Noob questions about riding manual

[ll2]

you cover you brakes just before the braking of course.

and even f you do trail braking, you cover your brakes just before you do it.

because you know where to brake or trail brake or wheelie or not whatsoever as you lap on that track a hundred times.

what we are saying is, a track is a controlled environment with a very very less possibility of something unexpected.

i am not here to criticize if one is covering his/her brakes on a track. but i just dont cover them. it is totally fine if that person feels more comfortable that way and i am sure there might be track riders covering their brakes but sure not while leaning and you lean most of your time there.

but on the streets, all brakes have to be covered or lets say all hands battlestations. and if someone is not doing that especially in a country with different dynamics like Thailand where things happen fast and unexpected unlike old blighty or slow Europe and USA.

Moreover, bikes are not the same now, they are faster too.

So I was correct and gweiloman and I were just not communicating properly?

naturally you have to cover the brake for a second maybe before braking.

[andreandre]

It looks to me that he did answer your question. You're on a track to go as fast as you possibly can, not to brake as fast as you possibly can. Yes your scenario of someone crashing in front of you is a bit of a conundrum but it likely rarely happens. Perhaps he'll lose a split second? well shit happens sometimes. Anyway according to some schools of thought in some countries, one shouldn't cover the front brake ever. (though I do in Bangkok traffic)

This covering the brakes or not, on race days or not has become lost in a maze of varying opinions....as i said earlier, it appears to be from different schools of thought in different parts of the world...it is what it is..some do, some do not..As i said i do it and have done all my riding life..it is a non event, i don't even think about it..an automatic action, as is E braking practice and on the rare occassion when it is real [maybe twice] it was a total reflex action by me...

The whole point that i have tried to make here is this; we are talking about ""track-days"" only ...ie going to a race track to allow yourself to ride [ in some peoples case at least] above your usual limit with no cops and a relatively safe environment...you are there to hone your skills so you can be a better road rider..Yes? ..So you ride your bike to the track, as i would, doing all the ride safe normalities including covering your brakes...You get onto the track and off you go, and just because you are on a track, you are told to suddenly change to non brake covering mode?? I definitely wouldn't, and probably couldn't because it is a long established auto reflex part of my riding skill and i would be totally out of my comfort zone [unnecessarily .}..

And i can agree,you certainly may not have to cover on track -days because you do have known braking points etc,etc.but why change your well learnt methods.?.... it is definitely no disadvantage to be covering......not having full control and /or accidently panicing and hitting the brakes/clutch whatever is non sense IMO...just shows a lack of experience..These scenarios are just as likely to happen on road when pushing hard..

Finish your track -day and head off home...probably tired and possibly still in ''race-day mode'...Now you are back on road and probably riding faster than usual..now rethink and go back to full brake coverage...not so easy. That E braking scenario will come out of the blue and you are not ready for it.....

For something at the top of my list in survival practices E braking is the one that can be practiced and practiced and have you prepared automatically should the moment happen.I don't see the need or any valid reason to try and change a method that is so vital and so automatic for me just because i'm doing a track-day....Track -day riding method/styles should be no different to full-on hard road riding IMO..and i've done a hell of a lot of both.

Edited February 19, 2015 by andreandre

[seedy]

Totally agree that it must be an automatic response.

Your body needs to be on auto-pilot for the correct response. You will not have time to think. If you have to think, the accident has already happened.

Lots of time to think in the hospital - if you survive.

[ll2]

It looks to me that he did answer your question. You're on a track to go as fast as you possibly can, not to brake as fast as you possibly can. Yes your scenario of someone crashing in front of you is a bit of a conundrum but it likely rarely happens. Perhaps he'll lose a split second? well shit happens sometimes. Anyway according to some schools of thought in some countries, one shouldn't cover the front brake ever. (though I do in Bangkok traffic)

This covering the brakes or not, on race days or not has become lost in a maze of varying opinions....as i said earlier, it appears to be from different schools of thought in different parts of the world...it is what it is..some do, some do not..As i said i do it and have done all my riding life..it is a non event, i don't even think about it..an automatic action, as is E braking practice and on the rare occassion when it is real [maybe twice] it was a total reflex action by me...

