for how long, as well as a whole host of other tings. So at least tip would know if the person who sent the original mail was actually reading any mails he sends in return, he will also know if the mails are even coming from thailand

[Tippaporn]

Have you traced the ip address to find out if the emails were even sent from a Thai computer?

Through the generosity of another TV member this is being done. It would most definitely originate in Thailand since I have no other relations here in the States with the people and family I'm associated with in Thailand.

[Maestro]

This friend could then access the PC history and find out if indeed the computer was being used and what for at that particular time when the e-mail was sent.

You are assuming that the anonymous emails were sent from Tippaporn’s computer. More than a bit far-fetched, I should think.

--------------

Maestro

[jasonc]

I hope her name isn't Wan nor Por.

I personally know a girl named Wan who has a Thai police husband and a farang husband, German I think. I also know a girl named Por who's a real cutie and she has both a Thai and American husband. I don't see these girls often, friends of my GF's sister and I think they all were beer girls together in BKK.

Maybe I'm an arse but I'd get an investigator for piece of mind. Forget the emotional thoughts of breaking trust and be purely logical. She'll forgive you after reading all the horror stories on the internet. I'm not cynical, I think most Thai's can be trusted but with you gone so long I'd be safe.

[Lacoste]

This friend could then access the PC history and find out if indeed the computer was being used and what for at that particular time when the e-mail was sent.

You are assuming that the anonymous emails were sent from Tippaporn’s computer. More than a bit far-fetched, I should think.

--------------

Maestro

If you read Tippaporns posts you will find that, Tippaporn has a strong feeling they were sent from his computer and his condo.

Re-read the posts.

[Johpa]

Tippaporn, my first thought after reading your original post was that the mails were sent by a woman who is envious of your wife’s good fortune and hopes to spoil your blissful marriage with unfounded anonymous accusations.

--------------

Maestro

Considering that the woman has acted responsibly up to this point with the finances, I too would suspect another jealous Thai woman who is pissed off at your wife for lord knows what childish reason, perhaps even a relative who might even have brief access to your home computer. For some strange reason, many Thais like to bring all members of the extended family down to the lowest common denominator.

[Tippaporn]

What I have to say now is from my own personal experience of a poison pen letter, it may not be a fully useful guide to what you must do, but I hope it gives you a few things to think about.

I’ll give you some background and then you can understand what I have to say about your situation and why.

--

I received a telephone call from an ex (farang) who called to tell me she was sending me a letter that she had received in the post and that she thought I needed to know about.

She had spent time with me in Thailand and had met all my colleges and friends in Thailand. We had split up after her return home but remained on very good terms, I had not discussed our break-up with anyone, being personal business I had kept it to myself, and those of you who work in expat circles in Thailand understand why it is often best to keep private life private.

When the letter arrived, it was a photcopy of a photograph of me with the woman who I have since married, on the back was written ‘What is (Guesthouse) up to in Thailand while you are away?’.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and came to some conclusions that I think you must consider yourself.

Firstly. Why would anyone write such a letter? Clearly not for my good, not for my ex partner’s good – They are doing so to cause a problem.

Note here that I have not considered who wrote the letter, but why. The who comes out when you ask the next question

Qui Bono? – Who benefits from such an action

Look at your letter again and ask yourself what information does it contain and who has that information? What information does it not contain?

In my case the information it contained was names and addresses, a knowledge that I had a relationship with someone back home, but not the knowledge that this was ended.

In your email, they know:

Your name

Your email address

Your wife’s name

You have a pick-up

You have a condo

You are overseas

You have a son

You are sending your wife money

How current is that information? - Ask yourself, who has that information. In my case it was a college who hoped to have me demobilized so he could take my job – (Life of the expat in a multinational) - He was dismissed!

In your case I would look for someone who is seeking to attack your wife, not you – They are certainly not trying to help you out.

As a guide I would expect the sender to be female, since poison pen letters/emails are almost exclusively by women. I agree that the sender is Thai.

Look for someone who has a soft-spot for you and who perhaps hopes to ruin a good thing she is not getting

OR

Look for someone who is a close ‘friend’ of your wife and perhaps harbors jealousy over your wife’s good fortune. (That can be a very close friend)

OR

Look for someone that either you or your wife have had an argument with (look right back to 2001, because Thais will and do hold grudges that long).

Ask yourself and your wife, is there anyone who has access to your wife’s computer, address book etc who fits those molds.

Believe me, having managed Thais and foreigners in Thailand I have seen very many poison pen letters (a shocking number) - jealousy, personal gain or anger over a snub is at the bottom of all them.

Oh and talk to your wife about this as soon as you have your head straight about it.

Best of luck with this.

