Should I go all in on learning to read, or continue with verbal only?

[Jungle Jim]

I can only say that when I came to Thailand, there were no, signs. I was trained to speak and not to read. but after awhile you need the reading. Wow. 1972 there were signs in Thai on the highways. It helps you, if you are going the wrong.way. As far as I am concerned, if you plan to live in Thailand, it is your responsibility to learn a little Thai. "I am too old. bullshit!" It is called lazy. You want to be a lazy ass? Be one. It does not take much effort to learn a little Thai.

You don,t happen to live in Chon Daen do you ? The idiot drunk foreigner i was speaking of was visiting Chon Daen with his bar girl covered in gold. Another i met said. " I am too old to learn Thai. Her job is to speak English" My hunch is another two years his bank account will be dry and he will no long have someone to translate nor be his sex slave. Then they bitch and moan how all the Thais took their money. if you can,t speak even some basic Thai you really should not be here. i can see already the Pattaya Flying Club will soon have two new members. Going down ! Enjoy your last free fall.

[Aforek]

Could also I imagine buy a phonetic dictionnary and learn, as I now know the basic grammar rules..

Because you are French, you are lucky to have very good books thai - french from Charles Degnau, sold in bookshops and free on the Internet

as for phonetics, really a very good book is " Dictionnaire phonétique thaï - français "

[connda]

Use Thai for Beginners as your bible. Give yourself a year and start learning the read. Why's this important? One word: Transliteration. There are a multitude of transliteration schemes that approximate the sound of Thai words and tones. I'm going to stress: approximate. Also, they lure you into a false sense of familaraity. You'll see 'TH" and you're going to think that sound like the "TH" like in the word 'the'. Nothing could be further from the truth: There is no "TH" sound in Thai.

When you read Thai, you know the correct sound, pronunciation, and tone of the word. When I'm forced to used transliteration, I find myself writing in the Thai word next to it so that I'm sure of how the word is pronounced.

Consider this a journey: it doesn't happen overnight. But once you're able to 'read' Thai, and by this I mean to be able to look at the word, and correctly pronounce it's sound and tonality with about 95% accuracy, you starting hitting a new plataue in your learning. Then suddenly the words start 'popping out' around you as you drive down the street. As you get familiar with the common words, you start to understand the meanings, then you start 'seeing' short sentences, and understand what your reading.

So I suggest to jump into reading with both feet.

[domdom]

Hello

Yes I had Charles Deniau books.. I gave them when I left Thailand 10 years ago, but am planning to buy them again of course

Have a nice day

[Baa_Mango]

great way to learn is to make a deck of consonants. can start 5 at a time to make it simpler

one side has the Thai character, ex

(side 1) ก (opposite side) gaaw and maybe a " ก ไก่ gaaw gaiL " * mid class consonant

if you do this with each letter of the alphabet.. you can start to build a strong foundation of consonant recognition, TONE pronunciation, and an idea of what class it belongs.

I started with the first 5 letters (5 flash cards) by going through them and memorizing them, as well as being able to write them in succesion. Once I had the first 5, i introduced the next 5 and so i was up to 10.. constantly writing them in order, and trying to nail the write pronuncation of the consonants.. nailing the correct tones of the consonants goes a long way.. ie . ก gaaw and ข khaawR

After the alphabet was down I started to familirize myself with vowels, and lastly all the tone rules.

The important part (for me.. ) was the flash cards really established the base of writing, recognizing and pronouncing the initial consonants.

Challenges included ด / ต บ / ป and ง

A key thing is to use a GOOD transliteration system while doing this.. for me it was boomsam becker's style (which is same as the great thai-language.com )

This style uses bp dt ng as sounds rather then confusing ph p b etc.. Obviously everyone will have a different style and preference but for me using a logical transliteration to learn before weaning off it was quite helpful. The Royal Thai Institute system is frustrating and not too intuitive imo. Also after seeing how complex the tone rules and vowels could be, I decided to really just break it down into sections and slowly ease into them.. by the time I put effort into knowing the tone rules I had already internalized the consonant classes and such.. so it was (at THAT point in time) effortless.