The whole point that i have tried to make here is this; we are talking about ""track-days"" only ...ie going to a race track to allow yourself to ride [ in some peoples case at least] above your usual limit with no cops and a relatively safe environment...you are there to hone your skills so you can be a better road rider..Yes? ..So you ride your bike to the track, as i would, doing all the ride safe normalities including covering your brakes...You get onto the track and off you go, and just because you are on a track, you are told to suddenly change to non brake covering mode?? I definitely wouldn't, and probably couldn't because it is a long established auto reflex part of my riding skill and i would be totally out of my comfort zone [unnecessarily .}..

And i can agree,you certainly may not have to cover on track -days because you do have known braking points etc,etc.but why change your well learnt methods.?.... it is definitely no disadvantage to be covering......not having full control and /or accidently panicing and hitting the brakes/clutch whatever is non sense IMO...just shows a lack of experience..These scenarios are just as likely to happen on road when pushing hard..

Finish your track -day and head off home...probably tired and possibly still in ''race-day mode'...Now you are back on road and probably riding faster than usual..now rethink and go back to full brake coverage...not so easy. That E braking scenario will come out of the blue and you are not ready for it.....

For something at the top of my list in survival practices E braking is the one that can be practiced and practiced and have you prepared automatically should the moment happen.I don't see the need or any valid reason to try and change a method that is so vital and so automatic for me just because i'm doing a track-day....Track -day riding method/styles should be no different to full-on hard road riding IMO..and i've done a hell of a lot of both.

understand you and we say the same thing. covering the bakes is advantageous on the roads actually a matter of life and death.

but for track, different riders, different styles.

i feel very comfortable by covering my brakes on the roads but also i feel comfortable and feel like at full control of my bike when i dont cover my brakes on the track.

[papa al]

Anyone know where I can buy some of those emergency brake covers?

Anything for safety.

Prefer red.

[Gweiloman]

Anyone know where I can buy some of those emergency brake covers?

Anything for safety.

Prefer red.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/e-brake-cover

[papa al]

Thanks gman, but those are for cars.

Looking for cbr150 compatible.

If those keep work in keeping me safe, I'll need some for my Yamahas too.

[papa al]

Carol Jadzia, on 18 Feb 2015 - 23:40, said:

If you feel you are such an amazing rider you are beyond reproach then good for you. Obviously impressed Buddha in a previous life,

so he gave you as a gift to the world of motorcycling in this one.

My son is such a person, born to ride, in the blood. Would not listen to me. Sailed through his first full licence tests with only minors. Hard to say "you should have listened" when he did not fail.

1st thing that brought his feet back to the ground was getting side swiped by a car that run a red light.

Now he has been hit in a different way. Got a speeding ticket. More expensive bike insurance in the future.

Clipped his wings a little now. Least he is still ok.

I was taught to be an instructor, to a recognised training syllabus as part of a Government Training Scheme in the late 80's.

I then spent the best part of the next 25 years training people. Up to 2 a day, 7 days a week.

Basic control skills that have been worked through and practiced thousands of times.

Millions of pounds spent developing a standard of best practice.

Basic to advanced control skills recognised around the world.

But some idiot keyboard biker on a motorcycle forum who thinks they are an expert wants to try and tell me that it's better to cover the brake when riding and worry about what gear your in while not killing someone in an emergency stop. What really?

Sorry, below my pay grade. Come back with the serious questions.

One question worth answering. Where did I get the information about fingers? Well try personal experience, watching my father get hit by a car. The British Police force advice. Also various schools of motorcycle training offer it as recognised fact as we tend to see it a lot. After all this is what we do for a living. We are not just playing at it during weekends.

You want facts? Have a look at these.

http://www.georgeins...-gear-study.pdf

Carol: something is wrong with my computer...the part where he claims beyond reproach isn't coming up on my set.

And your son. If only he did't cover his brakes that sideswipe, other wreck, and speeding ticket wouldn't have happened.

Carol, are you seriously believing your attached article(s) substantiate(s) any of the iffy dogma you espouse?

Wow.

[papa al]

Post 45:

"It is also common for people to loose or seriously injure the fingers that are left behind the levers. As the lever is forced in it traps and damages whats between it and the grip.

This is a very common motorcycle injury. Very hard to ride with a broken finger after what might have been a simple dropped bike.

I have seen this happen many times. But that's bikers for you. never learn "

I'm retarded retired physiotherapist.