I appreciate your level-headed advice, GH, and it's typical of you. I've considered the poison pen angle and that is what I suspect. Your post is rather comforting as it corrobrates my suspicions. But I cannot honestly think of who might wish to perpetrate this, nor can I conceive of what they may have to gain. Certainly nothing for themselves if they were to cause a break up. I would necessarily disassociate myself from most of our current relations. What it left then is jealousy. I agree that the email was written by a female.

As long as the potential exists for me to get cleaned out of everything I have in Thailand I will postpone a direct and blunt accounting of the situation to my wife. Considering the distance it would be easy for her to smooth over my concerns if she was involved with someone else.

[lopburi3]

Do you have a family and child elsewhere that the email sender is talking about that you should save your money to support? If so how do they know this. Does she have a maid by any chance? As you say it does sound like another Thai and female. Was the $13,000 loss something you checked out? It may mean nothing even if it was not what was said as very often such a loss can be from gambling and covered up with other stories; but I suspect it is on your mind.

I did not read it as the other was living in the condo - only that she sometimes had him in your pickup and maybe came to condo, but even that was not clear. Most Thai have had a husband when young (don't know her age now of if you ever discussed prior relationships) and a third party could well say she has a Thai husband when they have been apart for ages. Sorry can not provide any solid advise but I would be very leery using a third party unless you are very certain you can trust them.

[GuestHouse]

One other point.

The email mentions your car being wrecked, this puts a time frame on the person who sent the email. If that wreck is very recent then the person has very recent contact and information.

I think you need to open your mind to who might want to do this and why – The issue is not logic, but emotion.

You need to use logic and method to sort the mess out, but don’t look for a truly logical reason why the email was sent.

If you really believe the email is coming from your computer then can you get a trusted friend to access your computer, get them to install a key logger for you.

You might tackle it this way.

Tell your wife you have a virus on your machine at home and it might have come from her machine in Thailand, ask her who has been using it (in a manner such as to suggest you are trying to be helpful). Then, if you have someone who can do this for you, suggest you get your friend to come around and sort the virus out (install the logger).

My guess is, if someone else has been using your computer and your wife tells you the names, then that is where you need to concentrate your thoughts. If its not obvious go for the key logger.

[Maestro]

If you read Tippaporns posts you will find that, Tippaporn has a strong feeling they were sent from his computer and his condo.

Lacoste, you’re right (I had skipped a few posts without noticing it).

Tippaporn, our email addresses are not as secret as we like to think.

--------------

Maestro

[GuestHouse]

You might add that the virus crashed your computer and wiped out all your email so you haven't received any emails (Since the last one you discussed with your wife).

if the sender is nearby or overhear/get to hear this, they might then asume that you did not get the poison email - A bit of luck they might send it again.

Either way they will not know you are on to them.

Edited August 22, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Tippaporn]

Have you tried replying to the emails?

As I know that the majority of our friends do not own a computer I suspect it was sent from our condo by someone staying there.

Ah, ah you do suspect it is true.

Now why would someone living in your condo want to kill the milch cow?

Your being wound up bro and its working.

Yes, it is. Not a difficult thing to do when you love someone utterly and trust them implicitly. Love can hurt like nothing else can.

The question of who is at the heart of this. I wish I could begin to supect or know the reasons why. I can only surmise at this point. Guessing not put my mind at ease, though.

[LoveDaBlues]

I have a feeling it is one of your wife's close female "friends" who is looking forward to the day when she can console you.........

Any of your wife's friends ever get overly 'playful' with you?

[Tippaporn]

Staying calm is the most important thing. You will get more and more paranoid if you start thinking too much.

Thanks, meemiathai, and I agree.

Yours posts suggested you have very sensitive feelings, therefore it won't be easy for your wife to act being in love for 5 yrs without you noticing anything. Only you can tell.

I'm willing to bet my life that this is a poison pen email. Then again, love can be so blind, chai mai? I trust her and God help that I am not a fool.

Forgive me for being nosey. How much time have you both spend together during this 5 yrs?

Why didn't she go together with you to the US? Do you two have a child?

You're not being nosey. Other than my absence the past year we have been together continuously. She has no interest in traveling outside of Thailand. She's extremely shy, hates cold weather, is embarassed over her limited English, and is not at all fond of western cusine. She has a single child from a previous relationship (she's never been mofficially married).

If it was me in this situation, it won't be bothering me a single bit. But I understand everyone is in a different situation.

I wish I could say the same. As it is, my future plans revolve around our relationship. It's not easy to consider that all would be pissed away and I would be faced with the prospect of rebuilding myself another life.

Have you in any case exposed your email address and your information to any open forums like this one? Have you ever used any internet shops and left without logging out your email accounts?

No, on both counts.

I am inclined to believe your wife is innocent. But only you can tell.

Thanks for your support. I, too, believe she's true blue.

Remember, stay calm. Have a good rest and you might realize how ridiculous this email was when you wake up! Perhaps?

I've already had a night's sleep. Thanks so much.