Of course everyone has their own style and preferences, but I think taking on too much at once can be overwhelming and somewhat unprogressive. Slow and steady and what not. Also a friend/partner/what have you is helpful as long as they correct you and give positive reenforcement (DONT FALL In a trap of hounding this person so much that they start just telling you everything is correct in order to shut you up.. helps to have a few different friends or sources to practice with.)

Anyways - hope this may make sense to anyone who is thinking about it.. my favorite thing about learning to read was the immediate realization of being able to recognize letters, and words, cause after all.. they are EVERYWHERE in Thailand, which is what baffles me when some people just refuse to learn or show interest.. riding the BTS, or bus, or eating at a food stall.. you are faced with signage and language everyday! Thai is so fun !!!

sorry - just a footnote, I didn't really read the great replies to this thread before I typed this ramble - great post by

connda and others

[1FinickyOne]

I think the heart of your question is time/efficiency - where will your time be best spent might depend somewhat on your needs. My needs at first were to be conversational and so I learned words, then sentences, constantly trying to use them and be sure I was being understood… I learned the alphabet as some of hte letters in particular will give you "those sounds" and an awareness of them… when it is the "Bp" rather than "B" - and when I am out, I can get some value out of reading signs too but most of my efforts have been, and still are, spent in knowing words and making sentences. I have never had a need to write Thai, though I can easily write out the letters.

I find learning from books not to be a good method for me - especially the ones with their own pronounciation guides [becker] that would take me days to learn and remember. The double upside down "e" etc etc.. who can keep that stuff in their heads and why not learn actual words instead.

All that said - find what works for your needs and what works best...

[Eneukman]

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Not being pretentious (or contentious!) I can really never understand why many long-term Expats in Thailand show little or no interest in learning to at least READ the language (writing, I think, is somewhat less important but still very useful).

You miss SO much by not being able to read - simple things like reading a Menu, Street signs, Shop signs - even the little witticisms scrawled on the back of pickups and trucks - all the way down to more important things like reading official documents, Email enquiries from Customers etc. etc..

To me it would seem like being half-blind in the Country.

Certainly it can seem a daunting challenge, a totally different alphabet being the most obvious, however it's not nearly as difficult as it first appears - I actually taught myself to read Thai when I first came here, never took a single lesson because my first job involved traveling up-country at least 2 weeks per month therefore I simply had no time for formal lessons, so I used the time on the road; if I knew that the next town was, say, Lopburi (VERY few road signs in English back then) so I would look at the Thai sign and work out the Thai letters and match them with "Lopburi" for example; good intellectual exercise to stave off boredom.

Actually this system worked great until I came back to Bangkok and tried to morph "Bangkok" in English to " กรุงเทพมหานคร "!

Patrick

Fully agree that learning to read is essential. When out with my girlfriend and her family, we regularly go to restaurants where the menu is in Thai only so it is a great hep in being able to read the menu, even though I may not know exactly what each item is.

I started to read with a Linguaphone course which also taught me the basics of writing the script. Because several words all run together, my reading pace is painfully slow though I've just started taking Thai lessons again. My tutor has had to take 3 weeks off as he has been employed to act as a translator but the lessons should start again next week. My writing is even slower but I am less concerned about that than being able to speak and read the language,

I can read and write slowly - but oh so slowly I feel. It's those long thai sentences with all the words run together - no gaps - that defeat me. I tell friends I can't really read Thai - I can only decode it. If anyone knows of a way to help make Thai words leap off the page the way words in our own languages do, I'd be glad to hear of it.

The Linguaphone course that I used to start learning Thai suggested using a fine pencil to make vertical strokes between the words as you read (=decode) them. Is that still the best thing to do?

It sounds like a good idea; if it works for you, I see no reason to change. As you become more proficient you can maybe reduce the number of pencil lines you need to make.

Alan

[Derek M]

Not a bad exercize in learning to read and write is how or where to locate the letters on Thai keyboard - will help you type quicker!

[lostmebike]

Speaking is one thing (a must for communication) but when you`re travelling alone, it`s great to be able to read the signs. Only road signs have English and not all of them do neither so I suppose it gives you greater independence.