I participate in therapy forums.

Unable to come up with instances of this type of injury.

Exactly how many times have you seen this CJ?

[hungry for actual data]

Okay Carol.

Your dad got his fingers smashed between the lever and handle. Sorry.

That's one. You mentioned 'many.'

How many other times have you actually seen this type of trauma.

7? 35? I'm fascinated.

I might write a paper for a professional journal.

Maybe the British Jnl for Occupational Therapy, or a hand therapy journal.

{Don't worry, I'll name you in the credits.}

Any contact info for your colleagues would help in compiling data.

PM me with that if you like.

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 19, 2015 by papa al

[andreandre]

I am not the best rider on this board...but isn't trail braking a good way to make sure you go faster?

My understanding about trail braking is to set the bike down on the rear suspension before corner entry. Pioneered by Fast Freddie Spencer if memory serves - he was also the first guy to 'Square' corners to increase exit speed.

Also acts to stabilize the bike I have been told.

@ dave...trail braking can help reduce your time through a particular corner [if done right] so yes it can make you faster...... @seedy...not so much about the rear end,. not directly anyway.

I will try to explain as best i can..this is another skill that i have done for years and years and not known the ''tech expression "for it....[trail braking]

As you approach a corner and braking as hard as you need, instead of taking off front brake you start slightly only reducing pressure and as you lean more into it you slowly reduce more and more..until apex and as you release the brake fully you start to feed in power...smooth ,one motion and no time between....By doing this, because the bike is squatting down to front after initial braking before corner and you keep some pressure on the front end won't come up and you have these benefits ;...you have compressed the front tyre so keep the larger contact patch, you have also slightly reduced both rake and trail which gives reduced turning radius and so quicker steering and faster through the corner.

Not a skill for a 'noobie'' to learn IMO but one that a competent rider can gradually develope as his riding/ braking skills increase.[ its hard for a 'noobie'' to even dream of front braking in a corner]..once you have this skill, it becomes just another one that is executed automatically on track and on road...its critical all braking applications should be light and smooth but firm when needed.

Edited February 19, 2015 by andreandre

[dave_boo]

@ andreandre

Yeah, we're straying way off the noob questions here. Think we actually took a hard left away from it like 4 pages back.

And for all those who complain about no rules in city riding in Thailand...there are some. And just because you ride a big bike you are not important. In fact, we're 2 steps up from soi dogs. Perhaps not even there. Easy rules to remember. Bigger vehicles have right of way unless they're expensive imports...and even then.. The lines and signs and lights are guidelines. If it helps save the environment by driving/riding against traffic to shave 5 minutes off (yeah, I'm laughing as I write that justification), than do it. Nature abhors a vacuum, fill available space. You are responsible for yourself and not hitting the person in front of you. A right turn signal when a vehicle is parked alongside the road is an acceptable substitute for 4-ways. Flashing high beams can either be a yield or 'stay the hell out of my way'; use approaching speed as well as length of flash to determine which. Cutting across all lanes from a side soi to hit a u-turn will happen. Even more frequently if the vehicle is big or expensive. Kids, as they are everywhere, are stupid and do stupid things. Here they get on scooters that have the exhausts gutted and are easier to spot/hear rather than in a 1+ tonne vehicle that they do in other countries. Oil floats on water; after a rain expect all the crap to surface and wreak havoc on your traction. Zebra stripes (crosswalks) are not to be yielded to unless there's a light (like on Ram Intra).

[andreandre]

@ andreandre

Yeah, we're straying way off the noob questions here. Think we actually took a hard left away from it like 4 pages back.

And for all those who complain about no rules in city riding in Thailand...there are some. And just because you ride a big bike you are not important. In fact, we're 2 steps up from soi dogs. Perhaps not even there. Easy rules to remember. Bigger vehicles have right of way unless they're expensive imports...and even then.. The lines and signs and lights are guidelines. If it helps save the environment by driving/riding against traffic to shave 5 minutes off (yeah, I'm laughing as I write that justification), than do it. Nature abhors a vacuum, fill available space. You are responsible for yourself and not hitting the person in front of you. A right turn signal when a vehicle is parked alongside the road is an acceptable substitute for 4-ways. Flashing high beams can either be a yield or 'stay the hell out of my way'; use approaching speed as well as length of flash to determine which. Cutting across all lanes from a side soi to hit a u-turn will happen. Even more frequently if the vehicle is big or expensive. Kids, as they are everywhere, are stupid and do stupid things. Here they get on scooters that have the exhausts gutted and are easier to spot/hear rather than in a 1+ tonne vehicle that they do in other countries. Oil floats on water; after a rain expect all the crap to surface and wreak havoc on your traction. Zebra stripes (crosswalks) are not to be yielded to unless there's a light (like on Ram Intra).

For sure it has gone off...that is the nature of forums very often..but this is all good info for those who can appreciate it...you asked a question and i answered it to the best of my ability....EDIT..good info is also of benefit to a ''noobie'' who doesn't want to be a 'noobie'' for ever ..learn from others experience and put it into practice over time...

Edited February 19, 2015 by andreandre

[JonnyF]

Anyone know where I can buy some of those emergency brake covers?

Anything for safety.

Prefer red.

555 Carol has an old pair going cheap from her retirement party in 1993. Never used (very dangerous)...

Luckily she doesn't miss instructing though, or she might end up spending her time trying to impress the "idiot newbs" on forums such as this one

Just kidding Carol, but if you actually backed up your points as opposed to getting increasingly aggressive and condescending when people disagree with you then it might be a good debate.

[Gweiloman]

Anyone know where I can buy some of those emergency brake covers?

Anything for safety.

Prefer red.

555 Carol has an old pair going cheap from her retirement party in 1993. Never used (very dangerous)...

Luckily she doesn't miss instructing though, or she might end up spending her time trying to impress the "idiot newbs" on forums such as this one

Just kidding Carol, but if you actually backed up your points as opposed to getting increasingly aggressive and condescending when people disagree with you then it might be a good debate.

Problem is that in spite of being a qualified instructor and having done lots of miles under her belt, some of her advice are unsafe if not downright wrong. Her only defence is that this is what good instructors teach, without taking a critical look at what is being taught or the circumstances involved.

[Carol Jadzia]

My point being that the driving circumstances here are so different to the UK that what is best / correct there may not always be best / correct here.

No. Riding abilities and human response times are the same all over the world.

It's your choice to ride dangerously close to the vehicle in front, your choice to ride in such a way as you need to cover the brakes.

[Carol Jadzia]

And why are you more likely to break your fingers in a crash with 2 fingers resting on the brake as opposed to all 4 fingers wrapped around the throttle? Please explain how this works.

No need on the track IMO. You ride the same lap time and time again and should have braking points worked out. No dogs, no taxi's, no soccer moms on cell phones etc.

I don't have access to the medical data and really don't have any reason to try and find it. Don't matter to me.

Forget it. made it up anyway. Just like to see my typing in black and white.

The reason we teach four fingers operation is because if you practice it that way then that is the way you will react in an emergency.

Police advanced training. No good having a police officer with broken fingers is there? I have already explained other reasons for using four fingers.

|They are all wrong as well.

Have fun

[BKKBike09]

My point being that the driving circumstances here are so different to the UK that what is best / correct there may not always be best / correct here.

No. Riding abilities and human response times are the same all over the world.

It's your choice to ride dangerously close to the vehicle in front, your choice to ride in such a way as you need to cover the brakes.

Reaction times are indeed the same but riding abilities are most certainly not - many riders (and car drivers) in Thailand, scooter or bike, local or foreign, have never had any formal instruction before getting on the road because it's not a legal requirement here.

I would never advocate "riding dangerously close to the vehicle in front" - you should ALWAYS try to have an escape route - but my point was that riding in Bangkok is, I firmly believe, inherently far more dangerous than riding in say London or Bristol. So yes, it is my choice to cover the front brake (not the rear) when I ride in Bangkok, but I feel it is a choice as much forced upon me by local driving habits and road conditions as anything else.

You didn't comment on my question regarding effect of covering front brake on stopping distance. Not to worry. One thing I will say for you Carol is that you deserve some respect for posting on a forum in what seems to be your real name.

Safe riding, however you do it.

[BKKBike09]

Zebra stripes (crosswalks) are not to be yielded to unless there's a light (like on Ram Intra).