Learning to read really opens your eyes to pronunciation. Only reading the script will give you this knowledge.

Like one poster said, it`s the place we have chosen to stay, why not make the effort? It can only make life easier.

Good luck with your endevours.

[Sydebolle]

Learn definitely both; otherwise you're unable to resort to vocabulary aids to start with. In addition it helps if you can actually read what they say; easier to memorise specially under the preamble of Thais being very, very sloppy with their own language. Last not least, if there's anything you do not understand you can write it down (get it spelled) and look it up later - Nuff said!

[dao16]

I would do both at the same time. I find it is easier to remember vocabulary when I have a visual element (the written word) to back up the sound of the word.

[orpheus454]

For example, there are something like 32 different words, with very different meanings, that could all be romanized as 'sai'.

32? Really. I could only think of 19 (ซ้าย, ไซ, ไซ้, ไซซ์, ไซด์,ไซต์, ไซท์, ไซน์, ไซร้, ทราย, ไทร, สาย, ส่าย, ใส, ใส่, ไส, ไส้, ไสย, ไสร้). Which ones am I missing?

ศรัย (ใส) น. ที่พักพิง (พจนานุกรม ฉบับเฉลิมพระเกียรติ พ.ศ. 2530)

I took your challenge and opened that dic for probably the first time in 10 years.

[gigman]

I did opposite and now I need a lot of verbal.

I can read but not much understand meaning.

I would have the same feeling to speak but not be able to read simple sign on the shops or even phone bill what I am paying for......

At least I can use translator to decode writing.....

To read it is very easy even after 1-2 months in the class and you will be a champion in the class with your verbal knowledge.

[Khaotee]

Mary Haas

I learned to read based on a book called "The Thai Writing System" by Mary R. Haas. If you can get a copy I highly recommend it for learning the alphabet and getting a feel for what letters can go together and how the sounds cnange when the letter comes at the beginning or end of a syllable. Then with another book called "Thai Reader" by Mary R. Haas you can practice using that knowledge to both learn to read an add to your vocabulary. Trouble is both books were published in about 1950. Ms Haas was a linguist who had been studying Navajo and was tapped by the War Department to study Thai for the Special Languages Program. She did a brilliant job and later returned to the States and taught Thai, I believe a Stanford.

Comment

Mary Haas was a professor at UC Berkeley (Stanford is about 35 miles south of San Francisco, Berekey is across the Bay). I was in one of her classes on American Indian languages, long ago. Small detail, just for the record. She knew Bejamin Lee Whorf and Edward Sapir personally. Oh, the stories she could tell!

[horsewell]

It's better to go "all in" as each of the four communication skills: listening, reading, writing and speaking. These are all skills that will help you communicate with native speakers to the highest levels. If you need to have a chat about your relationship, business, partner, it will be hard enough in their native language let alone trying to communicate in yours. It may take a while to pick up the first parts of reading and writing but after you get the basics down you will just start absorbing new vocabulary and grammar as you go, as you need them.

I found out just recently that there is a national test for foreigners who want, or need, to have their Thai language skills certified. It's held in Bangkok in November. If anyone is interested I will look up and post the details. There is one test for everyone and it's set out to give the person a level from beginner to owner of the language.

[Jungle Jim]

So sad seeing so many foreigners settle here both men and women that make no effort to speak or understand Thai in any way. They bitch and moan how horrible it is here, how expensive everything is, how lonely they are, how the Thais are constantly ripping them off, walking around with a constant scowl, treat the Thais like crap. And make zero effort learning about anything that goes on around them. The men have bar girls to translate for them and wonder why shortly after they are penniless. If you not willing to learn the language you really have no one to blame but yourself and your best option is to go back where you came from. Stop blaming the Thais for all your problems the problem is YOU.

[csabo]

Don't waste your precious learning time with phonetics. Imagine you study Thai for years phonetically and speak perfect and can understand what is being said also, then you and your GF go to a Thai only restaurant and she has to read the menu to you like you are a child. After all those years of learning you are still illiterate?? DONT LEARN PHONETICS. I learned to read Thai in a week. The vocabulary is what takes time.