Actually seems to me that in the last couple of years some road users do now slow or stop for pedestrians on a zebra crossing, whether with controlling lights or not. It was much safer as a rider when no-one stopped. Now when the car next to you slows you have to decide whether to slow as well, and risk getting rear ended by the speeding bus that's moved to overtake the slowing car, or speed up and possibly tangle with the folk on the crossing … Roll on the day when 100% of road users stop 100% of the time for a zebra crossing

[dave_boo]

Zebra stripes (crosswalks) are not to be yielded to unless there's a light (like on Ram Intra).

Actually seems to me that in the last couple of years some road users do now slow or stop for pedestrians on a zebra crossing, whether with controlling lights or not. It was much safer as a rider when no-one stopped. Now when the car next to you slows you have to decide whether to slow as well, and risk getting rear ended by the speeding bus that's moved to overtake the slowing car, or speed up and possibly tangle with the folk on the crossing … Roll on the day when 100% of road users stop 100% of the time for a zebra crossing

As well as schools getting proper busses that everyone has to stop for.

I've noticed over recent years also that people are making way for the "ambulances"...so it's not all bad.

[Gweiloman]

My point being that the driving circumstances here are so different to the UK that what is best / correct there may not always be best / correct here.

No. Riding abilities and human response times are the same all over the world.

It's your choice to ride dangerously close to the vehicle in front, your choice to ride in such a way as you need to cover the brakes.

Carol,

I commend your efforts to make riding safer in Thailand and sharing your ideas with other riders on this and other forums. No one disputes that riding (and driving) in Thailand is inherently unsafe (compared to a lot of other Western countries) and motorcyclists, by it's very nature, are much more vulnerable.

I respect and admire also that you are a qualified instructor and as such, are privy to a lot more knowledge about safety and riding safely compared to the average rider.

However, you also mentioned that you had been taken out quite a few times by cars turning in on you, when filtering through heavy traffic etc etc. Based on your post, you imply that you do not ride dangerously close to the vehicle in front yet did not manage to stop in time to avoid the accidents you mentioned in other posts. Did you not consider that a few of these accidents could have been avoided if you had been say, covering your brakes?

Those who are not used to riding in Thailand are shocked at some of the common practices of other motorists here - cars and bikes and pedestrians darting out from in between stopped cars, vehicles coming to you at the wrong side of the road, buses stopping on the extreme left lane in order to make a U turn, Wave and Click riders who cut from the left land to make a right turn, buses that cut across 3 lanes in the space of 20 metres from the right to pick up a passenger on the left side of the road and (my personal favourite) Thai drivers with supernatural eyesight that allows them to see around blind corners,

These are all the situations that riders in Thailand have to deal with on a day to day basis. In order to ride safe (as you so strongly advocate), covering the brakes is good advice. I do not understand why you are so adamant that this is a no no. I would honestly like to know your thoughts about this particular practice. The "loss" of control (by having two fingers covering the brakes and the thumb and remaining two fingers on the grip) as compared to having all four fingers on the grip is absolutely minimal, given city riding conditions.

One has to hone one's skills to ride appropriately, according to where they are in the world.

Once again, please do not think this is a dig at you. I am genuinely interested to discuss this particular issue.

[Gweiloman]

And why are you more likely to break your fingers in a crash with 2 fingers resting on the brake as opposed to all 4 fingers wrapped around the throttle? Please explain how this works.

No need on the track IMO. You ride the same lap time and time again and should have braking points worked out. No dogs, no taxi's, no soccer moms on cell phones etc.

I don't have access to the medical data and really don't have any reason to try and find it. Don't matter to me.

Forget it. made it up anyway. Just like to see my typing in black and white.

The reason we teach four fingers operation is because if you practice it that way then that is the way you will react in an emergency.

Police advanced training. No good having a police officer with broken fingers is there? I have already explained other reasons for using four fingers.

|They are all wrong as well.

Have fun

Could you elaborate again what is this four finger operation? Do you mean using all four fingers to pull in both the clutch and brake levers?

Thanks.

[Shurup]

I appreciate some poster's efforts but it's mostly Thai riders/drivers who really need lessons, not folks on this forum.

And I don't understand the point of getting pissed about other riders opinions, obviously we have a mixed lot here from all over the world and riding schools, manuals, rules, etc, will differ from one country to another, UK doesn't set the world's riding rules, just like US isn't a world's police (but that is another subject).

[dave_boo]

I appreciate some poster's efforts but it's mostly Thai riders/drivers who really need lessons, not folks on this forum.

And I don't understand the point of getting pissed about other riders opinions, obviously we have a mixed lot here from all over the world and riding schools, manuals, rules, etc, will differ from one country to another, UK doesn't set the world's riding rules, just like US isn't a world's police (but that is another subject).

Yeah, but we can all agree that Canada is a fashion trend setter. Just consider the Canadian Tuxedo. (and yes, this is the worst criticism I could come up with for the Canucks)

[mikebike]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

[Hili]

Funny thread here; btw nobody of you riding for years, riding instructors and wannabes ever mentioned that its actually depend where u grab/ pull the braking lever the more at the end the more braking power... Than it also depends on the setup of the brakes on a good one its easy to lock up the wheel with just 1 finger. Whatever i ride how i feel comfortable and don't listen to forum trolls.

[Gweiloman]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

Yes, sadly this discussion has not solved anything yet because the "other side" (those who don't cover their brakes) have not posted their reasons for doing so.

[andreandre]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

I agree with you and i don't think anyone has said that simply covering your brakes is anything more than just another good skill....Riding a bike competently is not at all about any one particular action/method....it is the total coming together of a multitude of actions and reactions especially in a E situation where you need everything of benefit, no matter how small to be on your side...

Last sentence in the link you provided says it all; . "Given the distance saved, using two fingered braking might not just save you from a crash, it could save your life."

[mikebike]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

I agree with you and i don't think anyone has said that simply covering your brakes is anything more than just another good skill....Riding a bike competently is not at all about any one particular action/method....it is the total coming together of a multitude of actions and reactions especially in a E situation where you need everything of benefit, no matter how small to be on your side...

Last sentence in the link you provided says it all; . "Given the distance saved, using two fingered braking might not just save you from a crash, it could save your life."

Yes, it could... but my point was unless you get the other 95% right that last 5% is meaningless. Working hard(er) on the 95% seems, to me, more prudent than focusing on the 5%.

[andreandre]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

I agree with you and i don't think anyone has said that simply covering your brakes is anything more than just another good skill....Riding a bike competently is not at all about any one particular action/method....it is the total coming together of a multitude of actions and reactions especially in a E situation where you need everything of benefit, no matter how small to be on your side...

Last sentence in the link you provided says it all; . "Given the distance saved, using two fingered braking might not just save you from a crash, it could save your life."

Yes, it could... but my point was unless you get the other 95% right that last 5% is meaningless. Working hard(er) on the 95% seems, to me, more prudent than focusing on the 5%.

And i agreed with your point...no one has said anything to the contrary...it was just in the link that you provided.

Edited February 21, 2015 by andreandre

[Gweiloman]

Wow, the discussion which solves nothing!!

Basically covering your brakes gives you a 5% bonus in stopping distance. At 100kmph that's 4.16 metres. That may well help as long as you are doing everything else 100% correct... If you can identify an emergency situation 10% faster than another rider you will stop 5% faster than them even if they are covering their brakes. There are so many complex factors that come together to formulate the safety equation. http://therideadvice.com/two-fingered-motorcycle-braking-save-life/

Riding in your comfort zone, being fully engaged in your riding, being fully aware of your surroundings, being confident in your ability to react to emergencies are all more important than the pedantic discussion of whether or not to cover your brakes.

I agree with you and i don't think anyone has said that simply covering your brakes is anything more than just another good skill....Riding a bike competently is not at all about any one particular action/method....it is the total coming together of a multitude of actions and reactions especially in a E situation where you need everything of benefit, no matter how small to be on your side...

Last sentence in the link you provided says it all; . "Given the distance saved, using two fingered braking might not just save you from a crash, it could save your life."

Yes, it could... but my point was unless you get the other 95% right that last 5% is meaningless. Working hard(er) on the 95% seems, to me, more prudent than focusing on the 5%.

Except that all these things are not mutually exclusive. What I mean is that yes, we must continue to scan and identify potential hazards and emergency situations, as soon as possible. At the same time, we should also ensure that we are covering the brakes, especially if we identify a potential hazard coming up.

Like you said, just because we are covering the brakes does not mean that we don't need to bother with other stuff. All the safety techniques / processes are all just part of riding safely.